Folding Bikes - from brompton to speed tr

I am a brompton owner and have used it to commute for about two years now. I love the convenience of the bike but find the ride too harsh for my lower back problem. My husband and I have mariner 26s which we use for pleasure riding on the many loose gravel trails locally and also we can throw the in the back of the van and explore other areas. I am considering selling my Brompton so that I can purchase a Speed tr. I went to test one out today and find that it appears to incorperate all the above criteria in one bike. Comfortable soft ride, foldability and maybe it will handle loose gravel trails as well as my full size mariner. Any opinions?

I'm not super-thrilled with the product quality of Dahon lately, but a) you have to take care of your back and b) maybe the TR is built with better components than on my Dahon. So, with those chunks of salt provided.... :P

My motto is, "use the right tool for the job." The TR is designed for touring, the Brompton for commuting. If possible, I'd talk to a shop just to see if there are ways to spruce up the Brompton.

What gives the TR the plusher ride is the suspension seatpost and the Schwalbe Big Apple tires. Big Apples ought to fit the Brompton; not sure on the suspension seatpost, but there are suspension saddles that may work. I'd recommend you try the Big Apples at a low pressure first on the Brompton, if you can.

The TR has both an internal hub and a derailluer, and the Bromptons just have interal hubs. So the TR will definitely need more maintenance overall. The internal hub also makes the TR fairly heavy.

The fold on the Brompton is superior to the Dahon (as I'm sure you know ;) ). Not only is it smaller, but the chain winds up in between the wheels on a folded Brompton, and outside on the Dahon. Not a big deal if you bike straight to work, but definitely an issue if you take your bike on public transport. If you don't have a bag for the Dahon, sooner or later someone's going to smudge their work clothes on that exposed chain....

Offhand I don't think even the TR will do all that well on gravel, 20" wheels don't seem to do well on that surface in my experience. But it will be easier to transport two TR's than two Mariner 27's.


Again, the critical issue is comfort. If you don't find the Brompton comfortable, and there's no simple fix for it (e.g. using Big Apples, suspension saddle), then you should definitely use a different bike. My only issue with the TR in that instance is simply that it's made for touring and might not wind up fitting the bill.

Do you fold your bike daily to use public transport, or just when you arrive at the office? If public transport is not involved, I would highly recommend a Downtube FS for commuting and "fold-a-day at office". Putting folding aside, the DT has way more performance per GBP, USD, etc., than a Brommie or TR, and no proprietariness issues of a Dahon.

Did you try changing to different tires on your Brompton? I found that a Brompton rode better than a lot of folders. You could also go with a suspended seat. If you like the Brompton, why not change it a bit to suit your needs rather than get a different bike. If you do decide to sell it though I know someone who might be interested in it. PM me if you decide to do that.

If you do go with a Speed TR find an '05 model as it many ways it has better specs.

Its great to see so many responses to my dilemma. I like the idea of modifying the Brompton because it is a very rare and admired bike here on the west coast of Canada. I have never seen another and I had to get mine from Toronto (the only Canadian dealer I believe). Choices of tires are limited due to the wheel size and clearance between tire and frame. Big apples would not fit which is a shame. I do work most of my regular shifts locally but have to use the bus servise if I am sheduled to work out of town, so do still need that option open to me. I get the impression that 20'' wheels are not for loose gravel trails. I will check out the Downtubes as suggested. I guess its all about compromise. I was curious about those new 26'' wheel bikes (swivelhead) but have not been able to find anymore info about them.

I think the biggest factor 20-inchers on loose gravel is the width of the tire, more so than the diameter. BMXer's ride on similar stuff all the time with little 20-inch wheels - they just have proper tires. I ride my Speed TR on hard-pack pea size gravel occassionally without incident but I have no deep loose gravel roads nearby to try.

I also use the Speed TR to commute - it's a fold at the office type of commute. It would be tough to recommend a bike that heavy for a fold and carry on a train kind of commute - it would probbly get old fast.

I've been very pleased with the Speed TR. I would purchase it again.

I have a lower back problem, too. My Brompton has the "M" style upright handlebars. I did not need to change the tires to suit my back. I simply added a sprung saddle to add to the superior suspension of the rear part of the frame (cost 35 US dollars). Far more cheaper than a new bike. Plus I still have the advantages of the Brompton's protective extremely compact fold. The upright postion allows me to shift around a bit while cycling to increase my back's limberness and to actually prevent pain in my case.

Please consider trying simple things to aid your comfort. I find the Brompton is a very flexible little bike and seems to take on whatever you add to it well.

I guess its all about compromise. I was curious about those new 26'' wheel bikes (swivelhead) but have not been able to find anymore info about them.

I'm afraid any choice would be a compromise, as no one folder is perfect for every situation. Chris Eley recently bought a set of new Schwalbe tyres for his Brompton (Though not Big Apples) so there are some choices out there(check out the Brompton fora (forums) on my AtoZ.
Other possibilities are hub gears, titanium forks and rear end, multi position bars, quick release luggage etc. So prob better staying with the Brompton and then customising it, as the Dahon would not be as smalll or convenient a fold for use on public transport.
It's still a bit too early to consider a Swivelhead, it's unlikely it'll be released fro a while yet, although it's scheduled to be released in the Far East first. Good luck!

I have a lower back problem, too. My Brompton has the "M" style upright handlebars. I did not need to change the tires to suit my back. I simply added a sprung saddle to add to the superior suspension of the rear part of the frame (cost 35 US dollars). Far more cheaper than a new bike. Plus I still have the advantages of the Brompton's protective extremely compact fold. The upright postion allows me to shift around a bit while cycling to increase my back's limberness and to actually prevent pain in my case.

Please consider trying simple things to aid your comfort. I find the Brompton is a very flexible little bike and seems to take on whatever you add to it well.

@folder fanatic - do you do long commutes on the brompton C3?

I like the luggage system that Brompton has to keep heavy loads off of my back. I also like the small fold of the Bromptons which would come in handy when I go into stores and restaurants but I also like comfort and performance.

I use a Dahon Boardwalk D7 to commute 8.5 miles each way and it does the job, alright. I don't like seeing those roadies zooming past me on the uphill climbs of the 59th Street but on flat land I can pretty much keep up with them as long as I'm not carrying a heavy load on my back.

I saw a guy on a Brompton flying yesterday, so I guess they can move with the right legs propelling them.

I saw a guy on a Brompton flying yesterday, so I guess they can move with the right legs propelling them.
He was probably just starting his commute. :D

@folder fanatic - do you do long commutes on the brompton C3? -tommylane

The longest actual ride that I have taken without using another form of transit to augment the distance is about 10 miles one way. The bike is intended to be used with other forms of transit with ease.
This is one of the biggest draw of buying the Brompton.

I like the luggage system that Brompton has to keep heavy loads off of my back. I also like the small fold of the Bromptons which would come in handy when I go into stores and restaurants but I also like comfort and performance. -tommylane

The first night that I bought my Brompton, I took it into a restaurant for dinner hidden in it's travel bag. It tucked underneath the table very descreetly. For me, with slight modifications of the brake levers a bit foward, the addition of the sprung saddle, and the upright position of the M handlebars, are enough to make it comfy for me. I am not too keen on high performance bikes, rather taking a more sedate approuch to riding. But I am very pleased with my little Brompton's hidden characteristics such as nimble steering, quick acceleration (like the old 1960's Mini Coopers and sportcars), built-in suspension in the rear triangle, and steel's reliability and some road shock dampening. Even the web site's warning tells people looking into a Brompton purchase that these bikes are not for everyone. But if you like the above, you will like the bike. Although I would recommend that you test ride a newer one at a Brompton dealer. And most people need fenders/mudguards to protect you and the bike from wet sludge. The luggage system is the next major thing I will add to the bike for sure.

I use a Dahon Boardwalk D7 to commute 8.5 miles each way and it does the job, alright. I don't like seeing those roadies zooming past me on the uphill climbs of the 59th Street but on flat land I can pretty much keep up with them as long as I'm not carrying a heavy load on my back. -tommylane

I also own a Dahon Boardwalk S1 from 2003. My bike has been modified to a AW three speed like my Brompton. It can handle all the hills surrounding my house with ease even loaded down with some luggage. I usually don't see many cyclists around my house as the gangs would eat them alive and take their bikes (that is another reason why I have folders now). If you have a steel frame Dahon, I am sure that you should consider a Brompton too. The price is one of the things that put people off. But it will give you years of joy and reliable riding which will pay for itself many times over.

Please let me know if and when you bought a Brompton and which model you chose.

@folder fanatic - thanks for all of that info. I will look into the Brompton more. I really would like to own one. It seems like a nice option to have in the stable, especially for use in the winter, when it gets really cold here, I could see myself doing multimodal transportation. Sometimes I travel to Boston and I think it would be good to have a bike with me and the Brompton seems to fit the bill.

Since the C3 can be upgraded, I'm thinking maybe I'll get that one eventually, and upgrade it gradually.

One thing I am confused about is the pedals. I read that the C3 doesn't come with folding pedals. If this is true, do they get in the way?

Thanks,

So I did a little test ride on the Brompton.... Very stable bike, I was quite surprised by how solid it felt. 10 times more solid than a low-end Dahon (tho' I have yet to try the D's in the $800+ range).

Is it me, though, or is the gearing range on a 3-speed Brompton kind of narrow? I really didn't notice a big difference between the 3 gears.

Since the C3 can be upgraded, I'm thinking maybe I'll get that one eventually, and upgrade it gradually.

One thing I am confused about is the pedals. I read that the C3 doesn't come with folding pedals. If this is true, do they get in the way? -tommylane

The most important difference between the M type (one level up) and the C type is the folding pedal, the fenders and the braking system. If you live where I think you do (cold and wet) you will need to have the fenders right away. And the folding pedal (there is only one used) is very necessary for travel onboard mass transit. Since you will need these things right away, it might be cheaper and easier to buy the M model outright and still do a gradual add-ons such as the QR luggage system later as you are planning to do. The C is really intended for the dry weather I ride here without the fenders or better brakes. The plastic folding pedal was thrown in the deal by the bikeshop I purchased it from. The one shown on the M appears to be made of metal. Eventually I will probably buy that metal pedal.

The brake system is rather poor for the C, a bit better for the rest. If you buy Brompton M type, make sure you have the dual pivot brake added to the rear instead of that awful High Leverage one (the CE3 uses these exclusively for both front and rear) that comes with the bike for somewhat improved braking power even if you have to pay a little more (the last time I checked about 10 dollars at the time of purchase). And do use Kool Stops braking pads or other such ones instead of Brompton's with any Brompton model you actually buy. It will buy you time for shopping for another braking system if you decide you want it later. And if you want to add the rear rack later, that dual pivot brake is much easier to adjust for it.

Make your decisions based on what your Brompton dealer and your needs guide you to.

Thanks for your input, folder fanatic. I appreciate it. :)