Folding Bikes - Which Dahon Speed?

Sorry about the cross-post with the Dahon board (with slight modifications) but I'd like as many opinions and as much advice as possible before making a move!

So my wife test rode my SpeedPro '05 today. I also checked out some other brands of folders (oh the horror!) at bfold here in NYC. The end result of these two experiments is that we're pretty set on another Dahon Speed bike, because she didn't just like the SpeedPro, she raved about how awesome the ride was, and I wasn't taken by the other folders I tried at bfold (ride was really good on one but the fold... meh not so nice).

But what to get? Another SpeedPro would be the easy choice. However, as seen in my other thread, I totally sweat the TT model. That thing is so hot! However, I want to remain practical: my folder is my main commuting rig. If we did a hand-me-down of the original SP, would the TT model be trickier for me to handle as a commuter weaving in and out of traffic? Will it hold up to the rigors of NYC streets as my original SpeedPro has struggled to do? Will the squishy caliper brakes be a problem for a guy my size? (190lbs) Can I justify the extra coin to get one?!?

Also, the question of possibly getting a Speed TR for my wife is up for review. From the looks of it, the Speed TR, for its 5-6 extra pounds of weight gives a clip-on mount for a rack in front and some different wheels and tires (Edit: Thudbuster too). Touring may be in our future, but the SP has eyelets and the like to be adequately retro-fitted for touring, no?

Help us decide, and decide quickly! I'd like to order in the next couple of days so that we can have the new folder in time for our next vacation in early to mid July. A propos, anybody know what's the lead time right now on these bikes? Thanks in advance to everyone!

Sigh. I wish I had your problem.

Skip the TR. Your wife is fired up about the sportier bike. It sounds like most of your riding will be sans the panniers. Buy for the way she will be doing most of her riding. If she's fired up by the bike, she'll ride it more.

Don't do a hand-me-down. This is your wife's new bike got it?

Enjoy!!

Heh, she was the one who suggested the hand-me-down, believe it or not. You speak words of wisdom, though, which I will keep in mind. Thanks!

Any other opnions??

I also checked out some other brands of folders (oh the horror!) at bfold here in NYC.
No "horrors" to that. Folding does not begin or end with Dahon.... ;)



I want to remain practical: my folder is my main commuting rig. If we did a hand-me-down of the original SP, would the TT model be trickier for me to handle as a commuter weaving in and out of traffic?
Yes.

You already know how the SP handles, the TT '06 is almost identical. But with the TT bars, you will be a little bit more bent over, and this will cut down on your vision a little bit.



Will it hold up to the rigors of NYC streets as my original SpeedPro has struggled to do?
It'll be the same. I think you know that, though. :D



Will the squishy caliper brakes be a problem for a guy my size? (190lbs)
Dunno, but that seems like an easy thing to switch out. Am I wrong on that?



Can I justify the extra coin to get one?!?
Ehh, no matter how you slice it you're going to buy another bike anyway. Just accept it. ;)


For what little my recommendation is worth:
- Make your wife happy by giving her your current Speed Pro.
- Check out the Giant Halfway and/or Downtube. The Halfway is fairly light, reasonably priced ($500), and is more stable than the Dahons -- which will a) hold up better for commuting and b) give you a little speed boost. "A Bicycle Shop" on 14th has one, if you want to check it out.

Downtubes are quite cheap and have a decent reputation in this here forum. In fact, it seems like you could get a nice Downtube for commuting, and save up a few more months for a really nice folder for weekend excursions.

By the way, if you go Dahon you don't have to rush. If you can get there, James Vincent in North Bergen, NJ is a big Dahon dealer and pleasant staff, so you can more likely than not get what you need right there.

No way, a Dahon dealer with actual stock? Pinch me, I must be dreaming! North Bergen? That's funny, it's literally across the Hudson River from Toga, where I got my SpeedPro. The only problem I see there, though, is getting there when somethign goes wrong! I suppose, though, a folded SpeedPro (TT?!?) might be OK on a NJ Transit bus...

Edit: yo that place is close to where I used to work some years back (I used to bike commute there via the GWB, of course, though on my trusty road bike :D). I definitely will have to take a look even if merely for the sake of checking it out.

Edit 2: no SpeedPros in stock, but more expected in "10-14 days". That's a little tight, seeing as we could be traveling within a month. When is Dahon going to fix this supply problem? They could be making a killing with the demand I'm conjecturing must exist...

No way, a Dahon dealer with actual stock? Pinch me, I must be dreaming! North Bergen? That's funny, it's literally across the Hudson River from Toga, where I got my SpeedPro. The only problem I see there, though, is getting there when somethign goes wrong! I suppose, though, a folded SpeedPro (TT?!?) might be OK on a NJ Transit bus...

Edit: yo that place is close to where I used to work some years back (I used to bike commute there via the GWB, of course, though on my trusty road bike :D). I definitely will have to take a look even if merely for the sake of checking it out.

Edit 2: no SpeedPros in stock, but more expected in "10-14 days". That's a little tight, seeing as we could be traveling within a month. When is Dahon going to fix this supply problem? They could be making a killing with the demand I'm conjecturing must exist...

You can get a good idea of what's available from Dahon at this site: http://www.shopatron.com/index

Since "Shopatron" is out of the Speed Pro and TT, I'm assuming James Vincent will get his around the same time as everyone else (unless someone's got it in stock). And whoever you get it from outside the area will have to ship it to you, so....

How does this shopatron thing work? I don't get it.

Go right for the Speed Pro TT. Do not pass go do not collect $200. Unless you get into a Bike Friday, none of the other bikes are going to be as fast. The Downtube is a nice all around bike, but the TT is a road bike with much nicer components. As well it should be since it is 3 times the price of the DT.
Better components than the Speed Pro including brakes, looks awesome, goes fast. Post pics!
Kenal0

Go right for the Speed Pro TT. Do not pass go do not collect $200. Unless you get into a Bike Friday, none of the other bikes are going to be as fast. The Downtube is a nice all around bike, but the TT is a road bike with much nicer components. As well it should be since it is 3 times the price of the DT.
Better components than the Speed Pro including brakes, looks awesome, goes fast. Post pics!
Kenal0

This is just the sort of post I need to push me over the edge. :D But still my concern lingers... how will it compare to my vanilla SpeedPro (hard to think of such a thing being "vanilla") as an urban commuter?

Oh and I will post pics when the time comes... I did when I got the first SpeedPro and what could be sweeter than pics of twin folders??

Do you like the current Speed Pro as an urban commuter? Same frame, same geometry, same wheelset.
Upgraded brakes and shifters. Only noticeable dif is the bars but look at all the fixed gear messengers riding all over the place with tt bars. I ride a fixed gear with bullhorns all over Chicago and really do not think about the handling being any different than my other bikes.
Sometime you have to let passion overide the conservative common sense side. The excitement I still get everytime I walk in my garage and see my Bike Friday just begging to be ridden. Poor Roadie just sits there wishing it would get out once in a while. :D
Good luck on your decision, I am sure you will be happy with whatever you choose.
Kenal0

How does this shopatron thing work? I don't get it.

Shopatron allows bike stores that deal in Dahons to fill the orders for the bike(s) you want if they have them in stock. If you call our store manager Gene at 1 888 473-1331, he can explain to you. He knows more about it than I do. Shopatron went up just 3 or 4 weeks ago.

Do you like the current Speed Pro as an urban commuter? Same frame, same geometry, same wheelset.
Upgraded brakes and shifters. Only noticeable dif is the bars but look at all the fixed gear messengers riding all over the place with tt bars. I ride a fixed gear with bullhorns all over Chicago and really do not think about the handling being any different than my other bikes.
Sometime you have to let passion overide the conservative common sense side. The excitement I still get everytime I walk in my garage and see my Bike Friday just begging to be ridden. Poor Roadie just sits there wishing it would get out once in a while. :D
Good luck on your decision, I am sure you will be happy with whatever you choose.
Kenal0

Heh, I guess I do ride the current SpeedPro with the bars all the way down already. The difference with the fixie guys is that they can still "brake" with their hands anywhere. ;) One question, though, about using it as a regular commuter, is how do those hot cowhorn bars fold? That doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere.

...how do those hot cowhorn bars fold? That doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere.
They're attached to the Revolve stem which has a quick-release on top. One more step added to the folding process: undo the quick-release and rotate the bar.

Ohhhh. That seems simple enough. I don't care if it takes another 5 seconds to fold. As it is it would take me 10 if the seatpost weren't such a PITA sometimes.

Wait a sec. Do you mean the cowhorns on the TT? That I don't know. I thought you meant for other folders (the Hon Solo, for example).

Yeah, the cowhonrs. They'd stick out quite a bit without any special treatment.

Hm. According to this pic (http://www.syntace.com/misc/pic/pic_popup_last.cfm?pkimg=2145), it seems you have to adjust it with an allen key. Don't know if Dahon's is different.

Hm. According to this pic (http://www.syntace.com/misc/pic/pic_popup_last.cfm?pkimg=2145), it seems you have to adjust it with an allen key. Don't know if Dahon's is different.

Nah, that's not what it looks like. You can tell from the pics on dahon.com.

This is just the sort of post I need to push me over the edge. :D But still my concern lingers... how will it compare to my vanilla SpeedPro (hard to think of such a thing being "vanilla") as an urban commuter?

The more arrow position you will have on the SpeedPro TT will CLEARLY shorten your commute by minutes, if not hours;) !!! I say get that lovely TT...of course I'm just trying to live my fantasies vicariously through you, so you may not want my opinion:) >

juan162

It seems like the people have spoken. TT it is, I suppose, assuming the the bars fold nicely (checking on that with Dahon) and that the wife doesn't do a double-take at the price. After all, gotta keep the people happy, right?? :D

OK, I hate to disagree with someone who probably is more knowledgeable than me, but... :D


Unless you get into a Bike Friday, none of the other bikes are going to be as fast.
Uhm.... Well, none of the other Dahons will be as fast. But the speed/performance difference between one Dahon and the next will be marginal anyway. They all have a big hinge in the middle and a tall handlepost; the Speed Pro/TT also has a suspension front hub. All of that will soak up energy and slow the bike down. It's the price one pays for the fairly convenient Dahon fold.

From what I can tell, several bikes in the $700 - $1200 price range ought to out-perform the Speed Pro and probably the TT as well -- Birdy, Swift, some BF's, maybe the Montagues. (Plus there's the Airnimal, for those whose incomes are truly disposable :) ) Even a Giant Halfway kitted out with racing tires might give the Speed a good run for its money, as the frame and steering are less flexy....





But still my concern lingers... how will it compare to my vanilla SpeedPro (hard to think of such a thing being "vanilla") as an urban commuter?
I think you already know it's going to be the same.

Keeping in mind that you are not me, :p I don't see why you'd want to take a flashy, flexy, expensive bike with super-high-pressure tires, no racks and a bent-over position on a daily commute in the NYC area. The Pro/TT's are just not designed for that kind of "urban warfare," and I'd be very reluctant to ride it on wet and dirty streets.

It makes much more sense to get a beater bike or something with a generous suspension and upright position (folding or otherwise) that can a) handle bad roads, b) won't bug you to ride through a big mucky puddle and c) is less of a hit if it gets damaged/stolen for your commute. Thus, the Halfway/Downtube recommendation.

Keep the road bike for the weekends and vacations, when you've got long stretches of asphalt and no taxis to worry about. :D

Heh, I commuted on my SpeedPro for five months to and through Midtown. Other than the wheels being wonky, it was nothing short of awesome. The handlepost was a bit flexy but I recently realized that a bolt was not tight enough (it's much stiffer since I adjusted it). It was the ideal commuter for me! You can't on the one hand knock the suspension hub and then say the bike sucks for commuting. Anyway, flashy is fine, it's a folder! I'd never lock anything short of a total beater outside in NYC and I'm not going to work anywhere that doesn't let me take my folder inside.

As for the actual "speed" of the SpeedPro I currently have, it's great. With the Stelvio tires -- which I haven't run in a long while, Marathons are better here in the city -- it's quite zippy. I think the only thing holding back higher speeds is the relatively upright position. I've tweaked it as best I can for the most aggressive position but it's at best equivalent to the tops on my road bike, IMO.

From what I can tell, several bikes in the $700 - $1200 price range ought to out-perform the Speed Pro and probably the TT as well...
The Birdy, as cool as it is, won't be one of them.

Heh, I commuted on my SpeedPro for five months to and through Midtown. Other than the wheels being wonky, it was nothing short of awesome. The handlepost was a bit flexy but I recently realized that a bolt was not tight enough (it's much stiffer since I adjusted it). It was the ideal commuter for me! You can't on the one hand knock the suspension hub and then say the bike sucks for commuting. Anyway, flashy is fine, it's a folder! I'd never lock anything short of a total beater outside in NYC and I'm not going to work anywhere that doesn't let me take my folder inside.

As for the actual "speed" of the SpeedPro I currently have, it's great. With the Stelvio tires -- which I haven't run in a long while, Marathons are better here in the city -- it's quite zippy. I think the only thing holding back higher speeds is the relatively upright position. I've tweaked it as best I can for the most aggressive position but it's at best equivalent to the tops on my road bike, IMO.

I think you can have the best of both worlds with the TT. You will get a commuter that rides as well as the one you have now and you will have a bike that will be respectable on the weekends amoungst the roadie crew. Sounds like a nice mix. I am almost convincing myself to get one!
I put the Stelvios on my BF and it is awesome.

Kenal0

Those mango tires are awesome. I have been looking at this bike more and more.
Kenal0

Tha mango Stelvio tires are really great. I wasn't expecting much (28mm vs. 23mm I normally ride on the road bike) but was really blown away. I guess the small wheel size had something to do with it. Anyhow, the Marathons have been awesome for riding around the city but they're slowpokes compared to the Stelvios (I can still kick it pretty fast with the Marathons, mind you).

Did you ever find out how the bars actually fold - quick-release; allen bolt?

as long as you loosen the handlebar the fold is pretty flat


thor

According to "Dahon Tech" (i.e. official Dahon source) on Dahon's own forum:


They rotate to lie flat (relatively) against the front wheel.

The Fold is definitely a bit bulkier than a standard 20" but it's pretty good.

But boy are those bars comfortable.

Did you ever find out how the bars actually fold - quick-release; allen bolt?

I can't get the server to accept the image but looking at the images on dahon website. I see no quick release. I think the fold has to be just like the regular speed pro with the horns running up the way the bar ends do on the pro only further out.

Be interesting to see how it all folds once he gets it.

I don't see a quick-release either, and oboeguy says the Syntace pic I brought up is not what Dahon uses. Dahon Tech, as noted above, says the handlebars "rotate," but I'm not sure anyone knows by what mechanism the rotation actually occurs. I do hope better pictures or a good description comes through. For now, I'm inclined to imagine they fold (or "rotate") by magic. :D

(I like the Hammerhead myself, but am waiting to see what they do with the model. Hopefully a CroMo frame is in the near future.)

ok .... the tt as well as other bikes with the non adjustable steering post, has the Syntace STubby welded on the steering post. This is new for 06 as in the year before they had a seperate piece of handlebar( or what I call Syntace stubby ) look on my handlebar page... it becomes obvious

http://www.thorusa.com/dahonhandlebar.htm

soooo what does that all mean... you need to have an allen key to loosen the stem and fold the handlebar....

UNLESS you prefer to have a longer adjustable steerer post , with Prolite quick release stem..... than you add one of the Syntace stubbies and you are in business... Now you can adjust the height, and have a quick release for folding the handlebar ...

especially for tall persons this "tuning" is a good idea.

Thanks brakemeister - your pics and explanation make sense to me. Don't know why Dahon just doesn't provide a more thorough explanation of how their own stuff works.

Grrr, according to Dahon California, there's no stock until MID AUGUST for both flavors of Speed Pro. Time for plan B... what's plan B?!?

Edit: typo

Bike Friday New World Tourist with Drop Bars or H Bars..... Never mind it will take almost as long to get that. I say wait if you can. YOu will not be happy with anything less as you really want the TT.
Nobody has one of those anywhere??????

Kenal0

Bike Friday New World Tourist with Drop Bars or H Bars..... Never mind it will take almost as long to get that. I say wait if you can. YOu will not be happy with anything less as you really want the TT.
Nobody has one of those anywhere??????

Kenal0

Or their own version of TT bars, but never mind. Although I'll generally support BF quality over Dahon, it would cost a *lot* more to have them build up something like a Pocket Rocket or Crusoe with the same components as the Speed Pro TT. And as Kenal0 said, you'll still have to wait while they build it. The biggest advantage would be if you needed the custom fit.

Doh! Got a hot tip on the Dahon board about a regular SpeedPro at the Metro shop at 15th & 6th. Just rode it back. :D Twin SpeedPros... what a sight!

Picture maybe?

Kenal0

Just like to add, while flying around I found the time to drop by my RBS (remote bike shop) and test rode the Jetstream XP ... all 9kg of it.

I was sooooo impressed ... so smooth, so very light, and everything clicked.

Trees and houses were flying by it seems. Had to fight to keep the credit card pocketed.

A very fine ride; and good refocus on weight being where its at.