Commuting - Bay Area vs. Seattle

Which is better for cycling? Also, what about other amenities in each city, such as hiking trails, nightlife, crime, public transportation, culture, etc....

I gotta get out of Raleigh. I'm either moving to one of these two cities in the spring or cycling from Costa Rica up to Canada and then moving to one of these two cities. Can't decide to finish school(will have an Associate's degree as of Dec.) then travel, or cycle then go to school....... I need advice!!!!


Gabe

If you want to buy a house in SF I'll probably die laughing. If you want to buy in Seattle I'll probably just give a couple good guffaws. Either way, hope you like apartment living.

Check the weather... that might be a consideration as well.

Bay Area dude. When you get sick of ALL the great riding, you can try your hand @ NOR-CAL surfing. Plus one for being a lifetime renter. That's the price you pay to live in a city that doesn't suck. As for weather... it's fall year round in SF. Most summer days are in the 50's and 60's.

Depending on how you define "nightlife" Seattle has a lot going for it. There definitely seems to be a bit more of a live music scene even though it's a smaller city.

Safety-wise, Seattle feels pretty safe to me, but I don't have any statistics to back this up really. Bike commuters are very common here though.

They're both very expensive places to buy a home, but rents here have kind of leveled off. Seattle has a pretty good bus system but SF has BART.

Nature-wise both have a lot to offer.

IMO your deciding factor should be the job market, and you should probably check Monster or Craigslist for both cities to see what kinds of jobs are out there.

The two cities are pretty similar except for weather. It rains incessantly in Seattle through the year. There are some sunny days in summer if you're lucky.
Crime is probably a little worse in the Bay area.
Hiking trails in the Cascades are as close as 45 minutes from downtown Seattle. It's a little further to similar terrain from downtown SF, but still pretty close.

Don't know about Seattle but have heard it has a very good quality of life. The Bay Area is a mixed bag. San Francisco is beautiful but can have many of the problems a city can have. I guess that could be true for Seattle too though. There are nice pockets all over the Bay Area but you may have a hard time beating Marin County, other side of the GG Bridge; Doesn't have that gnarly urban vibe that alot of the east bay, SF has and it has Mt. Tam, Marin Headlands and other great riding areas. Not the cheapest area to live but it's high just about everywhere. The weather, like someone mentioned, can be cool even in summer in SF itself but if you go jut 10 or 12 miles north into Marin it gets quite a bit warmer. It can be 59 in SF and 90 just 15 miles away because you get away from the fog...look on a map SF is essentially an island...best of both worlds may be somewhere like Corte Madera or San Anselmo; near the city but far enough away for better weather and little crime. (my apologies to people who live there trying to keep a low profile) As far as night life probably not so great in marin but then again I never thought SF was all that great either.

I grew up in the Northwest; Olympia for my childhood, then lived in Seattle for 12+ years. I moved to SF in the mid 80's and frankly, I think the SF area has it all. I now live in Marin, and commute daily across the GG Bridge to SF. There is a great combination of on and off road riding right out my back door. The weather is predictable and rain minimal. I usually lose less than 20 commute days per year due to weather (and I am by no means hardcore about riding in the rain). I can almost always count on good riding on the weekend. From my experience cars are not an issue generally, and I am treated respectfully on the road. One downside I would see is less rideable single track. The hikers/horsers have managed to be better organized, and gotten bikes off most of the singletrack in Marin. You travel further north, or down to Santa Cruz for more singletrack if you like.

Cost is another issue. While I know the NW has gone up in price much in the past 20 years, the Bay is still a tough nut to crack financially. There is also a lot of money around here, and you need to not get caught up trying to keep up. I see lots of folks get caught up- gotta have a better car, bike, house etc. and before they know it they have more debt than fun.

I find plenty to do in terms of nightlife. Both from the club scene, and other things liek art, live acting, symphony etc. Its all here. Lots of folks pu-pu the music scene. But like any area you need to know the spots, and know the music you like. Its there, you just need to look. Crime in Marin is low. Crime in SF is as it is in any big city- bad in some spots, less bad in others. THe homeless situation in SF is sobering, more so than Seattle.

Seattle is great, and I am in no way knocking it. My folks and many friends still live there, and I love to visit. But for my experience having spent about half my life in each place, I choose SF. Your mileage may vary......

dude, do the bike tour. You likely won't regret it. If you start to regret it, stop and go to either seattle or bay area or just keep on riding.

That being said....the bay area is expensive. There's really not any argument against that. The weather in the bay area is good. There's not really any argument against that either. Many of the responses have been about SF and marin. I'll just mention that the whole bay area is expensive (oakland, berkeley, SJ, san mateo...everywhere), and the weather is very diverse (diverse within the 'good cycling weather' range anyway). there are places that aren't as expensive as SF, but that's like saying that not all leerjets are $20mil.

Is the choice really either bay area or seattle or is it more like "something that is not raleigh". Of course if it's the later, I'd bring up Portland. I've never been there but it's always on the short list of best cycling cities. I'm even considering it, but as a california native, I'm a little iffy about the weather.

Alaska cannot be beat.

Best views, great trails, good people.

Gets a little chilly from October to April, but nothing some warm undies cannot solve.

I am one of the few remaining Seattle-area natives. I also get down to the Bay Area frequently on business. In terms of cycling amenities, and perhaps most importantly, the cycling weather, the Bay Area is superior. There are about five months out of the year in Seattle that are relatively rain-free (May-September). The cultural aspects of the Bay Area are better than Seattle. Unfortunately, the cost of living and housing is far greater in the Bay Area, but that can be countered by a better employment picture depending upon your profession.

On the upside in Seattle, is I can be hiking or snowshoeing (in the Stevens Pass area) 50 miles from my house. But unless you already have a job, or have a job that is in demand in this area, prepare for a hunt. You may want to look on the online classifieds in the Seattle and San Francisco newspapers to check out the job prospects.

I went to graduate school in Seattle and my wife's family is from San Francisco. Comparing the two areas:

Culturally, SF is tops. It is a world-class city, with great drama, music, museums, libraries. It's been said that, of US cities there are San Francisco, New Orleans, and New York -- the rest are all Newark. The climate is Mediterranean and mild -- it is a great place to be outside, year-round. A 3-4 hour drive gets you up to Tahoe. Driving can be a hassle in SF, due to limited parking, so a bike is often.

Seattle is an up-and-coming city, but not quite San Francisco yet. Seattle Opera is pretty good. It does rain a lot of the time from September to March, although it is usually such a fine mist that rain gear is not required. If you want to dive, ski (XC and downhill), hike within a short distance from the city, Seattle wins. San Francisco is good, but Seattle is better in this respect. A two hour drive gets you into the Cascades. Bike commuting has been well established in Seattle for at least 30 years.

Seattle has an upscale crunchy-grainola feel to it, where SF is more sophisticated and bohemian.

Paul

Yes the Bay Area is expensive but some towns more than others. In Marin Mill Valley and towns close to the GG Bridge are very expensive. The upside is you're next to Mt Tam and near the city while being in an almost rustic enviornment...since it's gotten so expensive though it also has aquired some of the snootiness that sometimes goes along with that. San Rafael which is 20 miles north of the GG Bridge on 101 is less expensive but like alot of county seats had some scruffy areas. Novato, 10 miles further on may be the answer. It's not so 'Marin' as the rest of the county and that has it's plusses and minus. It's more of a suburb feel to it but when you get off the freeway and into the town it's quite beautiful surrounded by alot of open space hills and still only 10 or 15 miles if you want to access Mt Tam although there are some trails around there as well. It's not a bad compromise being at least not so expensive as the rest of the county and probably has the best weather in the bay Area if not on earth. (that's no exaggeration there)

Thought I'd bump this thread back up

BTW while your post is titled "bay area" most of the replies have focused on the city of SF itself. there's much more to the bay area than just SF, and depending on your lifestyle / career / personality, you might be happier (and left with more $ after paying rent) in the East or South Bay. Just sayin'.

(eric, south bay partisan)

BTW while your post is titled "bay area" most of the replies have focused on the city of SF itself. there's much more to the bay area than just SF, and depending on your lifestyle / career / personality, you might be happier (and left with more $ after paying rent) in the East or South Bay. Just sayin'.

(eric, south bay partisan)I'm a South Bay refugee, and I'll never go back. Like what's her name said, there's no "there" there. San Francisco, Sausalito, Marin are all more pricey (although San Jose is getting *very* expensive), but you get what you pay for.

East Bay, there's Berkeley. That's it.

Get the degree, then take the tour. this will give you time to figure the rest out!!:D

The two cities are pretty similar except for weather. It rains incessantly in Seattle through the year. There are some sunny days in summer if you're lucky.

Spoken like a true Citizen For Lesser Seattle booster!

I grew up in North Carolina, moved to the Bay Area, then moved back to NC.

I loved the Bay Area. I lived (rented) in Menlo Park and Burlingame, before ending up in Livermore just before I moved back. The peninsula was the best, but I got tired of the traffic. Livermore allowed me to live just a few minutes away from the "good life" and still feel like I was in a small town.

Of course, it has been twenty years since I left California, so things may have changed for the worse.

San Francisco sucks! Seattle rules!
(Ummm, did he buy it? I'm not very good at lying, but you guys need to keep it quiet and stop saying all those nice things about the Bay Area. It's already too popular - that's why it costs so damn much).

The two cities are pretty similar except for weather. It rains incessantly in Seattle through the year. There are some sunny days in summer if you're lucky.


Quite right. It was very dreary today, not the mid 70's that I saw reported on the TV. It has been the same for the last week and a half as well. Tomorrow the forecast is for more rain continuing to November when it will change to rain with scattered showers. You should definitely settle in the Bay Area and tell all your friends to do the same!

Seriously, I've always said that when it's nice in Seattle there is no place nicer. The summers are nearly perfect and winter gives you the opportunity to take in several area ski mountains. Or, if you wish you can head up to Whistler. Road cycling in Seattle is very well established with extensive trail networks and motorists that are accustomed to cyclists. Mountain biking on Pacific NW singletrack is some of the best you'll ever find as well. I ride road and mountain year round because even when it's raining in the winter it's is generally light enough that you can cope with very light rain gear or none at all. Besides, a little water helps the mountain bike stay muddy!

I spent a good bit of last fall staying with friends in Oakland which ain't SanFran but I liked it reasonably well. Being a life long southerner the cost of living in CA really freaks me out but I assume one could get used to it. I'm giving some thought to moving out there for good in the next year or so(need to build up my bank)...I've never spent any time in Seattle...I liked Spokane pretty well but I'm sure it uber different than Seattle. I friends living in Bellingham that I'm planning to visit and hope to spend some time in Seattle next year...as well as Portland, OR.

I'm a South Bay refugee, and I'll never go back. Like what's her name said, there's no "there" there. San Francisco, Sausalito, Marin are all more pricey (although San Jose is getting *very* expensive), but you get what you pay for.

East Bay, there's Berkeley. That's it.

Her line was about Daly City, but I take your point.

Obviously a lot hinges on your personality and -- if I may hazard a pop-psych guess -- a desire to rebel against the comfortable and familiar. I grew up in Hawaii and feel almost the same way about it as you do about the South Bay (slight difference: I'll go back to visit, but I'll never live there again!)

I assure you there's a fine quality of life including bars, restauraunts, movies, live music, cultural activities, quality transit, and plenty of good biking to be had in SJ and environs.

This week its zeroOne .. http://01sj.org/

Seriously, I've always said that when it's nice in Seattle there is no place nicer. The summers are nearly perfect and winter gives you the opportunity to take in several area ski mountains.

Shhhhh! You'll give away the secret that Seattle isn't a perpetual grey-skied rain magnet! :rolleyes:

I moved here last year from Cincinnati, and I love it here. The winters may be grey and damp from October to April (or May,) but it's hardly ever a pouring rain like I was used to in the midwest. The cycling is good year 'round, even though there's the guarantee that sooner (not later) it will be damp. Raingear is a must, but it's just something that you get used to for half the year.
The summer is beautiful. The rain holds off and saves it all up for the winter, I think. Temperatures (except for this year) are not very hot except for a couple weeks in August or September.

My favourite thing about the Seattle area is how close a variety of activities are. There's cycling year 'round. Kayaking (if your into cold water) year 'round. Yet, you can drive 40 to 90 minutes from downtown and be up in any of a large selection of mountain areas for skiing, snowboarding, and snowshoeing all winter. There's low elevation hiking trails for year 'round use if you're not into the snow, and there's 6000 footers a-plenty if you're into alpine climbing.

Housing in Seattle is pricey to buy unless you want to live at least a 30 mile commute from anything. Nothing like living close to SF, (from what I've heard through friends,) though. As with the Bay Area, you can find reasonable apartments if you look hard enough. Not everything in Seattle and the East Side is a $2.75/sq.ft. monthly cost, and the less expensive places don't mean you'll live in a rat-hole, either. (Although, you do have to check around because we have our fair share of cheap apartments that are really cheap for a reason!) Most of the time, apartments will be less expensive because you're not in a "prime" location: a.k.a. On the same block as the mall.

My vote's with Seattle, but mostly because I've been to SF and I'm just not a "California" kind of person. However, I agree with everyone that's said to take a bike tour of both areas and make your own decision based on that. What better 'excuse' for a bike tour than an *actual reason* to take one?

I just spent the weekend in SF visiting siblings (I used to live in Marin and SF too.) I had a superb ride all over town on Saturday morning. I got back here and just decided to browse a little on Monster.com -- and lo and behold I found a great potential job in my line of work. I polished up the resume last night and finished my cover letter at work today - then I found out that a friend has done business with the company before and I hooked up with someone inside to deliver my info to the recruiter! Wish me luck: I am in LA right now, and the weather, the life, and the riding in SF are all calling to me.

Anyway, I have visited Seattle before and I think I would be almost as likely to consider that equal to SF if I did not have a history and family connections in SF and LA. Seattle is beautiful and it definitely has better kayaking that SF - I know less about the biking there.

As a contrast I do like the "city" feel of SF - it feels qualitatively different to me than I remember Seattle - a little older feeling and slightly richer history. It seems like it may also have more to offer in its culture and its cultural diversity in the city and the East Bay. The SF landscape and the architecture have a lot of character. The Golden Gate bridge is beautiful, and across it are the Marin headlands which offer abundant green and open spaces.

Oh, how will I choose a neighborhood though?

Seattle is beautiful and it definitely has better kayaking that SF - I know less about the biking there.

Less likely to get eaten by a shark, for sure. (biking or kayaking)

You know, its a combination of the rain, the dark and the gloom in the winter that tests mens' souls in the Northwest.


Emmett Watson for mayor....


Spoken like a true Citizen For Lesser Seattle booster!

You know, its a combination of the rain, the dark and the gloom in the winter that tests mens' souls in the Northwest.

Plus it inspires you to find out what really is the good coffee.

Cycle from Costa Rica to Canada, that way you can pass thru both cities.
But once you get to Canada, turn around and go home, were outta room :)

I grew up in the Bay Area and made the mistake of moving back 10 years ago. This area, specifically Marin County, SF and the Peninsula, is not just expensive, it is uber-expensive (approx $750K median home price). The job market is great if you are super-specialized, otherwise it is not that hot in terms of pay. As a result, there is a growing gap between the wealthy elite (doctors, lawyers, high-tech guru's, etc) who flaunt their wealth in fancy homes and cars, and everyone else, many of whom have to commute a long distance to where they work.

This makes for a situation that is just not normal. A lot of aggressive, materialistic people fighting to get a piece of the pie. Horrible commutes in and out of the area, especially on the weekend. Plus, the weather is generally chilly and windy in the evening all summer long, and I'm really tired of it. Time to bust out of here.

I think Seattle is a good choice, although traffic is horrible. Portland is even better (imho), but good jobs are scarce and pay is low overall. No place is perfect, at least for very long.

This makes for a situation that is just not normal. A lot of aggressive, materialistic people fighting to get a piece of the pie. Horrible commutes in and out of the area, especially on the weekend. Plus, the weather is generally chilly and windy in the evening all summer long, and I'm really tired of it. Time to bust out of here.

I think Seattle is a good choice, although traffic is horrible. Portland is even better (imho), but good jobs are scarce and pay is low overall. No place is perfect, at least for very long.

Geez, bitter much? Where are you headed next? And is there a betting pool on how long before you hate it there too?

I grew up in the Bay Area and made the mistake of moving back 10 years ago. This area, specifically Marin County, SF and the Peninsula, is not just expensive, it is uber-expensive (approx $750K median home price). The job market is great if you are super-specialized, otherwise it is not that hot in terms of pay. As a result, there is a growing gap between the wealthy elite (doctors, lawyers, high-tech guru's, etc) who flaunt their wealth in fancy homes and cars, and everyone else, many of whom have to commute a long distance to where they work.

This makes for a situation that is just not normal. A lot of aggressive, materialistic people fighting to get a piece of the pie. Horrible commutes in and out of the area, especially on the weekend. Plus, the weather is generally chilly and windy in the evening all summer long, and I'm really tired of it. Time to bust out of here.

I think Seattle is a good choice, although traffic is horrible. Portland is even better (imho), but good jobs are scarce and pay is low overall. No place is perfect, at least for very long.
This is generally true. I've been in Seattle for about 8 years now. While I still like it, it's getting too big for it's own good. Still, rent isn't awful, and jobs are plentiful. As a city, I love Portland, but geographically it's not as beautiful as Seattle. I've heard mixed things about the job market: supposedly it's getting better if you have the right skills (tech, health care, etc.).

I have to agree with what people have said about San Francisco. It's magnificent. I've only been to Seattle once, so I can't really comment. I will say this: When I moved from the Bay Area to Portland, I felt for the first time in my life that buying a house was within the realm of possibility. But San Francisco will always be home.

You know Bay Area is more then just SF. Although it does have the most night life. Ridding is good, hiking is ok. Not sure what you can do with AA around here thought. With Berkeley and Stanford here most employees are looking for atleast BS degree for technical position.