Road Cycling - MTB vs Road Bike

Hi everyone, Yesterday we went for regular ride of our club, I was riding my road bike, suddenly another rider pass by (no belonging to our group) riding a MTB with a thinner tire 1.25 maybe, out of my racing fantasy I did chase the rider and he speed up I made the chase for about 20 min. but was not able to over take. my questions are this.

1. thus a MTB capable of speeding up like a road bike if it uses a thinner tire.
2. was the rider to strong to out run a road bike or I'm just to weak for the other rider.


to my disappointment I lost all my racing dream.

I am afraid that the other rider was too fast and you may have been a bit slower.
I ride a lightweight Cannondale MTB with 26x1.5 tyres and can average solo speeds only 10% slower than my road bike on a hilly course. Recently a bunch of roadies caught me on a morning ride, on the first climb they slowed a bit, so I caught up and had a chat to them. We were heading the same way so they said I could join them. After several km's of attacking, their group had dropped 3 riders but not me. So a strong rider can go quite fast on a suitable spec'd MTB.

In the group I race with, I can barely keep up on a road bike. So it also depends on the speed of "roadies".

CHEERS.

Mark

Every year, I enter a mini triathlon in Danville, KY. For the first four years, I used a Kawasaki mountain bike with road tires. The fifth year, I entered a road bike, and my time for the 15 mile bike race was a bit slower than with the mountain bike. Maybe I'm the one who's getting slower, not the bike. :D

I just purchased an older MB with fixed fork to ride around town, etc. I have 1.25 tires on it and it runs great. My question is after searching the net I find that I can get tires for 26 inch that are as light as some 700c road tires. With all the talk of rotating mass, will a light 26 inch wheel be more effecent than a 700c wheeltire combo of the same weight?

well 26" is close to same diameter of 650c wheels, which are used in triathlon racing because of smaller frontal area and quicker acceleration. but this does not necessarily make 650c bikes faster than their 700c counterparts.

I've seen some 26 x 1.0 tires that are rated for 110 p.s.i.

My guess is that if you're running these on your mtb and are strong enough, you should be able to keep up and in a group ride.

L8R

Originally posted by uciflylow
I just purchased an older MB with fixed fork to ride around town, etc. I have 1.25 tires on it and it runs great. My question is after searching the net I find that I can get tires for 26 inch that are as light as some 700c road tires. With all the talk of rotating mass, will a light 26 inch wheel be more effecent than a 700c wheeltire combo of the same weight? A mtb wheel isn't likely to be as light as a good road wheel and the weight difference really only matters when accelerating or draging it up a hill.On a relative flat,aerodynamisc is more important.and, a strong rider on a mtb will still beat a wuss on a road bike. Just like an a strong old geezer on an old Centurian will beat a wussy poseur on his $5000 Brand XXXXX.

Iwas riding a hybrid with 700X25 and passed road guys all the time.I like to think it was me.

Thanks to all of you guys, Now I understand what happen on my last ride, Next time a MTB pass me by I won't attack anymore:D

Have any of you converted a mtb into a road bike by fitting drop bars slicks and road gears.
From what iv read they can be very fast,im thinking of making one up for audax.

sounds expensive.... you'd need at the very least new stem new bar new shifter cables, and probably bar end shifters for the simplest conversion.

STI is probably gonna be a real pain.

the wieght isn't a problem. the 2 main things that make a MTB a little slower than a road bike:
1) tires
2) air resistance

thinner tires (obbiously w/o knobs) make a difference, but even more important is pressure. i have 1.25" slicks that can go up to 100psi for my MTB and with these i can stay with road bikes pretty well (except for air resistance at high speed or w/o a wind break)

as to air resistance: with drop bars and often even aerobars a road bike is significantly advantaged over a MTB AT HIGH SPEEDS when air resistance becomes a huge factor (say more than 20MPH, but definitely 25 or 30mph)

i did a road duathlon a few years ago on my MTB and i ended up a few minutes behind a similarly strong friend on a road-race bike (he had like 130psi, i 100 and he had aerobars) and i finished about a minute ahead of a friend who is quite slower than me (he also with aero bars). note: b/c there were only about 20 riders in the MTB class i won 1st place even though i wasn't even in the top 10 in my age group.

so in a racing sense, particularly a time trial w/o drafting, a road bike makes a huge difference.

in a high speed group/club ride it makes some difference, but a strong rider on a MTB with high pressure slicks can easily hang with roadies.

lastly: i LOVE passing roadies on my MTB WITH the KNOBBIES... now that's something to feel good about! although i've only done it a few times with serious riders

last summer for the last 5-10 miles of our group MTB rides, we would often paceline and ride at 25mph+ and pass lots of roadies! especially cool once when i had on my knee/shin protectors!

wow that is FAST!
maybe i should forget about getting a road bike and continue training on my MTB. Then when I finally get one I'll be a superfast BEAST!

Interesting point about tire pressures.I both road bike and a recumbent.The recumbent runs on fatter lower pressure tires than my road bike .But the road bike cant touch it on the flat,better aerodynamics i suppose.But it may be more than this
my road bike on rough pot holed roads seems to slow down faster with pressures of 125psi than on a bike with fatter tires at at 80psi.One reason is i can keep pedaling in the saddle over the bumps and when the high pressure skinny tires hit the rough ground its like hitting a wall.
It makes me think that the road bike only has the advantage on perfect roads.
This is why im thinking of converting the mtb.I can get fast rolling
tires whih will take bad roads but be just as fast as the road bike but with more comfort.Plus im getting feed up ith fixing punctures.

Another thing to consider-Mtb bike,hybrid and road bike riders go the same speed and say 20 miles,the road bike rider will be much fresher because a road bike is just eaiser to spin.

fast rolling tires will take bad roads but be just as fast as the road bike but with more comfort.Plus im getting feed up With fixing punctures.

I agree. 80% of my rides to work are on an MTB as it reduces my chances of a flat, when riding over broken glass at intersections. I also don't have to look for every stick and stone on the road surface.


Another thing to consider-Mtb bike,hybrid and road bike riders go the same speed and say 20 miles,the road bike rider will be much fresher because a road bike is just eaiser to spin.

This is also true. Last week I rode on my MTB to work and this week I took the road bike. I set the same time on my MTB as my road bike, but my MTB ride was at a vigorous pace while my road ride was done as a zone 2-3 training ride, much lighter workload.

CHEERS.

Originally posted by ORBIT
Have any of you converted a mtb into a road bike by fitting drop bars slicks and road gears.
From what iv read they can be very fast,im thinking of making one up for audax.


A corider of mine done it, its working and it give hime the benefit that he wants. but the only thing that is not good is the looks, it looks awful, a road bike with with a road bars its out of proportion
:D

Originally posted by deliriou5
wow that is FAST!
maybe i should forget about getting a road bike and continue training on my MTB. Then when I finally get one I'll be a superfast BEAST!


Sustrained 25mph + on a MTB is very fast - esp considering that Lance Armstrong rode a mere 49.4kmh/30.7 mph average speed on Stage 8 - Metz [56.5km/35mi] TT of the '99 TDF. This was considered a remarkable time against some of the world's best riders....

Some of the guys from the local clubs here in S FLA are real animals - I keep up with 'em just long enough to clock their speed (27 +!) and then I drop off and cruise at my own pace...

~Michael~

A 27+ mph average blows my mind! If I can average 15 on a two hour ride, it's a cause for celebration! :beer:

Originally posted by trmcgeehan
A 27+ mph average blows my mind! If I can average 15 on a two hour ride, it's a cause for celebration! :beer:

trmcgeehan,

I've been working on increasing my personal performance (I'm 43 now) and have had some measure of success. What is encouraging is that some of the club members who are able to ride and maintain their speed in the group are actually older than me - so there is no excuse ;) ... but I want to have the advantage of a roadbike... 19 lbs and 120 psi with a 53/11 ratio - not a MTB with 80 psi and off road gearing - I want every little edge possible :D

Good luck to us all - and happy training!

~Michael~

I have a road bike chain ring 52 casette 11, my Mt bike 48-12 this is about the only difference in the speed of the two, if one is in an
area with hill that can make a difference. Going down hill I think like about 10 MPH faster.

Originally posted by speir2
I have a road bike chain ring 52 casette 11, my Mt bike 48-12 this is about the only difference in the speed of the two, if one is in an area with hill that can make a difference. Going down hill I think like about 10 MPH faster.

speir2,

I would venture to say that to a pro this would probably make a bigger difference, but spinning a 53/11 @ 90 rpm - 110 rpm on a level surface will probably make a significant difference over a 48/12 combo - not even figuring in tire width, psi, aero-dynamics and weight (of course don't look at me for that kind of performance :p ).

A few months back I was cruising at about 17 - 19 mph along A1A on my way back from Ft. Lauderdale - about 150 - 155 bpm - nothing outragious - and a kid - probably around 20 - 22 yoa was trying to keep up for a few miles on a MTB. After awhile he came along side (I was really unaware he was in my slipstream - not paying too much attention) and he was breathing heavy - red-faced and said "good race" and called it a day. I think if he had a road bike he would not have struggled... I may be wrong - of course.

I offer nothing special in terms of performance - but even to me a road bike offers a performance edge - and I owned a nice MTB for awhile. I suspect roadbikes are designed for the road - and MTB for off-road. Hence one does not see too many MTBs at the TDF ;) - though they may not be a bad idea for Paris-Roubaix...

http://www.letour.fr/stf/roubaix/2002/images/course_1.jpg

esp. at FORET D'ARENBERG :D !!


Regards,

~Michael~

We all know stock road bikes are faster then stock MTB's. A riders abilities and training level can make all the difference, then comes bike weight and gearing. It's possible that his MTB had some gearing changes for the road, to go along with those road tires.

Originally posted by Garbear
We all know stock road bikes are faster then stock MTB's. A riders abilities and training level can make all the difference, then comes bike weight and gearing. It's possible that his MTB had some gearing changes for the road, to go along with those road tires.

Absolutely. I was messing around with a hybrid once - threw on a road cassette - different crankset - some cheap Mavic road wheels I had laying around and just adjusted breaks accordingly.... not too bad - actually. It can be fun to play around and modify rides.

These days I'm no longer that interested in re-inventing the wheel :D ...so to speak.

NO one is saying a mtb is faster than a road bike ,but a rtb cant be far off.If we were just concerned with speed on a bike we would all ride recumbents.Its about what type of riding you do.
If you ride on rough roads a rtb makes sense its geared like a road bike,but has wheels and tires which are better suited to this type of riding.

I used to only have a MTB and road it everywhere. Passing roadies was never a problem, most could barely hold a 23mph pace. I upgraded from my MTB (46/11) to a cyclcross bike (52/12) partially because i wanted more gear and something that would be a bit faster. I picked up almost 2mph when I switched, not from gearing, but from being more efficient (so I think). Although I was out of gear on my MTB.

I would go ride with a co-worker who was very strong at climbing and we would find hills on the weekend. It was nice to pedal up the hills (4-10%) and pass the guys on there $4k+ road bikes. Of course he would reach the top before me, but I always tried.

I will tell everyone this, my cyclocross bike rolls up the hills a heck of a lot better than the MTB.


Originally posted by deliriou5
well 26" is close to same diameter of 650c wheels, which are used in triathlon racing because of smaller frontal area and quicker acceleration. but this does not necessarily make 650c bikes faster than their 700c counterparts.

I here this a lot from mis informed people. Here is a quote from Cervelo:



Which wheelsize is faster depends on how big you are and the position you ride in. It all comes down to putting the rider in a comfortable and aerodynamic position, and designing the bike around that.
Rider Position: If the rider rides in an aero position, the handlebars and aerobars will usually be in a relatively low position, lower than on a road bike. In a small frame size, this low position of the bars can conflict with the size of a 700c front wheel, as the big wheel and the low bars wouldn't leave enough room for a headtube. Hence for small sizes we recommend 650c wheels. For larger sizes, a good position can be obtained over either a 650c or 700c front wheel, provided that in both cases the headtube is kept short enough (shorter than on a road bike of the same size).

Bike Aerodynamics: Since both wheel sizes will work on bigger frames, the optimal frame will be the one with the lowest drag. While a 650c wheel has slightly less drag and uses a slightly more aero fork (shorter fork legs), a 650c frame will have a 2" longer headtube, assuming an identical aerobar position. Our windtunnel testing shows that due to that shorter headtube, a 700c bike will actually be slightly more aero than a 650c bike. Therefore, for the larger sizes we recommend 700c wheels, but for mid sizes the customers' current equipment and other factors will also enter into the equation.


Sorry for the long cut/paste.

Styk33 and ORBIT,

First of all I am not making a particular point other than one of topology. I am not interested in useless arguments or altercation - I say ride what you want when you want however fast you want - or not ...

In forums like this testosterone levels and male pride can run high - and people make allegations of speed that may be suspect. A guy in a local gym recently stated his sustained average speed was 30 + mph! Well - considering that Armstrong's TDF time trials average no more that 31 mph I might raise a conservative brow and not take the statement at face value...I was born at night - but not last night.

Since I saw a similar statement here I simply raised the comparison.

As far as passing guys on $4k bikes goes - who cares - if someone who enjoys riding can afford a nice bike and it brings him / her joy - what's wrong with that - not every person who rides a bike has something to prove. If I had the bucks I'd buy a $10K bike. Last time I checked there were no UCI ranking requirements for buying a nice bike. I don't like to pass judgements on slower riders - because I don't know their medical history or other possible handicaps.

Personally - I partied and smoked for 10 years and quit - and at first I was riding a Huffy for 10 blocks - and I was finished! But I kept trying. Six months later I could ride 15 miles and was bleeding and suffering like a dog at about 14 mph! I'm sure you guys would have laughed at me going down the road. I taught myself about bikes by reading and watching videos - Three years later I eat healthy, work out 6 days a week and ride 18 - 20 average. Not great - but I have stayed with it - and I have a $3K bike. SO - I don't judge the average Joe riding along and doing his best - because I don't know where Joe came from...

Last but not least - something I leared after 11 years in law enforcement - no matter how big and bad you think you are - there is always someone bigger and more bad!.

BTW - congrats on your speed ability - it is my goal to be able to ride at 23 - 25 someday. I just keep training and fine-tuning my food intake / workout.

Best regards and happy riding,

~Michael~

the MTB rider who pass you, must be a strong cyclist, its not the kind of bike your riding, he may be riding an old dilapidated MTB and your riding a nice road bike but if you are not in great physical shape there's no way you will catch up with that MTB'er, as they say "ITS NOT ABOUT THE BIKE

Originally posted by orguasch
the MTB rider who pass you, must be a strong cyclist, its not the kind of bike your riding, he may be riding an old dilapidated MTB and your riding a nice road bike but if you are not in great physical shape there's no way you will catch up with that MTB'er, as they say "ITS NOT ABOUT THE BIKE

I wonder if people are actually reading the before mentioned posts. Of course it's not about the bike - who said it was? It's about determination, discipline and never ever giving up. My point was exactly that the bike does not matter. Have you ever been passed by a guy or a girl on a nice bike? Same diff.

~M~

Originally posted by akshobhyavajra
Styk33 and ORBIT,

In forums like this testosterone levels and male pride can run high - and people make allegations of speed that may be suspect. A guy in a local gym recently stated his sustained average speed was 30 + mph! Well - considering that Armstrong's TDF time trials average no more that 31 mph I might raise a conservative brow and not take the statement at face value...I was born at night - but not last night.

Michael, well stated and I couldn't agree more. I am amazed at those that state they're sustaining speeds of 27-30+mph over long distance, yet their not competing against LA or anybody else, just talking in a forum.

I am happy to hold 18-24mph consistently over a 2-4hr ride on the flats, 15-22mph in the foothills...at least that's what my campy ergo brain tells me. :eek: Course, I am old dude and not claiming I am bionic. I could care less is some young buck on anything passes me on my expensive bike... he's proven, except maybe inflating his already overblown ego with false data. Since, he'll never know if I was maxed or just laligaging......... ;) I am also a single digit player and hit the ball a good distance... In a golf forum I frequent, everybody says they hit the ball 290yds+++. Yet, as often as I play, very few hit the ball as well or as far as I do. So much smoke being blown up hiney... :p



Last but not least - something I leared after 11 years in law enforcement - no matter how big and bad you think you are - there is always someone bigger and more bad!.

Once again, your experience speaks out over others machismo... :D

Originally posted by Garbear
Michael, well stated and I couldn't agree more. I am amazed at those that state they're sustaining speeds of 27-30+mph over long distance, yet their not competing against LA or anybody else, just talking in a forum.

I

Garbear,

Thanks for the input - that was my next question - why not try out for Team Telecom, Coast, etc et al :D Yep - wish I would have discovered this great sport earlier in life - it's so much fun!

BTW - I tried my hand at golf a few times - but once i get on the green I might as well just "take a mulligan" :eek: I best stick to my two wheels....

Best regards,

~Michael~

as for some guy stating that they can maintain a 30+ mile average speed for a longer period of time, I admire this guys, I know I can ride 30+ plus miles only on short intervals and go down to my average speed of 20 miles/hour for longer period of time

Originally posted by akshobhyavajra

Last but not least - something I leared after 11 years in law enforcement - no matter how big and bad you think you are - there is always someone bigger and more bad!.


A guy at work says that. He has never held world titles though or been known for being one of the best in his field.

I will never be a top cyclist, I will never be in the top 100, I accept that fact. So I chose a different sport that I know I can be competitive in.



BTW - congrats on your speed ability - it is my goal to be able to ride at 23 - 25 someday. I just keep training and fine-tuning my food intake / workout.

Best regards and happy riding,

~Michael~


Eating properly made a major difference in my performance. All of the sudden I had energy to ride a lot farther and harder. My friends complain that my diet is to stringent, but I know what I used to eat and how I felt during and after riding and I see it as a necessity now. All in moderation though I believe.

Time for me to go home and spend quality time with my daughter. Then it is to the garage for the trainer :)

Originally posted by Styk33
A guy at work says that. He has never held world titles though or been known for being one of the best in his field.



My fitness and defense tactics instructer Joe Hess told me that in the Broward police academy in 1985 - he is the former world karate champion (full contact - 2 titles) ...;)

Someone else said "pride goeth before destruction" -Proverbs 16:18...

There is nothing wrong with knowing your limitations. It's even better to never underestimate your opponent - both are vital aspects of true competitiveness.

Best regards,

~Michael~

akshobhyavajra,

Haven't read your posts previously, but
from what I've seen in this thread its
good to have you on Forums.
I really like what you have to say.

Marty

Originally posted by lotek
akshobhyavajra,

Haven't read your posts previously, but
from what I've seen in this thread its
good to have you on Forums.
I really like what you have to say.

Marty


Hello Marty,

Thanks for the reply - good to be on board. From the profile another audiophile as well?

Cheers,

~Michael~

Michael,
yeah, well I dabble in audio too, building some
Bottlehead stuff. Mostly it feeds my love of music.
Lets just say that Art Dudley and I have similiar
ideas and tastes!

Marty

Originally posted by lotek
Michael,
yeah, well I dabble in audio too, building some
Bottlehead stuff. Mostly it feeds my love of music.
Lets just say that Art Dudley and I have similiar
ideas and tastes!

Marty


Great stuff - when I'm not riding I enjoy my tube stuff and analog rig - love classical, opera and some jazz. Nice to relax with after a ride.

Regards,

~Michael~