Touring - Brooks B17...I have been patient...

So I have about 2000km on the lovely Honey B17. It looks awesome on the new bike and it still smells great. What could possibly be wrong with this picture? My butt hurts that's what! I think I am starting to see the earliest signs of the famed "dimples" - light stress marks and a bit of a darkening around the sit bone area ('bout as dark as the bruising on my butt) but it is still tough to sit on.

I am worried. I leave on a 2500km, 4 week tour in just 5 weeks. Is this thing gonna do it for me or will it defeat me half way through the trip? I am starting to consider replacing it but with what? Any suggestions? Should I concentrate on plumping up my boney arse? Or just be a man and tough it out?

Are you a featherweight?
If so, take a ballpin hammer to those dimple ghosts... GENTLY!

So I have about 2000km on the lovely Honey B17. It looks awesome on the new bike and it still smells great. What could possibly be wrong with this picture? My butt hurts that's what! I think I am starting to see the earliest signs of the famed "dimples" - light stress marks and a bit of a darkening around the sit bone area ('bout as dark as the bruising on my butt) but it is still tough to sit on.

I am worried. I leave on a 2500km, 4 week tour in just 5 weeks. Is this thing gonna do it for me or will it defeat me half way through the trip? I am starting to consider replacing it but with what? Any suggestions? Should I concentrate on plumping up my boney arse? Or just be a man and tough it out?

2000km, and no break-in yet? I feel very sorry for your butt. I sure hope you bring a lot of pain-killers on your long trip.

I have always felt that the Brooks are not only over-rated, but more importantly, they are definitely not for everyone. A non-squishy, reasonably firm saddle that supports the seatbones is all one needs.

Good luck.

Regards,

Are you a featherweight?
If so, take a ballpin hammer to those dimple ghosts... GENTLY!
Featherweight? Ya, I guess...61kg/135lbs.

I dont think I could hit this seat with a hammer. Does it work? Dont I want the seat to form to my butt rather than to simply get a couple of dents?

Actually, I'll suggest you go quickly to your nearest Specialized dealer, have your seatbones measured, and then pick one of the Body Geometry saddles. They are really good.

Regards,

Well you have it, so you may as well get it working for you. I went on a 1000 mile trip with 4km on the B17, and never had a moments difficult. I located where the sit bones where and wacked that area with a mallet. All you need to do is overcome the resistance of that small area of the seat. It isn't necesarry, or desireable, to create the sit bone depressions, just to ease the leather to the point where it will comply.

Leather is a hobby of mine and I used to stretch hiking boots etc... I know what happens when the clerk disappears off the floor with your boots in hand. He takes them to a hydraulic boot stretcher, and it isn't a gentle process. People act as though the Brooks is some mysterious device. It's really simple: thick, hard leather, in a convex shape. On the other side is various amounts of weight and bonyness. You either easily exceed the strength of the Brooks arch, or you don't. Toughing it out is a little like not adjusting you suspension if it is too hard, and just hoping the springs will wear in.

While Brooks seems to suggest their Proofhide will soften leather, To me that is the same as taking a hot flame to your suspension springs and knocking the temper out of them. You paid big bucks to get the best leather, to turn around and soften it is not something I would do. Water in the sitbones area is not as big a problem because it will dry out, though I prefer the mild use of force. Thatis, afterall, what breaking in is, in some cases too mild a force.

I could tell you my secret for a quick break-in ......... but then I'd have to kill you. :lol:




BTW - The Specialized mentioned above is definitely NOT for everyone ... I've got one on my trainer and it just kills me every time I try to ride it. The thing is, I know it will NEVER break in. As soon as I can afford it, I'll be replacing it with a Brooks.

So Kill me. I think I am gonna die with this seat anyway.

I have a split Secialized Body Geometry saddle on my old Cannondale. Nice seat on shortish rides but once it gets up to 75km or so it REALLY hurts. The Brooks hurts less, all the time. Having said that, I think I may swap in the Specialized saddle for a short 3 day trip in a couple weeks just to see if its really that bad.

Should I really whack this seat? It sounds, well, cruel.

So Kill me. I think I am gonna die with this seat anyway.

I have a split Secialized Body Geometry saddle on my old Cannondale. Nice seat on shortish rides but once it gets up to 75km or so it REALLY hurts. The Brooks hurts less, all the time. Having said that, I think I may swap in the Specialized saddle for a short 3 day trip in a couple weeks just to see if its really that bad.

Should I really whack this seat? It sounds, well, cruel.

Here's a hint ... read my 1000K story: http://www.machka.net/1000/1000km.htm
Pay particular attention to the weather, and the comments at the end of the story.

Before that ride I had 400 kms on my B-17 and serious doubts about my ability to ride a 1000K randonnee on that saddle. But about 400 kms into the ride (right around Neepawa) the saddle broke in. In fact, the butt grooves were HUGE!! I was worried they were a bit too big, but everything tightened up later and it was OK.


Another hint ... one of the suggestions given to people breaking in cowboy boots or motorcycling boots is to fill them with water and walk around in them for a day. Now ... what was the weather like in my 1000K story, especially on the way to Neepawa???? :D

BTW - The Specialized mentioned above is definitely NOT for everyone ... I've got one on my trainer and it just kills me every time I try to ride it. As soon as I can afford it, I'll be replacing it with a Brooks.

I can definitely agree that different saddles fit people differently. I happen to like the Specialized, and it works for me. Another saddle that has worked great for me since about 1994 is the Selle San Marco Rolls. I have had the Selle for a while, and it could be that I am used to it now. The Selle is not too hard, nor too soft.

Saddles, in my view, are very personal. I have tried to use a Brooks B17 before, but I had to pack it in. It just was not working for me.

I'll tell you one other thing I started doing a while back that has made my cycling more enjoyable. I started using Vaseline Petroleum Jelly Cream as chamois cream. I just slather it all over my rear end and where my legs meet my torso, and all is well. The cream is different from the regular vaseline jelly, and it is also water-based, thus making cleaning off a cinch. I buy the 4.5oz tube for $2.99 at Target. Great stuff.

Regards,

The advantage that beating on them has over water is that it is very controlable. You upset a specific area and nothing more, the rest is left full strength while you work your way into the depressions. Water will soften everything equaly, depending on how much finish there is. If you want to wet silver dollar sized areas that would be different.

People seem to think that water or oil are all a walk in the park for leather, but a little force is radical. That's just a lock of knowledge of the materials. I'm not saying water won't work, I am saying it's a bigger roll of the dice. Hammer followed up by waxing the heck out of the outside and underside and keeping it covered during rain, seems a lot more responsible than no hammer and just letting the thing get soaked. you also won't be riding on a wet saddle.

Also the amount of force require to soften the sit bone area starts at slightly more than your as$ is applying. I mean if it isn't comfortable now, then you as$ is not getting the job done. I imagine that if you sat on your hands you wouldn't break your knuckles, so don't hit the saddle much harder than you would like your hands to be hit. If you aren't having any effect, up the pressure a little. When I wacked my saddle a few hits total, it left barely visible marks in the finish, and no marks in the saddle itself. The surface of the saddle was still convex, but it was limbered up enough to settle in on my first ride. Heck you could probably do it by leaning forcefully on your thumbs or knuckles. The key is to switch from hoping light force over a longer period of time will get you there, to using more force over a shorter time.

Assuming we all get somewhat similar saddles to start with; assuming your saddle isn't yet comfortable because, as you said, it didn't seem to have depressions in it; then the only reason you aren't getting comfortable from the start is because you applied less force than someone else.

What makes the saddle comfortable is when the surface breaks under your bones, each bone is supported in it's own little leather hammock. The framework around that "hammock" is the leather that remains underformed. That's why you don't want to soften the whole thing.

I use small amounts of Penaten, and I use proper cycling inserts in my pants/shorts on any long trips. Based aditionally on three babies, so far, Penaten is magic. Overnight I use polysporin on any nasties.

I think that if a Brooks isn't comfortable right out of the box (maybe a bit hard, but still comfortable), then it's not set up quite right, or that particular model just isn't for you. The distance you've ridden so far is more than enough to break in any Brooks.

I use B.17s - very comfortable for me - but I never could (try as I might) get happy on the Team Pros.

I set my B.17s with the nose slightly higher (about 3 mm or so) than the back.

I use Proofide on the saddle two or three times in the first two weeks, then once or twice a year after that.

wallbike.com has a return policy, so you could try another model from them - the Team Pro, or a B.17n, for example.

If you get a Brooks working for you, it will be very nice. But they don't work for everyone.

The advantage that beating on them has over water is that it is very controlable. You upset a specific area and nothing more, the rest is left full strength while you work your way into the depressions. Water will soften everything equaly, depending on how much finish there is. If you want to wet silver dollar sized areas that would be different.

People seem to think that water or oil are all a walk in the park for leather, but a little force is radical. That's just a lock of knowledge of the materials. I'm not saying water won't work, I am saying it's a bigger roll of the dice. Hammer followed up by waxing the heck out of the outside and underside and keeping it covered during rain, seems a lot more responsible than no hammer and just letting the thing get soaked. you also won't be riding on a wet saddle.

What makes the saddle comfortable is when the surface breaks under your bones, each bone is supported in it's own little leather hammock. The framework around that "hammock" is the leather that remains underformed. That's why you don't want to soften the whole thing.


The thing is .... you're going to get caught in the rain eventually anyway. The saddle is going to be soaked at some point in its life anyway. I'm just saying that Brooks saddles can handle the water a lot better than a lot of people give them credit for ....... and it's just possible it helped me break mine in.

I would NOT suggest pouring water over the saddle and going for a ride though ... just do what we all normally do ... go for a ride in the rain with the saddle. :D

BTW - I am a light rider, who did not use a hammer to break my saddle .... but I now have those hammocks (I call them butt grooves) ... and each one is a slightly different shape because apparently my sitbones are slightly different shapes. They are perfect for me! :)

I have had a number of Brooks over the years (B15, B17, B72 & Pro)& all except 1 were broken in within 500 miles. The exception was a B17 special edition in green that seems to have thicker or tougher leather than all the others. It is just beginning to show dimples after over 2000 miles & it was caught in several rainstorms early on before I even had fenders on the bike. Got totally soaked But otherwise dried back to a "no change" condition. Perseverance will eventually accomplish the breakin but it appears both you & I need to give some help. I also have a Selle Italia Ecco that is unused because it broke in on only one side & remained brick hard on the other. I am going to try the mallet on both!

I'm a big believer in the idea that if it works it works. All I was decrying, machka, was the impression I get every time someone mentions the hammer that the hammer is a wild idea in comparison to more comon methods, like water or softening oil. It's most likely the saddle is formed into it's shape by water, certainly that would be one possible way of doing it. So if you get it wet enough you are rolling the dice that it will accept any shape. I've seen pictures, and I'm guessing you don't weigh 300 pounds. We do take the odd querry around here from people who do, and certainly guys in the 250 range are pretty comon. And, again, I'm not saying it will necesarilly be a disaster, but it's more radical to soak the seat and sit on it that to tap it into shape.

I did do about a week in filthy weather torential rain, left my bike outside in the rain at nights, and with grocery bag seat covers I never got the seat the least bit wet. Others do ride their brooks' in wet weather, without cover, one hopes with lots of wax. I'm sure it all worked for someone.

(For me softening oils are completely unacceptible, at least if used in amounts that would have any useful effect. Many of them also have the potential to go rancid. Doubtless there are synthetic options that don't.)

Ok, call me a heretic and send me to hell, but when I was desperate, I used the following method (which I have cut and pasted from Sheldon Brown's site) and motor oil and it worked. I soaked it for an hour in the hot sun using the following method:

"The easiest and fastest method to break in a new saddle is with a liquid leather dressing, such as neatsfoot oil, Lexol, seal oil (a French favorite) or baseball glove oil.. These products are available from shoe stores and sporting-goods stores. There are probably lots of other liquid oils that would work as well-RAAM pioneer Lon Haldeman uses SAE 30 motor oil, but his saddles tend to wear out after only 300,000 miles or so (according to Cyclist Magazine). Paste or wax type leather dressings, such as Brooks Proofide, Sno-Seal, and saddle soap will work, but it takes much, much longer to break in a saddle that way.

You can just pour the oil on and rub it in by hand, or for a more drastic approach, you can actually soak the saddle. The easiest way to soak a saddle is to turn it upside-down on a sheet of aluminum foil, then form the foil up around the saddle for a snug fit. Pour in a whole 4 ounce can of Neatsfoot oil or whatever oil you prefer, and let the saddle soak for 30 minutes to an hour. Pour the remaining oil back into the can, and wipe the excess oil off with a rag or paper towel. Install the saddle onto the bike, put on your black shorts, and ride. Even the most recalcitrant saddle (the thick-skinned Brooks Professional) will be substantially broken in within 200 miles or so.


The soaking technique is best for thick, hard-to-break in saddles such as the Brooks Professional. For most leather saddles the pour-and-rub technique is adequate. A saddle only needs baptism by immersion once. After that, some oil should be poured onto the saddle and rubbed in by hand every few weeks. Once the saddle has become soft and comfortable it is only necessary to oil it lightly every few months to keep it from drying out.
Most leather saddles are dyed black. Oiling the saddle will partially dissolve the dye, which will stain on your clothes. This is why cycling shorts are black. Wear light colors at your own risk! If you must wear day-glo pink shorts, put a seatcover on the saddle.

Light colored leather saddles, such as the Brooks "Honey" models, will be darkened by any treatment you apply."

Well you have it, so you may as well get it working for you. I went on a 1000 mile trip with 4km on the B17, and never had a moments difficult. I located where the sit bones where and wacked that area with a mallet. All you need to do is overcome the resistance of that small area of the seat. It isn't necesarry, or desireable, to create the sit bone depressions, just to ease the leather to the point where it will comply.

Leather is a hobby of mine and I used to stretch hiking boots etc... I know what happens when the clerk disappears off the floor with your boots in hand. He takes them to a hydraulic boot stretcher, and it isn't a gentle process. People act as though the Brooks is some mysterious device. It's really simple: thick, hard leather, in a convex shape. On the other side is various amounts of weight and bonyness. You either easily exceed the strength of the Brooks arch, or you don't. Toughing it out is a little like not adjusting you suspension if it is too hard, and just hoping the springs will wear in.

While Brooks seems to suggest their Proofhide will soften leather, To me that is the same as taking a hot flame to your suspension springs and knocking the temper out of them. You paid big bucks to get the best leather, to turn around and soften it is not something I would do. Water in the sitbones area is not as big a problem because it will dry out, though I prefer the mild use of force. Thatis, afterall, what breaking in is, in some cases too mild a force.

A very good analogy. Conditioners/softeners are not the way to go. Get to whacking on that thing - judiciously, of course. Especially if the rider is only 135lbs. My experience with Brooks is good. I'm 225 and the leather must give. Except in the case of a B-17 that was just too narrow for the bones.

The advantage that beating on them has over water is that it is very controlable. You upset a specific area and nothing more, the rest is left full strength while you work your way into the depressions. Water will soften everything equaly, depending on how much finish there is. If you want to wet silver dollar sized areas that would be different.

People seem to think that water or oil are all a walk in the park for leather, but a little force is radical. That's just a lock of knowledge of the materials. I'm not saying water won't work, I am saying it's a bigger roll of the dice. Hammer followed up by waxing the heck out of the outside and underside and keeping it covered during rain, seems a lot more responsible than no hammer and just letting the thing get soaked. you also won't be riding on a wet saddle.

Also the amount of force require to soften the sit bone area starts at slightly more than your as$ is applying. I mean if it isn't comfortable now, then you as$ is not getting the job done. I imagine that if you sat on your hands you wouldn't break your knuckles, so don't hit the saddle much harder than you would like your hands to be hit. If you aren't having any effect, up the pressure a little. When I wacked my saddle a few hits total, it left barely visible marks in the finish, and no marks in the saddle itself. The surface of the saddle was still convex, but it was limbered up enough to settle in on my first ride. Heck you could probably do it by leaning forcefully on your thumbs or knuckles. The key is to switch from hoping light force over a longer period of time will get you there, to using more force over a shorter time.

Assuming we all get somewhat similar saddles to start with; assuming your saddle isn't yet comfortable because, as you said, it didn't seem to have depressions in it; then the only reason you aren't getting comfortable from the start is because you applied less force than someone else.

What makes the saddle comfortable is when the surface breaks under your bones, each bone is supported in it's own little leather hammock. The framework around that "hammock" is the leather that remains underformed. That's why you don't want to soften the whole thing.

Peterpan1 knows his leather. But Machka is also right: Brooks saddles are not fragile. I use melted Sno-Seal on the underside of a warmed up saddle. Applied heavy with a cheap, small paintbrush. It doesn't soften but leaves a very water repellent piece of leather. A good boot wax on top to keep it slick.

Peterpan1 knows his leather. But Machka is also right: Brooks saddles are not fragile. I use melted Sno-Seal on the underside of a warmed up saddle. Applied heavy with a cheap, small paintbrush. It doesn't soften but leaves a very water repellent piece of leather. A good boot wax on top to keep it slick.

Went out this AM and rode 50 miles with a BRAND NEW Champion Flyer (that's a B-17 on springs). This is on my new straight bar road bike. I also have a Brooks B-67 on my tourer, and I rode it on the road bike for a day or two before the new saddle got here. The butt is okay, though a little chamois butter was in order at about miles 40, and I adjusted it probably six times on the ride and still don't have the seat/bike dialed in.

Last night after FedlEx delivered it, I put it on the bike and gave it one good coat of their Proofide. Then I took a leather mallet (woodworking tool), covered the saddle with a cotton cloth, and beat it up real good, not too hard but definitely not soft. But I beat it and beat it and beat it across the back and the area where the sit bones should go. I beat the cloth, not the leather.

Regardless of factory recommendations, I will coat the whole thing in neatfoot oil and also loosen the nut about 1/2 to 3/4 turn for the first 400 miles or so. And, if it gets wet in the rain on and ridden once, after the neatsfoot, it won't hurt my feelings.

I'm sure we (me and saddle) will both be ready to go tomorrow. Also, it will get several more good beatings in the next few days.

The thing is .... you're going to get caught in the rain eventually anyway. :)

I had my tourer with the B-67 loaded on the back of my truck on the rack when I got caught in the rain on the way to a Saturday morning ride. I figured not to miss the ride, so off we went, wet saddle and all. Like you, I think it helped .

sth
my first (1979) and current (same) brooks-professional saddle was tempered for years.
i did go to local horse-gear saddle shop where they gave me an acid based (i believe) saddle primer that i applied (really thick stinky goo) and let stand for 48 hr. i still had to break in, but the process may have been shortened.
for me, it still seems to take about 5 days to acclimate to the saddlle, each tour anyway, no matter how much "preparing" is done.
enjoy your new discoveries!
t

Well thanks for all the great comments and advice. I swapped over to my old Specialized Body Geom seat yesterday and instantly realized it wasnt something I will go back to for long. One thing that I dont like about it over the Brooks is that its a lot grippier. I move around a lot on my saddle and the plastic cover on the Spec doesnt want to let go. Also, while squishy is nice initially, I know it will bottom out on the long haul.

I think I will give the hammer-whacking a (reluctant) try. I guess the "bottom" line is that I am not heavy enough to get a quick break in. I really shouldn't have passed on those donuts at the weekly work meetings.
My initial treatment of the seat was to warm up the underside and apply a generous coating of SnoSeal, just for protection. On top I have used Lexol regularly. Breaking the tension of the surface makes sense so I will try it out. Do you do this on the bike? Or off the post and on the bench?

Thx

I think I will give the hammer-whacking a (reluctant) try.

Don't be reluctant, just be gentle about it.
Use the ball end of ballpeen to just "tenderize" the leather where you're dimples are forming.

Much better control over the results than using the "wet method"

People somehow automatically assume that Brooks saddles are the ultimate in comfort, for *everyone*. This is one of the most common signs of groupthink on Bikeforums. I fell prey to similar groupthink when I bought a Selle Italia Flite. Widely reputed to be one of the most comfortable racing saddles, that thing killed me.

2000km and it still hurts you? I assume you're fairly intelligent and that you've already tried lots of different position tweaks, so I'd say that it was time to wake up to reality and say "this saddle just isn't for me".

Sell it now, while it's still in new condition. Take a hammer or oil to it, and you won't be able to sell it to anyone.

I weigh the same amount as you and have done a similar amount of distance on my saddle. I have noticed zero moulding, but fortunately the basic shape happens to suit me (although not as well as my first $15 synthetic saddle which wore out). I adapted to the saddle, rather than the other way around. If I couldn't, I would have sold it and found something more comfortable.

Go to Captain Bike's pages and look down to Breaking In A Leather Saddle.

http://sheldonbrown.com/leather.html

Another point is that a Brooks B-17 is designed to be sat upon pretty upright. If you've a low handlebar and a racing-type position it probably will never work well since the shape of the saddle is for upright riding.

I also suggest that people move completely away from Brooks saddles now that they seem to believe that charging several hundreds of dollars for a saddle is justified.

My Brooks is no more comfortable than my Regal which sells new for under a hundred dollars.

Lots of places have the B17 for 60-70, not so bad.

Good point about posture. there are lots of potential reasons for being uncomfortable on a saddle beyond break-in, though that doesn't appear to be the compalint here, could still be the cause.

I also suggest that people move completely away from Brooks saddles now that they seem to believe that charging several hundreds of dollars for a saddle is justified.

Only the titanium jobbies are that expensive, and looking at the Swallow, well worth it. Maybe the only non-leather saddle that can compare to these things is the Fizik Aliante. Your normal run-of-the-mill Brooks is less than a Fizik Arione (had one and thought it was pretty good), Selle San Marco Rolls, etc.

I've ridden maybe 50 miles so far on my B-17 champion special, and the only pain I've felt so far is some chafing, which I expect to decrease as it breaks in. I seem to be sliding forward too much though and may have to angle up the nose. Has anyone else had to angle up the nose of their saddle, so that there's a depression in the middle? this seems to be contradictory to common sense, but it seems like that's what's needed.

I also suggest that people move completely away from Brooks saddles now that they seem to believe that charging several hundreds of dollars for a saddle is justified.

My Brooks is no more comfortable than my Regal which sells new for under a hundred dollars.


I don't know where you are shopping but my Brooks certainly did NOT cost several hundred dollars!!!! :eek: It was about $70.

I just bought a B17 from wallbike.com. With their 6 month return policy, I figured it was worth the extra $5 over eBay. It was $75 delivered FedEx 2nd day air.

I've only had one ride on it of 26 miles. Before I put it on the bike, I put 4 coats of leather conditioner I had laying around the house that I use on our leather furniture. The bottom soaked it in really quickly while the top took longer and I wiped off the excess.

I had the Fizik Arione on two bikes. It is fine for fast shorter rides of 30 miles or less on my Lemond Alpe D'Huez, but the Arione started causing pain on my Litespeed Blue Ridge that I ride in a more upright position and for longer periods. The paid got so bad I couldn't ride so I had to try a new saddle.

After the 1 hour and 45 minutes, 26.5 miles, I had no paid on the Brooks. I am currently a clydsdale, 6'1" and 240, down from 270 at the beginning of the year, so I'm sure my weight helped flex the Brooks. I could see the slightest creases in it where it flexed on bumps after the ride.

I am very optimistic about the B17 since it felt better than the Arione on the very first ride. If I continue to like it on longer rides, I'm going to replace the Arione on my Lemond for a Team Pro, Swift or B17 narrow - depending on the outcome of my research into those saddles. Heck, I might even get a Conquest for my mountain bike.

One note here: the info that came from wallbike.com recommended turning the screw on the B17 back 1/2 turn to help it flex if needed. I did not do this since I am heavy and didn't think it necessary, however if you are only 135, you may need to do that.

Mark

I put together an old Bianchi a month or so ago and put a brand new Team Pro on it. Up until a few days ago it was giving me some saddle soreness, but I kept riding, thinking it was just harder to break in than my usual B17s. Then I got to comparing some measurements between the Bianchi and my other bikes and discovered that I had the saddle a good inch farther aft, in relation to the center of the headset, than on my other bikes. I took the saddle forward a cm, and it magically broke in (no more saddle soreness, feels as comfy as my B17)! The moral of the story...Brooks are usual comfy out of the box and only get better as they break in...but a mis-positioned saddle isn't comfy no matter how much you try to break it in! Make sure that the saddle height, tilt and fore-aft (as well as stem angle/height) aren't the problems before you go giving up on ANY saddle.

I don't know where you are shopping but my Brooks certainly did NOT cost several hundred dollars!!!! :eek: It was about $70.

Yep, my last B17 was $54 at Nashbar. Even my Team Pro and Champion Special were under $100. Now if you want a Swift or Swallow, you best open your wallet.

I don't know where you are shopping but my Brooks certainly did NOT cost several hundred dollars!!!! :eek: It was about $70.
You're talking about the Brooks B17.

Try looking at this one: http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/saddles/brooks-swallow.html

http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?id=494

As someone else pointed out - the B17 requires a nose-up adjustment at least until it gets broken in to keep you from sliding forward on the saddle.

Again and again I see people quoting the Brooks at the most comfortable saddle. Well, I've ridden all sorts of saddles and in my opinion the Selle San Marco Regal is by far the best all around saddle.

You're talking about the Brooks B17.

Try looking at this one: http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/saddles/brooks-swallow.html

http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?id=494

As someone else pointed out - the B17 requires a nose-up adjustment at least until it gets broken in to keep you from sliding forward on the saddle.

Again and again I see people quoting the Brooks at the most comfortable saddle. Well, I've ridden all sorts of saddles and in my opinion the Selle San Marco Regal is by far the best all around saddle.
Hmmm ... why are the Brooks titanium rails so expensive? It looks like other saddles (like the Selle) are sold with titanium rails without a $200 premium.

I think I've ridden my B17 1200 miles ... it is occasionally comfortable. They promised that it would get more comfortable over time and they were right -- because it had nowhere else to go.. Though somebody dropping me today complemented me on my taste in saddles.

You're talking about the Brooks B17.




Yes. We're ALL talking about the B-17 here. Read the original post again.

Yes, tilt it up. It seems counter-intuitive, but it works. The job of the peak (horn) is to position the rider properly and, to some extent, help control the bike. You definitely don't want to ride the peak. I keep my saddles tilted so that the only level area is the actual seat portion at the widest section. If you are sliding forward you will chafe because you are in constant contact at the peak/perineum/thigh.

Also, slide the saddle forward 3/16" at a time and short test ride. By tilting and sliding the saddle you will know very quickly if the problem is solved.

I ride 120 to 190 miles a week including metrics or a century most week-ends without creams, salves, butt-butter or anything. I'm an agressive rider and I pound it pretty hard. I do sweat alot, but the Brooks is the only saddle that stays comfortable the whole way. No chafing is the hallmark of Brooks. You need to adjust your saddle.
Here's a shot of my 520: http://i6.tinypic.com/149wd9v.jpg
And one of my 830:http://i6.tinypic.com/149weae.jpg

Hmmm ... why are the Brooks titanium rails so expensive? It looks like other saddles (like the Selle) are sold with titanium rails without a $200 premium.

I think I've ridden my B17 1200 miles ... it is occasionally comfortable. They promised that it would get more comfortable over time and they were right -- because it had nowhere else to go.. Though somebody dropping me today complemented me on my taste in saddles.

I am guessing a little here but perhaps it's a couple of things. If the metal TI is expensive then there is probably twice as much TI on a swift then a Flight for example. Not only the rails of the Swift are TI but so is the undercarriage. The undercarriage on a modern saddle is plastic. Also I do believe that the Swift and the Swallow use the very best grain of leather available.

Here are some Ti rod prices:

Diameter Description Item No Length Weight Price
0.187" Titanium Rod, CP-3 12846 8.250" 0.037 lb $3.00
0.187" Titanium Rod, CP-3 12860 9.688" 0.043 lb $3.50
0.187" Titanium Rod, CP-3 12842 11.375" 0.051 lb $4.00
0.187" Titanium Rod, CP-3 12819 11.875" 0.053 lb $4.00
0.187" Titanium Rod, CP-3 12839 11.938" 0.053 lb $4.00
0.187" Titanium Rod, CP-3 12838 12.313" 0.055 lb $4.50


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I used the neatsfoot oil on a heated saddle technique on my first Brooks B17. It was extremely comfortable for as long as I wanted to ride it. It also made all my shorts black from then on, making it a useless saddle for commuting. If you use this technique, be aware you can't just jump on this bike wearing anything without using a seat cover. In contrast to that, I now have a Brooks Champion that I heated and treated on the underside with Proofide and Sno Seal. I agree that it isn't as soft (I'm trying to ride it into submission), but is also doesn't ruin my clothes. And my newer saddle isn't black, it's brown. Well, it was honey when I got it. Now it's a very beautiful brown since its treatment.

Twenty-five years ago I bought an Ideale leather saddle and everybody said, "Just treat it with Proofide and nothing else!" which I did for 1,000 miles and it was still like sitting on a brick. So I ignored what everybody said and, before I ever heard of Sheldon Brown, did the Sheldon Brown turn-it-upside-down-and-pour-in-neetsfoot-oil method. It became nice and comfy within a couple hundred miles and I'm still riding on it. Yes, it would stain my pants/shorts at first (I almost always wore black anyway) and, yes, it went from a lovely natural blond to chocolate brown, but I've been able to say about it what you should always be able to say about a saddle - I don't notice it when I'm riding.

So tonight I started whackin'. I whacked and whacked and then whacked some more. Then I slathered on a generous helpin' of Lexol. Repeat. It seems to have softened the sit bone area that was starting to show signs of loosening up. I could only ride about 4 or 5 km afterwards so it remains to be seen, er, felt, if this is the trick. I will get into a bit of a routine over the next few weeks of whackin' and ridin'.

I have done all the up/down, fore/aft and tilt adjustmests and I think I have it in a comfortable position. It just needs to soften up and form a bit. It is such a nice saddle that I dont want to give up on it. The lack of friction on to the shorts is really evident. Its good looks dont hurt either.

Thanks for all the advice, I keep you posted.

I just wacked it maybe 4 -6 times about as hard as would be required to break open a peanut, or maybe a walnut. I didn't need to go medieval on it.

The need to break in a Brooks saddle must be a personal thing. I just picked up a brand new B17 and after treating it with Proofide (one liberal coat underneath and two generous coats on top) it has been *much* more comfortable than the 143mm Specialized Avatar I was using before. The Avatar was great as long as you kept your butt in one position but after about 15 miles I knew it was there and after about 25 it hurt. In comparison, the B17 was like sitting in an easy chair from day one. After 25 miles my butt definitely knows its been sitting on a saddle but its nothing like 25 miles on the Avatar and by the next day it's ready to start all over again. I've only got about 100 miles on the saddle now and about the only complaint I have is I tend to slide forward on it. I'm still playing with the tilt trying to get it just right but the B17 is a keeper no matter what.

I found the Brooks great out of the box and its hardness comes in handy. I use my saddle to drive in tent stakes and I once beat a grizzly bear senseless with it for trying to eat my last Zagnut.

Ok. Time for an update on the Brooks Break-in Saga...

A "Happy Butt Cheeks" award goes to Peterpan1. I whacked the start of the famed dimples into the newish Brooks a few weeks ago and have since put about 500+ km on it. That includes a short 3 day, 285km trip. I am happy to say that the seat feels like it is now breaking in nicely. I hope this thing just keeps on getting better.

Thanks for the solid advice Peterpan1!

Leave those saddles alone and ride them.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: As a proud Brooks owner (x3) I can assure you that you don't break these saddles in. They break your arse in. And then you are very comfy for the rest of your life.