Anyone have any ideas about to handle roundabouts on a bike? The Region of Waterloo has elected to put in roundabouts on some of the major regional roads that lead into the tricity area. This is prime road riding countryside which is having a rather disheartening encounter with urban sprawl (Sigh). On the western side of Waterloo, the region has installed a roundabout connecting Erbs St and Ira Needles Blvd. and the wierd thing is that the cycling lanes disappear at the roundabout and at least on one side the bicycle lane actually leads right onto the sidewalk and the bike lane reappears on the first road on the right. I rode through this thing twice on Sunday and both times I took the first road on the right and there was little traffic at all. I do wonder about being in the position of having to use the roundabout to go straight through or to make a left especially in heavy traffic. The really wierd thing is that the inner ring of the roundabout appears to have 2 lanes so traffic is cutting in and about all the time. Here is a url from the region:
When I was living in London (UK) I routinely went through the Chiswick roundabout where the North Circular, A4 and M4 met. I took one look at it and decided that me and my old Carlton would morph into a pedestrian vehicle. I really do not like the idea of running my good road bike on the sidewalk.
AndrewP
06-05-06, 08:40 PM
Get 2 safety flags (with metal screws mounted on the end) to stick out 18" on either side of the seat. Then take the lane 50 or 100 yards before you reach the roundabout. Since there isnt a pedestrian activated signal to stop the traffic at the crosswalks, I would ignore the sidewalk option.
John E
06-05-06, 08:44 PM
Take the lane. This is the only safe option for bicyclists.
Fortunately, the roundabouts in my area (e.g. Devonshire at Santa Fe Dr., Encinitas CA) are slow, tight-radius affairs. The elimination of bike lanes on the approaches is intentional, to prevent right-hookings and other collisions.
nm+
06-05-06, 08:54 PM
I used to live in the UK. I tended to only ride one laners, but the pinciple is the same.
Act exactly as a car would, take the lane and be very aware of your surroundings. The big problem wiuth NA roundabouts is that drivers are just as confused as you. Expect them to not understand when to yeild, etc.
Also, if it is multi-lane and you're taking the lane, look for cars trying to get over.
Also, ride em fast, but look out for that car entering.
John E
06-05-06, 09:01 PM
Since traffic already in the circle (properly) has the right-of-way over entering traffic, roundabouts can be counterintuitive, because we are accustomed to yielding to the car ON THE RIGHT at uncontrolled intersections or 4-way stops. A roundabout works well only if its radius is so tight that speeds are reduced to about 15mph/25kph.
select "intersections" from the drop down menu, and click on "roundabouts" for a video
MichaelW
06-06-06, 06:36 AM
I vary my approach according to the conditions.
If the rb is fast, multilane and I need to go more than halfway around, I may opt to walk.
If it is on a slope I may ride downhill but walk uphill; you need to keep up speed to be safe.
You have to take the whole lane, signal as you pass junctions and keep an eye out for over/under takers.
Beware of people driving straight across at high speed. Even if you have already entered the rb, they may just drive at you.
Beware of crossing wide double lane exits. Vehicles behind you may want to exit at high speed.
yak
06-06-06, 07:01 AM
'Round here :D , we have rotaries, and we have roundabouts. Rotaries are usually large 2-lane affairs, designed to route traffic without impeding the flow. Roundabouts are small single lane affairs, designed specifically to slow traffic.
I take the lane completely in a roundabout, and take the outer lane completly in a rotary. You do need to make sure that someone doesn't right-hook you in a rotary. Some of them are fairly large and it can take a minute to circumnavigate it. In a roundabout, you're through it quickly and if you've taken the lane, it's impossible to get right-hooked.
Walking is for pedestrians without bikes.
lyledriver
06-06-06, 09:00 AM
We only have small traffic calming roundabouts here.
I always take the lane half a block in advance, to make sure no one tries to pass me as I enter.
Generally, they work well if everyone knows to yield to whoever is on your left, in the roundabout.
Too bad so many people don't know this.
The Modern Roundabout (http://www.azdot.gov/CCPartnerships/Roundabouts/index.asp)
I-Like-To-Bike
06-06-06, 12:01 PM
I never heard of a "roundabout" before reading of them in BF. I am familiar with "circles" and never have liked driving in them, let alone cycling. Where in the U.S. are circles called or known as "roundabouts" by motorists?
filtersweep
06-06-06, 12:18 PM
In the US? They aren't very common. But this is an international forum ;) When I lived in Minneapolis they had ONE, repeat ONE roundabout-- and they must have put up 12 yield signs and 15 arrows to show people where to drive (it was only a regular four way intersection)- and still people would drive the WRONG way to turn left, drive over it, or refuse to yield to the left, etc. It was truly a hazard.
Europeans, however, are much more intelligent drivers... and roundabouts are everywhere in Europe. Ever watch the TdF? I hated them when I first moved here, but have grown to love them... no more EVER waiting for a red light when there is no traffic around.
To bike them- take the lane so you are seen, and ride aggressively. I have to fight for my right of way in them.
I never heard of a "roundabout" before reading of them in BF. I am familiar with "circles" and never have liked driving in them, let alone cycling. Where in the U.S. are circles called or known as "roundabouts" by motorists?
closetbiker
06-06-06, 12:21 PM
Europeans, however, are much more intelligent drivers... and roundabouts are everywhere in Europe. Ever watch the TdF? I hated them when I first moved here, but have grown to love them... no more EVER waiting for a red light when there is no traffic around.
I love 'em too. Traffic moves much more smooth.
noisebeam
06-06-06, 12:22 PM
From Arizona Department of Transportation link (http://www.azdot.gov/CCPartnerships/Roundabouts/index.asp)I provided above:
"Will the roundabout be unsafe for pedestrians and bicycles?
Auto-pedestrian crash rates are usually lower at modern roundabouts than traffic signals. Those pedestrian injuries that do occur tend to be less serious due to the relatively low speeds encountered at modern roundabouts. Legitimate concerns have been raised regarding the ability of blind pedestrians to negotiate roundabouts, and this topic is under consideration within the U.S. transportation community. At intersections, which are used by blind pedestrians, other countries such as the United Kingdom have implemented design measures including signalized crosswalks with good success. Where appropriate, these measures will promote safe conditions for blind pedestrians.
Properly designed roundabouts also safely accommodate bicycles. Because vehicles are traveling at low speeds, which are comparable to bicycle speeds, bicycles can negotiate a roundabout like motorized vehicles. Bicycles have two choices to negotiate a roundabout. The more avid and skilled bicyclists can merge into a traffic lane before the bike lane ends; ride close to the middle of the lane to prevent vehicles from passing and cutting the bicyclist off; enter the roundabout after yielding to vehicles within the roundabout; circulate the roundabout being careful to watch for vehicles waiting to enter the roundabout; and exit the roundabout as a normal vehicle would do. Bicyclists not wanting to enter the roundabout can enter the sidewalk using the ramps where the bike lane ends, and proceed around the roundabout as a pedestrian. "
LCI_Brian
06-06-06, 02:01 PM
I never heard of a "roundabout" before reading of them in BF. I am familiar with "circles" and never have liked driving in them, let alone cycling. Where in the U.S. are circles called or known as "roundabouts" by motorists?
From what I'm told, the term "roundabout" is used to describe newer designs, in which the entry/exit angles, curve radii, etc., have been changed over older designs. But with some it's hard for me to see any difference. :-)
LCI_Brian
06-06-06, 02:03 PM
Fortunately, the roundabouts in my area (e.g. Devonshire at Santa Fe Dr., Encinitas CA) are slow, tight-radius affairs. The elimination of bike lanes on the approaches is intentional, to prevent right-hookings and other collisions.
For the new roundabouts in my area, the bike lanes are diverted onto the sidewalks on the approaches.
noisebeam
06-06-06, 02:04 PM
From what I'm told, the term "roundabout" is used to describe newer designs, in which the entry/exit angles, curve radii, etc., have been changed over older designs. But with some it's hard for me to see any difference. :-)
That same link has a brief 'history' of the 'roundabout'
From Arizona Department of Transportation link (http://www.azdot.gov/CCPartnerships/Roundabouts/index.asp)I provided above:
"[B]
Properly designed roundabouts also safely accommodate bicycles. Because vehicles are traveling at low speeds, which are comparable to bicycle speeds, bicycles can negotiate a roundabout like motorized vehicles. Bicycles have two choices to negotiate a roundabout. The more avid and skilled bicyclists can merge into a traffic lane before the bike lane ends; ride close to the middle of the lane to prevent vehicles from passing and cutting the bicyclist off; enter the roundabout after yielding to vehicles within the roundabout; circulate the roundabout being careful to watch for vehicles waiting to enter the roundabout; and exit the roundabout as a normal vehicle would do. Bicyclists not wanting to enter the roundabout can enter the sidewalk using the ramps where the bike lane ends, and proceed around the roundabout as a pedestrian. "
I think that's pretty accurate in my experience in both Europe and the U.S. However, in the U.S. many motorists have no idea how roundabouts are supposed to work , so you have to assume they're going to mess up , and not yield to you when they're supposed to , even more so than normal.
slagjumper
06-09-06, 12:24 PM
I've seen some pretty outrageous roundabouts in Cape Town. Two and three laners!
In the US people are clueless about how to deal with the traffic circles. Some don't yield to those allready in the circle and others dont even "keep to the right"
In Pittsburgh, there are only two. One is a quiet, out of the way park road. The other i--the 4 lane West End Circle-- is one of the most confusing traffic designs in the city. Only saving grace is that they have 4 sets of "robots" to control traffic.
I'd stick to the outside lane if there are 2 or more lanes and keep up with traffic.
How the hell to the blind deal with these?
noisebeam
06-09-06, 02:33 PM
How the hell to the blind deal with these?
Good question. From the link I provided above:
"Legitimate concerns have been raised regarding the ability of blind pedestrians to negotiate roundabouts, and this topic is under consideration within the U.S. transportation community. At intersections, which are used by blind pedestrians, other countries such as the United Kingdom have implemented design measures including signalized crosswalks with good success. Where appropriate, these measures will promote safe conditions for blind pedestrians. "
Al
head_wind
06-09-06, 06:27 PM
In Colorado Springs they install short radius traffic circles as 'traffic calming devices'. No, I didn't make those words up!! My only caution (which is not really satisfactory) is don't compound the problem with a wheelie. I discovered that if I'm not careful when an SUV is bearing down on me that I can do a wheelie on my road bike and even my longer wheelbase cross bike. You really don't want to do that in a curve.
markf
06-09-06, 09:56 PM
On my two cycling tours in the UK I learned very quickly to take the lane, signal my intentions, and go like hell. On big multi-lane roundabouts it's a good idea to move to the right hand edge of the second lane from the outside, leaving the entire outside lane for vehicles exiting the roundabout. Once you get the hang of it it's kind of fun, in the same way that I imagine running with the bulls in Pamplona would be.
Vail, Colorado has a number of multi-lane roundabouts, the locals have learned to handle them but quite a few of the tourists just seem incapable of figuring them out. Luckily for them Vail has an excellent bus system.
Bekologist
06-10-06, 01:14 AM
there are at least 3 or 4 large roundabouts in the greater puget sound region ive come across on a bicycle, including one used very near a freeway off ramp and ajacent to a school....
just jump right in and do-si-do. its like swing dancing with manevolent, rabid hippos. show them you are wise to their car driving tricks.
The Human Car
07-21-06, 11:57 AM
FWIW This page has a good description of how to ride in traffic circle.
http://www.bikexprt.com/streetsmarts/usa/chapter4a.htm
John E
07-21-06, 01:45 PM
For the new roundabouts in my area, the bike lanes are diverted onto the sidewalks on the approaches.
This is pretty common. Slower, less experienced, casual, and juvenile cyclists are encouraged to cross as pedestrians, whereas faster, more experienced adult cyclists are encouraged to take the lane vehicularly. The problem I see is an inherent right-hook threat for those who blithely bike in the crosswalks.
We have a new tight-radius circle in town, and I make a point of traversing it at least once per week. So far, lane-taking seems to work pretty well.
Two miles to the north and very close to home, three more circles are planned on Leucadia Bl., west of I-5. Again, these will be single-lane affairs. Two will replace 2-way stop signs, whereas one will replace a 4-way.
John E
07-21-06, 01:52 PM
FWIW This page has a good description of how to ride in traffic circle.
http://www.bikexprt.com/streetsmarts/usa/chapter4a.htm
The traffic circle part isn't bad, but Allen's description of how to handle onramps and offramps, particularly auxiliary lanes connecting onramps to offramps, makes the simplistic assumption that motorists will see us and go around us properly. Patrick Klokow's tragic death on southbound Kearny Villa Rd. between the Harris Plant Rd. onramp and the 163 offramp graphically illustrates the problem.
Roundabouts were invented in the US over a hundred years ago. Search William Phelps Eno. So sure, we don't know how to manuever throught them just like we don't know how hook up those rope things from the buggy things to the horse things. Ahhh, ask an Amish person, they still know all about that stuff. There's a bunch still on Cape Cod. Just most have been removed. Some communities keep them as a historical relic like old covered bridges. Portland, OR has a ton of little new ones where the just put a big block in the middle of an intersection.
atbman
07-21-06, 03:50 PM
On my two cycling tours in the UK I learned very quickly to take the lane, signal my intentions, and go like hell. On big multi-lane roundabouts it's a good idea to move to the right hand edge of the second lane from the outside, leaving the entire outside lane for vehicles exiting the roundabout. Once you get the hang of it it's kind of fun, in the same way that I imagine running with the bulls in Pamplona would be.
Agreed. Do the usual VC thing of behaving like any other vehicle user and take the appropriate lane. Don't ride in the outer lane unless taking the first exit - drivers may cut across you.
In the UK, thowever, a cyclist is about 100 x more likely to have an accident than on a signalled junction. On the larger, multi-laned ones, espec. at motorway junctions, they are installing traffic lights.
The danger is that drivers entering the larger ones tend to look well to the right (left US) and may well miss seeing a cyclist in the 35/45 degree angle from straight ahead to just to the right (left US).
Unfortunately, altho' correct positioning and indicating on them is a part of the UK driving test, theory and practice, there are still a large minority who don't have a clue how to do so on multi-laners. Darwinian theory is vindicated by the fact that cyclists have developed telepathic powers at such junctions - those of you who are "the Bible is the inerrant word of God" -ers, may regard this development as proof of divine intervention.
lyledriver
07-21-06, 03:58 PM
I know I already replied to this.. but just yesterday, as I was approaching one of the many roundabouts on my commute, I heard a car open its throttle to pass.
I put out my hand, open palm, motioning to slow down, hoping that he wouldn't pass me.
..and well, he didn't squeeze me.
He just went around it the wrong way, in order to pass me.
Hopefully Darwin will sort him out eventually.
sbhikes
07-21-06, 04:57 PM
I've done a roundabout with my trike in my town quite a bit more easily than I expected. It was no big deal. I don't have much reason to use it often, so I haven't been back. You just get in it and go.
Meanwhile, a friend of mine actually rode his unicycle through the roundabout. This roundabout has two-lane feeders and exists, by the way, so it's relatively meaty.
John E
07-22-06, 11:48 AM
My position on traffic circles is simple: I support single-laners with 15mph design speeds, i.e., tight turn radii. I oppose most others. They are definitely not the panacea that Michael Wallwork and other traffic engineering consultants claim they are, but I do believe a tight-radius circle is safer than a 4-way stop sign.
Eli_Damon
07-22-06, 09:52 PM
If you think a regular roundabout is bad, look at this disaster. http://www.randmcnally.com/rmc/maproute?t=m&id=EM36264758083130422
I should mention that the "straight through" section has three lanes for each direction and traffic lights at each end.
soze
07-23-06, 12:01 AM
The Latham Circle roundabout near me is a freaking nightmare. It's been there forever, but you wouldn't know it by the way people drive on it. It's terrifying even as a passenger in car. I go to great lengths to cut around it using side roads.
mhifoe
07-24-06, 06:12 AM
How about this one near me?
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=magic+roundabout&ie=UTF8&ll=51.562859,-1.770848&spn=0.002518,0.006781&t=k&om=1
OH306
07-24-06, 06:54 AM
Or this one near me. At least they put it next to the cemetery.
So, am I the only one that perfers them to traffic lights with 3 straight through, a left turn lane, a right turn lane, advanced greens, and people driving at random?
CentPARider
07-24-06, 07:29 AM
From PA's manual:
TRAFFIC CIRCLES
A traffic circle is a left-curving street with several side streets going off to the right.
The right lane of a traffic circle, then, is a right-turn lane used by entering and exiting traffic. Enter the traffic circle in the right lane if you’re going to turn right at the first exit. But if you’re going past the first exit, change lanes to the inside as you enter the circle. Ride around at the outer edge of the inside lane. It sometimes helps to make a left-turn signal while in the inside lane; drivers then feel comfortable about passing you on the right as they exit the circle.
Change back to the outside lane as you approach your exit. Use your normal tactics and hand signals for lane-changing.
In a traffic circle or rotary intersection, a) Keep to the right if you will take the first exit, b) and c), Ride in the inside lane if you are going past the first exit.
Because of the traffic circle’s left curve, cars go straight to turn right. For this reason, it’s especially dangerous to cross an exit of a traffic circle in the right lane. Bicyclists who always keep to the right will tell you that traffic circles are very dangerous. On the other hand, you’ll find it surprisingly easy to ride around in the inside lane. Drivers don’t go very fast there, since they follow the curve.
Here's one of our larger, local roundabout disasters. Dangerous enough for cars (have yet to go through it without nearly getting creamed while motoring) - forget about bikes. Every corner is obscured, outer lanes are few and far between.
(see large version: http://www.roundabouts.net/pics/slides/slide_coralgables_large.jpg)
It's one of our less-dangerous roundabouts...there are a few more around here that are considerably more perilous due to their gigantuan size (hence, motorists don't know what the hell to do in it), and 40+ mph traffic. Add the fact that no motorist in Miami yields, and it becomes an automatic suicide machine.