Cyclocross - Salsa Las Cruces

I am about to "go for it" and build up this custom CX bike. Any comments? Am am particularly concerned about the drivetrain compatability it is all Shimano, except for the FSA crank. Did I forget something?

Salsa Las Cruces 54cm Disc Dreamsicle. If anyone has a 54 or 56, I'd be interested in hearing about fit. I am 5' 11.5" and am leaning towards the 54. Does anyone know if the 2006 Las Cruces has the braze ons for a rear rack?

Front Wheel
Left Cross: 3, Right Cross: 3
Deore XT M760 32h Front Hub Black
Salsa Delgado Cross 700c 32h Black Road Rim
DT Swiss SuperComp BLACK *use 1.8mm nipple *EACH*
DT 1.8x12mm Prolock Bras s Black *EACH* nipple

Rear Wheel
Left Cross: 3, Right Cross: 4 <<<Change
Deore XT M760 36h Rear Hub Black
Salsa Delgado Cross 700c 36h Black Road Rim
DT Swiss SuperComp BLACK *use 1.8mm nipple *EACH*
DT 1.8x12mm Brass SILVER *EACH* std nipple lengt
Deore XT M760 9-Spd Cassette 11-34
Cane Creek S-3 1-1/8" Blk threadless headset

Stem-- MotoAce SUL 90mm 115^ 31.8 Road Blk
Handlebar---Salsa Bell Lap 46cm 31.8 BLK

Shifters---105 ST-5510 black STI levers (pair)
Crank and BB---FSA Gossamer MegaExo Com pact 175 34-50 S9/C10 BB
Chain---XTR/D-Ace CN7701 9spd 6. 6mm silver chain
Rear Der---Deore XT M760 GS Rapidri se 9spd rr der
Front Der---105 FD5600 10-speed 34.9mm Frt Der

Brake levers---Salsa Cross Levers
Avid Shorty 6 Cantilever Front brake Nickel
Avid Shorty 6 Cantilever Rear brake Nickel

Seatpost---Ritchey WCS 27.2x350mm seatpost Black one-piece
Seat---Terry Liberator Ti Race Ti
Bar tape---Salsa Classico Bar Tape BLK, embossed Salsa logo
Bar plugs---Ciclolinea Carbon Fiber Type bar plugs

Tires--Michelin Cyclocross JetS 700x30 Blk

I'd for sure get the 54. I'm sure you've heard to buy 1 size down. I normally ride a 54 road bike and I have a 51 CX that feels better than the 54. I see lots of CX bikes for sale with the reason being it's too big.

Maybe you can find a stock 54 in another brand somewhere with the same geometry and check the feel. Better than guessing.

Nice build.

It sounds like a damn delicious build. A few personal notes:

I've got the FSA Gossamer (48/38) cranks. Not terribly impressed and I've been chasing down a creaking noise from them for a while. Works well enough, just wouldn't be my choice for a build.

The Avid's are notorious for squeal. On mine they stopped like the dickens but the noise literally turned heads from over a block away. The Pauls are working much nicer. Considering the cost they damned well better.

will the 105 brifters work with a rapid-rise XT rear mech?

will the 105 brifters work with a rapid-rise XT rear mech?
That is a good question. I guess that I'll find out. Might have to sell the der and cassette and replace with something else. I really want the high-low range since pittsburgh has many hills.

I'd for sure get the 54. I'm sure you've heard to buy 1 size down. I normally ride a 54 road bike and I have a 51 CX that feels better than the 54. I see lots of CX bikes for sale with the reason being it's too big.

Maybe you can find a stock 54 in another brand somewhere with the same geometry and check the feel. Better than guessing.

Nice build.
check your TT sizes! Cross bikes are sized in an 'interesting' manner...

Personal opinion sez get the CX frame that's closest to your road bike and adjust with a slightly shorter/taller stem.

HTH,

M

That is a good question. I guess that I'll find out. Might have to sell the der and cassette and replace with something else. I really want the high-low range since pittsburgh has many hills.

Jenson USA (http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/RD707A04-Shimano+Xt+M750+Rear+Derailleur.aspx) has some of the standard-rise XT-750 derailers for 50 bucks. i know those would work.

other option would be wait for the new '07 XTR standard-rise model. but who wants to wait?

Salsa Las Cruces 54cm Disc Dreamsicle. If anyone has a 54 or 56, I'd be interested in hearing about fit. I am 5' 11.5" and am leaning towards the 54. Does anyone know if the 2006 Las Cruces has the braze ons for a rear rack?

I built up the exact frame, and simply love the bike! In terms of frame size, I am 5' 8", and I have a 54cm frame that fits me well. I'm built with little torso, and a lot of leg though. I also run a 54cm road bike if that helps.

I'd want to ride that frame before I bought it. 54 sounds really small to me, for someone almost 6 ft tall. Also, 90mm stem is pretty short.

I have the crank you are considering, and I like the compact gearing. Functionally it works fine, but it has very soft, cheese-like chainrings, and the shift ramps don't work as well as some others. I'm running barend shifters, so front shifts are not a problem for me, but with brifters things might not be as smooth as they could be. The crank creaks after you get it wet- I take mine apart from time to time and lube up the splines-easy and quick, but it would be better not to have to do it at all. If I could do it again, I probably would have grabbed a campy compact road crank and square taper bb.

I'd try to get some oldschool cantilevers from a MTB, the avids really chatter on the front-and I mean *badly*. I've got some Diacompe 987s that work exceptionally well. A fork mounted cable stop also helps. Or you could run discs.

Final comment, the headset. I have the S-2, and I am going to get rid of it. The cartridge bearings fret in their cups and make tons of creaking noise, and the bearings themselves are very low quality. I much prefer the cheaper FSA ball bearing headset on my other 2 bikes. 20 bucks, works like a charm. Or bike the bullet and get a king...you know you want to.

I don't know about "cheeselike chainrings" I'm pretty sure all the FSA rings are all the same spec across the product line but try to get the FSA energy compact, much lighter and just as stiff, not a lot of difference in price unless you have something against ISIS. I don't think you will need anything bigger than a 48 either. Ditch the avids.

I don't know about "cheeselike chainrings" I'm pretty sure all the FSA rings are all the same spec across the product line

They are the softest rings I have ever encountered. The small ring on my crankset actually showed significant yeilding (the aluminum deformed) on the leading edge of the teeth after a few hours of trail use. Now that is *soft*. I've never seen that before, even on an aluminum 24t granny ring, where the chain tension is much higher.

They are the softest rings I have ever encountered. The small ring on my crankset actually showed significant yeilding (the aluminum deformed) on the leading edge of the teeth after a few hours of trail use. Now that is *soft*. I've never seen that before, even on an aluminum 24t granny ring, where the chain tension is much higher.

So are you saying that you torqued the crank soo hard that spider flexed out of shape and that caused the small chainring to bend? If you sat on the bike and looked down at the crank, with no chain on the bike and turned the crank you see a left-right wobble in the chainring?

or

That the crank arm / spider was not an issue, but the teeth on the small chainring wore out after only a few miles of rough riding?

I am guessing that a minor log grind would likely cause some issues with this crank / chainring.

They are the softest rings I have ever encountered. The small ring on my crankset actually showed significant yeilding (the aluminum deformed) on the leading edge of the teeth after a few hours of trail use. Now that is *soft*. I've never seen that before, even on an aluminum 24t granny ring, where the chain tension is much higher.


let me guess. . .you weigh over 200 lbs?

well I guess there are alternatives for the Orson Wells wannabees, stainless DH rings anyone?

So are you saying that you torqued the crank soo hard that spider flexed out of shape and that caused the small chainring to bend? If you sat on the bike and looked down at the crank, with no chain on the bike and turned the crank you see a left-right wobble in the chainring?

or

That the crank arm / spider was not an issue, but the teeth on the small chainring wore out after only a few miles of rough riding?

I am guessing that a minor log grind would likely cause some issues with this crank / chainring.

Neither. The front edge of the chainring teeth, where the chain roller bears on it, had deformed due to chain tension. There was a noticeable ridge on either side of the leading edge of each tooth where the material ballooned out as it deformed. If I still have the chainring in question, I will photograph it and post a picture. I am not talking about worn teeth, or bent rings, I am talking about teeth that are too soft for the load that is placed on them by the chain. The big ring did not have the same failure despite more frequent use, presumably because the chain tension is far lower when using it.

let me guess. . .you weigh over 200 lbs?

well I guess there are alternatives for the Orson Wells wannabees, stainless DH rings anyone?

195 lb. No problems with the 6061 no name ring I replaced it with.

Neither. The front edge of the chainring teeth, where the chain roller bears on it, had deformed due to chain tension. There was a noticeable ridge on either side of the leading edge of each tooth where the material ballooned out as it deformed. If I still have the chainring in question, I will photograph it and post a picture. I am not talking about worn teeth, or bent rings, I am talking about teeth that are too soft for the load that is placed on them by the chain. The big ring did not have the same failure despite more frequent use, presumably because the chain tension is far lower when using it.
Weird. I'd like to see that.

I was looking at my friend's axiom and see that it has the 105 Shifters and Deore XT R Der and that is working on his stock bike, so it should work for me as well.

On another note--
I opened the 54 cm and it is too small. Before I RMA this does anyone want to take it off my hands for 720 + shipping? Let me know soon since I am going to send it back early this week if no one wants it.
The cheapest that I have seen it on the web was 900.



--Mark

I don't know about "cheeselike chainrings"...

My FSA cranks with ~500 miles (alas, mostly paved) show significant wear. More than anything I've encountered elsewhere. My 48T outer is down to a 45T (chipped) and I'm seeing the worn 'shark fin' look as well.

My FSA cranks with ~500 miles (alas, mostly paved) show significant wear. More than anything I've encountered elsewhere. My 48T outer is down to a 45T (chipped) and I'm seeing the worn 'shark fin' look as well.

Wich model? Looks like the cr thickness might have something to do with it. Are these the 9 or 10 s or c?

GOSSAMER MEGAEXO

Precision CNC machined 7075/T6 chainrings, ramped and pinned for perfect shifing


K-FORCE MEGAEXO
New semi-solid precision 100% CNC machined AL7075/T6 chainrings


http://www.raceface.com/components/chainrings/cadencerings.htm

T6, one of the strongest alloys available today.
· Outer rings are made from 4mm thick material & middle rings from 5mm thick material for unsurpassed durability.

Outer, middle and aluminum inner rings manufactured from 7075-T6, one of the strongest alloys available today.
· Outer rings are made from 4mm thick material & middle rings from 5mm thick material for unsurpassed durability.

Crankset: FSA Gossamer Cross, 38/48T as equipped on my '05 spec'd with 10sp Campy. I suspect it's just a Gossamer Compact with different rings.

Don't get me wrong. The cranks are working well enough, but it seems a very early ring replacement will be due.

Hello,

RACK:

it does not have a mount for a rack. I am thinking about using the cantilever brake mounting in order to mount a rack. because
I WILL SWITCH TO DISC


BRAKES

I am using the shimano cantilever cross brakes and DON'T like them at all
I have bought CHRIS KING Hubs and Avid Road disc brakes, will mount them as soon as I have recieved the Rims, Disc rims are hard to get in 28 (29) inch, especially if you want to ride tyres between 30mm and 38mm


RAPID RISE
I use the XTR 960 rapid rise, it works vey well with the 105 black STI's.short cage does the job
I had a 105 black on first but I prefer rapid rise since I have this as well on my trekking bike

HEADSET
I use chris King, I went crazy and had to have it, Idon0t know if its the frame or the headset but its just PERFECT, unbelivable, I can take my hands of the Bell Lap 46cm bar at 60km/h and leanin a curve... never was this possible on my old bikes (60km/h -> bizzare european way to say 38 mph)

CRANKSET
I am 230lbs 6"4", I have ben and broken many of those (XT and Ultegra as well) and I use the MegaExo Compact you described, I have done 1600km (-> europeen1000 miles) with it, may on them on trails, and there are no sign of weakness to me, on my threkking I have XTR950, I don't feel a big difference regarding stiffness.
BUT it's one of the only parts I didn't mont myself, I have heard from people having trouble, stories ending with hammers and so. I als had the KING headset monted by a PRO.

FRONT DERAILLEUR
I have bought a FSA C16, it is made to fit the FSA compactcrank, I must say since I only mont Cranksets with the derailleur from the same brand/model I have FARE LESS trouble with the adjustments


BAR
the BELL LAP in 46 is realy wide, I use it but I have wide shoulders, especially since it's bent outwards (to the outside, sorry I am not native english speaking..) I LOVE IT
You are goning for the orange bar tape on it? it gets durty quite fats but it looks great.

SIZE
I have the 60cm and for me it fits like a glove


The Las Cruces is m favorite bike now, I use it manly for sport, I commute with the trekking bike
it's just great

Update. The splines on my FSA Gossamer Megaexo compact are pooched. I am not overly impressed with this cank. Others have had similar experiences.

FSA FAILURE (http://groups.google.ca/group/rec.bicycles.tech/browse_frm/thread/c90e7527410f0854/52a71ff44f9c6084?hl=en#52a71ff44f9c6084)

The 2006 Salsa Las Cruces build is done.

In deciding what urban assult / commuter bike to get I looked at Kona’s Jake the Snake, Specialized’s Tri-cross and the Salsa. I test road both a Jake and a Tricross, but I could not test the Las Cruces, so I just went for it and built one up. The Las Cruces would retail for about $2200, the Tricross Comp was $1700 and the Jake was $1200.

As far as handling goes, the Scandium – Aluminum alloy and Carbon fiber forks absorbs the bumps well, without sacrificing stiffness needed to put the power to the tires. I took the bike on the crushed limestone/slag trails of Frick and Shenley Parks, down a few miles of off camber single track with roots and shale, along 30 miles of river trails and over 2 miles of railroad ballast. The bike preformed surprisingly well over some harsh bumps and trails. This is one of the lightest bikes that I have ever owned; my guess is that it comes in around 20 pounds. Despite the light weight the thing has very little flex in the drive train and eats up the smaller bumps and ruts like nothing. I did have to get off the seat if I was going over 5 inch or more bumps, roots and small rain gulleys, but for a bike with no shocks, that’s far better then I expected. This bike absorbed bumps a bit better than a Kona Jake and was more far more forgiving on the bumps then the Specialized Tri-Cross, which was somewhat harsh in this area, even with the Zert insert forks. To be fair I only test rode those for a few miles and did not subject them to the punishment level of this test.

On the pavement the bike is a demon. The city was in the process of repaving 5th Ave and left some smooth ramps leading to manhole covers. I sailed over these this morning going 25 mph and got some decent air. The light, responsive frame and Salsa Bell Lap 31.8mm handlebars made it a breeze to bunny hop speed bumps.

Size
I sent back the 54 cm back and got a 56. I think that if I was racing, the 54 would be better for the ons and offs, but since I am using it more as an urban assault / commuter the larger frame is ok and gives a bit of a higher handlebar. I still have 1.5 inches of standover with the 30c tires.

Tires
The Michelin Jet 700X30Cs, cornered very well on the off-camber hill with shale and kept a line under moderatly fast turns on the crushed limestone. I did find that I got a rear flat with no signs of a cause. I was using 700x 30-35 tubes. I’ll have to pump some air into the old tube and see what the problem was.

Brakes—
I built the bike with the Avid Shorty 6 Cantilevers, despite the warnings that these brakes where squeaky. Initially the rears where squeaky but after playing with the different cantilever cable things and towing in the shoes about 2 mm., made sure that the shoes hit squarely on the rims and that was all that it took. I’d say that I spent about 1.5 hours on the whole brake installation and adjustment. I was swilling some Busmill's black so that could explain the time. After these adjustments, only a tiny bit of squeak remained right before you stop on a hard brake, but nothing annoying at all. I forgot that I needed a front 1 1/8" fork mounted Cantalever hanger and got one that works from a LBS, but I likely will replace that with one of the “Problem Solvers” brand that has the liner and a cleaner angle.

I have not experienced any fork shudder. I plan on putting that to the test later, once I feel more confident about doing a hard-on-the-front brake panic stop.

The Crank and BB---FSA Gossamer MegaExo Com pact 175 34-50 S9/C10 BB.
After reading about darkmother’s issues I have some comments. First, the chainline, seems to need another mm. That is a 1mm spacer on the drive side might stem an issue that happens when I am on the small ring and the 7,8 or 9 in the back that causes the chain to rub on the inside of the big ring. At least that is what I think is happening. Could be that the 105 front derailleur that I am using is a poor choice since the jump on the 34-50 is out of spec of that. I will definitely keep a close eye on that preload dust cap thing and will “Loc tight” that on, since no one needs a crank arm to work loose and wear out the spline.

In order to make the 34-50 and 11-34 work, I had to go for an XT with the longest cage. The rapid rise works well with the 105 levers. But this set up looks very non-cx with such a wonking wide range. I’ll have to fool with the front to get all 16 usable gears to work without any noise, since the front 105 is not suited for such a big change. I have not cranked out the 50 -11, and it is obvously not something that I will need much, even living in a hilly city. The 1 to 1 of the 34 - 34 gets me up a 1800 foot long, 300 foot assent at about 7 miles per hour. If I where racing this I'd go with the more conventional 34-44; 12-28 and the short cage rear derailure.

The handlebars are too wide for me, as Raul suggested they would be. I’ll probably be going from the 46cm down to a 44 soon.

The seatpost is a Ritchey WCS 27.2x350mm. It seems to work OK, but I am presuming that I am not cranking the 2 bolts tight enough, because the thing gradually points to the sky, causing a progressively more uncomfortable fit. I don’t have a torque wrench so I am giving it about 90% effort on a 6 inch wide tri-allen wrench. It calls for 16 newtons or something. After the third tightening the seat angle seems stable. Maybe I should get a &#188;" torque wrench so that I can take the guess work out of tightening.

It would be nice to have upper rack mounts for the rear. I miss my trunk and want to find a rack that attatches to the bottom holes and the seatpost.

Left over from the build is a
Rear Der---Deore XT M760 GS Rapidri se 9spd rr der—available now for $55 plus shipping.
Soon I’ll have no need for the Salsa Bell Lap 46cm 31.8 BLK and be selling that for 25 plus shipping.

Sounds like an awesome rig! Glad you are happy with it. Post some pictures when you get a chance.

I use my CX bike so much more often than I ever would have guessed-I pretty much bought it as a road bike, but now it is taking a lot of trail time away from my MTB-I even do group rides with the FS MTB guys without problems. CX bikes are so versatile and fun, I love that you can blast through some singletrack, then hit the road without missing a beat.

The seatpost is a Ritchey WCS 27.2x350mm. It seems to work OK, but I am presuming that I am not cranking the 2 bolts tight enough, because the thing gradually points to the sky, causing a progressively more uncomfortable fit. I don’t have a torque wrench so I am giving it about 90% effort on a 6 inch wide tri-allen wrench. It calls for 16 newtons or something. After the third tightening the seat angle seems stable. Maybe I should get a ¼" torque wrench so that I can take the guess work out of tightening.



get a torque wrench pronto, you really need 2 since the range for most fasteners on a modern bike is too low for one that is right for BB and crank arm duties. If you didn't use a torque wrench on your seat post clamp chances are you have already damaged your seat post if it is CF.

get a torque wrench pronto, you really need 2 since the range for most fasteners on a modern bike is too low for one that is right for BB and crank arm duties. If you didn't use a torque wrench on your seat post clamp chances are you have already damaged your seat post if it is CF.


Luckily the seatpost is not CF. I figure that holding at 3-4 inches from the rotating point, is not going to get me enough leverage to snap most smaller bolts. Retightened and it has been ok for a week. I would like to grab a craftsman torque wrench on ebay for 20 bucks though.