Classic & Vintage - Raleigh bottom bracket problem

Ok, don't laugh and be kind...please.

I have been doing maintenance on my bikes for years, but admit the more difficult items I usually let the bike shop handle. Before my Dad passed away, he gave me his Raleigh "Roadmaster" 3spd. I haven't been able to find much on the bike except that it was probably a entry level item and that the S-A hub indicates it is probably a 1979 model (date stamp is 12-78). I was pretty snobbish about the bike and just let it sit for ten years moving it from shed to garage...then back again. But, after he passed away, I decided to take another look at it. Well, since he had hardly riden the bike, it was in really great shape with the exception of rusting handlbars. It looked like an easy project.

I stripped the components from the bike and spent three weekends cleaning and greasing everything...plus ordering some replacement parts, including handlebars from Harris. Except for a couple of scratches here and there, the bike shines like it was just purchased and rides great...except for one item.

The problem is every time I ride the bike, the bottom bracket retainer starts working loose and the crank begins to wobble. It has gotten to the point that I keep a wrench and goose-neck pliers with me and stop about every mile and tighten everything back up. I've put it on the repair stand and adjusted and tightened everything as tight as I can, but it still comes loose.

Is there something obvious (or not so obvious) that I'm missing? Some secret to this ancient ball bearing assembly that I'm not aware of?

Are you missing the locking ring?

Are you missing the locking ring?


Nope. By "retainer", I meant lockring. That is what starts working loose first. When the wobbling starts, I can reach down and turn the lockring with my fingers.

Now that's an interesting case. What kind of tool are you using to tighten down that lock ring? I suppose if it's not the right pin tool, you just aren't tightening it enough. Otherwise, it seems the bottom bracket axle isn't moving freely in the cups/bearings. Did you overhaul the BB?

Neal

Well, Neal, that's a good question...and maybe an embarrassing one for me. Of all the tools in my bike tool box, nothing seemed to be made to fit this lockring. I'm sure there is a tool for it somewhere, I've learned that whether it is cars or bikes, there is a tool for every special circumstance. The first few times, I may not have tightened it enough since, without a special tool, I didn't want to mar an otherwise pristine finish. By the sixth or seventh time, I was tightening it with a pair of goose-necks borrowed from one of my techs.

I did remove the BB and cleaned the old grease from everything (it had turned into the consistency of toothpaste and was just as effective) and reassembled it in the reverse of how it came apart. It did reuse the ball bearings...and I'll tell you why.

Dad bought this bike and had a analog speedometer/odometer installed on it. He put all of 9 miles on this bike before he gave it to me in 1996. Everything was original and like new, just dirty and out of adjustment.

I'm putting it back in the air tomoorrow afternoon and taking another shot at it.

This might be sacrilege for some, but in a pinch you can use a drift punch and a hammer to tighten down that lockring. Don't hit it with full force, but that old steel can take quite a bit. Good luck.

Neal

This might be sacrilege for some, but in a pinch you can use a drift punch and a hammer to tighten down that lockring. Don't hit it with full force, but that old steel can take quite a bit. Good luck.

Neal

Uhhhhh...

Actually that's how I tightened it the first few times until I decided it was working.:)

It may depend on your tool. I've found the park lockring wrench to be just on this side of completely useless. For BB lockrings, I vastly prefer either the Var lockring pliers or the Hozan c205 lockring tool. It sound like the lockring isn't properly tighted. You need to hold the fixed (edit: I mean the adjustable cup, duh) cup in place, usually with a pin spanner, as you tighten the lockring, if you're not already doing this.

It may depend on your tool. I've found the park lockring wrench to be just on this side of completely useless. For BB lockrings, I vastly prefer either the Var lockring pliers or the Hozan c205 lockring tool. It sound like the lockring isn't properly tighted. You need to hold the fixed cup in place, usually with a pin spanner, as you tighten the lockring, if you're not already doing this.

pogue's got this one. Most likely you are overtightening the bearings on the spindle. Take the crank off, then tighten the cup to the "right tighteness, (this is almost no play in the spindle), also you can leave it a little loose, then tighten down the lock ring while holding the cup in place there should be ridges (on a raleigh) that a pair of channel locks will grab, then when the lock ring is trightened (using your channel locks), check your spindle to see if it wiggles to much. If it wiggles a tiny bit and turns good then good! take those channel locks (you can drop the cresent wrench if it is a little wiggly) and turn the lock ring hard, but carefully watch the cup make sure it moves not at all or until the spindle is in the sweet spot.

Recheck the spindle it should spin smoothly, but feel firm (remember your footforce is much stronger than your hand force, especially with the leverage of the crank arm.

If it still comes loose try loctite on the lock ring

Well, I apologize. I didn't take the time to work on the Raleigh this past weekend, so I can't report that I successfully cured the problem. My bike shop also doubles as a photo studio and I had business to take care of first.

It is, I'm sure, a problem with not having the proper tools. I haven't "worked" in a bike shop since I hung out at California Pedaler in Danville, Ca and that was twenty plus years ago. I really don't what I was thinking when I tightened that lock ring, but after reading the replies here I did some research. Sure enough, as soon as I saw the some of the tools mentioned, it was "oh, I remember now". Duh. Since my old Hardrock has basically the same set up and I haven't had a problem with it, I figured there was some trick or technique for the Raleigh that I didn't know. Turns out, it was just luck with the HR. The proper tool is on order.

Totally embarrassing, but I wouldn't have remembered if you guys hadn't taken the time to jog my memory. This is what happens when you stop riding for almost 15 years, except for the occasional ride around the block.

Thanks.

.... I haven't "worked" in a bike shop since I hung out at California Pedaler in Danville, Ca and that was twenty plus years ago....

Hey, I was just by there today! Small world.....

Hey, I was just by there today! Small world.....

I looked it up online once and couldn't find anything on it, so I figured it had closed. If my memory isn't cheating me again, the owner's name was Jerry...he used to drive this ancient Mercedes...like 1961 or something. I was guessing he sold out and retired.

Well....it took a while to find the time, but I finally got around to checking out the Raleigh.

The new tool didn't seem to stop the "sensation" of a wobble, but it did stop the locking from coming loose. In the end, it seems that when I reassembled the bike, I forgot to tighten the crankarm pin nuts. Last Sunday, I sat for ten minutes staring at the BB and crank trying to figure out what was going on. I truly couldn't have adjusted the BB any better, but after a mile or so, still got the wobble feel.

On a hunch (or sheer chance) I reached out with the adjustable wrench I was holding and tried one of the pin nuts. Sure enough, loose as a goose...both sides...which made it feel like the BB was wobbling. Dumb mistake.

Anyway, just wanted to thank everyone for the advice and to let you know the outcome.

Thanks again.

Glad to hear you worked it out!
For future reference, if you work on those cotters:

Drawing them tight with the nuts can strip the threaded portions of the cotters. It is better to lightly tap the cotter into the taper, or preferrably to press it into the crank arm with the special tool. Tightening the nut would be the last step, like a failsafe if the pin should work loose.

But hey, I can't argue with success:D Thanks for the update.

I lightly tapped them in, but not as far as I should have I guess. I wanted to avoid having to drill them out again like I had to when I disassembled the bike. Real pain, but evidently a common problem.

(I probably still don't have them in tight enough, but I'm not going any further until they give me another problem).