Advocacy & Safety - Signs on a university property

I used to be a student at York University in Toronto and still come up there occasionally. It is a major transportation hub: we have a lot of buses, both from Toronto and the surrounding regions, here. The university used to have a problem with cars parking and blocking bus traffic, so they decided to close a certain road to everything but buses. So they put up this sort of signs: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/driver/handbook/image/regulatory/donotenter.gif

and the following inscription in 7-inch letters:

----------
STRICTLY
BUSES
ONLY

250 fine
----------

There is a sidewalk along that road as well as bicycle parking.

So I have a few questions:

1) Assuming that the signs are put up by the university and not the city, are they legally binding? (I know the univesity had trouble getting people to pay their parking fines because the courts wouldn't grant them the right to charge those fines on their property. They had to resort to withholding diplomas and transcripts from students who had unpaid parking fines.)

2) I know I should really ask a university representative this, but do you think the university had in mind banning bicycles from the road? Cyclists never park along the side of the road; it's a short road and the speed limit is 20 kmph anyway, so it's not as though they are slowing anybody down. As I mentioned, there is bicycle parking along the road, but perhaps people are expected to walk their bikes on the sidewalk there?

3) Apart from what clearly is the sidewalk, there are also some wide paved paths through the University Common. Looks a lot like a park with an MUP. Does anyone have an idea on how to establish the legality of biking there? Not that I would want to bike there anyway (it's a short and often crowded stretch that spits one back onto the sidewalk after a few hundred metres), but I would like to know how one determines the legalities of path and road use on non-municipal property in general.

Ask the university. Anything else is just guessing.

Or you could rely on ignorance and ride like you want to until someone tries to stop you.


Don't over-think it. :p

It won't help the university whether I am legally obligated to follow their signage. They'll just say yes. I mean, who would put a sign up in huge letters that prohibits something and then say "Oh, actually you can just ignore it, it has no legal power."

I don't want to rely on what they say. They've been known to lie, and there have been plenty of controversies when the legality of their actions was questioned.

I dunno, I wouldn't want to get on the wrong side of a bus driver on their own turf.

Would you have the same dilemna if you were a pedestrian, skateboarder, roller skater or scooter user? You still wouldn't be a bus. Ride on in. You shuld be fine. If not, you'll be fined.

I dunno, I wouldn't want to get on the wrong side of a bus driver on their own turf. Actually, there are other cars there (university-owned vehicles such as security patrol cars or service vans) and a lot of peds crossing all the time. In a stretch of a few hundred metres (that's all there is to this U-shaped one way road) there is on the order of ten stop signs. I've never had any trouble with bus drivers there. In fact, no trouble with anybody there ever, and doubt I ever will. I am just interested in the legalities of things. Perhaps nobody else cares - that's pretty understandable. :) The thread will just die then.


Would you have the same dilemna if you were a pedestrian, skateboarder, roller skater or scooter user? You still wouldn't be a bus. Ride on in. You shuld be fine. If not, you'll be fined. Road signs do not apply to pedestrians, so I wouldn't have this dilemma. Skateboards, roller skates and scooters are not considered vehicles and are allowed on sidewalk most of the time. In fact, one reason I do not rollerblade around the city is that rollerbladers have very limited rights both on road and on sidewalk. At any rate, the crucial part is that they aren't vehicles and so road signs for the most part have no bearing on them.

Ask the university. Anything else is just guessing.

Or you could rely on ignorance and ride like you want to until someone tries to stop you.


Don't over-think it. :p

Ignorance is bliss...

I nearly got a $60 ticket for riding through my college campus at 8pm on a saturday evening. The campus does have explicit signs prohibiting this, yet there is virtually no safe/legal way around it in that part of town. It seemed pretty silly to be pulled over, considering the cop was the only person I saw there. Maybe he was just bored.

Play dumb and have lights on your bike- worked for me.

Ask the university. Anything else is just guessing.

^
+1

Get the facts from the highest official you can contact, then follow that rule, no matter what anyone tells you. The security guards (read = in most cases, low-wage idiots) will probably try to tell you otherwise. Tell them what you know and then ignore them.

If they try to take it to the top, they'll end up being the idiot.

-Kurt

I live close to and work near a college campus, and I would most likely say no.

It probably works a lot like parking tickets on college campuses. Our college even has its own police department, but unless you have physically registered your vehicle through the university, they cant track you down becuase they dont have access to running your tags.

Plus, depending on your location, bikes can get away with all sorts of laws that police wont enforce. :P Bicycles are almost seen as "not vehicles"

Ride through.

If anyone tries to stop you, just keep riding!

" breaking the law , breaking the law !"