View Full Version : problem with hand signals
Eli_Damon
05-24-06, 08:30 AM
Supposedly, I am supposed to use hand signals to indicate when I intend to stop, turn, or change lanes. In fact, the Massachusetts Generals Laws (Chapter 85, Section 11B) require it. However, I have trouble controlling the bike and maintaining my balance with only one hand on the handlebars, especially if it is my right hand, and especially if I am performing some kind of maneuver such as stopping, turning, or changing lanes. I also only have access to one brake and, if I signal with my left hand as recommended in most situations, I only have access to the rear brake, which provides only minimal stopping force.
Does anyone else experience this problem? Do you have any recommendations? Eli
Mostly it's a learned skill and planning ahead. It's also perfectly fine to signal a right turn with your right arm straight out.
I wouldn't sweat it too much since most drivers don't know what the hand signals mean, and very few are paying any attention to you anyway. Hand signals are mostly just a courtesy.
Az
va_cyclist
05-24-06, 09:10 AM
Two suggestions:
Practice in a parking lot to maintain your balance while riding with one hand. You need to be able to ride one-handed not just for signaling, but for taking on water, wiping sweat, all kinds of things. If you're really wobbling when one hand comes off the bars, you're probably putting too much weight on your hands.
Start braking earlier so you don't rely so much on the brakes at the time you need to signal.
AndrewP
05-24-06, 10:35 AM
The only hand signal I use much is the left turn signal. I give this signal well before the turn, prior to moving across the lanes. I do not try to slow down while I am doing this, as I try to maintain speed wth the traffic as I move across.
You need to practice riding one handed, and also riding in a straight line while looking over your shoulder.
Supposedly, I am supposed to use hand signals to indicate when I intend to stop, turn, or change lanes. In fact, the Massachusetts Generals Laws (Chapter 85, Section 11B) require it. However, I have trouble controlling the bike and maintaining my balance with only one hand on the handlebars, especially if it is my right hand, and especially if I am performing some kind of maneuver such as stopping, turning, or changing lanes. I also only have access to one brake and, if I signal with my left hand as recommended in most situations, I only have access to the rear brake, which provides only minimal stopping force.
Does anyone else experience this problem? Do you have any recommendations? Eli
I signal twice... way before I need to do the move... then grab the handle bars as I need to... and again just before I do the move.
sggoodri
05-24-06, 01:37 PM
There are a number of things you can do to minimize the time your hand spends off the handlebar. One is the head turn to look for traffic - it gets the attention of drivers behind you that you might be intending to move in their direction. The other is lateral positioning. Once the space is clear to do so safely, shift/merge your bike to the side of the road/lane corresponding to your destination - right if turning right, left (toward the centerline of a 2-way road) if turning left. Your position makes it clear to which side they should not pass, and to which side they may.
Coupled with these techniques, one or two of brief hand signals are usually more than adequate to ensure that nearby drivers know where you intend to go, and if you cannot take your hands off the bars at all for control reasons, you'll be reasonably safe completing your maneuver.
-SteveG
It will be a happy day when bikes come equipped with turn signals. I guess it's another aspect of cage vs. bike -- in a cage, you can leave your turn signal on from the beginning of a turn (100 feet before the turn) to the end. On a bike, as long as you make eye contact with the relevant drivers before and during the turn, hand signals are really just icing (albeit, somewhat dangerous icing if you have to do a hand signal for a long time -- while waiting for a hole in traffic, for example -- actually, in that case, I probably wouldn't do a hand signal at all -- which contributes to the image of cyclists as unpredictable law-breakers -- brain -- exploding -- gahhhhh)
Around here, sticking your left hand out and moving over means the driver will think "I better speed up a lot, cross over the center line, and pass this $%^& bicycle before we get to that red light/stop sign 50ft away".
Az
bicycledriver.com suggests signalling for a very brief period of time (less than a second), doing it multiple times (like two or three), then checking your mirror or over your shoulder for the driver's reaction. this has always worked for me.
It will be a happy day when bikes come equipped with turn signals.
drivers will not pay attention to blinking turn signals on a bike.
drivers will not pay attention to blinking turn signals on a bike.
I tend to agree. Even I'm not wide enough to give adequate seperation between a left signal and a right signal for it to be recognized as such. There was a thread on the roadie forum talking about this, someone mentioned the idea of having such a signal being glove mounted so that it would make the hand signals be more visible. Since I ride a lot at night I thought this was an interesting thought.
Kayakado
05-25-06, 07:07 AM
Look around, you can find battery operated brake light and turn signals for your bike. I thought they were a throwback to the old days, but my brother recently visited and both he and my nephew had them on their bikes.
sggoodri
05-25-06, 07:47 AM
On the commute home last night I made my best effort to shoulder check/eye contact, hand signal, merge in line with traffic, shoulder check/eye contact, hand signal, merge over to left side of the lane, and finally hand signal for a left turn continuously.
The yahoo motorist behind me watched all of this, and still decided to speed up at the last moment and pass me on the left at the intersection in the other lane. Fortunately I was looking at him often enough to realize what he was going to do. The hand signal didn't mean squat to him; only by watching him was I able to avoid a collision. But this is the rare case; my lateral position prevents this sort of thing from happening 99% of the time. But it's a good reminder to glance back before initiating a turn even when you're in the correct location.
TuckertonRR
05-25-06, 10:31 AM
I refuse to signal anymore; the last time I signalled a right turn a cager thought I was flipping him the bird!
If you can't use your arms, stick your leg out. Both legs out for stop.
Bekologist
05-25-06, 10:39 AM
The yahoo motorist behind me watched all of this, and still decided to speed up at the last moment and pass me on the left at the intersection in the other lane..... The hand signal didn't mean squat to him.
i've read advice in A&S that suggests perhaps you didn't issue the correct combination of insoucient hand motions and eyebrow arching in the driver's direction. Heck, steve, its your notions about cars, and things you cannot change, and the wisdom to know the difference? I get all this advice in here mixed up.
Naw, in reading back, this couldn't of happened. I think you're making this up.
It's been recommended to me in in A&S to check your back to see if someone perhaps placed an ''i'm a loser-hit me" placard on your cycling garb?
I like to signal using psychic edicts to other roadway users, coupled with farting in their general direction, practicing my ventriloquist skills and ear waggling.
Alternately, both hands in the air like I'm breaking the tape, then pointing in my intended direction as i ride no handed and blow the stop.
donnamb
05-25-06, 09:12 PM
I like to signal using psychic edicts to other roadway users
I could never understand why so many cyclists don't signal. I get it now! Hey, did you take classes for the psychic stuff, or does it come naturally? Is it something that they give you with every bike but my LBS forgot to give me?;)
I am supposed to use hand signals ... However, I have trouble controlling the bike and maintaining my balance with only one hand on the handlebars
Do you have any recommendations? Eli
Stop riding in traffic until you can properly operate your vehicle!
If a motorist said he had trouble operating his motor-vehicle with one hand on the steering wheel (and using the other hand to signal and/or shift), he would fail his motor vehicle test and be a hazard to himself and others.
Go to an empty parking lot and practice controlling your bike with just one hand until you are comfortable with it. Only then should you go into traffic. Your life, and the lives of others on the road, depends on it.
Roughstuff
05-25-06, 09:35 PM
Supposedly, I am supposed to use hand signals to indicate when I intend to stop, turn, or change lanes. In fact, the Massachusetts Generals Laws (Chapter 85, Section 11B) require it. However, I have trouble controlling the bike and maintaining my balance with only one hand on the handlebars, especially if it is my right hand, and especially if I am performing some kind of maneuver such as stopping, turning, or changing lanes. I also only have access to one brake and, if I signal with my left hand as recommended in most situations, I only have access to the rear brake, which provides only minimal stopping force.
Does anyone else experience this problem? Do you have any recommendations? Eli
Bingo, Bingo, Bingo. Not only have you mentioned all the reason why hand signals are impractical for bicycles, you have highlighted why they are impractical for any road user...bicycle, vehicle, truck, bus, whatever. I might add the final nail in the coffin of hand signals is they require you to remove your hands from the steering mechanism at the very moment you need it the most!!!
Most vehicles (sigh...here we go again) now have signal lights in the rear, front, and on the door mirrors so that as many roadway users as possible can see how the vehicle is turning. I'll bet they'll add them to the rear windshield (much like brake lights on newer vehicles) soon, as well, so that even cars more than one behind the turning vehicle can see them.
Me...i sometimes use hand signals. If the intersection is that busy, I hop off and walk with the light. Not only do I feel more secure, I find it more courteous than making people guess what I am doing at the light. On country roads they are useful.
roughstuff
I could never understand why so many cyclists don't signal. I get it now! Hey, did you take classes for the psychic stuff, or does it come naturally? Is it something that they give you with every bike but my LBS forgot to give me?;)
signals are a sign of weakness in the city
only time I signal is when im in a mexican standoff situation in an intersection and im doing a trackstand directing traffic, people usually seem to be ok with it most of the time
Bingo, Bingo, Bingo. Not only have you mentioned all the reason why hand signals are impractical for bicycles, you have highlighted why they are impractical for any road user...bicycle, vehicle, truck, bus, whatever. I might add the final nail in the coffin of hand signals is they require you to remove your hands from the steering mechanism at the very moment you need it the most!!!
If you cannot operate your vehicle with only one hand then you do not have enough skill to drive/ride and shouldn't be on the road. And you apparently have never drive stick-shift since you need to downshift as you enter a turn. That requires the left hand on the wheel and the right hand on the stick.
FWIW, I blame whomever created the standard for American bicycles that the front brake is the left hand. This discourages signalling since the rear brake on the right hand is not meant for primary braking. I, too, used to have to juggle with signalling with my left hand, then pulling in my signal to slow down (especially on a downhill), then signal again, etc. That's why I switched my brakes to be like my motorcycle: front brake = right hand. Now it's a lot easier to signal and slow down at the same time.
Roughstuff
05-25-06, 10:27 PM
If you cannot operate your vehicle with only one hand then you do not have enough skill to drive/ride and shouldn't be on the road. And you apparently have never drive stick-shift since you need to downshift as you enter a turn. That requires the left hand on the wheel and the right hand on the stick.
But Mac I never said 'couldn't operate a vehicle with one hand.' I merely pointed out that with a bicycle, you are removing one hand from the steering mechanism at the very moment you need it the most. That was the whole point of having turn signals installed near the steering wheel in cars, trucks, and other vehicles. Furthermore, as others have pointed out, when you remove your hand to signal you now have only one hand to brake with (the right, rear, if you are a stickler for using the correct hand); in addition, you are now poorly balanced (with only one hand on the bars) should you need to slam your brake/stop suddenly.
Thanks for the comments on the stick shift though, that made sense. Still,
first: your hand is very close to the wheel in any case, not stuck out into the stratosphere, like it is with a hand signal. And thank power steering for making it easy (esp for women drivers) to turn the wheel with one hand...
second: you do not limit your ability to brake or clutch, (controlled with your foot), which IS the case with a bicycle.
The question is not whether hand signals work in the BEST CASE, its whether they work in the WORST case...they don't. They make you more vulnerable at the worst possible moment. Riding down a rural road with a wide shoulder on a sunny day, you can stick both your hands in your pockets and sniff the daisies. Turning left or right at a busy intersection, I want every ounce of braking power and balance, which means both hands on the bars, holding my brake levers.
roughstuff
The question is not whether hand signals work in the BEST CASE, its whether they work in the WORST case...they don't. Turning left or right at a busy intersection, I want every ounce of braking power and balance, which means both hands on the bars, holding my brake levers.
Yes, the operator of a bicycle may feel more comfortable with both hands on the handlebars, but it is a false feeling. If motorists do not know your intentions, especially at right-turn-only lanes, they may assume you are going straight and will not be ready when you change directions. That's the whole point of signalling.
I'd say that if a bicyclist is concerned with handling his bike and signalling, then he is signalling too late. I throw out the hand signal well before I approach the intersection so I have time to merge and flow with traffic as I approach the intersection. The last thing you want to do is fight with traffic near the intersection, and on top of that deal with bike lanes ending, right-turn-only lanes, pedestrians, etc.
second: you do not limit your ability to brake or clutch, (controlled with your foot), which IS the case with a bicycle.
On a bicycle, all you really need is your front brake (on the right hand). Even on my loaded touring bike, I only need my front brake to stop (granted I used brand new KoolStop shoes for greater braking power). A motorcycle, however, can utilize the added benefit of a rear brake.
Helmet Head
05-25-06, 10:56 PM
About 3/4 of your braking power comes from the front brake, which is usually plenty.
I find a look back over the shoulder in the relevant direction is usually all that is required to make it clear which way I'm turning. But learning to ride with one hand is important, among other basic bike handling skills.
Bekologist
05-25-06, 11:12 PM
so, does the look SERVE as the signal? are you sure you are clearly signalling your intentions? how does that type of lane signalling shoulder check differ from the lane check shoulder check?
do you throw in a eyebrow waggle when you actually intend to change lanes, and a ear wiggle when you are just checking roadway conditions in your 360?
Helmet Head
05-26-06, 01:03 AM
so, does the look SERVE as the signal? are you sure you are clearly signalling your intentions?
Trust, but verify. I look back, they yield, I merge.
About 3/4 of your braking power comes from the front brake, which is usually plenty.
I find a look back over the shoulder in the relevant direction is usually all that is required to make it clear which way I'm turning. But learning to ride with one hand is important, among other basic bike handling skills.
I don't know where you ride, but around here you could be made out of flashing yellow lights and wearing a halo and people simply would not see you on a bike. I would never, ever depend on a head bob to signal a lane change. That sounds like a sure way to get smacked.
Years ago I took a motorcycle safety course and one of the first things that was drilled into us was to always assume that drivers don't see you. Eye contact doesn't mean squat, they will look right through you.
Az
Bingo, Bingo, Bingo. Not only have you mentioned all the reason why hand signals are impractical for bicycles, you have highlighted why they are impractical for any road user...bicycle, vehicle, truck, bus, whatever. I might add the final nail in the coffin of hand signals is they require you to remove your hands from the steering mechanism at the very moment you need it the most!!!
Most vehicles (sigh...here we go again) now have signal lights in the rear, front, and on the door mirrors so that as many roadway users as possible can see how the vehicle is turning. I'll bet they'll add them to the rear windshield (much like brake lights on newer vehicles) soon, as well, so that even cars more than one behind the turning vehicle can see them.
I guess I need to stop riding my old motorcycles as they aren't vehicles either by your definition. I've been using hand signals on them for years, with absolutely no problem steering or braking. All it takes is the ability to think ahead and a small amount of dexterity.
This ain't rocket surgery guys.
Az
I-Like-To-Bike
05-26-06, 06:22 AM
I don't know where you ride, but around here you could be made out of flashing yellow lights and wearing a halo and people simply would not see you on a bike. I would never, ever depend on a head bob to signal a lane change. That sounds like a sure way to get smacked.
Years ago I took a motorcycle safety course and one of the first things that was drilled into us was to always assume that drivers don't see you. Eye contact doesn't mean squat, they will look right through you.
AZ is 100% correct about the value of head nodding and bobbing as a reliable signaling device for cyclists. Only a deluded head case would rely on such a method to communicate his intentions to a typical motorist.
The fact that motorists WILL look right through a two wheeler is why I gave up on motorcycles over 30 years ago. I could deal with the issue at bicycle speeds but not at motorcycle speeds. Every motorcycle ride was becoming a hair raising ride of Russian Roulette, wondering which motorist was going to pull out from a stop sign or make a left right in front of me.
I-Like-To-Bike
05-26-06, 06:25 AM
Trust, but verify.
And a penny in time saves nine.
Bekologist
05-26-06, 06:51 AM
"Don't trust, yield anyway."
I still fail to see how a lane change shoulder check is different than a situational awareness shoulder check. I think there is no clarity of signal in this, unless an ear wiggle or an eyebrow waggle is thrown in to help the drivers distinguish the two.
Bekologist
05-26-06, 06:53 AM
I look back, they yield, I merge. PSYCHIC SIGNALLING, SEE, it works!!!
I don't know where you ride, but around here you could be made out of flashing yellow lights and wearing a halo and people simply would not see you on a bike. If that's the reality, I doubt a little hand signal would change anything.
I personally have no problem with signalling on a bike, however one must understand there is a big difference between, say, a car signal and a bike signal. Car drivers have it so much easier. Their brakes aren't even operated by their hands. And they DON'T have to take a hand of a steering wheel to turn on a turn signal - they just flick a finger (at least that's how it is in the cars I've been in). Anyway, they can turn on their turn signal 100' or so before an intersection with a little flick and forget about it: it'll stay on for as long as it's needed and turn itself off once the turn is completed. They are communicating their intention to anybody who bothers to look.
With bikes, however, you usually can't afford to be riding with your hand sticking for a minute and keep signalling until the move is complete. Your signal is going to be pretty quick and it's not really to communicate with the whole world (people can't all be looking at you just when you're signalling) so much as with one specific road user (e.g. someone behind you in the adjacent lane). Hence the importance of eye contact: for one thing, you have to know the person is actually looking at you as you're making your signal. Once you know he is, a quick signal and you can quickly return the hand to the handlebars for steering, braking, honking and what not. :D
If there is no one who has to take my actions into account I often don't signal. The world at largre isn't going to notice my brief signal anyway, so what's the purpose? To give your arms a little exercise? :D
Roughstuff
05-26-06, 08:06 AM
I guess I need to stop riding my old motorcycles as they aren't vehicles either by your definition. ...
Az
Thats right. Get off your old motos (are they vintage, by the way?) and get onto a real non-vehicle vehicle! :)
roughstuff
Roughstuff
05-26-06, 08:09 AM
I personally have no problem with signalling on a bike, however one must understand there is a big difference between, say, a car signal and a bike signal. Car drivers have it so much easier. Their brakes aren't even operated by their hands. And they DON'T have to take a hand of a steering wheel to turn on a turn signal - they just flick a finger (at least that's how it is in the cars I've been in). Anyway, they can turn on their turn signal 100' or so before an intersection with a little flick and forget about it: it'll stay on for as long as it's needed and turn itself off once the turn is completed. They are communicating their intention to anybody who bothers to look.
With bikes, however, you usually can't afford to be riding with your hand sticking for a minute and keep signalling until the move is complete. Your signal is going to be pretty quick and it's not really to communicate with the whole world (people can't all be looking at you just when you're signalling) so much as with one specific road user (e.g. someone behind you in the adjacent lane). Hence the importance of eye contact: for one thing, you have to know the person is actually looking at you as you're making your signal. Once you know he is, a quick signal and you can quickly return the hand to the handlebars for steering, braking, honking and what not. :D
:D
Again...EXACTLY and very well said. Your comments are also why newer vehicles are installing signal lights on the mirrors and on the rear dashboard, so that drivers on all sides can see what you are doing (or thinking of doing). Compare that with the fly-by-night signaling you might do on a bike when you turn.
roughstuff
beatle bailey
05-26-06, 08:13 AM
Mostly it's a learned skill and planning ahead. It's also perfectly fine to signal a right turn with your right arm straight out.
I wouldn't sweat it too much since most drivers don't know what the hand signals mean, and very few are paying any attention to you anyway. Hand signals are mostly just a courtesy.
Az
Since when is it O.K. to signal with your RIGHT hand and arm???? That's just nuts.
Bekologist
05-26-06, 09:04 AM
either arm, just point and shoot! point and shoot! like this..... "I'm going THERE!"
a shoulder check is NOT a signal to change lanes. maybe psychic powers or the aforementioned earwiggles (or was it eyebrow waggles?) to make it clearer to the drivers?
I use an advanced "two fingered tickle" to get temporary greater lane clearance, and it seems to work for me-
but its an advanced tickle technique :) so i'm not going to recommend it to just anyone, but provides less ambiguity than waving your head around like a bobble head.
sggoodri
05-26-06, 09:39 AM
a shoulder check is NOT a signal to change lanes. maybe psychic powers or the aforementioned earwiggles (or was it eyebrow waggles?) to make it clearer to the drivers?
I think a deliberate-looking look back at another driver is useful even though it's not a guarantee. As we've all found out, there are no guarantees that drivers will understand or respect any signal no matter how obvious.
I've watched enough drivers notice my look back and reduce speed to let me in front of them that I feel it's useful as a signal. Sometimes I follow this with a hand signal but if they've already made it clear that its safe to move over then I really don't need to, and often don't bother, because the point has already been made.
So let's say that in 30% of the situations where I need a driver to slow down to let me over, a head turn combined with positioning is enough. That means I don't have to take my hands off the bars in 30% of these situations. I almost always look to spot the size of traffic gaps before bothering to signal, so after the look fails that's when I signal. About 50% of the drivers who see this signal (the 70% who didn't respond just to the head turn and positioning) will let me in if they can and the initial speed differential is low. That leaves 35% where the first car doesn't let me in. Then I wait for the next car. I have a 65% chance of getting him to let me over. I have over a 95% chance of getting over by the third car or sooner. Oftentimes I find that the following driver saw the hand signal I made to an earlier driver, and so I don't have to repeat it; since I'm continuing to look back he knows I still have the same intent.
-Steve Goodridge
Bekologist
05-26-06, 09:49 AM
alll that math is making my head hurt, and may interfere with a cyclists's psychic driver communication skills, steve. do you do that fancy math while you're riding, a little exercise in multitasking? how do you ascertain the %70 percent of the time an insoucient head bobble isn't going to work?
I like to whistle reggae tunes, direct traffic to my intents, and wiggle my fingers like I'm riding circles around nubians at a pool party....
I refuse to signal anymore; the last time I signalled a right turn a cager thought I was flipping him the bird!
Most cyclists don't signal right turns, but if you do, you can try signaling them with your right arm straight out.
Since when is it O.K. to signal with your RIGHT hand and arm???? That's just nuts.
Depends on the state. Here right arm for right turn is legal and encouraged. It makes sense. Left arm signals were developed for cars, where you can't stick the right arm out the other side. I've tried both just for giggles, and the left arm crooked and pointed up confuses people. They have to think back to what they were taught in the third grade. Right arm is intuitive, they know exactly what I mean.
Helmet Head
05-26-06, 02:11 PM
I don't know where you ride, but around here you could be made out of flashing yellow lights and wearing a halo and people simply would not see you on a bike. I would never, ever depend on a head bob to signal a lane change. That sounds like a sure way to get smacked.
Years ago I took a motorcycle safety course and one of the first things that was drilled into us was to always assume that drivers don't see you. Eye contact doesn't mean squat, they will look right through you.
Az
What part of but verify in "trust but verify" do so many of you seem to have trouble understanding?
I never "rely" on a look back alone. I rely on a look back coupled with seeing the motorist obviously yield the right of way to me before I move in front of him. Duh.
Once they've made it obvious that they know what I want to do (merge left), and have yielded the ROW to me, what's the point of taking my arm off the bars to redundantly signal an intent that is already known and acknowledged? Instead, I'm already merging...
CMcMahon
05-26-06, 02:12 PM
Hand signals are discriminatory towards parapalegics.
Helmet Head
05-26-06, 02:23 PM
alll that math is making my head hurt, and may interfere with a cyclists's psychic driver communication skills, steve. do you do that fancy math while you're riding, a little exercise in multitasking? how do you ascertain the %70 percent of the time an insoucient head bobble isn't going to work?
I like to whistle reggae tunes, direct traffic to my intents, and wiggle my fingers like I'm riding circles around nubians at a pool party....
Once again your muddled thinking alarms me.
I've seen you write %X instead of X% in the past, thinking it was a typo, but you seem to do this consistently. It's "70%" or "70 percent", not "%70 percent".
Anyway, whether it's 70% or 60% or 90% or 10% doesn't matter. What matters is what happens each time you look back before merging left. IF there is no one there, or whoever is there yields to you (makes it obvious that they are letting you in, like by slowing down and waving while mouthing, "go ahead, go ahead, ...), THEN it's one of those times that you probably don't have to bother with a hand signal. If they don't, or you're not sure, then use the hand signal. Simple.
I-Like-To-Bike
05-26-06, 02:30 PM
What part of but verify in "trust but verify" do so many of you seem to have trouble understanding?
I like scatter-brained cliches too. How about - A stitch saved is a penny earned? I just wouldn't call it useful advice
chipcom
05-26-06, 04:34 PM
I like scatter-brained cliches too. How about - A stitch saved is a penny earned? I just wouldn't call it useful advice
Actually I get a kick out of that particular old Ronnie Reaganism, I've used it often in BF - seems I am rubbing off on HH rather than his hopes for the reverse. Next thing you know he'll be including my old 10 percent theory in his VC manifesto!
Bekologist
05-26-06, 11:20 PM
i'm confused. is the ear waggling used in lieu of the hand signals, or in addition to? What if the driver is giving YOU a hand signal of their own? Do you do the 'cheek raise, toe twitch' manuver in front of these motorists?
and i'm not concerned AT ALL with YOUR armchair riding skills, mr.head. You continually fail to impress me with those ersatz 'notions' you orchestrate via panglossian imaginings in the utopian land of make believe you bike around. You've done enough to damage your reputation-
I'm asking steve G if HIS situational awareness shoulder checks are in some way different than his lane change shoulder checks, how he expects the drivers to distinguish the difference, and asked him if he does fancy math like that in traffic- not you, head.
Bekologist
05-27-06, 12:20 AM
Once again your muddled thinking alarms me.
I've seen you write %X instead of X% in the past, thinking it was a typo, but you seem to do this consistently. It's "70%" or "70 percent", not "%70 percent".
hey, mr head, lay off. steve G mentioned all the fancy math he's prattling on about his rations of signals, ear waggles, and butt waves, not me. He brought up %70 percent.
and you know what, head? I am using a redundant percent symbol as a writers affection. I'm fully aware of the redundancy. I used to be editor-in-chief of an ad driven 'neighborhood' newspaper with 15,000 copy print runs. I'm familiar with Strunk and White and the Chicago school and general style guidelines.
my redundancy is a deliberate writers affection. thanks for letting it trip you up.
So, how are these lane signalling head bobbles different from the 360 situation awareness shoulder check, Steve G, and how do you do all that abstract math in traffic? Does it intefere with when you need to do a fancy ear wiggle if the shoulder check isn't sufficient?
i like the point and shoot method myself.
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