hillyman
01-17-03, 05:41 PM
I saw this in a Sportsmansguide catalog and thought it looked neat.Does anyone know anything about it?
Touring - Optimus gasoline-burning compact stove
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HalfHearted
01-17-03, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by hillyman
I saw this in a Sportsmansguide catalog and thought it looked neat.Does anyone know anything about it?
They've been around for at least thirty years. I never owned the Optimus stove but I used to go backpacking with a similar stove that I can't recall the make of now but it was round and a bit lighter than the Optimus. That was in the early seventies and the Optimus was available back then, too.
These work quite well, I heated many a cup of coffee and many a freeze dried stew over mine. At low altitudes and moderate temperatures they aren't quite as fast as a propane stove. At high altitudes and in very cold weather they'll work quite well long after propane and especially butane stoves have become pretty useless. The fuel is also lighter (the fuel is not pressurized so you carry it in a lightweight aluminum "bottle").
One note, though, these use white gas ("Coleman fuel") not the gasoline you put in your car! Even so, they are far more economical to fuel than the compressed gas stoves. Even now I suspect the fuel for them is also a little more readily available in the back-side-of-nowhere than the compressed gas cylinders. Reason being they use the same fuel as the stoves, heaters, and lanterns used by the heavyweight campers, hunters, etc. It comes in gallon cans.
Call me old fashioned, but if I was going on a long self-supported ride I'd be looking for one of these "old" white gas stoves. I wouldn't even consider the compressed gas stoves. The CG stoves are more convenient to light (getting some of the white gas stoves going the first time or two is an experience, you should practice a few times at home before starting on your trip) but the white gas stoves are a lot lighter if you're talking about fuel for a week or two.
John
I saw this in a Sportsmansguide catalog and thought it looked neat.Does anyone know anything about it?
They've been around for at least thirty years. I never owned the Optimus stove but I used to go backpacking with a similar stove that I can't recall the make of now but it was round and a bit lighter than the Optimus. That was in the early seventies and the Optimus was available back then, too.
These work quite well, I heated many a cup of coffee and many a freeze dried stew over mine. At low altitudes and moderate temperatures they aren't quite as fast as a propane stove. At high altitudes and in very cold weather they'll work quite well long after propane and especially butane stoves have become pretty useless. The fuel is also lighter (the fuel is not pressurized so you carry it in a lightweight aluminum "bottle").
One note, though, these use white gas ("Coleman fuel") not the gasoline you put in your car! Even so, they are far more economical to fuel than the compressed gas stoves. Even now I suspect the fuel for them is also a little more readily available in the back-side-of-nowhere than the compressed gas cylinders. Reason being they use the same fuel as the stoves, heaters, and lanterns used by the heavyweight campers, hunters, etc. It comes in gallon cans.
Call me old fashioned, but if I was going on a long self-supported ride I'd be looking for one of these "old" white gas stoves. I wouldn't even consider the compressed gas stoves. The CG stoves are more convenient to light (getting some of the white gas stoves going the first time or two is an experience, you should practice a few times at home before starting on your trip) but the white gas stoves are a lot lighter if you're talking about fuel for a week or two.
John
HalfHearted
01-18-03, 01:05 PM
One thing I forgot to mention last night. I remembered why I bought the round stove I did instead of the Optimus, way back when. Besides the fact that the Optimus was a bit heavier, you'll notice from the photo that there is no kind of wind screen around the burner. The little round stove I had came with a built in wind screen, with the Optimus I seem to remember that they sold a little aluminum fold down screen that you could set up next to the stove.
John
John
Julien
01-18-03, 01:59 PM
Also, check out the Primus line of stoves (Multifuel and Varifuel). They're light and compact AND will burn anything from gasoline to diesel to gaz cartridges.... All you need is to change to an appropriate nipple (supplied)... You'll never be somewhere where you can't find a usable fuel....
Brains
01-18-03, 03:55 PM
http://www.optimus.se/
http://www.trangia.se/english/inledande/inledframe.html
Check out the Optimus site - At the moment one of the best stoves on the market is the NOVA stove unit when combined with the Trangia stove unit - Ultimate in lightweight cooking. I have see a few three course meals for three cooked on them. The advantage with the trangia cobined with the Nova is us can use just about any fuel around, gas, meths, colman fuel, petrol, avgas, even diesel I have been told.
http://www.trangia.se/english/inledande/inledframe.html
Check out the Optimus site - At the moment one of the best stoves on the market is the NOVA stove unit when combined with the Trangia stove unit - Ultimate in lightweight cooking. I have see a few three course meals for three cooked on them. The advantage with the trangia cobined with the Nova is us can use just about any fuel around, gas, meths, colman fuel, petrol, avgas, even diesel I have been told.
HalfHearted
01-18-03, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by Julien
Also, check out the Primus line of stoves (Multifuel and Varifuel). They're light and compact AND will burn anything from gasoline to diesel to gaz cartridges.... All you need is to change to an appropriate nipple (supplied)... You'll never be somewhere where you can't find a usable fuel....
Thousands of hours of research went into the production of this line, most of it marketing.
A friend of mine worked in the product development department when this line of stoves was developed. He said they were ready to go into production with their new white-gas stove when their boss got this call from marketing:
Marketing, "Hey, we just completed this survey of first time backpadkers. Thirty-eight percent of city dwellers reported feeling homesick during the trip. Can you make a stove that burns diesel so the odor will remind them of their city busses back home?"
Knowing that no one would really want to cook food over diesel fuel and they'd have a bunch of stoves that never sold, and be blamed for it, my buddy's crafty boss said, "hey, let's just add a nipple to the white-gas stove."
So they did. They were just about ready to go into production again when they got another call from marketing:
Marketing, "We just did another survey. Eleven percent of the respondents reported losing their matches or lighter and being unable to light their stoves. Another thirty percent reported a fear of having that happen to them. Can you buid in some sort of lighter?"
Well, my buddy and his coworkers thought and thought but couldn't come up with a way to make a lightweight lighter that was idiot proof enough. Chain it to the stove and some idiot wouild surely break it loose so he could melt the ends on some nylon cord or something. They were just about to give up when his boss had another great idea. "Hey, we'll just make a nipple so they can use automotive gasoline, they can easily light it with a good spark from the static electricity in their nylong clothing and gear."
Yeah, okay, so the above is completely ficitonal, but it was still a good read, right? :p
Seriously, I wouldn't even consider cooking over diesel for the aroma and additives. Automotive gasoline is extremely volatile and the vapors really can be ignited by a good spark from static electricity on a cold dry day -- about thirty people a year discover this the hard way when they are filling their cars. Additionally, even unleaded gasoline has all kinds of nasty additives you don't want to be breathing.
So, there's nothing wrong with buying one of those stoves, but it's mostly marketing hype because you're going to end up using CG cartridges or white gas in it anyway.
Besides which, white gas is available almost anywhere you've got a store of any kind. In cities you have to go to a wally world or a sporting goods store, but in the boonies every run-down corner convenience store has a couple of gallons of Coleman fuel around because they know that sooner or later a camper, fisher, or hunter, is going to come in looking for some. Also, on the only occasion that I ran out of fuel I just hiked about two miles out of my way to a public "heavy" campground and asked someone there if I could buy a quart of their Coleman Fuel. If I remember right they wouldn't even let me pay for it.
Oh, BTW, here's the little round stove I had way back when:
John
Also, check out the Primus line of stoves (Multifuel and Varifuel). They're light and compact AND will burn anything from gasoline to diesel to gaz cartridges.... All you need is to change to an appropriate nipple (supplied)... You'll never be somewhere where you can't find a usable fuel....
Thousands of hours of research went into the production of this line, most of it marketing.
A friend of mine worked in the product development department when this line of stoves was developed. He said they were ready to go into production with their new white-gas stove when their boss got this call from marketing:
Marketing, "Hey, we just completed this survey of first time backpadkers. Thirty-eight percent of city dwellers reported feeling homesick during the trip. Can you make a stove that burns diesel so the odor will remind them of their city busses back home?"
Knowing that no one would really want to cook food over diesel fuel and they'd have a bunch of stoves that never sold, and be blamed for it, my buddy's crafty boss said, "hey, let's just add a nipple to the white-gas stove."
So they did. They were just about ready to go into production again when they got another call from marketing:
Marketing, "We just did another survey. Eleven percent of the respondents reported losing their matches or lighter and being unable to light their stoves. Another thirty percent reported a fear of having that happen to them. Can you buid in some sort of lighter?"
Well, my buddy and his coworkers thought and thought but couldn't come up with a way to make a lightweight lighter that was idiot proof enough. Chain it to the stove and some idiot wouild surely break it loose so he could melt the ends on some nylon cord or something. They were just about to give up when his boss had another great idea. "Hey, we'll just make a nipple so they can use automotive gasoline, they can easily light it with a good spark from the static electricity in their nylong clothing and gear."
Yeah, okay, so the above is completely ficitonal, but it was still a good read, right? :p
Seriously, I wouldn't even consider cooking over diesel for the aroma and additives. Automotive gasoline is extremely volatile and the vapors really can be ignited by a good spark from static electricity on a cold dry day -- about thirty people a year discover this the hard way when they are filling their cars. Additionally, even unleaded gasoline has all kinds of nasty additives you don't want to be breathing.
So, there's nothing wrong with buying one of those stoves, but it's mostly marketing hype because you're going to end up using CG cartridges or white gas in it anyway.
Besides which, white gas is available almost anywhere you've got a store of any kind. In cities you have to go to a wally world or a sporting goods store, but in the boonies every run-down corner convenience store has a couple of gallons of Coleman fuel around because they know that sooner or later a camper, fisher, or hunter, is going to come in looking for some. Also, on the only occasion that I ran out of fuel I just hiked about two miles out of my way to a public "heavy" campground and asked someone there if I could buy a quart of their Coleman Fuel. If I remember right they wouldn't even let me pay for it.
Oh, BTW, here's the little round stove I had way back when:
John
Brains
01-19-03, 04:33 PM
Gaz and white fuel may be availabe 'anyplace' in the USA but if you ever intend on using the stove in the rest of the planet then the ability to run on parafin/kerosine/meths/ and petrol or diesel is a big advantage.
Phatman
01-19-03, 05:25 PM
Have you ever used white gas before? It sucks.
White gas is a very dirty fuel compared to propane or butane. I would recommend white gas only for very cold temps or very high altitudes (over 10,000 feet)
For a white gas stove, you have to let a little bit of fuel into a cup under the coil, light that, let the vaporizer coil heat up, then turn the fuel knob back on to let the flame adjust. White gas is also dirty, it will get black soot on your pots which gets on your stuff in your pack. White gas also needs to be stored in fuel bottles, which are expensive for quality bottles. I went backpacking with white gas in cheap bottles, and they leaked, and spilled white gas all over my raingear.
I would recomend a propane-butane mix for touring. The stoves themselves are very light as is the fuel.
Gary olen has some neat stuff in that catalog, but almost none of it is stuff that i would want to 100% rely upon.
White gas is a very dirty fuel compared to propane or butane. I would recommend white gas only for very cold temps or very high altitudes (over 10,000 feet)
For a white gas stove, you have to let a little bit of fuel into a cup under the coil, light that, let the vaporizer coil heat up, then turn the fuel knob back on to let the flame adjust. White gas is also dirty, it will get black soot on your pots which gets on your stuff in your pack. White gas also needs to be stored in fuel bottles, which are expensive for quality bottles. I went backpacking with white gas in cheap bottles, and they leaked, and spilled white gas all over my raingear.
I would recomend a propane-butane mix for touring. The stoves themselves are very light as is the fuel.
Gary olen has some neat stuff in that catalog, but almost none of it is stuff that i would want to 100% rely upon.
HalfHearted
01-19-03, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by Phatman
Have you ever used white gas before? It sucks
Yes, I have, and no, it doesn't :) You can't blame buying cheap bottles on the fuel!
You will get a little discoloration on pots but only a little if the burner is adjusted right. Most people that see a lot of soot are cranking the burner all the way up to a yellow flame. You actually get less heat and more soot that way.
Actually, from the experience you describe it almost sounds like you tried to use kerosene, either that or you got some really bad fuel -- maybe with a lot of water in it -- or possibly had a defective or damaged stove (if you bend the vents in the burner you'll get really strange results).
Lighting some of the stoves is a bit tricky the first time or two, but most have pumps to pressurize the tank, now. I think even the new (last 20 years) Svea 123s have a little pump on the filler cap. My old Svea didn't have the pump but I never had trouble getting it to light on the first try with the "fill the cup and light it" method -- at least, not after I'd practiced a couple of times.
If you use good quality aluminum bottles your total fuel weight for a given amount of cooking on a long trip is much less with white gas. (Long trip being more than one CG cartridge.)
Finally, the best reason to avoid CG cartridges -- because I darn near broke my neck after stepping on one some jerk left in a wilderness campsite near the Chain Lakes in the Sierras in '90! :mad: (Edited to add) Actually, this is a pretty big problem in some areas, or was the last time I went backpacking, which happened to be that '90 trip. And it's kind of understandable. I mean, I'm of the ("take nothing but pictures and try not to leave footprints") set, but, honestly, there have been a couple of times near the end of a long trip that, had I been carrying empty CG cartridges instead of expensive empty fuel bottles, I'd have been mighty tempted to find a rock to hide them under!
Seriously, I guess these days, on a bike or on a short (one-cartridge) hike I'd probably use CG, but if I ever make another long hike you can bet there'll be a Svea in my pack (provided they still sell them, I gave all my backpacking stuff away after a heart attack in '98).
John
Have you ever used white gas before? It sucks
Yes, I have, and no, it doesn't :) You can't blame buying cheap bottles on the fuel!
You will get a little discoloration on pots but only a little if the burner is adjusted right. Most people that see a lot of soot are cranking the burner all the way up to a yellow flame. You actually get less heat and more soot that way.
Actually, from the experience you describe it almost sounds like you tried to use kerosene, either that or you got some really bad fuel -- maybe with a lot of water in it -- or possibly had a defective or damaged stove (if you bend the vents in the burner you'll get really strange results).
Lighting some of the stoves is a bit tricky the first time or two, but most have pumps to pressurize the tank, now. I think even the new (last 20 years) Svea 123s have a little pump on the filler cap. My old Svea didn't have the pump but I never had trouble getting it to light on the first try with the "fill the cup and light it" method -- at least, not after I'd practiced a couple of times.
If you use good quality aluminum bottles your total fuel weight for a given amount of cooking on a long trip is much less with white gas. (Long trip being more than one CG cartridge.)
Finally, the best reason to avoid CG cartridges -- because I darn near broke my neck after stepping on one some jerk left in a wilderness campsite near the Chain Lakes in the Sierras in '90! :mad: (Edited to add) Actually, this is a pretty big problem in some areas, or was the last time I went backpacking, which happened to be that '90 trip. And it's kind of understandable. I mean, I'm of the ("take nothing but pictures and try not to leave footprints") set, but, honestly, there have been a couple of times near the end of a long trip that, had I been carrying empty CG cartridges instead of expensive empty fuel bottles, I'd have been mighty tempted to find a rock to hide them under!
Seriously, I guess these days, on a bike or on a short (one-cartridge) hike I'd probably use CG, but if I ever make another long hike you can bet there'll be a Svea in my pack (provided they still sell them, I gave all my backpacking stuff away after a heart attack in '98).
John
HalfHearted
01-19-03, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by Brains
Gaz and white fuel may be availabe 'anyplace' in the USA but if you ever intend on using the stove in the rest of the planet then the ability to run on parafin/kerosine/meths/ and petrol or diesel is a big advantage.
That's a good point. If I ever get a chance to tour Europe or some other third world place I'll have to keep it in mind :lol:
John (grinnin', duckin', and runnin' for cover)
Gaz and white fuel may be availabe 'anyplace' in the USA but if you ever intend on using the stove in the rest of the planet then the ability to run on parafin/kerosine/meths/ and petrol or diesel is a big advantage.
That's a good point. If I ever get a chance to tour Europe or some other third world place I'll have to keep it in mind :lol:
John (grinnin', duckin', and runnin' for cover)
sakarias
01-20-03, 01:43 PM
Hillyman,
I have used one of those stoves (an Optimua 8R model) for thirty years. Still going strong. I bought it instead of the Svea type (pictured in Halfhearted's post) because of the lower center of gravity. Seemed like I would be less likely to tip the thing over. The box seems to fit into my "square" packs better than round(?).
The instructions call for using white gas to prime it, warming the tank to get it to trickle out into the priming cup. I gave up on that after I discovered how hard it is to warm the tank on a winter mountaineering trip. ALSO, white gas is kind of dangerous out in the open.
My solution, which I have used on all kinds of trips with this stove from bike to backpack to sea kayaking (hundreds and hundreds of meals cooked) is to take a small flip top bottle of alcohol and squirt some of that into the priming cup. Alcohol is less "explosive" burns clean so it doesn't soot up the stove. The bottle I use is something that contained contact lens solution of some sort. I've been using THAT bottle for 20 years. Hmmm. I have a lot of old stuff I still use.
I still use this stove, but have moved to an MSR Whisperlite, which weighs less; and, the fuel bottle does not get HOT like on the Optimus 8R.
On bike touring trips, I have always opted to do with out a stove, period. We find we can create a great variety of suitable meals from what we can find in grocery stores along the way. We save the hassle and weight of the stove, fuel bottles, pots and clean-up. We've done bikes trips in the Canadian Rockies (and vicinity) of 4-6 weeks without a stove and did just fine. (We aren't coffee drinkers so don't have that need for a stove.)
I have used one of those stoves (an Optimua 8R model) for thirty years. Still going strong. I bought it instead of the Svea type (pictured in Halfhearted's post) because of the lower center of gravity. Seemed like I would be less likely to tip the thing over. The box seems to fit into my "square" packs better than round(?).
The instructions call for using white gas to prime it, warming the tank to get it to trickle out into the priming cup. I gave up on that after I discovered how hard it is to warm the tank on a winter mountaineering trip. ALSO, white gas is kind of dangerous out in the open.
My solution, which I have used on all kinds of trips with this stove from bike to backpack to sea kayaking (hundreds and hundreds of meals cooked) is to take a small flip top bottle of alcohol and squirt some of that into the priming cup. Alcohol is less "explosive" burns clean so it doesn't soot up the stove. The bottle I use is something that contained contact lens solution of some sort. I've been using THAT bottle for 20 years. Hmmm. I have a lot of old stuff I still use.
I still use this stove, but have moved to an MSR Whisperlite, which weighs less; and, the fuel bottle does not get HOT like on the Optimus 8R.
On bike touring trips, I have always opted to do with out a stove, period. We find we can create a great variety of suitable meals from what we can find in grocery stores along the way. We save the hassle and weight of the stove, fuel bottles, pots and clean-up. We've done bikes trips in the Canadian Rockies (and vicinity) of 4-6 weeks without a stove and did just fine. (We aren't coffee drinkers so don't have that need for a stove.)
Phatman
01-20-03, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by HalfHearted
Actually, from the experience you describe it almost sounds like you tried to use kerosene, either that or you got some really bad fuel -- maybe with a lot of water in it -- or possibly had a defective or damaged stove (if you bend the vents in the burner you'll get really strange results).
John
well, i wasn't using kero, I wasn't cranking it up too high, and my stove wasn't damaged. I was using a brand new MSR whisperlite stove. It is possible that there was crummy fuel. I just got it from the rangers at the park I was at.
Another reason I hate white gas is sort of like your CG story. While trying to light my whisperlite for the first time, I filled the cup and didn't turn the nozzle off enough. I lit the cup, and it flared up, but the fuel was still flowing, and I didn't realize! the cup overflowed, the flame got about 2 feet tall, and then the wind blew it towards the fuel bottle. The pump that stickis in the bottle caught on fire :crash: before I could get a Nalgene bottle open and on the fire. After all, I thought it was SUPPOSED to flare up at first! :D I laugh about it now, but I almost set the stump on fire, and heck, nearly the whole forest!
I had to send it back to the company to get the pump replaced.
basically I had a new stove the next time. Luckily I was just on a weekend trip when this happend, I was testing out my gear for a ten day backpacking trip. I was carrying mostly dehydrated stuff, so being w/o a stove would're really sucked.
Even though I know how to use a white gas stove now, I still am leary.
Actually, from the experience you describe it almost sounds like you tried to use kerosene, either that or you got some really bad fuel -- maybe with a lot of water in it -- or possibly had a defective or damaged stove (if you bend the vents in the burner you'll get really strange results).
John
well, i wasn't using kero, I wasn't cranking it up too high, and my stove wasn't damaged. I was using a brand new MSR whisperlite stove. It is possible that there was crummy fuel. I just got it from the rangers at the park I was at.
Another reason I hate white gas is sort of like your CG story. While trying to light my whisperlite for the first time, I filled the cup and didn't turn the nozzle off enough. I lit the cup, and it flared up, but the fuel was still flowing, and I didn't realize! the cup overflowed, the flame got about 2 feet tall, and then the wind blew it towards the fuel bottle. The pump that stickis in the bottle caught on fire :crash: before I could get a Nalgene bottle open and on the fire. After all, I thought it was SUPPOSED to flare up at first! :D I laugh about it now, but I almost set the stump on fire, and heck, nearly the whole forest!
I had to send it back to the company to get the pump replaced.
basically I had a new stove the next time. Luckily I was just on a weekend trip when this happend, I was testing out my gear for a ten day backpacking trip. I was carrying mostly dehydrated stuff, so being w/o a stove would're really sucked.
Even though I know how to use a white gas stove now, I still am leary.
HalfHearted
01-20-03, 06:49 PM
Originally posted by Phatman
...the fuel was still flowing, and I didn't realize! the cup overflowed, the flame got about 2 feet tall, and then the wind blew it towards the fuel bottle
Yeah, I gotta admit, if my first experience with the Svea had been like that I probably wouldn't be such a white gas fan :lol:
John
...the fuel was still flowing, and I didn't realize! the cup overflowed, the flame got about 2 feet tall, and then the wind blew it towards the fuel bottle
Yeah, I gotta admit, if my first experience with the Svea had been like that I probably wouldn't be such a white gas fan :lol:
John
pokey
01-20-03, 06:54 PM
Get an EMS pocket Rocket.No hassle,feather light and isobutane even works at over 11,000'.Case closed.
hillyman
01-21-03, 05:01 PM
Thanks for all of the info! Some strong opinions on each type. I just camp a few weekends on my bike so I don't need anything too fancy. I'm just using a sterno stove now. The alcohol type seems to interest me most,but all are neat gadgets. I wonder if your choice of stove says what type of bike you have. Alcohol-gasoline; steel frame, Butane-bottled gas; Aauminum:D
pokey
01-21-03, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by hillyman
Thanks for all of the info! Some strong opinions on each type. I just camp a few weekends on my bike so I don't need anything too fancy. I'm just using a sterno stove now. The alcohol type seems to interest me most,but all are neat gadgets. I wonder if your choice of stove says what type of bike you have. Alcohol-gasoline; steel frame, Butane-bottled gas; Aauminum:D I can relate to the alcohol,but only if it be cheap whiskey,and no about the other part.
Thanks for all of the info! Some strong opinions on each type. I just camp a few weekends on my bike so I don't need anything too fancy. I'm just using a sterno stove now. The alcohol type seems to interest me most,but all are neat gadgets. I wonder if your choice of stove says what type of bike you have. Alcohol-gasoline; steel frame, Butane-bottled gas; Aauminum:D I can relate to the alcohol,but only if it be cheap whiskey,and no about the other part.
temp1
01-21-03, 09:06 PM
http://www.msrcorp.com/home.asp
Check out their stoves, they are in my oppinion the best. I purchased a Whisperlite international (burns most fuels unleaded, diesel, ect.) at an REI scratch and dent sale for $30 a few years ago and have used it for thousands of hours in all conditions, over 12000 feet, well below zero F, and in high wind. It has never faltered, but if it did it is easily rebuildable. One of the best purchases I have ever made, a true workhorse. I like using a white gas stove because white gas is so useful and it burns very clean. I run a small lantern with it, use it to light wet wood, you can clean with it in a pinch, but whatever you do, do not put it in a zippo, you will set your arm on fire, it can only be used under compression. The black soot on your pots is good, your food cooks faster, most experienced backpackers have black pots and get angry it you scrub them. The fuel bottles are not expensive and come in a variety of sizes for trips of different duration, I can use (if frugel) one 975 ml bottle for 5 people for 5 days breakfast and dinner. Operating this stove is a bit of an art and people develope unnatural attachments to them. Lastly, MSR is a great company that makes great stuff, good luck
Check out their stoves, they are in my oppinion the best. I purchased a Whisperlite international (burns most fuels unleaded, diesel, ect.) at an REI scratch and dent sale for $30 a few years ago and have used it for thousands of hours in all conditions, over 12000 feet, well below zero F, and in high wind. It has never faltered, but if it did it is easily rebuildable. One of the best purchases I have ever made, a true workhorse. I like using a white gas stove because white gas is so useful and it burns very clean. I run a small lantern with it, use it to light wet wood, you can clean with it in a pinch, but whatever you do, do not put it in a zippo, you will set your arm on fire, it can only be used under compression. The black soot on your pots is good, your food cooks faster, most experienced backpackers have black pots and get angry it you scrub them. The fuel bottles are not expensive and come in a variety of sizes for trips of different duration, I can use (if frugel) one 975 ml bottle for 5 people for 5 days breakfast and dinner. Operating this stove is a bit of an art and people develope unnatural attachments to them. Lastly, MSR is a great company that makes great stuff, good luck