Commuting - Nasty Crash - "not my fault" says the driver

Greetings All,

Hope you all are in better shape than this fat biker.

Riding home, last Thursday pm, JERK-in-a-Porsche made a left turn in front of me, went over the bars, landed hard. One or more good samaritans called 911 bringing EMT and cop. Back Board, loaded into the ambulance for a ride to Stanford Medical Center's ER.

CT scan (concussion - unconcious), xray, stitches, morphine... Great care! Have not seen the bill yet.

Talked to the cop on scene yesterday, very helpful. He found the car, thanks to witness input. The driver claims it's not his fault, since I did not crash into him. The driver thinks I overreacted with the brakes, causing the crash. I should have the police report next week.

Only damage to the bike seems to be bent handlebars. The bike is at my LBS for evaluation.

fat biker damage;
raspberries the size of oranges on both knees
nasty bruise, left wrist (xray negative)
aforementioned concussion
left shoulder bruised, scraped and sore as hell
assorted other aches and pains - neck, back, shoulder

ruined my last pair of Vuarnet sunglasses
new helmet
paramedic cut off my jersey
bent handlebar

Yesterday was "stitches out day", will make appointment with my regular doc in a couple of weeks for comprehensive follow-up and hopefully some good ole' physical therapy to get rid of these aches and pains.

I am injured and sore, but more than that really pissed of at this guy's attitude.

So, I drive my car, make a turn and a human on a bicycle goes down in a heap on the pavement, but since I did not have contact, I go about my business, picking up the wife at work.

Note to self; shop for a personal injury attorney.

This will not stop me from commuting. Already had the talk with my wife that life is dangerous...

fat biker

While making a left turn, the car failed to yield to oncoming traffic, causing an accident. Case closed.

Note to self; shop for a personal injury attorney

Do it NOW.....since they have the guy, there's no searching. I'm not kidding. Especially if you have little/no health insurance &/or your car insurance won't cover you.

I had a crash a few weeks ago, went over the handlebars, and my injuries seemed to be less than yours, although the bike was hurt more :)

Had the talk with the wife. I suffered a heart attach 4 years ago, so part of why I ride is to get regular exercise so that I will not repeat. Explained to my wife that more people die in a Lay-Z-Boy, with the TV remote and a bag of potatoe chips than die on bikes - so I would play it safe and continue to commute.

She was half convinced (which I think means that she would accept the Lay-Z-Boy but no remote or snack food).

Talk to the Porche driver.

Greetings All,


Riding home, last Thursday pm, JERK-in-a-Porsche made a left turn in front of me,


A Porsche?

You should have hit it. I bet he would've stopped then.


Hope your recovery goes well

Just a side question: Why did you go over your handlebars on a non-contact emergency-braking incident? This raises a question to me about your braking technique. You should be able to make an emergency stop with your bike, possibly laying it down of course, without going over the handlebars. It's way too dangerous to do that, to your head and neck.

This doesn't change the culpability of the driver, but it's a note to you for the future.

I'm a firm believer of hitting whoever caused the accident rather than avoiding them and crashing into god knows what.

I'm with Flak. It does not pay to try to avoid the pedestrian that lurches in front of you. The alternative landings are almost always not as soft.

Good luck with your recovery. Make him pay!

Porsche driver--->probably a Nazi--->make him pay!

Seriously, I have had a couple of personal injuries that I was not responsible for, yet did not sue for damages, or accepted a token amount. Boy was I wrong!!! At 49, those injuries have come back to haunt me, and cost me a lot of cash. Even if you get all you can while you can, it won't be enough.

Trust me on this.

Deaconbam

I'm a firm believer of hitting whoever caused the accident rather than avoiding them and crashing into god knows what.

This sort of thinking is absurd. You did the right thing to avoid the moving object at all costs. The velocity of you impacting the ground is less than the relative velocity of having a head on. Also, you could have been impaled on a mirror, pulled under a wheel, clothes, arm, leg caught in a wheel well.

Also, its easy for some to say you should have laid the bike down. In reality, you just usually grab brakes as hard as you can to stop.

Again, hitting a moving object when you could miss it is absurd.

Just a side question: Why did you go over your handlebars on a non-contact emergency-braking incident? This raises a question to me about your braking technique. You should be able to make an emergency stop with your bike, possibly laying it down of course, without going over the handlebars. It's way too dangerous to do that, to your head and neck.

This doesn't change the culpability of the driver, but it's a note to you for the future.

and how exactly do you practice such a technique? Specifically, without losing skin while practicing? I'm sorry but I have a hard time believing that, in the nanosecond you have to make decision to brake or hit the car, that you can realize that you're going over the handlebars so you better lay it down instead. No matter how hard you practice, there's always a chance someone will right hook/turn in front of you when its too late and you won't be able to stop in time without either hitting the car, going over the handlebars and if you're lucky sliding out. The only way to avoid this is to ride real slow and then you might as well be walking.

Dude, you OWN this guy now. As mentioned above, dude failed to yield to oncoming traffic, end of story. Go after him, not out of revenge but to make-up for the harm he did.

get some rest, and ride on my friend..

and how exactly do you practice such a technique? Specifically, without losing skin while practicing? I'm sorry but I have a hard time believing that, in the nanosecond you have to make decision to brake or hit the car, that you can realize that you're going over the handlebars so you better lay it down instead. No matter how hard you practice, there's always a chance someone will right hook/turn in front of you when its too late and you won't be able to stop in time without either hitting the car, going over the handlebars and if you're lucky sliding out. The only way to avoid this is to ride real slow and then you might as well be walking.
Practice is exactly how one develops instincts to quick turn or stop hard without going over.
Keep practicing quicker and harder stops from lower speeds, learn the tipping point of ones bike. Learn to balance front to back. Practice some hard stop with intentionally lifting rear wheel (by leaning forward) (you can do this on grass) Then do same stops, but with weight shifted back. Then do the same at higher speeds. Over and over again. Get a partner to yell random stop times (or jump toward you)
The whole idea is you want to develop the instinct to lean back and brake just hard enough to stop without going over, not the instinct to grab brakes as hard as possible.
Yes it is easier said than practiced. (You may find the hardest part is repeatedly getting back up to 20mph+, just to stop again, talk about tiring) Don't do this just for one session, but at regular intervals.
Also practice quick turns.
All this practice may not prevent going over or fully help you decide in split second when to grab brakes, when to turn or when to intentionally go down, but it will give you the instinct to know how quick you can stop, what it feels like etc. so you are better armed to sub[conscisoulsy make those split decisions.

Al

I think by law, you're allowed to blow up his car while it's in his garage. Or you could go after him and make him pay.

While making a left turn, the car failed to yield to oncoming traffic, causing an accident. Case closed

Very clear in the Florida state statutes that failure to yield during a left hand turn makes ANY acident your fault automaticly. I defended myself in court, all I needed was to quote that statute and I won.

As an extreme my mother was doing a U-turn at a green turn light, some punk kids in a mustang were speeding/racing and ran the red light and smashed into her. She got the ticket because she was making a left hand turn.....

Sounds from his comments like the driver knew you were there, so he cannot use the "I didn't see him" excuse. It sounds (to my non-expert self) like you would have pretty good case. Clearly his fault if he saw you and turned anyway.

That said, you can practice braking without injuring yourself. Find an empty parking lot and experiment with stopping using one brake, then the other, and both in various combinations. Brake gradually and note how the bike feels as you vary the application. When practicing with just the front brake, rise up off the seat and lean way back, to counteract the tendency of the weight of the bike and your body to rise up and forward, which is what leads to an "endo". Carefully build up to coming to a quick but safe emergency stop.

A nice demonstration of how the two brakes work differently is to stand beside the bike and push it forward while applying each brake. With just the back brake, you'll still be able to drag your bike forward even with the back wheel locked, showing that the back brake by itself is not very effective. (And in fact, used by itself, can start a skid.) But with the front brake by itself, the frame will very easily start lifting off the ground! So both together are usually recommended, starting with the back and applying the front as needed.

I hope that helps. Some of that I just learned in a bike safety instructor's course I took last month. You can probably find more by Googling for something like "bicycle braking technique". Sheldon Brown particularly has a very good article (http://sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html) on this, and he feels that front brake alone is actually best for emergency stops, since in a fast-stop situation the rear brake is almost useless anyway. In any case, rest assured that an endo is not unavoidable, and the avoidance techniques can be taught and practiced.

I had an endo about 4 years ago, the month after I started riding, but have not had one since. Not that I can necessarily credit practicing these techniques, since I only recently became consciously aware of them, but I hope that at least unconsciously I have improved. Another thing I think has improved is my vigilance. Did you see the car before he turned into you? Any clue he was going to turn? Could you try to establish eye contact? I am not trying to "blame the victim" (you) here, but pointing out that in a world where you can't rely on other people acting rationally, it's even more important to drive defensively, always expecting that someone will do something dumb at any moment, and not being surprised by it. Try to see things coming. Robert Hurst, in his book The Art of Urban Cycling, puts this very well and has been my biggest influence in this line of thought. He says something like "gather all the responsibilty that you can, hoard it, and use it more wisely than those around you." Good words to live by (literally)!

Hope that all helps! I'm glad you are not deterred, and best wishes for your recovery and future riding!

A Porsche?

You should have hit it. I bet he would've stopped then.


Hope your recovery goes well


haha yeah. "always cut off the person with the nicer car. they usually will let you go."

thats what my brother said to me when i was driving.

DEFINATELY practice emergency actions! With enough practice you'll do it out of reflex when it's needed. I used to practice hard braking and swerving on my motorcycle all the time. I still feel it saved my life when a car did the exact same move you described. Just use an open area and slowly work up to full braking, or swerving. Especially when using the front brake.

Thanks to all for the suggestions and encouragement.

I will work on my e-stops, promise.

Stitches came out of the chin yesterday, next doc move is to schedule an appointment with my regular md for a follow up. The aches & pains are all on board now, and I'm pretty uncomfortable most of the time, need to work on that pronto. Hopefully my doc will Rx physical therapy.

The bike is at the shop, will call today to request repairs to the bars and save the parts.

Should have the police report in hand early next week.

Shopping for a personal-injury attorney (think my niece knows a suitable one). Sure hope I can find one to take this case. As my dear departed neighbor Jim always said "Don't get mad, get even" and "Don't be difficult, with a little work, you can be impossible" R.I.P. Jim.

I figure when the guy drove away, leaving me in an unconcious heap on the pavement he charted his own course and I expect sealed his own fate.

Injuries aside, what I think pisses me off the most and I have the most difficulty understanding is how one human treats another human like that when there is no previous animosity one to the other. At the risk of attaching too much importance to my situation, kind of like giving all of your neighbors and the people in your community "the finger"

Jeff, fat biker

Shop? These lawyers are free for you. Get one right away. They are needed for documentation of all--like the condition of the bike, which you will get back before they can see and document properly. And for you--they will carefully and properly document your health.

The fact that the driver saw you is key. He's liable for personal damages. You will win this in court and help all of us in the process. Litigation is important.

Despite the stories, the vast majority of lawyers are legit.

I've gone over my handlebars before and never will again. I rely on the back brake and carefully use the front to help. I'm glad to hear you are going to practice emergency stops--that will help a lot.

My sympathies to you.

- Just because you didn't physically run into him most certainly does not make him not at fault.

- Was his turn signal on? Getting sworn statements early on from you and other witnesses can only help.

- He's gearing up for the lawsuit by denying *any* responsibility. Don't let him skate on this one, please.

I hope you recover fully. I had a similar incident, concussion, stitches on my face, etc, just now getting bills, almost $4000 total, insurance paid all but $350 of hospital bill. I don't know how much of $600 ambulance charge they will pay.
Good luck to you.

I think by law, you're allowed to blow up his car while it's in his garage. Or you could go after him and make him pay.


I think that may only work in NYC:D . Don't settle until you know your total costs Fat Biker. Hope you feel better soon.

Obviously the driver has fault for turning in front of you, and the situation is aggravated by him apparently leaving the scene. However in a civil action for damages there are also going to be issues of causation and comparative fault. The finder of fact may well conclude that you went over the handlebars due to overeaction or poor braking technique, and conclude the cause of your injuries were your braking technique, or at leas give you a percentage of comparitive fault.

And I do have to question why someone pulling in front of you causes you to endo. You can stop the bike faster, without flipping it, or laying it down, by 1) pushing your weight as far back as possible (butt over rear wheel), and 2) mdulating both brakes independently each to the verge of lockup.

I don't mean to be harsh, but if you choose to litigate your actions will also be scrutinized. If you don't have any lasting injury, and your bills are paid, you might want to just be thankful it wasn't worse and move on. There's a huge personal cost to litigation that most people don't consider before they choose to file suit.

and how exactly do you practice such a technique? Specifically, without losing skin while practicing? I'm sorry but I have a hard time believing that, in the nanosecond you have to make decision to brake or hit the car, that you can realize that you're going over the handlebars so you better lay it down instead.
In motorcycle safety classes you learn to, and practice, emergency stops. To the point of locking up the rear wheel and modulating the front brake and steering to stay up. No damage no harm. You do it on their bikes in the novice course. I have to admit it's a bit scary the first few times in the advanced course when you're doing it on your Harley, as I was. But it works. If you practice it enough it becomes very natural not to just grab the brakes full force. And to hit the rear brake first, staying under control without going over the bars. No, there is no good way to learn laying a bike down. Luckily in 30+ years riding I've never had to.

SB

My sympathies, and I hope you recover quickly and without any problems.

As for your case against the other driver, I am not sure you have such an open-and-shut case for damages. He didn't hit you. You fell off your bike to the ground. Were you going fast when you fell? You make it sound as if you were. Is it possible that you lost control because of your speed in approaching an intersection? Is it possible some other factor contributed to your loss of control when braking? Was there debris on the street surface? Was it raining? Was there a problem with your bicycle that contributed to the accident?

As satisfying as the anticipation of a claim against someone driving a Porsche must be (he's driving a Porsche, so therefore he must be both rich and a jerk;) ), you must know the brand of car involved is irrelevant, unless you wish to provide fodder for the counter-argument that you were distracted by the car.

Best get a competent lawyer to review your case, and the sooner the better. But lawyers aren't magicians.

In any case, best wishes that you get well.

hope you get enough to pay your medical bills, pay off your house, your cars, and buy a TI bike too! Oh, and take it on a european tour!

some people are just asses. unfortunantly that's the way it is...i hope you make this ass realize his mistake, and maybe in the end you'll get an apology from him? maybe that's too much to hope for. But defenantly the Titanium bike!

In the state of California, which I believe you are in, there are some good attorney's that represent bicyclists in these types of accidents. Go by your bike shop and pick up the free racing, bicycling and competition mags usually at the front (Performance has them) and you will find advertisements for attorney's to represent you. Had you been in a car and he caused the crash by failing to yield to oncomoing traffic and you had hit him. Guess what!! He is at fault.

Since you have a witness and hopefully have a license number, etc. on this guy then file a claim against his auto insurance. You don't even need an attorney to do that.

Had you been a motor vehicle maybe he would not have pulled out in front of you. But a bicycle - no problem. What arrogance!!!

Had you been a motor vehicle maybe he would not have pulled out in front of you. But a bicycle - no problem. What arrogance!!!

Was it truly arrogance, or was it ignorance and/or negligence? Just to be nitpicky, I'm going to vote for the latter. :D

While comparative negligence may be an issue if you get to court, a competent attorney should get you settled out of court. He'll take a percentage of the settlement as payment, and the driver should still be liable for his infraction in traffic court (fines, points, whatever). You're doing the right thing by shopping around. There are plenty of PI attorneys who aren't very good at what they do, and are just out to try to get money from defendants' insurance companies.