Living Car Free - Xtracycle - Overglorified Bike Rack?

I took a good, hard look at the Xtracycle website a little while ago because I had been dreaming for one, and the harder I looked, the more I realised that it seemed to be nothing more than a fancy, well built bike rack. It advertises (for sure used to advertise) that the key to its stability is storing the cargo between the wheel base. I'm not seeing any of this. It looks to me like they are storing stuff at/beside the back wheel just like a standard rack does. As far as I can gather, with stock equiptment, the Xtracycle doesn't even fully utilise the space between the backwheel and main frame that has been freed up. It just, like a regular bike rack, utilises the space beside the tire, and right over top of it (granted, if you're hauling surfboards or things of that like, then I guess that extra space is sort of used).

It looks to me like the key to stablity is having all your load lower to the ground, say... beside the wheels. If this is the case, then why stretch the whole bike out? Why not just build a stronger, slightly longer, more durable bike rack for the back of ones bike? Then you could haul both your cargo with big panniers, and a passenger.

What do you guys think (those with and without Xtracycles)? Am I way out to lunch on my observations, or do you kinda sorta agree with me. Have you seen/built rear racks of the sort I describe?

well..I don't know..I been thinking about getting a heavy duty rear rack..and then buying "freeloaders' and such and make my own cycle so to speak..mind you nothing like the xtra..

it would take a heavy duty rear rack (old school, steel style)
I am thinking saddle bags similiar to motorcycle style.
perhaps a board on top..
may hold 100 pounds?

they do sell just the kit wihtout the bags and wood top for like $240.

I suppose you could regard the Xtracycle as a large rack, but so what ? I have an Xtracycle and I have other bicycles with racks and panniers. The largest add-on racks I have seen are 17" long, and not capable of hauling anywhere near the bulk and weight that the Xtracycle can haul. You can haul two full grocery bags or up to 60 lbs. of cargo with the best rear rack and pannier setups, although the dimensions of the cargo are severely limited. The Xtracycle will handle over 100 lbs. if you have a sturdy rear wheel, and bulky cargo if you have the side loader attachments. You can easily carry four full-size grocery bags with the standard "freeloader" panniers.
On the other hand, you could probably carry the same amount using a trailer, which is something I have never tried.

The Xtracycle is just a fancy well built bike rack. I think you'd defiantly get your loads lower with an X than a pannier and slightly more forward on the rear wheel. If you look at my pics below (taken today) this is a 90% stock MTB with a 100% stock Xtracycle if you were carrying a load like that over a regular rear wheel rack wouldn't your heals hit the cargo when you pedal? That load is all stuff saved from the dumpster that's most of the materials I need to make DIY wideloaders and a wooden bike stand.

http://ltoole.photosite.com/~photos/tn/1409_348.ts1148348438906.jpg

http://ltoole.photosite.com/~photos/tn/1411_348.ts1148348442640.jpg

I think the rack and Panniers you're talking about would cost almost as much as an X and never haul as much stuff. The X is also pretty DIY friendly. I might Get another X frame and build it up DIY deluxe style for my friends to use along side me.

I have carried six bags of groceries and a 20L shop vac, or a passenger, two roll on luggage pieces and two backpacks. The passenger carrying capacity alone makes this more than a glorified bike rack; oh, and I doubt I could haul a full-size djembe with a bike rack, wheras the xtracycle makes that trivially easy. It's true there's some underexploited space in a stock Xtracycle. Add an English touring bag and you're most of the way there. There's probably room for an aftermarket bag to fit the area above the chainstay, or one can fit a Stokemonkey there and have an electric hybrid capable of truly impressive feats.

The stock Xtracycle is pretty dope tech though. In my flat city I'm not looking for a Stokemonkey; anything I've been able to load i've been able to haul. Nor do I miss not having a bag off the saddle, since I have an abundance of cargo space. To put it in perspective, there's a thread on touring with a backpack; when I go on a camping tour (less than a month) I'm planning to simply strap my internal frame backpack to the Snapdeck, and put the sleeping back in one Freeloader and the tent in the other. Simply couldn't do it without the Xtracycle; no room, and it wouldn't be stable if I managed.

I found the xtracycle while looking for a rack and panniers. I thought long and hard about what I could haul with each, using examples from my life. Two things clinched the deal for me: my wife, and my drums. Both of them get driven around a lot on Big Loada and they love it. The standard Xtracycle kit lets most people haul as much as they are physically capable of hauling; toss in a couple wideloaders and they sky is the limit (I'm guessing nine full-sized straw bales would not be impossible). Again, you could put a bag off the saddle English-style to get even more capacity if you chose, and it would look cool, too; but don't be mislead, the Xtracycle has far more capacity as shipped than any rear rack and panniers.

The bike is stable because the main weight, YOU, is right between the wheels. Even when you add a passenger, the fact that they are low and directly above the driving force works to your advantage. Touring bikes are praised for their smooth ride due to a long wheelbase; an xtracycle is seriously smooth. I find I can shift down to my lowest granny gear and spin forward extremely slowly when fully loaded, practically trackstanding. The performance on single-track was frankly a surprise even though the company praises this aspect to the winds. I simply didn't believe it. What you don't want to do is get up out of the saddle and hammer the pedals while fully loaded; the bike sways alarmingly agains the FreeRadical and you start wishing you had an integral frame. I have learned a) to stay in the saddle which is no problem with proper gearing and b) how to stand and pedal without thrashing the bike around. Also you can't jump your front wheel over things at all, so be prepared to soak a bit more road bump, conversely, the frame does soak up more vibration than it used to.

Xtracycle is the darling of this forum for good reason. There's nothing like it and it is the kind of tool that keeps on giving. I was an early Leatherman adopter, and you have no idea how many loose screws and nuts got some love in those early months; turns out if you have a pliers and screwdriver right on hand things get fixed. Xtracycle is like that; when you have one you get groceries and still cruise the alleys on the way home (and score three merino wool italian blazers, I might add). Or you go to the corner grocery, spot a friend, and give her a ride home after first picking up the groceries; she drinks a smoothie and holds on, you pedal at a stately 10 mph and tell her about your week.

I'll start a thread on my Xtracycle car-free experiences soon...it's been mostly a joy, and I couldn't go back and don't want to.

It looks to me like the key to stablity is having all your load lower to the ground, say... beside the wheels. If this is the case, then why stretch the whole bike out?
...
Am I way out to lunch on my observations, or do you kinda sorta agree with me.

You've missed some important points. A bicycle benefits from being set up so that under uneven pedaling (side to side force and forward force) and braking forces, the bike's load's center of gravity stays solidly between the wheels. You can get that effect on a regular bike using low-slung panniers, especially if you use front and rear panniers.

With an xtracycle, the center of gravity will always be a good distance forward of the rear wheel because the rider (who usually makes up well over a third of what the xtracycle carries in weight) is a long distance ahead of the wheel. What that means is that higher loads, and loads extending further behind the pedals' circle, tend to upset the handling less. When the bike tilts to the side some (as it does under normal pedaling) the load in the back will tend less to twist the rear of the bike around and more to keep the bike moving in the same direction, while the weight of the rider will have a greater tendency to offset any twisting tendencies that come from a large load on the rear wheel, since the rider is far from the rear wheel. (kind of like how it would be so hard to get the front of a tandem bike to move left or right by twisting on the rear wheel)

Atman, are we talking small square bales, or BIG ROUND bales? Eeh eeh eeh!

Anywho, it's sounding like I was both right and wrong in my analysis of the Xtracycle. Now I REALLY want one. But, I'm guestimating that I'll have to save up a bunch for a while... 'cause I'm guesstimating that it will cost about $500 US for the kit (with shipping, a guestimate on my part), and then convert that into Canadian Dollars... if I wait long enough, until the Canadian dollar is stronger... :) But I guess I'll just have to wait and see.

Thanks for the feedback.

I agree the xtra is so much better then a bike rack.
this thread though mad me think to make my own xtra..though it would be a glorfied bike rack!

I gotta admit I was completely skeptical. But I'm a believer now.

A few photos :)

http://www.bikerubbish.com/may2006/xcycle3.jpg

http://www.bikerubbish.com/may2006/xcycle4.jpg

http://www.bikerubbish.com/may2006/xcycle5.jpg

Forgive me if I am missing something obvious here but how in the dickens do you get on your bike with a load like that? I have to lean my bike a fair bit to get my leg over...

Thanks for clearing up my confusion :)


The Xtracycle is just a fancy well built bike rack. I think you'd defiantly get your loads lower with an X than a pannier and slightly more forward on the rear wheel. If you look at my pics below (taken today) this is a 90% stock MTB with a 100% stock Xtracycle if you were carrying a load like that over a regular rear wheel rack wouldn't your heals hit the cargo when you pedal? That load is all stuff saved from the dumpster that's most of the materials I need to make DIY wideloaders and a wooden bike stand.

http://ltoole.photosite.com/~photos/tn/1409_348.ts1148348438906.jpg

http://ltoole.photosite.com/~photos/tn/1411_348.ts1148348442640.jpg

I think the rack and Panniers you're talking about would cost almost as much as an X and never haul as much stuff. The X is also pretty DIY friendly. I might Get another X frame and build it up DIY deluxe style for my friends to use along side me.

well....just a guess but it looks like he/she has plenty of standover just by looking at the seat as it relates to the top tube. They could probably easily lift a leg over the top tube without any manipulation or leaning of the bike.

ellenDSD- I usually lean my bike when it's unloaded. when the X is full I have enough standover to make a big side-step over the toptube but it's a little awkward.

http://www.ucolick.org/~de/AltTrans/Free_Radical/index.html

more on the xtracycle.