Touring - Sorta newbie with Q about bike choice

Hi All,

I'm planning on getting back into some fairly serious biking and I'm way out of touch with current technology. When I last rode triple cranks and six cog cassettes were just becoming available and I don't think anyone had combined them yet. Twelve and fifteen-speed bikes were "wow" items. :)

First, let me give you a little background on myself. I say I'm a "sorta newbie" because I used to ride quite actively (100-120 miles a week) but that was over twenty years ago. I was using a bottom-of-the line Schwinn that was a bit large for me (picked up second hand) but it was fun nonetheless. I also did a fair amount of backpacking in those days.

Then, I got married, raised kids, and piloted a desk -- i.e. your typical American couch potato for the last 20 years. In 1998 I had a massive heart attack that killed the front wall of my heart (hence, my username), and this past April I had a quintuple bypass. Since then I've been working out regularly (over an hour five days a week at medium resistance and a fast jogging pace on an elliptical glider) and I'm in better shape with better stamina than at any time since my mid twenties -- but, because of the irreversible damage to the heart muscle I can't reach the peak output of an undamaged person of similar age (46) and conditioning and never will be able to.

The elliptical glider is good exercise but it's boring as can be so I'm planning on getting a bike soon and spending a fair amount of time on it. I'll be doing a lot of fitness riding on streets and hard packed trails, quite a few two and three day camping tours, again on pavement and packed dirt and gravel, and maybe one or two longer credit-card tours over the next couple of years.

Because of budget and space constraints, I have to find a single bike that will be suitable for all of this for the next two to three years before I look at getting another bike.

I've pretty much ruled out a road touring bike on the basis of cost and the fact that 95% of my riding will be unloaded or very lightly loaded and probably 50% of it will be off pavement, though not in really rugged country.

So far, this is my plan, please tell me if it's reasonable and make suggestions for improvements. I'm looking at purchasing a TREK T7100 hybrid bike soon. I've chosen this model because it fits my price range for an immediate purchase, there is a TREK dealer five miles from where I work, and the frame geometry looks suitable -- i.e. it appears to have a long enough chain stay to handle rear panniers.

I'll put slightly narrower tires on it to leave clearance for fenders. I'll also put on a rear rack. I'll use it that way for fitness riding and two and three day camping trips through the spring and summer. When I get ready for a longer or more heavily loaded tour I'll replace the triple crank with one having a 22 or 24 tooth granny cog and possibly replace the MB style handlbar with a longer stem and dropped bar so I can still ride mostly upright but have a variety of hand positions and a lower posture for pulling on uphill grinds.

Finally, does anyone know if anybody makes a triple crank with a 22 or 24 tooth cog that is also compatible with a "standard" seven-speed chain? The ones I've seen with 22 or 24 tooth cogs are for a nine-speed chain, meaning I would have to replace the rear cassette and possibly the deraileur to change the gearing on the triple crank. Or is it acceptable to use the thinner cogs with a standard chain? It seems like the chain would wobble and be weakened, but maybe not?

Thanks for our input,
John

Hi, John,

There's nothing wrong with buying a hybrid to ease yourself back into cycling. The 7100 is a decent entry-level bike. And I can attest to the efficacy of cycling as a means of reversing heart disease.

The point where I'd begin to question your plan is where you start thinking about upgrading. At the point where you feel ready to move back to drop bars and higher performance, you'll realize that the 7100 isn't really the right platform. Changing a MTB style bike to drop bars involves replacing a lot of expensive parts, particularly the brake/shift levers. You could end up spending more than you paid for the bike to do the upgrade.

You'll probably do better just keeping the 7100 intact as a second bike and looking for a good touring bike (like a Trek 520 or, better, a Bruce Gordon BLT) for your longer trips.

But I wouldn't worry about it just yet. Buy your 7100 and just have a good time riding. Get more fit, more experienced, more comfortable and then start thinking about upgrades.

(After my third MI I bought a 7300 and rode around the loop in the park, walking up the hills. Now I own three bikes and commute 26 miles RT to work every day, doing over 5000 miles a year. Things will come when it's time for them.)

If you really, really want the bike you buy now to become a reliable touring bike in the future, I'd suggest setting your sights a little higher. But personally I think it's more important to just get a comfortable bike that's perfectly fit (that's critical!) and start accruing some miles while having as much fun as possible.


Good luck!
RichC

Hi Rich,

Thanks for the info. You're probably right about the touring bike later. I'll worry about that when the time comes.


Originally posted by Rich Clark
(After my third MI I bought a 7300 and rode around the loop in the park, walking up the hills. Now I own three bikes and commute 26 miles RT to work every day, doing over 5000 miles a year. Things will come when it's time for them.)


I really wish I could ride to work. Unfortunately, my commute is about 75 miles RT and there is no decent alternative to the Interstate for a third of it. :mad:

What I may begin doing though is hauling the bike to work with me and riding for an hour or so after work, thus missing the worst of the traffic for the drive home.

I live about five or six miles from the eastern trailhead of the twenty-mile Weatherford - Mineral Wells "rails to trails" trail here in Texas so I've got weekends covered for a while, anyway.

Thanks again,
John

Originally posted by HalfHearted
Hi All,

When I get ready for a longer or more heavily loaded tour I'll replace the triple crank with one having a 22 or 24 tooth granny cog and possibly replace the MB style handlbar with a longer stem and dropped bar so I can still ride mostly upright but have a variety of hand positions and a lower posture for pulling on uphill grinds.



Thanks for our input,
John I think you are kidding yourself here.Much easier to buy something that has the right crankset or repalceable chainrings and then just stick on a 22 or 24 tooth granny.A crank will likely requie a BB too. Changing to drop bars means new brake levers possibly not compatible with your brakes.shifters,bar and stem.your system is 7 speed and drop bar stuff is currently 9 speed(8 speed sora excepted).It gets expensive unless you opt for bar end shifters and possibly friction shifting..You will have saved nothing,probably spent more and and still end up with a big pile of comprimise as opposed to spending more on a better choice to start with.

Originally posted by HalfHearted
I really wish I could ride to work. Unfortunately, my commute is about 75 miles RT and there is no decent alternative to the Interstate for a third of it. :mad:

What I may begin doing though is hauling the bike to work with me and riding for an hour or so after work, thus missing the worst of the traffic for the drive home.


I know people who park 10 or 15 miles from work and ride the rest of the way; that can be especially advantageous to people who have to pay to park at city center, but even if that's not an issue you still get your miles while reducing your driving.

I also know people who sold their houses and moved just to be within more practical bike-commuting distance of their jobs. Extreme? Maybe, maybe not.

You're probably stronger-willed than I am. For me, commuting by bike forces me to get the exercise that I've otherwise always been too lazy to do. I can always find reasons to avoid the stationary bike and the treadmill, but I still have to go to work, and riding is much more fun than driving in Philadelphia rush-hour traffic!

RichC

Originally posted by pokey
I think you are kidding yourself here.Much easier to buy something that has the right crankset or repalceable chainrings and then just stick on a 22 or 24 tooth granny.A crank will likely requie a BB too. Changing to drop bars means new brake levers possibly not compatible with your brakes.shifters,bar and stem.your system is 7 speed and drop bar stuff is currently 9 speed(8 speed sora excepted).It gets expensive unless you opt for bar end shifters and possibly friction shifting..You will have saved nothing,probably spent more and and still end up with a big pile of comprimise as opposed to spending more on a better choice to start with.

Hi Pokey, thanks for the input. (BTW, this is long but please read all the way to the bottom (or skip there) as I have a specific question.)

The problem is I haven't seen any production bike in any price range that really meets my long term needs. All of the built-ups I've seen with a 22 or 24 tooth cog up front are strictly mountain bike jobs with chain stays too short for touring panniers, CGs a bit far aft for good roadability, and so on. I know once I start pulling hills with even a medium load I'm going to need grannies lower than most folks because no matter how much I train my heart will never be much above 50% capacity -- in fact, my cardiologist said he was really pleased and surprised that I was getting 48% during my last checkup in October. (For comparison purposes, the SS administration considers 40% an automatic total disability -- that's probably silly in an age when there are so many desk-pilot jobs around, but I can see it for manual labor type jobs.)

I don't mind spending a little more and I'm not opposed to a 9-speed rear. I think 9 gears in back are probably overkill, I need a good range of gears but don't know that I need that many intermediate steps. When I used to ride frequently I rarely used more than about four or maybe five of my ten gears. I often wished for a little bit lower gear and even a little bit higher gear, but I never really found a use for a lot of the intermediate ones. But, I'm not opposed to them other than as probably unneccesary. However, even if I went to a 7300 (which is about the limit of what I can afford this spring) the front group is still a 28 tooth and the largest rear cog is 32 as opposed to 34, making it even less suitable for my condition!

As for road touring bikes they are more expensive and even less suitable. A TREK 520, for example, has a 30 up front as the minimum cog and a 32 as the big cog in back. That makes it even less suitable for me than the 7300!

I guess what I really need is a hybrid frame but with real MB drivetrain (just for the low granny gears, basically). I.e. something like a 7100 frame with 6700 drivetrain. I figure the only way I'm going to get there on my budget is to start with the hybrid frame and upgrade components as I can, even though I know that's more expensive in the long run. I can budget a few hundred for a bike this spring, and another few hundred for upgrades over the next year or so much more easily than I can drop a grand or more all at once.

All that brings me to my specific question. Do any of you know if a "1997ish" TREK 7000 frame is substantially similar, especially in geometry, to the frame used on the current 7100-7300 series bikes? If so, how much is such a frame (with fork and headset, supposedly NOS, stripped for parts and stored in a garage since) worth? I'm thinking I could buy the frame, and build up exactly the drivetrain, bars, wheels, etc that I want. I know it would cost more than buying a 7100, but possibly not much more than buying a 7300, right?

Thanks for your patience and help,
John

Originally posted by Rich Clark
You're probably stronger-willed than I am. For me, commuting by bike forces me to get the exercise that I've otherwise always been too lazy to do. I can always find reasons to avoid the stationary bike and the treadmill, but I still have to go to work, and riding is much more fun than driving in Philadelphia rush-hour traffic!

Not necessarily so. I hate exercise for the sake of exercise and always have. The only way I can force myself to do the elliptical glider every night is to put on a good hard drivin' CD, cranked loud, and get lost in the music. Lately I've been using CCR "Chronicle" -- it's almost ideal at 67 minutes at a pretty good cadence.

Even when I rode frequently as a kid it wasn't so much for the sake of exercise as to see the scenery and whatnot. All through high school I would drive my car the four miles to school in the morning and four miles home in the afternoon. If I had to work, I would drive the car the five miles to my job and back. Duirng the summer, or spring and fall on days I didn't have to work after school, I'd hop on the old Schwinn and ride to a little town about thirteen miles away, get a shake, and ride back. Go figure.

Later on in the Air Force I biked to work whenever I could, which was most of the time when the weather was decent. Those were pretty short rides of a couple of miles so sometimes on the weekends I'd take off for a forty or fifty mile ride just to see where the road went. Seems like most of them led to big dogs with nasty dispositions! I remember getting chased for what seemed like fifty miles up hill by a hole pack of farm mutts in Illinois. It likely was really more like a few hundred yards and the hill wasn't that steep but these bruisers were running silent with teeth bared, not baying, and I didn't have any mace. I was there on a temporary assignment and I'd been able to bring my bike on the plane with me but not my mace!

Then I married a couch potato and became one myself :D

I enjoyed cycling so much that looking back I can't figure out how I became too busy for it. I'm really looking forward to getting back on two wheels. When I enlisted in the Air Force I was planning to do my four and then get out and spend at least a year bumming around the country on a bike. But, about two years into my tour of duty I got married and started having kids and that kind of threw a big wrench in those plans!

John

If you want MTB gearing you might have to get an MTB.

I just measured the chainstays on two Trek MTBs: a '99 6500 and an '02 4300. Both had 17" chainstays. That is probably close to the chainstay length of a standard touring bike. The 4300 cost about $325, and the 6500 I got on a special deal for $450. Both have a granny of 22 teeth and a large cog of 32. Really low gears!

As far as position goes, you can always have the shop switch out stems to alter the reach (and therefore riding position), and move the saddle back/forth. In addition, you can add bar-ends to the handlebars, giving you an alternate position.

Also, by switching out the stock tires for narrower slick or semi-slick tires, you can achieve something close to the speed of a touring bike with 700c tires.

I have my 6500 setup with 1.5" multi-purpose tires, fenders, and a rear rack. I use it for commuting and trail riding, sometimes putting small panniers on it to carry food and clothing.

I don't think you'd wish to put drop handlebars on these bikes, but you may wish to have an MTB in addition to a real road bike in the future. I recently got a Trek 1000 triple-crank road bike.

Good luck!

Originally posted by bradw
I just measured the chainstays on two Trek MTBs: a '99 6500 and an '02 4300. Both had 17" chainstays. That is probably close to the chainstay length of a standard touring bike. The 4300 cost about $325, and the 6500 I got on a special deal for $450. Both have a granny of 22 teeth and a large cog of 32. Really low gears!

Cool! That's what I get for relying on the manufacturer's web site :) I checked a the geometry pages for a couple of the TREK MTBs and I'd swear they were at 16 inches or thereabouts. Just went to double-check, thinking maybe my eyesight is getting even worse than I thought, and now their site is down.


As far as position goes, you can always have the shop switch out stems to alter the reach (and therefore riding position), and move the saddle back/forth.

Didn't realize you could easily move the saddles back in forth. I guess technology has come a long way. In my day all you could do was move them up and down and tilt them fore and aft.



In addition, you can add bar-ends to the handlebars, giving you an alternate position.
Okay, really dumb newbie question coming, what the heck are bar ends?



I have my 6500 setup with 1.5" multi-purpose tires, fenders, and a rear rack. I use it for commuting and trail riding, sometimes putting small panniers on it to carry food and clothing.
That sounds pretty close to what I'm aiming for. I was thinking about dropped bars just for long pulls up hills, but that may not be necessary if I can get low enough gearing.

Thanks for the help. When the TREK site comes back up I'll take another look at the MTB geometry. Maybe I'll take a long lunch tomorrow and run over to the dealer, too. No substitute for actually sitting on the darn things, is there?! :D I just like being as well informed as possible before swimming into the shark tank ;-)

John

It sounds like its been a long time since you been riding!
what are barends is a big clue! they are used with the flat handle bar to give you more hand positions and can be used when hill climbing. and are very good at keep the bush away from your hands when riding the trails.
have you thougth about building a bike?
I would look into building a cross country bike. it sounds more like what you are looking for.

Originally posted by HalfHearted





Didn't realize you could easily move the saddles back in forth. I guess technology has come a long way. In my day all you could do was move them up and down and tilt them fore and aft.


Okay, really dumb newbie question coming, what the heck are bar ends?




John You don't move the seat back and for to get reach to the bars.Back and forth is for proper knee over pedal position.That's it!.Two kinds of barends.One is shifters on the ends of drop bars,other is grip extensions at the ends of flat MTB or hybrid bars.

here's a link to a photo of an MTB bar end. My son has these on his bike and really likes them.

http://www.nashbar.com/profile_moreimages.cfm?category=92&subcategory=1053&sku=2606&brand=

(Please note that on a real bike the bar ends would be right next to the grips and shifters, not on a bare handlebar as in this ad.)

The saddle can be moved back and forth a couple inches to allow for knee positioning.

The high end racing MTBs probably have shorter chainstays.

Work with your local bike shop. If they don't sound willing to help fit the bike to your needs by changing stems, etc., go somewhere else.

It is usually much cheaper to swap components on a new bike at purchase than to go back later for an upgrade. You could request an MTB chainset on your hybrid, and the shop may just charge the price difference. I would advise anyone purchasing a Trek 520 to make this swap.
The other thing you can do is change the factory tyres . For fast roads and good trails, a 28-32mm tyre is fine. Modern Kevlar belted ones are quite a bit more puncture resistant than the ones you used to ride.
Is there any reason you are sticking with Trek ? They make good bikes, but so do Giant, Specialized, Jamis, and a bunch of other manufacturers. Generally, its better to base you "make " of bike on what your best local bike shop stocks.

John, it does sound a lot like a touring bike with MTB gearing is what you want -- exactly what Bruce Gordon sells (www.bgcycles.com). Look at the BLT, and see if I'm not right.

Now obviously you're looking to spend less than $1500, so the question becomes how you can get that kind of setup for less money.

A MTB with a rigid fork and touring tires is definitely one approach. You'd be able to add fenders and even a front rack. There are a lot of touring cyclists who go this way, in part because 26" tires and tubes are so easy to find in the boonies, where 700c rubber is often more scarce.

What you'll give up is the drop bars, but as has been mentioned bar ends can help with providing additional hand positions and with pulling during climbs. (Do you really want to be doing that with a zipper, John? Spinning might be a better strategy for steep climbs.)

Your limits with this setup will be more at the high end, limiting your top speed due to the low gearing, and increasing your aerodynamic resistance due to the upright position. But I sense that these aren't major concerns.

The hard part will be finding a good MTB frame with a rigid fork; crappy suspension forks are hard to avoid these days, especially on "popularly priced" bikes. A used bike might work better if budget is the determining factor.

The 7000 frame could be the basis of the sort of bike that would serve your needs. Unless you also do some sharp shopping for parts, this can get expensive.

Whatever you do, I can't emphasize enough the importance of fit. When we were young our knees didn't mind a long ride on a bike with an out-of-position saddle. Now, a difference of just a few mm in fore/aft saddle positioning can mean you will or you won't develop tendinitis in your knees. A frame that's too small to get your knees over the pedal spindles could be a disaster. Bike sizing and fitting isn't about standover height. Handlebar width, top-tube length, stem length, saddle angle and position, and even crank length all need to be considered, particularly by the older rider who's coming back from a long hiatus.

RichC

Originally posted by Rich Clark
John, it does sound a lot like a touring bike with MTB gearing is what you want -- exactly what Bruce Gordon sells (www.bgcycles.com). Look at the BLT, and see if I'm not right.
Yep, except for the price that looks just about ideal.


Your limits with this setup will be more at the high end, limiting your top speed due to the low gearing, and increasing your aerodynamic resistance due to the upright position. But I sense that these aren't major concerns.

Right, I'm not going to be racing, or even doing much group riding unless I find a bunch of other geezers with damaged hearts to ride with! The only time I see aerodynamics being much of an issue is when I have to push into a headwind, though that will happen fairly often here in N. Texas.


The hard part will be finding a good MTB frame with a rigid fork; crappy suspension forks are hard to avoid these days, especially on "popularly priced" bikes.
That's one of the reasons I was looking at the 7100, it has a rigid fork. I don't want even a good suspension fork because frankly I consider them nothing but something else needing maintenance. I might feel differently if I was going to be riding off cliffs, but for poking around on streets and gentle trails a suspension fork seems like overkill. I don't recall hand/wrist issues ever being a problem even when I rode oversize bikes that forced me to stretch a bit forward to the bars.


A used bike might work better if budget is the determining factor.
I'm definitely considering this. In fact, I'd rather have a well maintained used bike than a new one even if there isn't a big difference in cost. My experience with other things, from cars to computers, has been that you have the most problems with them in the first few months. Once you get past the factory boo-boos things tend to last a long time with decent routine maintenance. And a breakdown is still a nuisance even if it's covered by warranty -- you've still got to get back to civilization with the broken down bike!


Whatever you do, I can't emphasize enough the importance of fit.

Yeah, I'm aware of that but I admit I've been more worried about getting a too-large frame than a too-small one. Might be I need to rethink that. The more I think about it, it seems SO height is more of a concern if you're rough riding and may have to go feet down in a hurry. When I used to ride frequently the bikes I had were a little oversized and would definitely have been painful to go feet flat with, but I don't recall that ever being a problem -- and that's something I'm sure I'd recall! :D

I've been thinking I'd probably need a small (17.5" in the 7100) frame but the next size up might be better not only for my knees, but for the slight addition to the wheelbase.

Thanks for all your help,
John

Originally posted by ahuman
It sounds like its been a long time since you been riding!

You could say that. Let's see. Quite literally the last time I had a leg over a bike was in, hmmm, before I went to Iceland in 1982. Call it spring of 1982. And that bike was five years old, a decent French road bike I'd picked up cheap and almost brand new when the guy that bought it had knee problems so the doctor told him not to ride anymore.

He was a kid who came into our office everyday to pick up paperwork. He'd bought this bike, ridden it downtown to see his girlfriend (about 15 miles round trip) and could barely walk the next day. He was in the office bemoaning this and talking about having to get rid of the bike. I jokingly told him I'd trade him my programmable calculator (not cheap, but about 1/5th the cost of the bike) for it and he jumped on it like a cat on a Junebug.

I rode the bike for five years until the day that I ran into a parked land yacht pulling hard in tenth with my head down in the rain -- the car was parked the wrong way on the wrong side of the street in a no-parking zone -- I saw the front bumper of the car about one second before I hit it -- I didn't realize that it was parked, and that I was still alive, until I'd flipped over the bars, landed on my back on the hood, and rolled off into the street. The collision bent the fork back so the front wheel was in the chainrings and I couldn't find a replacement that would fit there in podunk Oklahoma. Before I had a chance to get another bike I got orders for Iceland.

So, yeah, it's been a little while ;)

Oh, and after I asked that dumb question last night I got smart and did a little browsing so I figured out what bar ends are. Ingenious little concept as long as you don't crash on one!

(edit) I guess I should qualify "land yacht" since that's a common term for a motor home. This wasn't a motor home but an early-70's vintage Cadillac, you know, the old sedans that were almost as large as a small motor home. (/edit)

John

Originally posted by pokey
You don't move the seat back and for to get reach to the bars.Back and forth is for proper knee over pedal position.That's it!.Two kinds of barends.One is shifters on the ends of drop bars,other is grip extensions at the ends of flat MTB or hybrid bars.
Thanks Pokey. After I asked the dumb question I got a little smarter and did some surfing and figured out what bar ends (the second kind) are. It looks like those will work for me so thanks for the suggestion.

John

Originally posted by MichaelW
It is usually much cheaper to swap components on a new bike at purchase than to go back later for an upgrade. You could request an MTB chainset on your hybrid, and the shop may just charge the price difference.
I'll ask about this. It's definitely worth a shot. I think if I could get a 7100 with an upgraded drive train (with ultra granny) without upgrading anything else (i.e. while remaining with rigid fork and basic cantilever brakes) that would be about perfect for my needs.


Is there any reason you are sticking with Trek ? They make good bikes, but so do Giant, Specialized, Jamis, and a bunch of other manufacturers. Generally, its better to base you "make " of bike on what your best local bike shop stocks.
Two main reasons. First, they had the most informative online website (very specific about geometries and so on, and listed MSR price). Cannondale was a close second but they didn't include MSR price information and a few minutes on eBay showed that most of the Cannondale bikes seemed to be a bit higher up the food chain, cost wise. Giant's website was pretty much useless, 90% of the links were broken the ones that did work weren't very informative. I don't think I've looked at Specialized website, yet. I'll have to check it out.

Second, there are two TREK dealers within ten or fifteen minutes of where I work, so once I get a chance to take a long lunch I'll be able to check the bikes out more closely. I may end up not going with a TREK in the end, but TREK was the make I could do the most "advance work" on and count on being able to follow it up with a shop visit.

John

Originally posted by MichaelW
Is there any reason you are sticking with Trek ? They make good bikes, but so do Giant, Specialized, Jamis, and a bunch of other manufacturers.
Thanks for mentioning Specialized and Jamis. I've spent a little time at their website and it looks like their Hardrock model might be pretty close to what I'm looking for, if a tad short on wheelbase and chaninstay length. Looks like the gearing is right and the drivetrain components are maybe a step up from the TREK 4300, at about the same price.

There are a couple of shops not too far from where I work that stock Specialized so I'll check them out.

I don't think I'd ever heard of Jamis before but I found their website. The Jamis Explorer also looks promising, and there is at least one dealer near me.

Thanks,
John

Okay Y'all, promise not to laugh at me ;) I happened to be in WalMart today and just on a lark looked at their bikes. I think I'm going to get a Schwinn Suburban just to last through spring and summer and give me time to put together a really top-notch ride come fall and the longer trecks I'm planning then.

The Suburban 18" aluminum frame fits me just about perfectly, the components are not great but decent (direct pull brakes, shimano derailieurs and rear cassette, SRAM shifters, some crappy suspension fork that I could really do without) and, wonder of wonders, the gearing is exactly what I'm looking for (34-tooth big cog in the rear and 24-tooth small cog on the triple chainring).

Granted, I sure wouldn't do any loaded touring on this thing, or even any long range unloaded touring, but at 170 bucks I can ride it this summer and throw it away (or keep it for a beater in nasty weather) after I've built up a decent long-range bike. (Probably something like a TREk 520 with a different chainring set.)

Now, if I can just get Wally-World to sell me one in the box that their ham-fisted "assemblers" haven't screwed up...

John

John, before you do something rash... if buying an entry-level made-in-China MTB as a temporary solution is your strategy -- and I don't disagree that it's a viable one -- why not give your local bike shop a chance to show you what they have in that category?

Aside from assembly by someone who knows how, you'll get support and service for years to come. Most importantly, it's an opportunity to start building a relationship with a dealer who can be if immeasurable help when you're ready to spend real money on higher-end equipment.

The bike shop will do things for you that the Walmart never will, like swap street tires for the knobbies, or exchange stems for one with different reach or rise. They'll give you at least one free tune-up. A good shop will properly prep the wheels, something no Walmart even knows the meaning of. I've never seen a Walmart bike that didn't have undertensioned spokes, and machine-built wheels are never stress-relieved. A good bike shop will take care of this stuff (even if they sometimes have to be prodded).

These department-store Schwinns, introduced since the company went under and was bought out by Pacific, are not necessarily badly made or equipped. But you're correct to be wary of their assembly standards. And my question is, honestly, are you really equipped to do better? Have you worked with v-brakes, indexed shifting, or cassettes (rather than freewheels)? Do you have a crankset puller, a cassette lockring tool, a bottom-bracket tool? While these things aren't strictly needed for assembly, since they're factory installed, most parts on a new bike should be lubed before assembly, but rarely are. A good bike shop knows this and does a lot more than pull the bike out of the box and bolt stuff together.

Not all bike shops adhere to the highest standards, but finding one that does can serve you well in the future. Buying an entry-level bike can be one way to "shop for shops."

RichC

Originally posted by Rich Clark
Not all bike shops adhere to the highest standards, but finding one that does can serve you well in the future. Buying an entry-level bike can be one way to "shop for shops."


That's certainly worth a thought, and I was planning on checking out a couple of local shops to see what they had in the way of used bikes anyway, before making a final decision.

I also like supporting local shops over the mega stores, just on principal. I used to work part time in an RC airplane hobby shop. Learned to hate the jerks that would spend hours of our time and then go buy mail order to save five bucks. That's why I try to do as much research online as I can before hitting the shops.

As for the rest, though, I really prefer to do all my own maintenance, anyway. The chance that I'll take even an expensive bike back to a shop for anything short of a major warranty repair is pretty slim. I'm pretty handy mechanically and I've always maintained my own vehicles, cars and bikes alike. I'm sure I'll need some new tools and I'll need to get some books on the new technical stuff, but those are opportunities, not disadvantages!

In fact, I wouldn't want to ride further than walking distance from home on any machine that I didn't understand pretty thoroughly, anyway!

Actually, that's another good reason to buy a cheaper-than-dirt *mart bike -- if I do make any mistakes learning the new technology it'll be on a junker rather than a good bike ;)

John

If you decide to jump in with both feet, let me recommend two resources:

1) www.sheldonbrown.com -- one of the best cycling sites on the Web, and

2) Zinn and the Art of Mountin Bike Maintenance. This and his companion book on road bikes are the best tech books I know of.

I feel the same way you do, but I started out with a bike from a shop that I could rely on and get in shape with. Then I bought a bike to tear down and build back up before ever riding it.

RichC

Originally posted by Rich Clark
If you decide to jump in with both feet, let me recommend two resources:

1) www.sheldonbrown.com -- one of the best cycling sites on the Web, and

Thanks, I've already spent a little time there. You gotta love google!



2) Zinn and the Art of Mountin Bike Maintenance. This and his companion book on road bikes are the best tech books I know of.

I guess it's off to B & N on my lunch hour Monday. Wait, that one I can cover as a legitimate worktime jaunt, I need a book on XML for work anyway!

John

Hi John!

I just have to share this with you. I have a trek 7200 and it's ok. I rode it some before I realized I wanted a real road bike. I bought a new trek 2000 and love this bike but I still needed something to ride around close to home and maby commute to work on instead of a dedicated road bike, I gave the 7200 to my son to ride. I also wanted a bike I could leave on the front portch and hop on at a whim. My intention was to Ebay up an older trek MB and convert it to a town cruser, curb jumper and something to ride on developed trails or in a cow pasture if I take a notion to with out worying about messing up my road bike.
On a whim I visited a shop that had lot's of mountian bikes. I was looking for something used with a ridged fork with intentions to put fenders on and maby a rack. I found a trek 850 that was just the ticket. Never been ridden around 4 years old and the owner looking to move it. Got it for 250 plus a small extra charge to swap out tubes and tires and stem. This bike looks almost like a road bike frame. It doesn't look like the current hybred bikes either. The frame on this bike is steel and it is made in the USA! It also has the kind of gearing you are looking for.
Please don't rule out buying a used quality bike, you can buy used bikes that have more life left in them than a new low quality bike will ever have!:D

Originally posted by uciflylow
Hi John!
...
Please don't rule out buying a used quality bike, you can buy used bikes that have more life left in them than a new low quality bike will ever have!:D
Oh, I definitely haven't ruled that out. I guess I'll never make a good yuppie because, no matter what my income, I'd rather buy used than new everything else being equal.

John

Well, I selected a Trek 7300 at Bicycles Inc., today. I'd really been leaning toward a Jamis Tangier because it had better components than the Trek and a similar frame. However, neither of the two Jamis "dealers" near me had one for me to look at (I put "dealers" in quotes because I don't consider somebody a dealer unless they have a representative sample of the line on the floor -- if not, they're just a catalog store).

Bicycles Inc. is going to change out the crank on the 7300 for me so I can get some granny gears goin' on.

I'd been looking at getting a cheaper bike to start with and then a better one later this summer, but decided to go ahead and spring for the better bike now.

Oh, I guess I should mention I won't actually pick the bike up 'til next week, 'cause I have to wait for my cash to arrive as I refuse to use plastic except as a last resort!

John