Living Car Free - Limiting factors, Re: Car free lifestyle

there is a pannier designed to carry suits. Do a search on the commutting forum, I know I've seen references to it there. I don't own it (when I have to wear a suit I take the bus that day). But there's someone in downtown Philly with it cause I've seen it on their bike.

Also, don't think you *have to* bike everywhere. Use the bike as an option. Another option is taking the local train/bus/trolley to your destination. Or walking. Or a combonation of all three. Or even renting a car. Many cities have "flexcar" options. in Philly here it's phillycarshare.org. If only they had a car available in my neighborhood, I'd lose the car.

If I had to wear a suit every day I wouldn't drive a car. I would throw myself in front of a car! :D

Seriously, you might very well be able to pack a suit in a back pack, though a large messenger bag sould probably be much better. As Tuckerton said, garment bag panniers would be even better. And the suggestion to search the Commuter forum was excellent. If your search is negative, start a thread there with your question. Those people are great with the technical advice.

Roody, I wouldn't put a suit in a messenger bag, or roll it up. I would assume one needs to look "professional" (ie; suit w/no wrinkles, etc etc). What better way to prove to the cagers that you can bike, bus, walk, etc and still look as good as the guy (or girl) who drives into work every day. Which furthers the point that carfree isn't just for "low wage" workers or "unemployed" or whatever other stereotypes there are. Let's OPEN doors, not close them!!!

Sanity. I need to get out of town to stay sane. I live in yuppieville and find it intolerable. I have talked with other grad students that don't own cars and they have the same cabin fever feeling.

I also need to do 80+ mile round trips with time sensitive samples for grad school. It's not required, but it makes my research go much quicker. I'll also need to do a 60 mile round trip to a different campus to take a few classes, although I might spend the hour plus on the bus each way (I can't read or nap on a bus).

A $400 round trip airline ticket is more than what it costs to have a motorcycle sit in my front yard for a year (insurance and depreciation), plus I absolutely love it and the 60+mpg is too good to let go. It's helped my social life (being able to meet friends and help people that live ouside of bicycling range), my sanity (my work schedule makes it better to take long weekends as vacations, which isn't worth a plane ticket), and it's cheaper than renting a car when I need it since I am under 25. Some consider me car-free, some don't. Motor = yes Roll cage, AC, stereo, and environmental protection = no

I've never had a car, so I can only compare motorfree to motor/bicycling and I'd say I'm happy to have one with a motor. If I had to pay outrageous amounts for parking I might reconsider though (parking is free at all of the places I have lived, any place where you have to pay extra for parking is probably in a big enough city that I'd hate it anyway).

Oh great. Now, to go along with the car apologists, we have us a motorcycle fanatic.
:rolleyes:

Oh great. Now, to go along with the car apologists, we have us a motorcycle fanatic.
:rolleyes:Yeah, but that's still technically carfree, isn't it?

Oh great. Now, to go along with the car apologists, we have us a motorcycle fanatic.
:rolleyes:
Damn skippy! It's cheaper and more effective than therapy :). Plus my whole 4 day vacation in March was less than what it would have cost to rent a car for that period.

Roody, I wouldn't put a suit in a messenger bag, or roll it up. I would assume one needs to look "professional" (ie; suit w/no wrinkles, etc etc). What better way to prove to the cagers that you can bike, bus, walk, etc and still look as good as the guy (or girl) who drives into work every day. Which furthers the point that carfree isn't just for "low wage" workers or "unemployed" or whatever other stereotypes there are. Let's OPEN doors, not close them!!!

I totally agree about the wage thing. I like to ride to work and other places for many selfish reasons, but I also am mindful of the other beneficial effects of doing so that are totally unrelated to my economic status.

In Lauren's defense, she probably gets better mileage than a lot of hybrid owners. Also, I'm not completely "anti-car," some people need them, the way our civilization is built around motor vehicles. A crotch-rocket is preferable over a Hummer, as far as I'm concerned.

What about range? I find that anything over 20 miles just isn't practical; it takes too long, and you're all sweaty when you get there. More than 20 miles, I take the bus, or sail there, or just use the phone. (No motors for me at all, thank you.) How far do the rest of you venture on a bicycle?

I get between 60 and 70 mpg. usually 63ish. I have the stock pipes so it's one of the quietest motorcycles out there, best mileage, lightest (about 360 lbs wet), cheapest (purchase and insurance, do all my own maintenance), and the only 250 that's comfortable on the highway. As health problems made bicycling more difficult it was my best option and the utter flickability just makes me smile thinking about it.

Besides the things already mentioned- time, weight- the biggest factor for me is clothes. I don't always have to be in a suit at work, but sometimes I do, and I can't just shove the suit into a backpack, can I? How do you get to work on a bike without ending up in clothes that look like you slept in them? As absurd as it sounds, this is the biggest problem for me.

It helps to have a bike with a vertical riding position and chainguard -- European commuter or cruiser. I take offf my jacket, roll it, and put it on the rack on hot days. Look at it this way. People walk in suits all the time. Cycling requires less energy than walking, and there is a breeze to cool you off. Obviously, if work is fifteen miles away, this wou't apply.

Paul

As health problems made bicycling more difficult

Out of curiosity, what kind of health problems?

I get between 60 and 70 mpg. usually 63ish. I have the stock pipes so it's one of the quietest motorcycles out there, best mileage, lightest (about 360 lbs wet), cheapest (purchase and insurance, do all my own maintenance), and the only 250 that's comfortable on the highway. As health problems made bicycling more difficult it was my best option and the utter flickability just makes me smile thinking about it.
YAWN

Out of curiosity, what kind of health problems?
Muscle soreness and I fatigue easily and take longer to recover. Found out it was caused by anemia and probably vitamin deficency from malabsorbtion (caused by autoimmune destruction of my intestines caused by wheat).

I was also trying to adjust the dose of y thyroid meds at the time, so over 2 months I would go from taking the right amount to not enough and then start all over again (I've had to change my dose more in a year than my mother has in decades lucky me my body self destructs at an alarming rate).

I still need to be tested for adrenal problems, but through multiple miscommunications with my doctor I won't be able to get that done until August.

All of this happening all at once can make you pretty depressed too, so a day or weekend out of town helped me tremendously (renting a car was too expensive since I am under 25). It's also good since finding a restaurant that can properly accomodate my allergies (wheat, barley, rye, spelt, and oats) is pretty difficult so if I want to eat out being able to go a few towns over makes it much easier. Even something as simple as malt flavor in an ingredient in part of the meal can cause problems. The last time I ate out I was tired and disoriented for a few days because the teaspoon or so of miso DID have wheat in it (grrrrr).

YAWN
I hope one day you start feeling like you can barely walk to work, fall asleep every few hours, think you are going to crap out your intestines from some undiagnosed health problem, and your co-workers all ask you if you have cancer and are going to die because you look like ****. Then the specialist you need to see is 40 miles away, or maybe several hundred (because this is all weirder crap than your doctor has ever seen).

Then you will understand how wonderful motorized transportation is.

I hope one day you start feeling like you can barely walk to work, fall asleep every few hours, think you are going to crap out your intestines from some undiagnosed health problem, and your co-workers all ask you if you have cancer and are going to die because you look like ****. Then the specialist you need to see is 40 miles away, or maybe several hundred (because this is all weirder crap than your doctor has ever seen).

Celiac's Disease? My partner was diagnosed with that last winter, after bouncing around from doctor to doctor for most of a year. Eventually it was a GP at a local clinic who told him, "You know, it could till be celiac even if the blood test doesn't show it. Why don't you go on a gluten-free diet for a few months?" WTF didn't anyone else say that?!?



Then you will understand how wonderful motorized transportation is.

Hey, we're car-free. Your story just illustrates the problems of a car-centric culture and the resulting problems.

Car-free != no motor, hey! I'm glad Lauren is opting to at least use a motorcycle/scooter instead of using a car considering her circumstances! There are ALOT of perfectly healthy people who couldnt even be bothered to walk three blocks to the supermarket, let alone, bike everywhere.

The barrier I had to going car free was the distance to work a 100 mile round trip. I have made a commitment to change this by buying in the town and in a position that should be bike friendly(hoping to get the wife into car free as well.The only hiccup is that I live in a regional centre 500 miles away from our state capital city and it is just not feasable to take the bus there for a holiday( as I usually take 4 or 5 bikes to ride around on while I am there). I plan and will use the bike for everything that I need . I have even bought a older cheap mountain bike to use as the grocery bike with my BoB trailer.Something that wont give me a heart attack if it gets stolen.

Celiac's Disease? My partner was diagnosed with that last winter, after bouncing around from doctor to doctor for most of a year. Eventually it was a GP at a local clinic who told him, "You know, it could till be celiac even if the blood test doesn't show it. Why don't you go on a gluten-free diet for a few months?" WTF didn't anyone else say that?!?

Hey, we're car-free. Your story just illustrates the problems of a car-centric culture and the resulting problems.
Yup, celiac. Gotta love mysterious symptoms and how it presents so differently that most doctors don't have the slightest clue what it is. I asked to be tested for it after my doctor ran out of ideas. It's not the end of my problems, but going wheat/barley/rye/oat/spelt free has made a difference.

I view Ryuu (yes, it's the first bike I've named) as a consolation prize. Helps make up for how much the rest of my life sucks. I plan to ride him until he dies, then swap the motor and do it again :). I love to tinker and play mechanic, so he fills that need too. :love:

Two wheels good, four wheels bad.

Yup, celiac. Gotta love mysterious symptoms and how it presents so differently that most doctors don't have the slightest clue what it is. I asked to be tested for it after my doctor ran out of ideas. It's not the end of my problems, but going wheat/barley/rye/oat/spelt free has made a difference.

In Rob's case it was either misdiagnosed as IBS since childhood, or he has IBS on top of Celiac's. Oh what fun....

In Rob's case it was either misdiagnosed as IBS since childhood, or he has IBS on top of Celiac's. Oh what fun....
Yup most are misdiagnosed as IBS or stressed/depressed/hypochondriac (lucky me).

single occupants in cars---hee hee, in the US? probably 90% or more LOL

I went on a research trip from Kitchener to Toronto (about 100km) last week and out of curiousity I watched all the cars that passed the bus I was on. The posted 90% figure of the number of single-occupant vehicles on the way to TO was, if anything, a conservative estimate.

What do you see as some of the limiting factors that stack up against going car free?

It requires a social, philosophical, and physical challenge to a society that values: status, instant gratification and cable TV.

On a typical 2 or 4 lane city street, how many cars have single occupants travelling less than 10 kilometers?

That would be interesting to know.

I've seen quoted that the average occupancy of a car in the US is 1.3 (public transit NOT factored into that)

Since no car drives itself...thats a LOT of single occupancies to drag the average down that far.

I always thought an interesting number to see would be the miles per gallon per occupant of any given vehicle and the ratio of this to the miles per gallon per filled occupancy actually observed on the road.

SUV's do utterly suck as single-occupancy vehicles, but I wonder if all that engine power would give them an advantage over a minivan if both were seating the full number of people available.

When I need to take my kids out of our little town, I drive. When it is raining, and the kids are going I drive. The kids do ride with me around town most of the time.

SUV's do utterly suck as single-occupancy vehicles, but I wonder if all that engine power would give them an advantage over a minivan if both were seating the full number of people available.

what kind of advantage? In cars, the more horsepower, the worse the gas mileage, other things being equal--- up until the point where you're running the engine at nearly full throttle the whole time just to maintain a normal speed, e.g. an economy car with an 8HP engine.

Basically the only relevant difference between an SUV and a Minivan is that, in exchange for whatever offroad capability an SUV has, it needs to be larger (more air drag) and heavier (also bad for gas mileage) in order to have the same passenger capacity as a minivan or car. If an SUV is designed for towing (might have more horsepower) that will give the SUV even more of a disadvantage in terms of miles-per-gallon-per-passenger. (but also an advantage in miles-per-gallon-per-pound-of-cargo at full carrying/towing capacity)

What do you see as some of the limiting factors that stack up against going car free? Reasons why one must drive a car to get around; I can think of one, and that is a disability of some sort that makes cycling an impossibility. Sure there may be some sort of transit system that accommodates the disabled, but to be able to retain some sense of freedom you may rather drive in such a case instead of having to rely on public transit.

I don't think disability is necessarily as limiting as you seem to think. I'm having trouble thinking of any disabilities that prevent one from cycling that don't also disqualify one from driving a motor vehicle. If someone with a physical disability wants to ride a bicycle, there are often options. Someone without the use of their legs can use a handcycle. Someone with balance problems or limited cardiovacular capacity can use an adult tricycle. Even a blind person can ride as the stoker on a tandem bicycle.