Do we expect less?

[Trsnrtr]

I was reading the ActionBent thread and it brought up something that I've always wondered about bent riders. Do we seem to accept poorer workmanship than our DF brethern?

Specifically, it was the defective idler comment that jumped out at me, especially since a friend of mine just went through this on another well-known brand, which it seems by a recent Bentrider thread, that other owners of the same marque had the same problem.

Anyway, I've always wondered why recumbentists often seem to "settle" for bikes that are not comparable to DF industry standards. For example, I've seen some expensive bents with crappy brakes. Or, what about chain alignment or management that requires an inordinate amount of tinkering to quiet down or keep from rubbing? Or what about cable ties? What is it with bent riders and cable ties? What about slipping seat mounts or flimsy struts? I've seen risers with misaligned bolt holes on multi-thousand bikes that had to be redrilled and helicoiled before the bike could leave the shop. These are only a few items that come to mind in a couple of seconds.

I didn't even touch on the proprietary parts nature of many bents.

Is it such that our numbers are so small that we are starved for models of bents and that we'll accept anything? Or is it that we tend to be tinkerers and like to "deal" with small issues on our bikes?

Don't get me wrong, I've owned one bent that has been exemplary for 10,000 miles with little maintenance and I've seen many bents and trikes that are engineering marvels but I've also seen expensive bents touted that had numerous compromises in design and function.

Just curious and maybe it's just me but it seems that we deserve the same quality as a solidly made inexpensive upright buyer would find.

Dennis

P.S. Note that I didn't name any manufacturers here and didn't intend for it to become a *****fest about certain brands.

[Bikes-N-Drums]

Is it such that our numbers are so small that we are starved for models of bents and that we'll accept anything? Or is it that we tend to be tinkerers and like to "deal" with small issues on our bikes?

IMO, I think all parts manufacturers produce X-amount of products that turn out to be lemons and some of them end up on our 'bents. The bent community is relatively small and when the few people that have issues report it, it gets blown out of proportion. I don't see a collective groan from the bent community in being forced to "accept anything". I see a few people ticked off because, for example, an expensive part broke.

[LandLuger]

An excellent thread. I've never had this answered to my satisfaction either. One big part is that you're going to have to pay twice the amount to get the same level of bike compared to a DF. Second, as you have observed, many owners like to customize. Is that what you meant by "tinker?" My first 'bent was purchased on Ebay from an outfit in WA--no names right? Anyway, it doesn't compare in refinement nor design to my current bike pictured to the left. However, the new bent was almost four times the investment. Money must be at the root of the issue.

[jeff-o]

I think a lot has to do with the experience and size of the manufacturers themselves. Massive bike building outfits like Trek or Giant have been building bikes for decades. They can afford to hire engineers and quality-control groups, and buy expensive fabrication equipment. They also have access to deeply discounted parts, since they buy so many of them.

In contrast, most recumbent manufacturers are a fraction of the size. Who is the largest 'bent manufactuer in the world right now? I'm not sure, but they are definitely smaller than most name-brand upright bike manufacturers. As a result, their staff is smaller, their equipment may not be as new or fancy, and they pay higher prices for components. Sometimes, to keep prices within the realm of "affordable," compromises have to be made.

You can see these compromises in the less expensive recumbents. The frames are made in Taiwan, they sometimes use lower-end components, and sometimes things don't line up to the nearest fraction of an inch. If you look at high-end recumbents like the Velokraft, Challenge, or custom ICE trikes, the fit & finish is just as high as any DF bike. But, the price is very high.

So yes, recumbent riders do sometimes have to compromise a little. Fortunately, most recumbent owners are quite pleased with their rides, and feel that the price/extra tinkering are totally worth it. I am one of this group. A bike that needs a few bolts tightened is just as lovable as one that is immaculate from the start (but is far less unique).

[Trsnrtr]

IMO, I think all parts manufacturers produce X-amount of products that turn out to be lemons and some of them end up on our 'bents. The bent community is relatively small and when the few people that have issues report it, it gets blown out of proportion.

I'm sure there's a lot of truth in this. We are a very small, close knit and vocal community. One of us has a problem and everybody gets to hear it, so I'd at least give this argument some worthwhile thought.

[Trsnrtr]

Second, as you have observed, many owners like to customize. Is that what you meant by "tinker?"

Yep, that's what I meant. It appears by many of the posts here and at bentrider online that a certain amount of "customization" or modification to one's bent is acceptable whether needed or not.

One example is my Baron which I dearly love. I've changed the brakes, seat, wheels, headset, cranks and BB, shifters, rear derailleur and altered the chainline. It probably didn't "need" all of that but it certainly is a better and more reliable bike (to me) than as it came from the factory.

Dennis

[LandLuger]

I'll contrast it like this. My first road bike was a Trek 1000 one of the last years built in the old stateside frame facility. I've never once had the inclination to change a single element on the bike until it was completely wornout. However, every single 'bent that I've ever owned required that I change this or that to get it to work as smoothly as I expected/demanded.

[blknwhtfoto]

I think a lot of the problem is that the market price for bents is considerably higher that DW's so we expect more.Also we're a small community, so we feel the negative a bit more quickly. On top of it, many of us are new to bents so it takes us a bit longer to fix a small issue that comes up. Like on a DF, seat posts will squirm around sometimes, but put some antiseize and maybe a shim in and youre fine, but problems that may be simple are just so new to us that we don't know how to cope with them.

[Wavshrdr]

[QUOTE=Trsnrtr]I was reading the ActionBent thread and it brought up something that I've always wondered about bent riders. Do we seem to accept poorer workmanship than our DF brethern?QUOTE]

Since there are fewer players in the bent market you have fewer choices obviously. As a result each time you vote with your $$$ you are saying either yea or nay to that companies products, policies and service. So if you patronize companies that you don't like (but because there may be no other options) then you implicitly condone their business practices.

Where this becomes self-defeating is if manuf "A" builds very high quality bikes but there are fewer models and more expensive than manuf "B" who makes cheaper (both in price and quality) bikes, and has poorer service but with a great range of models. If you continue to buy B's products then they will think that what they are doing is best. Company A at some point may get out of the market and all you will be left with is the bikes from B. Now nobody likes to overpay for anything.

However when you get into a low cost bidder situation you often get what you pay for. Unfortunately there aren't a ton of choices in the bent world. If people who are new to bents buy company B's bikes because the price is attractive but the bike sucks they could be turned off to bents forever. This ultimately can hurt us all. The bigger this market expands beyond a tiny niche the more we all benefit.

I am all for a reasonably priced bent that had good quality components that is stood behind by a good service group and with good customer service. I am not looking for a company that makes the Rolls Royces of the bent world nor do I want to buy one that has the customer service and reliability of a Yugo either.

Sadly even a simple part issue can render a bent unridable or uselss. Many bents if they have issues with the idler wheels can have a big problem with the chain management. If your bearing goes bad it mucks up everything. The average person who buys on that isn't a gearhead is not going to have an easy time tracking down a bearing to replace it.

I hope we will have more competition and that competitive market pressures will help everyone.

[sbhikes]

My Catrike seems to me to have excellent workmanship. Nothing needs replacing or tinkering. It works perfectly. I've never had trouble with anything or wished for anything to be different on it. Only a few nuts and bolts have been tightened and that's it.

Most of the folks who get bents, it appears to me, are tinkerers anyway.

[megaman]

We are a very small, close knit and vocal community. One of us has a problem and everybody gets to hear it

I have a hybrid(no longer ride it), that had a variety of problems. But I just dealt with it cause it was just an ordinary nothing special bike. Since bents are a lot more expensive than DFs I think we have a desire to have the bent be "perfect" for us. After all it is an investment, right? Not just another bike purchase.
I have a LWB bent that has had some minor issues, but with that manufacturer they were just introducing that model. Don't new DF models ever have issues, and how long does it take them to fix those issues? Now, when I got my trike, I thought there was some issues. They weren't really issues it turns out. These were just routine things I needed to do to get the thing sized for me. I suspect I'll be riding this trike for a long time, a lot longer than my first bent. That's what happens when you pay more for something better. So, if you ride it for a lot longer than you did for a more inexpensive bike, isn't it just as good a value.