Touring - Group sets for Touring

I am just in the process of building a new touring bike and would like to receive some knowledgeable information on group sets. I have selected the Marinoni, Tourismo frame and thinking about using either the Campagnolo Veloce group or the Shimano 105 group. Anybody have ideas about the pros and cons of these group sets or any other good ideas on assembling a good strong dependable steed?
Gordon P.

What kind of touring do you want to do?

For touring, even credit-card touring as opposed to randonneuring (sp?), you need a low gear in the mid 20s (gear-inches). At the minimum, it means a cassette that drops to 32 or 34, such as the wide range 11-32 cassette. Since most tourers don't need high gears much higher than 100 - 110 gear-inches, a cassette such as Sheldon Brown's Cyclotouriste (see http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/k7.html) with 14-34 cogs is a perfect setup, because it offers close ratios at the top.

If you are indeed looking at loaded touring, you could use an 11-32 cassette with the standard 52-42-30 Shimano 105 drivetrain, but with a 26 granny instead of the 30. Or you could ask for a compact drivetrain such as those found on MTBs. Bruce Gordon offers what many tourers consider to be an ideal setup. Explore http://www.bgcycles.com to see the kind of gears offered there.

Regards,

Yeah,what he said.Depends on type of touring and gearing you need.

Thanks for the replies. Right now I am living in the flatlands with few hills, but I have toured in hills and mountains. Most of my touring is done loaded with 20 –30 Kg. of camping equipment etc. distributed between the front, back panniers and handlebar-bag. The 105 components are completely interchangeable with Dura-Ace and Ultegra, making it easier to do repairs and to up-grade. With the Campagnolo group set, however, I understand this is not the case. Another option is to go with the Ultegra set or with the Campagnolo Centaur set. Durability and reliability are my main concerns with accessibility to replacement parts my third.
Good chainrings by Blackspire and Raceface are available locally, so I guess I could change for the road conditions as needed.

Thanks,
Gordon P.

Definitely go with Shimano... They've got more than 75% of the market out there, so it's easier to find parts when you're in the boonies... As an anecdote, I was touring in Italy in 2001 and needed a bearing cap for my old (but loved) Campagnolo pedals... and couldn't find any... even in Italy !!!

I've got well over 20,000 kms on my ultegra (triple front 53/42/30 and 12-27 cassette) and found the gear combination to be adequate over any terrain (Pyrennees, Alps, Rifs, Rockies, etc...). My only complaint is with the durability of the chainrings... they wear fast and I'm currently looking for alternatives. When I do find, I might change to a small 28 chainring instead of the 30, also, I'm trying out an 11-28 titanium cassette (though the original ultegra steel cassette is very durable) from Cycle Dynamics (very reasonably priced and appears well-made).

Originally posted by Gordon P
The 105 components are completely interchangeable with Dura-Ace and Ultegra, making it easier to do repairs and to up-grade. With the Campagnolo group set, however, I understand this is not the case. All 10 speed campy interchanges, as does all 9 speed.There is even intercompatibility betweed 9 and 10 with cranks and derailers.Shimano is better in the sense that it is mor available and you cam use MTB cassettes and RD for more diverse gearing options.

If it were me (and it is, on two of my bikes) I'd go with a hybrid of road and MTB components. Use the 105 on the front, with a triple crankset, and use an LX or XT rear derailleur with a 12-32 or 12-34 cassette in back.

You sacrifice the close increments of a road racing cassette, but you don't give up anything in terms of potential speed when riding lightly loaded on the flats. But you have low enough gears when loaded for the sort of mild climbing you describe.

The 105 RD is supposed to take no more than a 27-tooth cog. I've used a 30 with a Tiagra RD, which has the same specs as a 105, but I wouldn't push it any higher than that.

Your frame will want road hubs; something like an Ultegra hub with a Mavic 520 rim and Wheelsmith 14/15 spokes will build up into a touring wheel that will last indefinitely.

I looked up your frame, but couldn't find any geometry on it. Is that really a lugged steel frame with fork and headset for CA$675? Sweet!

RichC

As I suggested, Bruce Gordon (http://www.bgcycles.com) gives you an idea of what could be an ideal gearing for a touring bike. And with the loads you have in mind, you definitely look at real "touring bike gears", as you will be carrying loads for long distances.

With that in mind, I would discard Campagnolo. Even with their 10-speeds, they hardly have any low-enough lows for loaded touring. Besides, Shimano is easier to find everywhere. The only place where you might favour Campagnolo is with the integrated shifters and brake levers. Campagnolo offers Ergo, while Shimano offers STI. Both have their quirks and their fans, and it is possible to use Ergo shifters with a Shimano drivetrain; there is some adaptation/tweaking to do (so inquire), but I don't know exactly what it is. BTW, I am a fan of bar-end levers and of downtube levers... which are available from both manufacturers.

For your type of riding, you might aim for close ratios at the top and widely spaced ratios at the bottom, because you won't be climbing steep hills all the time. Two options:
- Shimano 105 crankset, where you will substitute the "30" granny for a "26" (about $20-30, and it might be swapped at the bike shop). With that, the ideal would be Sheldon's cyclotouriste cassette, with 14-34 cogs: cogs at the top are close to eachother, which is good when riding in the plains.
- Shimano LX or XT crankset, with 44-34-22 rings. With the typical 11-32 cassette, this will give you super-low gears for touring, but still high enough gears for riding on the flats with a backwind. If your bike comes stock with 11-32, you might elect to keep that cassette for mountain tours and use 11-25 for your rides on flatter grounds (or compromise with an 11-28 cassette).

Whatever option you choose, get "mountain" hubs, because they are better sealed and rear spacing is 135 mm, which means stronger wheels than road spacing (130 mm). Besides, LX and XT hubs are better sealed from the dust (LX is equivalent quality to 105), and get an LX or XT rear derailleur (slightly longer cage). BTW, there is no technical difference between road and mountain cassettes, nor is there any incompatibility between road and mountain rear derailleurs..

In fact, unless you get a really good deal on a full gruppo like the 105, you probably shout not take all your parts from the same gruppo when you design your touring bike.

Regards,

I am starting to see clearly now! Yeah the Cycles Marinoni frame came highly recommended by a local bike tech for a number of reasons. 1. Columbus Zona tubing 2. excellent reputation 3. well built 4. made to measure frame 5. colour selection 6. I can build it with the parts I want.
So it looks like Shimano is more versatile then Campagnolo, but I’m now interested going hybrid in mixing components as all of you advise. (This may also be a good time to buy a bike off the rack)!
First issue however is what gear ratio to pick and whether to go with 8 or 9 speed.
Julien recommends a 12/27 or 11/28 with 28/42/53
Rich proposes a 12/32 or 12/34 with the standard 30/42/52
Michel suggests 11-32 or the S.B. 14/34 with 26/42/52 chain-ring set. Or going with Mtb configurations. This appeals to me and I am interested in going with locally engineered Raceface or Blackspire components - like the 7000 series chain rings, BB, cranks and avoid the sub-standard Shimano chain rings. I toured with my Mtb and found the 11-30 20/32/42 inadequate. Raceface’s standard (110/74 BCD) chain ring come in 24,26,34,36,46,48 I’m not at all sure what hub would work with say a 26/36/48 combo. Any coments?
Thanks for the advice!
Gordon P.

I really like the Shimano road triple crankset but with 48/38/26 rings and an 11-32 cassette. 48x11 is plenty big enough for fast road riding and 26x32 will get me over most any hill.

Gordon,

I think you'll have to decide exactly how low you want your gears. One way to look at it is to look at what you have on your present bike and the type of hills you can do easily. Also, a typical bicycle-tourist would spin the pedals at 70-90 rpm. You may use http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears to compare the gears you have with those of a prospective bike.

My touring bike has a XT cransket with 44-34-22, and a customised 12-32 9-speed cassette, made of the original 11-30 8-speed cassette, a 14-32 7-speed cassette I have on another bike and a 13-25 9-speed cassette.
I have the following ratios:
12-14-15-16-17-19-21-25-32
which means close ratios in the ranges I use the most (43-85 gear-inches, or 28-85 gear-inches if I include the granny), with 2 lower "bail-out" gears and one higher gear for the rare times I have a stong wind at my back.

I know 7- and 8-speed cogs are slightly thicker than 9-speed cogs, but a little filing made them ok for the freehub. Besides, I still have the original 8-speed bar-end shifters... that I use in friction mode.

Regards,

There is no ideal touring groupset, you have to mix-n-match to get the system right for your style of riding.
My touring bike started life as Campy Mirage 8speed. I changed the campy cogset for Marchisio, so I could chose my own ratios, and was able to get a 28t largest ring. You can alter the width of the spacing to make any hub compatable with any matched shifter/mech system, but if you mix shifters and mechs thing can get more complex. torelli.com has more info
I changed some of the chainrings , but was limitted to a 26 by the BCD, and it never worked well. This summer I swapped it for a Shimano LX chainset (with BB). The Campy shifter and mech handle it well. Im not too bothered about 8/9/10 speed. 8 is sufficient for me.
IMHO, a touring chainset should be able to cope with small granny rings and a 34t middle, even if you dont use that size. You may want to tour on trails or mountains at some point. I would probably chose a Specialities-TA chainset if I had the cash, you can chose any size cogs you like. See peter white cycles website (.com whatever)
For hubs, I would avoid Campy, the bearing placement is wrong, which is a shame, since they adjust so easily. Go for Shimano MTB ones. Phill Woods or Chris King hubs are good, but way too expensive. Take care to match the width to your frame (130 or 135mm).
For shifters, my Ergos have worked well, and the front is more versatile than a Shimano style, but I always carry a spare downtube shifter on long tours.
As far as manufacturers spares go, you are more likely to find a whole replacement part in a bike shop (eg a low-end Shimano mech) rather than a small sub-component, so make sure your system can handle replacements. Campy have a better policy of spares (10 years support), but getting them can be a bother.

I would also recomend the Bruce Gorden BLT as the model of a well specked, ready to tour bike.

I agree with Willic, but would say that I've toured for years on doubles only, but have now swapped to a combo of a Stronglight chainset 50-40-30 and a 14 - 30 rear.

I lock out the inner chainring for commuting as I don't use it.

Mixing is fine. My wife's new Roberts came with a TA chainset (46-36-26) and a 12-28 9 speed rear, with veloce ergo shifters and mechs.

She has Shimano MTB hubs (135 rear) but as I have an aversion to all things Shimano, my new wheels are Mavic 520's on Hope hubs. Not cheap but should be good. My old Campag hubs have run well for 20 odd years, but I think the quality of the new ones is not so good.

have fun choosing. :)