What exactly is the law when the light won't turn green?

[MrCjolsen]

Do I have to dismount, walk over to the crosswalk and press the button (assuming that there is a button to press)?

Can I just go when there are no cars coming?

[bkrownd]

Its legal to proceed with due caution if the light is red longer than any reasonable person would expect if its operating properly. OTOH, if crossing is never safe then you have to find a detour. I'm not sure of the details, but it isn't an uncommon situation. There's a lot of room to hang yourself.

[superwombat]

Turn right, u-turn, turn right again. Beats the camera. :)

[Shaman]

You might have to become a pedestrian and hike the bike across the street.
If your laws are like they are in Oregon, pedestrians have total right-of-way.
Several police stings have been based on this policy!

[bkrownd]

You might have to become a pedestrian and hike the bike across the street.
If your laws are like they are in Oregon, pedestrians have total right-of-way.
Several police stings have been based on this policy!

Those laws are very misguided, IMO. In Massachusetts they've created lazy pedestrians who don't look before crossing the street and expect the world to come to a stop for them. The town centers are a mess with the traffic backing up everwhere to wait for every pedestrian that comes along. Stupid, stupid, stupid...

[Da Tinker]

In some states, after three cycles (or a resonable time, depending on the law), you may declare the light to be malfuntioning, and treat it as a stop sign.

[va_cyclist]

Run it and hope for the best.

[CommuterRun]

Not sure what the law is in California. In Florida just treat it, and report it, as a malfunctioning light.

[-=£em in Pa=-]

Mr. Jolson...you are fixie rider now.
Lights dont apply to outlaws. They stick
so we can run them.



:D

[jwc]

I asked a DMV officer a simlar question last year. His answer was the same as one above. Get off the bike and walk it through. He did add that, no one is going to give you a ticket for it, unless you disregard traffic or go through it above the speed limit. He also said, tell the officer you don't have your driver's license on you. Without that, the paper work isn't worth the effort.

[JRA]

The law is pretty vague and subject to interpretation. If the signal is malfunctioning, it should be legal to proceed with caution (treat the signal as a stop sign). That's what I do if my bike won't actuate a signal.

I've had some success actuating signals by riding my bike directly over the crack in the pavement where the detector is buried.

At one intersection I've been riding through for years, I often go through on red because there's no practical way for me to actuate the signal. It's kind of an interesting situation (at least to me). There's a bike lane to the left of a right turn only lane, then a straight thru lane, then a left turn only lane (this is an intersection where there are a lot of left turns). There are sensors in the straight and left only lanes, and they operate independently. If there's no car in the straight-thru lane, then the signal skips the green light phase although it still has a left turn phase. What I do is go during the left-turn only phase. The only conflict would be left-turning traffic coming toward me, which I can easily see.

A funny thing happened the other day. I was waiting in the bike lane with a couple of cars in the left-turn lane. A lady in the left-turn lane apparently changed her mind and tried to pull into the straight-thru lane. She did such a lousy job of changing lanes that I knew she wouldn't actuate the signal. Several cars lined up behind her.

Well, anyway. When the left arrow came on, I went, leaving the line of cars behind. I don't know how long it took those cars to get through that intersection (I was long gone) but they could sit there all day like that and they'd never get a green light. Even cars coming the opposite direction and going straight wouldn't help them because the green lights for each direction are actuated independently.

[genec]

Do I have to dismount, walk over to the crosswalk and press the button (assuming that there is a button to press)?

Can I just go when there are no cars coming?

Not very practical when one is in the left turn lane... walking over to push the button that is.

I don't know if there is a specific law dealing with this, but like my situation yesterday, I waited an entire light cycle and then went when it was safe.

[Shaman]

Larger metropolis cops love giving tickets to bikes for running or jumping lights.
Most suburban and rural areas just shine it on.

Don't mess with Portland, OR cops! Bikes are treated like cars within PDX proper.

[CB HI]

It is not vague at all. What happens in a power outage? The law in every state I know of says you treat the intersection as a 4 way stop unless otherwise directed by a police/traffic control officer.

[genec]

Larger metropolis cops love giving tickets to bikes for running or jumping lights.
Most suburban and rural areas just shine it on.

Don't mess with Portland, OR cops! Bikes are treated like cars within PDX proper.

And if a light never changes for a cyclist... what the cyclist dies waiting? ;)

[Shaman]

And if a light never changes for a cyclist... what the cyclist dies waiting? ;)
The Cyclist's estate will be sent an ambulance bill ;)

[scottmorrison99]

In California, if the light doesn't change after a reasonable time, I've heard 3 minutes but cannot confirm it, It is considered a malfunctioning signal and should be treated as a stop sign. Just make sure to contact the local traffic authority to report the defective light. That way maybe it will be adjusted and work for you next time.

[donnamb]

It there a "bicycle lawyer" where you live? These are attorneys/firms that take a lot of bicycle personal injury cases, ticket appeals, etc. if your state has an active pro-bicycle political lobby, these lawyers are often involved, especially if they are cyclists themselves. They tend to be the most knowledgable about the traffic laws where you live and how they can be interpreted.

Our local "bicycle law firm" is very open to answering questions via telephone or email and I find they know the laws better than a lot of the police officers do.

[LCI_Brian]

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21800.htm

21800 (d) (1) The driver of any vehicle approaching an intersection which has official traffic control signals that are inoperative shall stop at the intersection, and may proceed with caution when it is safe to do so. This subparagraph shall apply to traffic control signals that become inoperative because of battery failure.

A few notes:
1. 21200 says that cyclists have the rights and duties of drivers of vehicles, so 21800 is applicable to cyclists.
2. "Inoperative" does not mean "defective".
3. This applies to signals that become inoperative due to power failure, but does not ONLY apply to such signals.

[Roody]

I don't know what the law is in your state. Well I have to admit that I don't know what the law is in my state either. :o

I wait a while, if it doesn't change I ride through. Funny though, usually the light changes while I'm riding through or just after. Maybe I'm too impatient.

[LilSprocket]

I've really enjoyed this thread, thanks for all the info and chuckles
:)

[sbhikes]

G for green, G for Go
R for red, R for Run it!

[sauerwald]

For those signals which have the coils in the road to sense cars, they work by magnetic induction, assuming you have conductive rims on your wheels (carbon fibre rims wont work), lay you bike on it's side, either inside the loop, or near one of the corners, and you will trip the detector.

[Prime Directive]

^Isn't it the steel in the frame that matters?

[LCI_Brian]

The strength of the field drops off as a function of the square of the distance from the pavement, so the rims are the best as they are the closest metal to the ground.

[sloweredk300e]

I would have to fit a ticket for "running" a signal light. There is no way the sensors in the ground will pickup the presence of a cyclist. When they mandate and design them to do this, a ticket could possibly be justifible... you must also get past the fact that in some areas it is used as a local cash cow. In Dorville, GA DUIs are the cow of choice...

[Roody]

Actually bikes do trip a lot of these things, but of course not all of them. The best place to stop seems to be just right of the pavement cut that indicates their placement, usually near the white stop line, or parallel with the sign that says "Stop here on red." If theres a car behind you, pull up as far as you can, then ask the driver to pull up where the car will trigger it. You can also ride up on the sidewalk and push the button for pedestrians, then cross in the crosswalk or back in the street as you prefer.

Of course, most of the time it's easier just to run the light, unless cross traffic is real heavy. If you get a ticket (very unlikely) just be a grownup and pay it.

[JDRoss]

In Eugene, OR the city issued bicycling brochure suggests using your bike to trip the sensor. Supposedly the corners of the squares cut into the ground are the most sensitive sections.

They also suggest leaning your bike low to bring more metal towards the sensor.....

[DieselDan]

Something to consider: if there is nobody else at the intersection to trip the light, chances are there isn't a cop around to write the ticket.

One of my riding partners did successfully argue a red light violation, on his bike, with the defective signal defense. Another one tried the Chewbacca defense and got his fine doubled.

[bmclaughlin807]

For those signals which have the coils in the road to sense cars, they work by magnetic induction, assuming you have conductive rims on your wheels (carbon fibre rims wont work), lay you bike on it's side, either inside the loop, or near one of the corners, and you will trip the detector.

And what do you do when the idiot motorist on the cell phone runs over your bike while you've got it lying on its side?

This seems:
a) DUMB. You lose a lot of visibility while you're bending over with your bike, and it's lying on its side. Take that guy coming from your right, making a left turn onto the road you're on, and cuts the corner short? (Yeah, I've NEVER seen that happen, either)
b) RIDICULOUS.... You don't see motorists having to stop, get out of their car and run over to press the crosswalk button, do you?

The sensors SHOULD trip from the metal in your rims. If you have a carbon bike, I've heard you can attach a rare-earth magnet under the bottom bracket that will trip the sensors. If they don't detect you, they're defective, and should be adjusted. (90% of the lights I pass through will detect my bike)

[SingingSabre]

In some states, after three cycles (or a resonable time, depending on the law), you may declare the light to be malfuntioning, and treat it as a stop sign.

+1. In AZ, it's 3 cycles.

[bike2math]

I asked a DMV officer a simlar question last year. He also said, tell the officer you don't have your driver's license on you. Without that, the paper work isn't worth the effort.

I think, in this country today, that is bad advice. Not saying it's right, just saying that's the way it is.

[DieselDan]

Many of us have aluminum rims that won't set off a magnetic switch. Couple that with an aluminum frame, you're stuck.

[joejack951]

Many of us have aluminum rims that won't set off a magnetic switch. Couple that with an aluminum frame, you're stuck.

Any metal will do. My aluminum bikes trip most sensors out there. There are a few that can be finicky on my way to work which I need to call about (I was finally emailed the phone numbers of the people I need to contact about this).

[CentPARider]

Do I have to dismount, walk over to the crosswalk and press the button (assuming that there is a button to press)?

Can I just go when there are no cars coming?

PA's:

WHEN TRAFFIC LIGHTS DON'T TURN

Always stop and wait for red lights. You not only ensure your safety, but also increase respect for cyclists as law-abiding road users.

But some traffic lights don’t turn green until they receive a signal from a metal detector buried in the pavement. A bicycle doesn’t have enough metal to make many of them work.

Recognize the detector by a square or octagonal pattern of thin lines in the pavement, where slots were cut for the detecting wires. The detector is most sensitive if you ride along one of the wires.

If your bike doesn’t trip the detector, you have to wait for a car to do it, or else you have to go through the red light. Going through the red isn’t against the law, because the light is defective. Refer to Sections of Title 75 (Vehicle Code in this pamplet) pertaining to pedalcycles Section 3112.

Detectors are made that work for bicycles, at little or no additional cost. Federal design guidelines exist for these detectors. If you put enough pressure on your local and state government, bicyclists can avoid the crashes and the city can avoid the lawsuits which may follow.

Section 3112. Traffic-control signals.
(c) Inoperable or malfunctioning signal.-If a traffic-control signal is out of operation or is not functioning properly, vehicular traffic facing a:
(1) Green or yellow signal my proceed with caution as indicated on subsection(a)(1) and (2).
(2) Red or completely unlighted signal shall stop in the same manner as a stop sign, and the right to proceed shall be subject to the rules applicable after making a stop at a stop sign as provided in section 3323 (relating to stop signs and yield signs).

Comment: Standard traffic signals sometimes do not detect bicycles, You may be unable to pass through a sigmalized intersection because the green signal is never received. When faced with this problem, you may treat the signal as malfunctioning and take the fillowing steps to safely proceed though the intersection. First, determime that the signal will not detect you . Try to position the bicycle directly over the saw cuts in the pavement behind the white painted "stop bar" at the head of the lane. These cuts, which often take the shape of a elongated hexagon, contain the loop wires that detect vehicles. If no cuts are evident, you may have to guess their location. Wait for a complete cycle of the signal through all legs of the intersection. If you still believe that the signal will not detect you, treat the red signal as a stop sign and proceed through the intersection only after yeilding the right -of-way to all intersecting traffic (including pedestrians) that may be close enough to constitut a hazard during the time when you are moving across or within the intersection or junction of roadways.

If you get hit while going through a malfunctioning light (read about who is liable):

http://www.dot.state.pa.us/bike/web/road_tough.htm

[Da Tinker]

From what I've read, it's not even metal, but a conductor that often trips the field detector. A key is to place your wheels directly over the wire in the pavement. However, if the inetersection has been resurfaced, you can't see the groove anymore.

There is some stuff out on the web about using magnets to trip the sensors. One outfit sells magnets to put on the underside of motorcycles and I've heard of cyclists glueing small 'super magnets' to their shoes to trip light sensors.

[Mel_bikes]

Around here that would be a good 6-10 minutes wait at a cross street

[chipcom]

It is not vague at all. What happens in a power outage? The law in every state I know of says you treat the intersection as a 4 way stop unless otherwise directed by a police/traffic control officer.

+1 :beer:

[KnhoJ]

If it's plenty safe to cross, I check for cops as well. Anything's legal as long as you don't get caught. If it's too busy to be safe, and the cross road I'm on is as good as abandoned by all forms of helpful signal triggering traffic, then it's time to whack the crosswalk button. Of course, that's the cue for ten left looking right turners to show up the instant that the light finally changes and I'm stuck on the side!

Or like what happened a while back. One light refused to change, so after a couple of unproductive signal cycles, I walked the bike over to the crosswalk. Whacked the button, and realized that traffic had already stopped! AAAHHH! It already changed when I wasn't looking! Yellow. Red.