Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - any good data on failure rate of suicude/rotafixed hubs?

It doesn't seem like there are hoards of people out there complaining that their rotafixed cog slipped, even though many people on this forum will tell you that its dangerous. I've seen way more threads about people with stripped hubs, loose lockrings etc. As far as I can tell the rotafixing method is pretty safe and a good cheap way to start out riding fixed. Please relate your successful and unsuccessful rotafixing experiences and if rotafix failure put you in a dangerous situation. It would be nice to come up with a even a vague idea of failure rate.

Me...2000 miles with 42/15, skipping and skidding for at least 1500 of those miles, no lockring, no locktite, and no slippage to report.

At 206 pounds with camelback and tools, I rotafixed at the end of a really long hill.

The cog unscrewed itself. It took me 30 seconds to screw it back. Later on that day -riding the same gear ratio as you - I did hit 150 rpms in a long downhill without any Ill effects.

That being said, the night before the incident I was in my trainer tooling around and trying to learn to skid.

I love my front brake.

I've been depressed for the past 6 years. I'm still alive today, more or less, no thanks to this stupid effing suicide hub.

Please help me. I don't wanna live no more.

If you have brakes, what's the worst thing that can happen due to a rotafix? Will it cause a lockup?

If you have brakes, what's the worst thing that can happen due to a rotafix? Will it cause a lockup?

I doubt it. If your cog spins off, it'll just spin freely..and if your chain is derailed in the process, it is doubtful that it can get caught between the cog and spokes because the cog is loose, so I seriously doubt that a lockup can happen if the cog spins loose. If you have brakes, it seems to me that the cog spinning off would be no worse than chain derailment on a freewheel bike, which happens quite frequently and is unlikely to cause a catastrophic crash.
Has anyone really had a nasty accident due to cog coming loose or spinning off? Thats what I really want to find out? I think the term "suicide hub" is a myth.

the term "suicide hub" is neither myth nor non-myth. it simply refers to the fact that riding one is risky, and some people are very adamant that nobody ever do it.

is it dangerous? possibly, under some circumstances. other people, however, have ridden them successfully. even brakeless (red loctite and BB lockring may help).

conclusion? if you do it, weigh the risks involve, ride smart, and know what you're doing when you install it.

any good data on failure rate of suicude/rotafixed hubs?

deaths in the tens, maimings/decapitation incidents numbering in the thousands.

I heard a friend of my cousin's english teacher's daughter's boyfriend totally got ****ed by his suicide hub.

I heard sometimes they explode and kill you

the term "suicide hub" is neither myth nor non-myth. it simply refers to the fact that riding one is risky, and some people are very adamant that nobody ever do it.

Your stating that its risky as if its a fact, but you (or anyone else) haven't provided any evidence that riding a rotafixed hub adds any significant additional risk to fixed gear riding. Obviously without a brake it presents a potential risk, but I would think that anyone with a rotafixed hub would also be using a brake..that only makes sense. Moreover, that vast majority of beginners use brakes. Given that, the possability that your cog could unscrew may present an annoyance similar to chain derailment on a freewheel bike, but its not something that would necessarily cause a crash.

If there is even one case of an unscrewing cog putting causing a crash or endangering someone, I'd love to know about it. Until then, I assert that the term "suicide hub" is a misnomer that may be driving off people that would otherwise be interested in trying out riding fixed on the cheap.

Your stating that its risky as if its a fact, but you (or anyone else) haven't provided any evidence that riding a rotafixed hub adds any significant additional risk to fixed gear riding. Obviously without a brake it presents a potential risk, but I would think that anyone with a rotafixed hub would also be using a brake..that only makes sense. Moreover, that vast majority of beginners use brakes. Given that, the possability that your cog could unscrew may present an annoyance similar to chain derailment on a freewheel bike, but its not something that would necessarily cause a crash.

If there is even one case of an unscrewing cog putting causing a crash or endangering someone, I'd love to know about it. Until then, I assert that the term "suicide hub" is a misnomer that may be driving off people that would otherwise be interested in trying out riding fixed on the cheap.

it doesn't take too much intuition to say it's a risk. on the otherhand, i'm not knocking them, because you're right. using brakes--and, as i said, some healthy protections like rotafixing, bb lockring, and red loctite--reduces that risk. but there's always the chance that something bad *could* happen just due to the construction--without redundancies.

i agree that it's counterproductive to call them "suicide hubs," but--much like the conversation about brakes and brakelessness--i think it's important to talk about their use as *potentially* unsafe or undesirable, to ensure that people who decide to go for one of them can learn why, and learn how to minimize danger.

Before I spent money on a proper rear hub, I did a cheap rotafix hub to see if I liked fixed gear. I got it hand tight with my chain whip, put the wheel on the bike and away I went.

"Hmmmm? I wonder if I can trackstand?" I thought after riding about 20 feet. "Whoa! that was wierd" I thought as my cog spun backwards on the hub. I quickly applied forward torque and the thing screwed back on and I rode down the street.

"Hmmmm? I wonder if I can stop without using my brakes?" I thought after riding about 100 yards and getting up to speed. "Oh crap!" I said as my cog once again started to spin off the hub. I braked, and turned the pedal to get the cog back on, thinking that I might have found and easy way to strip threads on a hub if I ever so desired.

"Hmmmm? I better stomp on the pedal really hard this time to make the cog tight." So I positioned the pedals at 9 and 3, put my hands on both brakes and jumped on the forward pedal as hard as I could.

"Hey, I really can stop without using the brakes" I thought, after riding about 200 yards and coming to a complete stop. "Darn, I guess I can't trackstand" I thought as I never quite mustered the nerve to get my bike going in a backwards direction.

But the cog stayed put until I tried to remove it. In order to do so, I had to wrap my chain whip around it and stand on it with almost all of my 215 pounds in order to get the thing to come loose.

Later that night, I read some posts by these meanies at Bikeforums that said I couldn't make a hub like that and that I had to go out and buy a proper track hub with a lockring in order to gain acceptance into the fixed gear community.

So I did.

Before I spent money on a proper rear hub, I did a cheap rotafix hub to see if I liked fixed gear. I got it hand tight with my chain whip, put the wheel on the bike and away I went.

chainwhip and rotafix (http://204.73.203.34/fisso/eng/schpignone.htm)are two different things.

If someone who uses a suicide-hub had a failure, and it really was a true suicide-hub, then they would be dead... so nobody could possibly come back on here and claim that their suicide-hub failed because if they survived then they must not have had an authentic suicide hub...

lol

I had a lot of luck with loctite. that 5hit works... It works so well that I have a few wheels with un-removable cogs on them !!!!!!! LOL

After being unable to remove the 15t from my practice track wheel, I was forced to use the freewheel side in the true suicide fashion.. so I did not use loctite or a BB lockring...

I just rotafixed it ... so far no troubles... I suppose that IF this is a true suicide-hub setup, and that IF it ever failed, I will not be here to post about it... since of course I would be dead.

If someone who uses a suicide-hub had a failure, and it really was a true suicide-hub, then they would be dead... so nobody could possibly come back on here and claim that their suicide-hub failed because if they survived then they must not have had an authentic suicide hub...



Some guy told me that his friend read on the internet somewhere that speakng from beyond the grave is something that hipsters like to do with their ipod nanos.

chainwhip and rotafix (http://204.73.203.34/fisso/eng/schpignone.htm)are two different things.

Wait. Is a rotafix a type of setup, or an event that happens as a result of that setup? I'm confused.

I've also heard the term "bum hub" or something like that which relates poverty to bicycle componentry.

neither. rotafix is a method of tightening a cog onto a hub. some people say that you don't need a lockring if you use it, and others question its ability to stand up to repeated, sharp backpressure (as in slowing to a stop, skipping, or skidding).

rotafix'ing is something people should definetely learn to do. Its a great way to get a cog on in a jam. Probobably one of the best ways to remove a cog too, just reverse the direction of the chain rap. Just make sure that you put a thick rag or something around your BB to prevent the chain from diggin into the shell. I would be confident in putting slow back pressure on a rotafixa's cog, but you will eventually need to skid, and it won't stay on for that strong of an torque. Thats why I would never fully trust just a rotafixa'd cog.

......... Thats why I would never fully trust just a rotafixa'd cog.


That is where red loctite and a bb lockring come into play..

Just go ahead and red loctite one of those and then also red loctite the bb lockring and let it set properly...


you won't ever get that thing off again... lol at least not without a torch...

The thing about drivetrain safety is that fixed/free and brake/brakeless matter a lot. For example, chain breakage isn't a safety issue if you have at least one brake on your bike. And chain tension does not matter nearly as much if you are riding with a freewheel, where you can have your chain flapping in the breeze, as it does with fixed gear.

I personally won't ride my "suicide hub" without a front brake, but I am a wuss, and I have no desire to learn how to skid. I trust my setup though. I know plenty of people who ride them, including messengers who don't have brakes and skid to a stop 8 hours a day, 40 hours a week. Does that make me uncool? I don't care to know. Though, eventually I would like a "real" track wheel set. Atleast one with a less scary name... heh.

One guy's experience- 3,000+ miles, including about 300 fully loaded touring miles, riding up/down mountains, all on a suicide hub made with blue loctite. I skid, skip, resist, etc. I have even changed cogs a few times with no ill effects.

No problems at all. I don't weigh much however, around 145-50 pounds. Gear ratio varies- 42x18, 44x18, 44x16.

My method: blue loctite on clean hub threads, spin cog on, rotafix cog on wicked tight, spin bb lockring on, tighten bb lockring with cold chisel/hammer.

I always ride with a front brake; that's the only way.


Works for me.

spin bb lockring on, tighten bb lockring with cold chisel/hammer.

Yow! Hardcore. Lockring spanner too wussy for this application? I'd totally see myself munging up the slots that way.

Lockring spanner too wussy for this application?
Don't own one. Buy me one, and I'll use it.

For the one "real track hub" that I own, I took the wheel to the LBS and borrowed their tool to tightne the lockring.

Rotafix is a good and cheap way to convert an old bike in a fixed gear

Re-space and re-dish an old style freewheel wheelset (http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/wheels/) and rotafix a cog on is the chepest way to pedal a fixed gear.

I converted this way 2 bikes this year and they work perfect with NO locktite and NO lockring (one has front brake and the other both brakes)

Anyway I'm going to buy REAL track hubs with lockring to try brakeless riding

um, one failure is pretty much too many.
I have a rotafix no one can get off, but that doens't mean its safe.

I mean, do you wear a seatbelt? Most of the time you don't need it, but there is that one time.

god this is a stupid thread, no offense. the whole topic is stupid.

rota fix sorta works but it's tacky and dangerous. Of course that doesn't stop newbies and ****ing idiots from advocating it. Then they cite the example of some famous italian track rider. He is a ****ing track rider and thus doesn't know jack **** about stopping anymore than he knows about fixing a train.

This is a source about as valid as "my buddy, who used to be a messenger" .

HOLY ****ING ****!!!!!!!!

what kinda argument is that?

don't exceed your abilites. If you don't know why rotafixing is a bad idea, or just trust that it is, use a brake.

If you can't understand the problem you can't foresee the danger. Use a handbrake or better two until you know what you are doing and see the value of fixed-specific parts.

suicide hub is a descendent of suicide brakes, the add ons to road brakes that let you use them from the flats but also gave you the ability to pitch yourself over the bars.

um, one failure is pretty much too many.
I have a rotafix no one can get off, but that doens't mean its safe.

I mean, do you wear a seatbelt? Most of the time you don't need it, but there is that one time.

god this is a stupid thread, no offense. the whole topic is stupid.

rota fix sorta works but it's tacky and dangerous. Of course that doesn't stop newbies and ****ing idiots from advocating it. Then they cite the example of some famous italian track rider. He is a ****ing track rider and thus doesn't know jack **** about stopping anymore than he knows about fixing a train.

This is a source about as valid as "my buddy, who used to be a messenger" .

HOLY ****ING ****!!!!!!!!

what kinda argument is that?

don't exceed your abilites. If you don't know why rotafixing is a bad idea, or just trust that it is, use a brake.

If you can't understand the problem you can't foresee the danger. Use a handbrake or better two until you know what you are doing and see the value of fixed-specific parts.


You are right. Sure, something might happen to them. Or something might not. People use them, and people trust them. I trust my "suicide hub" the way I trust my boyfriend. He hasn't done anything yet to betray me, so what is the use of worrying what he "could do" or how ****ed up he "might be". You might think that is naive, but this is what works best for me (and probably others) right now. Maybe those messengers are newbies who can't afford even the $200 wheelset iro offers. ****, I can't. We are workin' on it, though. : )

Psst. The first time my boyfriend DOES do something to betray me, I am going to first, kick him in the balls, and second, kick him out the door. Just as I would do to my "suicide hub". Hah!

um, one failure is pretty much too many.
I have a rotafix no one can get off, but that doens't mean its safe.

I mean, do you wear a seatbelt? Most of the time you don't need it, but there is that one time.

god this is a stupid thread, no offense. the whole topic is stupid.

rota fix sorta works but it's tacky and dangerous. Of course that doesn't stop newbies and ****ing idiots from advocating it. Then they cite the example of some famous italian track rider. He is a ****ing track rider and thus doesn't know jack **** about stopping anymore than he knows about fixing a train.

This is a source about as valid as "my buddy, who used to be a messenger" .

HOLY ****ING ****!!!!!!!!

what kinda argument is that?

don't exceed your abilites. If you don't know why rotafixing is a bad idea, or just trust that it is, use a brake.

If you can't understand the problem you can't foresee the danger. Use a handbrake or better two until you know what you are doing and see the value of fixed-specific parts.


Geez, you really have a problem with rotafixing. This is a bull**** post. Its dangerous and "tacky" blah blah blah...no evidence, and who cares if you think its tacky. Obviously everything related to riding a bike is a risk..and riding fixed has additional risks, so based on your logic you shouldn't ride fixed at all. No one has yet provided any real evidence that rotafixing presents additional risk (assuming you have a brake).

god this is a stupid thread, no offense. the whole topic is stupid.



I seriously hope you are joking...otherwise you are coming off as a serious a-hole track snob. Myself and others use rotafixed cogs, and I think its not a stupid idea to generate some data on failure rate. Yes, one or two anecdotal stories is worthless, but with more and more posts, we can get closer to a good answer.

I seriously hope you are joking...otherwise you are coming off as a serious a-hole track snob.
Search RedDemartini's posts for more fun track/messenger elitism/bull****!

suicide hub is a descendent of suicide brakes, the add ons to road brakes that let you use them from the flats but also gave you the ability to pitch yourself over the bars.
Actually, you couldn't be farther from the truth on both counts.

Suicide levers got their name because the extensions reduced braking power and lever travel, hence "suicide" levers. See: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_e-f.html#extension

The conventional way of making a road fixed gear bicycle before the advent of readily available and affordable "track" hubs was to spin a track cog on a freewheel hub, without any loctite or other thread adhesives. This practice also predates brakeless street riding and silly skidding/skipping and other riding antics.

Suicide levers were a product of the 70s-80s bike boom, while "suicide" hubs have been in existence from at least the early 1900s....So no, suicide hubs were not decendents of suicide levers...

Track hubs were easily available back in the boom years. In fact, at least a couple of low end models came stock with fairly nice flip flop hubs. Most folks had no idea what those hubs were. No, I'm not telling which models, figure it out yourselves, I'm not giving up my supply of cheap 5$ flip-flops. However, many winter riders would do the suicide hub thingie, for a couple of reasons: 1) Cadence, and 2) keeping the winter grime outa your drive. You'd leave your brakes on (the more brakes the better!), take off the mechs, get the cog on tight, maybe stick on a BB lockring, and ride. I rode thru at least three Wisconsin winters on this type of setup. You could skid on the snow no prob (never did it on dry pavement, as I recalls, it has been a long, long, long time); my cog never worked loose. Come spring, throw out your chain and reset the bike as geared. Could be tough to get the cog off, but I always managed.

Myself and others use rotafixed cogs, and I think its not a stupid idea to generate some data on failure rate. Yes, one or two anecdotal stories is worthless, but with more and more posts, we can get closer to a good answer.
So then you'll have 10 anecdotes. Throwing the word "data" into the rhetoric doesn't make it any more viable. I've unscrewed a rotafixa'd cog. Tally that up and your "data" still looks ridiculous.

hey, just curious here...i'm assuming the read loctite is stronger than the blue. is that right?

So then you'll have 10 anecdotes. Throwing the word "data" into the rhetoric doesn't make it any more viable. I've unscrewed a rotafixa'd cog. Tally that up and your "data" still looks ridiculous.

Yeah, apparently because its all anecdotes from stupid people so its worthless data. Geez! It really is insulting how you track snobs can't accept something because it doesn't fit with your idea of cool...so instead yopu call it stupid, tacky, ridiculous, or ever call it dangerous, but with no data. With 10 responses it no longer is anecdotal evidence...it approaches a statistically significant sample. Why don't you go back to school if you can't figure that out. So what if you unscrewed your rotafixed cog..thats not really contributing any important information..so basically your post is ridiculous. How about instead of being a snob, just cooperate. Under what circumstances did it happen...did you have a lockring? loctite? Did you crash?

Its amazing how something as mundane as a thread about rotafixed cogs on a fixed gear bike generates such snobbish, insulting, and uninformed remarks. Instead of getting useful data, you get a bunch of crap about how rotafixing is stupid. It really exposes something about the mentality of some of the people who inhabit this forum.

The plural of anecdotes is not data. Anyone who knows a whit about statistics will tell us that.

This thread is only worthwhile as a gauge of how the most vocal BF posters feel. That's it.

FWIW, I have the money to ride a track hub, so I do, instead of using a method that is more mechanically unsound. Who knows what the odds are, but if the price is a few more bucks, and the cost may be a crash in traffic, I'll pay the price. I don't gamble until I skew the odds as far as possible in my favor.

It really exposes something about the mentality of some of the people who inhabit this forum.
Oh, believe me, your post speaks volumes. :)

The plural of anecdotes is not data. Anyone who knows a whit about statistics will tell us that.

This thread is only worthwhile as a gauge of how the most vocal BF posters feel. That's it.

FWIW, I have the money to ride a track hub, so I do, instead of using a method that is more mechanically unsound. Who knows what the odds are, but if the price is a few more bucks, and the cost may be a crash in traffic, I'll pay the price. I don't gamble until I skew the odds as far as possible in my favor.

If you knew a "whit" about statistics you would know that quality of data is variable, and people posting about their experiences (not how they feel) with rotafixing would be data. Obviously this is not a scientific poll, dumbass. You are only exposing your own ignorance. I was just looking for evidence that rotafixing adds risk. So far no one can relate an experience where rotafix failure led to a crash or other risky situation, but you will clearly be looked down upon by internet forum nerds posing as know-it-all biker hipsters.

Edit:Sorry to be such a jackass to all of you, really. I was merely looking to compile information about rotafix failure, based on actual experience, and its frustrating to get a bunch of posts about how uncool rotafixing is, or people just saying that its dangerous with no real evicence (armchair cycling?), or being pointlessly lectured on statistical methodology. For those relating real experiences...thanks.

i don't get it. rotafix is a method of tightening a track cog onto a hub in the absense of a chainwhip. it's not synonymous with suicide hub.

hey, just curious here...i'm assuming the read loctite is stronger than the blue. is that right?
Yes. The red is meant to be removed after heating it, the blue is removable with a little extra torque. For the most part. There is a blue formula that needs to be heated, and a red formula that is pretty impossible to remove without destroying the fastener, however, these need to be purchased from specialized supply houses. The stuff you find at autozone blue=removable, red=get a torch.

Yes. The red is meant to be removed after heating it, the blue is removable with a little extra torque. For the most part. There is a blue formula that needs to be heated, and a red formula that is pretty impossible to remove without destroying the fastener, however, these need to be purchased from specialized supply houses. The stuff you find at autozone blue=removable, red=get a torch.

that hardcore? it makes me wonder what the deal is with bumbikes, then...how suicidal are they really?

If you knew a "whit" about statistics you would know that quality of data is variable, and people posting about their experiences (not how they feel) with rotafixing would be data.
You keep repeating 'data' like it means something. Here's a small bit of information for you regarding research.

The collection of a large sample under controlled conditions is called quantitative data. It's where you can gather answers to a specific test with a high degree of confidence and accuracy, depending on the sample size (larger is better up to a certain point) and the testing (the fewer variables the better).

The self-reported anecdotes of a small group qualify as qualitative data. That type of data is highly variable, irregular, inaccurate, and personal. It's a great way to start to get leads for further study, get initial emotional impressions from a select test group, etc... but the results are in no way solid enough to be used to draw conclusions.

If you think you can ask a highly self-selected quirky bunch about a hot-button question and get anything approaching useful data compared to the vast sea of people riding with suicide hubs, I can tell you that you're fooling yourself. So, hurl vague insults on the Internet all you want, but I'm the one who gets paid to do this sort of thing for a living. OK?

You're not getting 'good data on failure rate'. You're getting squat.

suicide hub is a descendent of suicide brakes, the add ons to road brakes that let you use them from the flats but also gave you the ability to pitch yourself over the bars.


I don't know nothing about suicide hubs, but I can tell you something about suicide levers. They were not so called because they gave you the ability to pitch yourself over the bars - just the opposite. They were so called because they DON'T WORK. They apply about 30-40% of the brake effort, and that's it. You can pitch yourself over the bars with most brakes, including regular road levers on drops. Many a suicide lever user has had cause to wish he could generate that sort of brake effort with the levers, when approaching a wall/car/pedestrian/sheep/unexploded bomb at speed.

You keep repeating 'data' like it means something. Here's a small bit of information for you regarding research.

The collection of a large sample under controlled conditions is called quantitative data. It's where you can gather answers to a specific test with a high degree of confidence and accuracy, depending on the sample size (larger is better up to a certain point) and the testing (the fewer variables the better).

The self-reported anecdotes of a small group qualify as qualitative data. That type of data is highly variable, irregular, inaccurate, and personal. It's a great way to start to get leads for further study, get initial emotional impressions from a select test group, etc... but the results are in no way solid enough to be used to draw conclusions.

If you think you can ask a highly self-selected quirky bunch about a hot-button question and get anything approaching useful data compared to the vast sea of people riding with suicide hubs, I can tell you that you're fooling yourself. So, hurl vague insults on the Internet all you want, but I'm the one who gets paid to do this sort of thing for a living. OK?

You're not getting 'good data on failure rate'. You're getting squat.


Of course its qualitative data. At any rate, your definitions of qualitative and quantitative data are wrong: quantitative means that there is a measured quantitity, like, length or pressure for instance..qualitative data is different, like an answer of yes or no for instance, or assigning things to categoies. It has absolutely nothing to do with sample size or level of control, although although big samples and a high level of control will iimprove the confidence in the result. Check my posts. Did I ever say quantitative data?...no. I never claimed this to be a statistically rigorous poll. But its a test of a hypothesis, nonetheless.
Let me frame it more clearly for you. Hypothesis: rotafixing does not significantly increase risk if brakes are used. One way to test it, would be a sample of cyclists relating their own experiences with rotafixing (not their opinions). If people report serious crashes related to rotafix failure the hypothesis is clearly falsified. If no one reports serious incidents then its not falsified. You could never prove my hypothesis, because there could always be someone out there who crashed due to rotafixing failure who doesn't read this forum. Thats the hypothetico-deductive method in a nutshell. Hypothesis are never really proven, but when they stand up to repeated testing, we conclude that it is approaching truth. Normally, you would want a random sample, which this forum is not. However, given the apparent hatred of rotafixing on this forum, I would expect that people would readily report nasty accidents related to cog unspinning, which would increase the liklihood of falsifiing the hypothesis. You can call it preliminary data or a preliminary test of you want to, thats fine. Nonetheless; if a number of people report crashes or other accidents relating to rotafix failure, then thats falsifies the hypothesis that rotafixing is not a safe thing. If you filter out all the crap and read the posts by people reporting actual cases and not opinions, you will find that no one has reported serious accidents or dangerous experiences relating to suicide hub failure...I find that interesting and my hypothesis still stands.

Yeah, apparently because its all anecdotes from stupid people so its worthless data.
When it's anecdotes on one message board with (at 8:11 in the morning) 84 active users, yes, that is a ridiculously small sample size. Thus, any data from it is useless.

Geez! It really is insulting how you track snobs can't accept something because it doesn't fit with your idea of cool...so instead yopu call it stupid, tacky, ridiculous, or ever call it dangerous, but with no data.
Ha ha ha, I am so far from a track snob you have no idea. I ride my bike to work and back, just like a lot of folks. I do the occassional alleycat. Both my fixes are conversions. I don't need data to know that something is questionable. I'm not knocking suicide hubs, and I haven't on this thread. But trying to collect real, comprehensive data about a relatively minor technique in a relatively rare segment of the population by using one internet message board is just plain stupid.

With 10 responses it no longer is anecdotal evidence...it approaches a statistically significant sample. Why don't you go back to school if you can't figure that out.
... and standing on a stool brings you closer to the moon, but you're not going to get there anytime soon. I took statistics in college. I passed.

So what if you unscrewed your rotafixed cog..thats not really contributing any important information..
Actually, it's exactly what you asked for. I had a suicide hub, and it failed. Ta-da, one failure to add to your tally. Rejecting "data" because it doesn't agree with your preconceived hypothesis is the hallmark of junk science.

so basically your post is ridiculous. How about instead of being a snob, just cooperate. Under what circumstances did it happen...did you have a lockring? loctite? Did you crash?
Just rotafixa'ed on. No loctite. If you want that additional data, you should ask it in your question, not just "how many suicide hubs have failed?"

Its amazing how something as mundane as a thread about rotafixed cogs on a fixed gear bike generates such snobbish, insulting, and uninformed remarks. Instead of getting useful data, you get a bunch of crap about how rotafixing is stupid. It really exposes something about the mentality of some of the people who inhabit this forum.
Um, yeah. You're totally victimized by all the big bad people on the internet. Chill out, and don't react to one unsupportive post like it's insulting your ancestry.

Yeah, apparently because its all anecdotes from stupid people so its worthless data. Geez! It really is insulting how you track snobs can't accept something because it doesn't fit with your idea of cool...so instead yopu call it stupid, tacky, ridiculous, or ever call it dangerous, but with no data. With 10 responses it no longer is anecdotal evidence...it approaches a statistically significant sample. Why don't you go back to school if you can't figure that out. So what if you unscrewed your rotafixed cog..thats not really contributing any important information..so basically your post is ridiculous. How about instead of being a snob, just cooperate. Under what circumstances did it happen...did you have a lockring? loctite? Did you crash?

Its amazing how something as mundane as a thread about rotafixed cogs on a fixed gear bike generates such snobbish, insulting, and uninformed remarks. Instead of getting useful data, you get a bunch of crap about how rotafixing is stupid. It really exposes something about the mentality of some of the people who inhabit this forum.

this is getting idiotic.

first of all, Aeroplane is the farthest thing from a track snob I can think of. he's just pointing out that there's no way to collect data on "suicide hubs"... unless, that is, you take one hundred of them, assembled consistently, ridden consistently by riders of the same weight and strength, and wait to see what cogs fall off.

personally, i have all the 'data' i need. rotafixed "suicide hubs" are unsafe if you assemble and use them without thought and care. people may ride brakeless with them, but i won't. people may use them w/o the added security (minimal though it may be) of red loctite and a bb lockring, but i won't. the cog may spin off, but it probably won't.

this is getting idiotic.



Couldn't agree with you more on this general statement. All I wanted was some feedback to see if anyone has experienced dangerous crashes from cog spinning off..and I get harassed relentlessly because I'm not using rigorous scientific methods. Jesus, this is an informal internet forum people..useful for things like getting information from people.

Here is some real "data";
First suicide hub:
No loctite, bb lockring.
Lasted two years of commuting through all weather, skids, skips, bunny hops.
Stripped while riding UP a steep hill (Pedals started to feel mushy). No crash
I got off the bike and walked it up the hill. The lockring created enough friction to allow me to ride the bike home as long as I avoided hills. When I got the cog off (had to grind the hub) I discovered that all the threads were not engaged when I installed the cog (I needed a thicker spacer btwn the hub and cog).

Re-built the wheel with an identical hub. Used a thicker spacer, bb lockring, and blue loctite. No problems so far.

Second failure happened to a friend of mine during the "Saints and Sinners" messenger race.
He did not have the cog/lockring on tight enough and it started to spin off (he is not a mechanic and installed it himself).
He thought it was stripped and proceeded to ride down a big hill and across a slippery steel grated bridge.
Half way across the bridge he crashed and trashed his hand. (had nothing to do with the hub).

There you have it. Two hubs, two failures, two different riders. One rider understood the failure and got off the bike, the other tried to win the darwin award.
Suicide? You decide.

Enjoy

Hey Aeroplane, sorry for calling you a track snob.. I confused you with someone who posted earlier. At any rate, I'm not ingoring your data or any one elses. And how do you or anyone else know I'm not compiling data from elsewhere also? (I'm not yet, but you shouldn't be so quick to judge.) As for the small sample size...you never know how many posters you get until you try. It may take a long time to get good data, but you gotta start somewhere. At any rate...as I've said before....THIS WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE A RIGOROUS STATISTICAL POLE and (you or anyone else) critisizing me by nitpicking on the definition of data or flaunting a very rudimentary knowledge of statistical methodology is just plain silly.




When it's anecdotes on one message board with (at 8:11 in the morning) 84 active users, yes, that is a ridiculously small sample size. Thus, any data from it is useless.

Ha ha ha, I am so far from a track snob you have no idea. I ride my bike to work and back, just like a lot of folks. I do the occassional alleycat. Both my fixes are conversions. I don't need data to know that something is questionable. I'm not knocking suicide hubs, and I haven't on this thread. But trying to collect real, comprehensive data about a relatively minor technique in a relatively rare segment of the population by using one internet message board is just plain stupid.

... and standing on a stool brings you closer to the moon, but you're not going to get there anytime soon. I took statistics in college. I passed.

Actually, it's exactly what you asked for. I had a suicide hub, and it failed. Ta-da, one failure to add to your tally. Rejecting "data" because it doesn't agree with your preconceived hypothesis is the hallmark of junk science.

Just rotafixa'ed on. No loctite. If you want that additional data, you should ask it in your question, not just "how many suicide hubs have failed?"

Um, yeah. You're totally victimized by all the big bad people on the internet. Chill out, and don't react to one unsupportive post like it's insulting your ancestry.