>>>>>The 34-year-old mother of five in Pottstown, Pa., had to file for personal bankruptcy about a year ago in the face of mounting medical bills from her husband's open heart surgery. Despite her poor credit history, Redd was able to lease the three-year-old car from Williams Pre-Owned of Limerick on the condition that it have a starter-interrupt device.
''At least I was able to save the house,'' said Redd.<<<<<<
Here's a very sad story folks about the state of the motorist today. There are two items I like to mention relating to the article.
First, it's sad that a person who has so much debt and financial burden with a huge household has to go out and purchase a fairly new car. This is what happens when your livelihood and entertainment depends on maintaining an engine. I estimate there are millions of poor motorists who are trapped and have to make huge sacrifices just to be able to drive. I spend the EXACT same amount she does per month on my rail ticket or about $94.00 dollars. However, I don't need to acquire any debt, pay interest charges, repairs, gasoline, insurance, tolls, tickets and maintenance. On the weekends, my transportation is free due to the monthly pass while hers is not. If this woman were car free, she would have a lot more discretionary cash and probably wouldn't needed to declare bankruptcy in the first place.
Second, it never ceases to amaze me what dealers and financing companies are doing to the desperate motorist. Like drug dealers, they keep coming up with ways to force the motorist in making time payments. For a measly $94.00 dollars, this woman could lose her only means of transportation. It's a very sad situation indeed and those us who are car free can only imagine our bicycles not working due to some electronic device. What the poor motorist does not understand is that transportation is cheap or free for those who designed their lives to take advantage of this situation. Since those of us who are carfree have found a way, we are FREE of draconian measures like this "Payment Protection System" that restricts our liberty to work, travel, live. This is just another reason why we choose to be car free.
adgrant
06-14-06, 09:49 AM
Actually, it is really a sad story about the state of U.S. health care today. Lack of medical insurance appears to be what bankrupted Ms Redd. Of course, supporting five children and a sick spouse could not have helped.
If you couldn't come up with "a measly $94.00 dollars", you too would be walking.
TuckertonRR
06-14-06, 10:23 AM
Steve,
Not defending cars & car culture by any means, but, in looking at a new job for myself, I've seen a LOT of "must have own car" etc, and also work places that are far from public transport & dense residential areas. Part of one owning their own car is subsidizing the employer. (the employer could choose to do business in a public-transport, dense environment, but chooses not to) Instead, they choose cheap locales for their businesses and expect the employees to subsidize the employer. (by having to drive everywhere)
Roody
06-14-06, 05:51 PM
+1 Tuckerton. Years ago an employer seeking a location for a new shop or office would likely insist that it be on a bus line or near a train station. Now, new jobsites are often located in the exurbs, where many workers truly are "forced to drive."
smurfy
06-15-06, 07:36 AM
Like Dahon.Steve says, this just shows how much cars are an addiction, just like a drug. Worst thing ever invented. Sometimes I actually crave a car and then I remind myself of all the related expenses of one and then I'm glad I don't have one. Occasionally I'll rent a car if I need it for something so that's my "methodone".
Dahon.Steve
06-15-06, 07:53 AM
+1 Tuckerton. Years ago an employer seeking a location for a new shop or office would likely insist that it be on a bus line or near a train station. Now, new jobsites are often located in the exurbs, where many workers truly are "forced to drive."
I still find it hard to believe that anyone in this country is "forced to drive" for employment. There's no one saying you have to follow that employer to the exurbs because the net is full of employment opportunites. Is this employer the only one paying decent wages within 25 miles? Can you move to a different city or one that offers more job opportunites? I just don't believe that people are tied down to one company or town the rest of their lives. We are not slaves to a job.
Dahon.Steve
06-15-06, 08:03 AM
Actually, it is really a sad story about the state of U.S. health care today. Lack of medical insurance appears to be what bankrupted Ms Redd. Of course, supporting five children and a sick spouse could not have helped.
If you couldn't come up with "a measly $94.00 dollars", you too would be walking.
Agreed.
The lack of health care in the US is just another problem in the world today. Also understand that if Ms. Redd were car free, she might have had the money to pay for health insurance for her husband. In fact, health insurance for her motorcar came first before her husband which as you can see led to their bankruptcy. She couldn't cut out her second biggest expense (the motorcar) and had to takce chances in not covering her husband. I've been there myself where my car was insured and I wasn't. After paying all the associated cost of a motorcar, I didn't have money to buy even the cheapest health insurance plan. I'm not saying the U.S. should not have provide health insurance for all it's citizens, but until that day happens, we must be prepared by buying health insurance. How do I get this extra money? Being car free!
adgrant
06-15-06, 08:19 AM
I still find it hard to believe that anyone in this country is "forced to drive" for employment. There's no one saying you have to follow that employer to the exurbs because the net is full of employment opportunites. Is this employer the only one paying decent wages within 25 miles? Can you move to a different city or one that offers more job opportunites? I just don't believe that people are tied down to one company or town the rest of their lives. We are not slaves to a job.
Its partly a question of priorities. Not needing a car is not most people's top priority when it comes to finding an employer. Salary, benefits and the actual work are far more important. I am not sure where in the U.S. you live, but there are plenty of places where a bicycle is not a practical form of transportation 365 days a year.
TuckertonRR
06-15-06, 08:23 AM
I still find it hard to believe that anyone in this country is "forced to drive" for employment. There's no one saying you have to follow that employer to the exurbs because the net is full of employment opportunites. Is this employer the only one paying decent wages within 25 miles? Can you move to a different city or one that offers more job opportunites? I just don't believe that people are tied down to one company or town the rest of their lives. We are not slaves to a job.
Steve,
No, Noone is "forced" to really do anything in this country. Ultimately, it's everyone's personal choice. However, If you look through the internet job sites, *alot* of jobs are located in real out of the way places. Why can't these employers move to more transit-friendly sites, or into downtowns? Or where there's dense residential development? And, if one _needs_ work, and the only offer you get is in a nondescript "office park" 30+ miles from where you live, what do you do? In effect, your car ownership is an additional subsidy to the employer. They get to be cheap and locate in a cheap cheap place for them.
I do understand your point, though.
adgrant
06-15-06, 08:27 AM
Agreed.
The lack of health care in the US is just another problem in the world today. Also understand that if Ms. Redd were car free, she might have had the money to pay for health insurance for her husband. In fact, health insurance for her motorcar came first before her husband which as you can see led to their bankruptcy. She couldn't cut out her second biggest expense (the motorcar) and had to takce chances in not covering her husband. I've been there myself where my car was insured and I wasn't. After paying all the associated cost of a motorcar, I didn't have money to buy even the cheapest health insurance plan. I'm not saying the U.S. should not have provide health insurance for all it's citizens, but until that day happens, we must be prepared by buying health insurance. How do I get this extra money? Being car free!
We don't really know why she and her husband didn't have health insurance or what kind of car she had before her husband became ill. However, insurance for a family of five is not cheap, probably a lot more than $94 a month.
In any case, the best way to get good health insurance is to work for the right employer. Even if that means commuting by car.
jamesdenver
06-15-06, 10:39 AM
The book "Nickel and Dimed" Barbara Ehrenreich, and "The Working Poor" give incredible insight to those who "need employment" more than "employers need them" (my words). Not having a car is considered unreliable, but in most cases bikes (and transit) is often MORE reliable than a car, and will cause employees LESS time away from the job for service.
A few years ago I worked p/t at a gas station near my house to make some extra travel money. Going from my office where I can do what I want (providing my job is done), and within reason come in and leave as I see fit, to an environment where employers are treated as theives and a liability to a company is terrible. But some service industry employers won't pay more for a living wage, just as some companies will take the cheaper rent out in the boonies
Artkansas
06-15-06, 10:47 AM
I still find it hard to believe that anyone in this country is "forced to drive" for employment. There's no one saying you have to follow that employer to the exurbs because the net is full of employment opportunites. Is this employer the only one paying decent wages within 25 miles? Can you move to a different city or one that offers more job opportunites? I just don't believe that people are tied down to one company or town the rest of their lives. We are not slaves to a job.
Yah know, Steve, I don't have a problem living car free. I pedal 2.5 miles to work and, I can come in to work at 7am or 3pm and no one cares. But that's part of my unique situation. And I did move half-way across the country to get it. But I know that doesn't apply to everyone.
My ex-wife certainly has to have a car for her job. She is Marketing and PR Director for the local zoo. Sometimes she has to be at work at 4:30 am looking fresh and collected to be on TV for the morning shows. Sometimes she has to be at black-tie affairs in makeup and a nice dress and shoes. She is also active in local business and media industry functions. If she is at home and something major happens, she has to be there immediately to deal with the press.
Living nearer her employer was very difficult because the zoo is next to the residences of very rich people including Bill Gates. We lived where we did because we had moved there before she worked for the zoo; we had a sweet deal with the landlords since we had been living there long before the real estate values soared; and we were good tenants so our rent was real low.
Yes, in her field, where she works is the only employer for about 150 miles. Not all employers are equal either. In a larger employer, she probably would have gotten stuck in the education department. In a smaller one, there would have been no job at all. The makeup of the power structure could aid or prevent her from doing what she is best at. Her current set up is very right for her. Now that she's made it to a high-level position and has experience she can move about more freely to larger employers in the future. But if my hunch is correct, she's in the best place already.
It's not slavery to a job Steve, sometimes its realizing that a certain situation offers unique opportunity.
adgrant
06-15-06, 10:50 AM
The book "Nickel and Dimed" Barbara Ehrenreich, and "The Working Poor" give incredible insight to those who "need employment" more than "employers need them" (my words). Not having a car is considered unreliable, but in most cases bikes (and transit) is often MORE reliable than a car, and will cause employees LESS time away from the job for service.
A lot of people in that book did take mass transit which can be more reliable than a cheap car IF the route and schedule fit in with your working arrangements. Bikes aren't going to be appealing to people commuting long distances in the middle of a Chicago winter.
That book is a very strong illustration that having have a good job should be a priority for all U.S. residents. The U.S. is not a good place to be poor. Valuing a car free lifestyle over a good job is better suited to countries like Denmark which has a strong welfare state and heavily penalizes car owners and the wealthy.
cerewa
06-15-06, 11:59 AM
Dahon.Steve, do you pay $94 per month for rail transportation? The woman in the article pays $94 per week to lease her pontiac, says the article.
Here in the philadelphia area, some people pay $145 per month for a commuter rail pass, but that's nothing compared to $94 per week ($407 per month) plus gas and insurance for a car.
Roody
06-15-06, 12:03 PM
Stop and think. Not all Americans can have a good job that is close to home. Many (most?) employers really don't give a crap about their employees. In most communities, there is a limited number of places where one can work.
Everyone should move to where there are good jobs? Impossible. If everybody did that "Goodjobtown," wherever it is, would be overrun and some there would be unemployed. Then the surplus of labor would enable employers to reduce pay and benefits. Then you have good jobs with bad pay.
Everyone should get more education so they can get a better job? What happens when all the better jobs are taken? Then you will have people with Masters degrees working in Walmart parking lots.
The practical solution is a lot more complicated than just telling people to move nearer to jobs, or to get more education.
rs_woods
06-15-06, 12:24 PM
free yourself -- drop out of the economic system. use the energy you save by not working for capital to organize community gardens, free lunches, and free markets. Use the time you save by not working for your employer to hunt/gather your food from the urban wilderness. Live like a romantic, sleep under the stars, fall in love, write beautiful poetry in the mist rolling over the cliff's edge at dawn, ignore people who call you a bum.
jamesdenver
06-15-06, 12:42 PM
Part of it is also educating yourself financially so that the money you make from "good paying job in good location" can sustain you for a period of time when you lose "good paying job"
It's overstating the obvious, but many people just don't do it. Somehow new cars, and having a huge house is more important that the above.
If more people saved backup money and could say "I quit" to an employer that treats them like crap, the employers that cater to the mid-level worker would become more apt to treat their employees like top-level companies do, and the employees would be happier.
It's overly simplistic I know, but I think it's smart to find a balance between "workin for the man all day", and "free yourself from the system" (RS Wood's post above). BUT thinking about it, by having the backup capital, no debt, you ARE still free.
adgrant
06-15-06, 01:05 PM
It's overly simplistic I know, but I think it's smart to find a balance between "workin for the man all day", and "free yourself from the system" (RS Wood's post above). BUT thinking about it, by having the backup capital, no debt, you ARE still free.
Was RS Wood serious? I assumed an implied smiley face. I agree with you that most people are lousy money managers and this makes them less free. No debt and a fat bank account can certainly make you more free. However, health care costs and accommodation costs can really eat into that nest egg. Once you have children of course, you can no longer be free.
rs_woods
06-15-06, 02:15 PM
I had a few jobs, but could never hold onto them for longer than a couple of months before I got bored and quit or got fired. Of course, as I was working I was saving every penny that didn't go to rent, food, or taxes. Then when I got bored and quit, I had plenty of money to last me until my next job. It worked really well, but when your employment track record shows you can't stay in one spot for more than 5 months at a time, well, you're pretty much unemployable. Nobody wants to train you for a month and only use you for two, then have you walk out on them.
adgrant
06-15-06, 02:34 PM
I had a few jobs, but could never hold onto them for longer than a couple of months before I got bored and quit or got fired. Of course, as I was working I was saving every penny that didn't go to rent, food, or taxes. Then when I got bored and quit, I had plenty of money to last me until my next job. It worked really well, but when your employment track record shows you can't stay in one spot for more than 5 months at a time, well, you're pretty much unemployable. Nobody wants to train you for a month and only use you for two, then have you walk out on them.
So how is life as a hunter/gatherer going? What do you do about health care, food and accomodation now employers have worked out you are unemployable. Do you post from a library?
rs_woods
06-15-06, 02:54 PM
sure do. health care is a scam. herbal and DIY remedies are cheaper and just as effective. food and "accomodation" (i assume you mean a place to sleep) are all around us. there is an alternative to selling your precious time for capital (which we all know -- from one look at wal mart or mcdonalds -- doesn't buy much we want anyway). unfortunately it's not accepted in our success-driven society, similar to the way the car-free cyclist is seen by motorists, i guess. but it's freedom and it's great.
but this isn't a thread about personal liberation, it's about some poor lady's misconceptions about material needs vs. social norms.
jamesdenver
06-15-06, 03:53 PM
sure do. health care is a scam. herbal and DIY remedies are cheaper and just as effective. food and "accomodation" (i assume you mean a place to sleep) are all around us. there is an alternative to selling your precious time for capital (which we all know -- from one look at wal mart or mcdonalds -- doesn't buy much we want anyway). unfortunately it's not accepted in our success-driven society, similar to the way the car-free cyclist is seen by motorists, i guess. but it's freedom and it's great.
but this isn't a thread about personal liberation, it's about some poor lady's misconceptions about material needs vs. social norms.
Hmmm - health care may be a scam, but it's a necessary scam for many. I take insulin (type 1 diabetic), and unfortunately herbs and prayers won't make my pancreas work again. So I AM dependent on my job for the insurance benefits. And I can't complain. I get the best treatment, best doctors, newest technology when it comes out, versus sitting in a waiting room with medicaid, where I would spend the entire day waiting for a checkup.
In a few years when I travel full time, (or an extended bike trip), I'll figure it out, maybe private insurance - but in this country health care and employment are WAYYY too tied together to be separated (which is unfortunate).
I agree with the mindset about being resourceful for yourself - I think growing vegetables would be a smart thing to learn, and I believe in trading services when possible. But I DO believe that having capital, and the security for unforseen events is smart too. Financial security gives me the the opportunity to do things like travel, learn a second langauge, and afford a bike.
I consider myself pretty open and enlightened, but for now trading eight hours a day for the money I have is a reasonable exchange. Just a moderate thought, should my job start requiring 12 hour days and 24 hr on call I'd say c ya.
I live simply, don't drive, spend my money on traveling and education rather than material items, but I don't think making money or having money is a bad thing.
rs_woods
06-15-06, 04:46 PM
I consider myself pretty open and enlightened...
Indeed, most people would disregard what I describe as bumming (regardless of how much I emphasize the community care aspect of it) and not give it a second thought. Your medical condition is unfortunate, and I'm sure you're doing the best you can to live free. I don't believe there's anything inherently wrong with earning or spending money, it's just that I have other priorities -- notably freedom, the extension of freedom to others, and the romantic notion that certain things can not be contained in a paper dollar bill. The time I would normally be spending working, I can now spend organizing things like Food/Bikes-not-Bombs, health care collectives, community gardens, and similar things to help others live free as well. Even if people keep their jobs and just eat our free stuff to save a buck or two, it still helps them significantly (a free dinner to a single mom with a half dozen kids goes a long way) and that gives me the confidence I need to know that I am doing the right thing with my life. This summer my major project is a bike tour (http://www.dnacom.com/RideForToys/tabid/101/Default.aspx) from Chicago to New Orleans to raise money for Toys for Tots. This money will go to the children of New Orleans' 2006 Christmas gifts, brightening up their lives, relieving the stress from their parents, and giving everyone hope that there is life beyond stuggle.
Or I could advance my career in journalism and write articles in the paper about other people who do this kind of thing.
I love my "job."
Roody
06-16-06, 11:41 AM
rs woods may be a bum, but he's a cool bum, and he's my hero of the week. I don't want to live like that (I tried for a while, many years ago), but I admire that he can.
World Tour
06-21-06, 10:44 AM
rs woods seems young, single and kid-free (not that there's anything wrong with that). But when you grow up, maybe you'll appreciate our civilized society more. Yes, the society that the bombs (and brave non-bum Americans) protect.
This woman couldn't live without a car having FIVE kids!!!
jamesdenver
06-21-06, 11:06 AM
I've met moms in many cities managing just fine without a car.
It's a matter of creature comforts. If you're used to hopping in the car every time you leave the house then it would seem alien to do anything else, but in other places being without a car IS the norm.
I've ridden the subways extensively in Chicago, New York, Buenos Aires, and Mexico City, and seen women with kids doing just fine. (And these are middle class women, not poverty stricken folks forced to use public transit).
But that goes back to city design and where and how one chooses to live. (Ok now someone needs to post that Netherlands photo of the lady with eight kids on the bike).
jamesdenver
06-21-06, 11:18 AM
Hey also I don't think someone who chooses to live "off the grid" so to speak can be labeled as rejecting civilized society.
If it's uncivilized to be resourceful for yourself in lieu of a job, than it's uncivilized for me to stay at my job and make a bit less money rather than move up and take a job with less vacation time. Just different levels of personal preference.
Not all who wander are lost, and it's sad that someone who stated himself as a writer, and is helping a children's hospital, (hey you have kids World Tour), would be seen as rejecting civilized society.
I think RS Woods priorities are much more secure and set in places than others "stuck in the civilized grind" (see my signature quote"
rs_woods
06-21-06, 11:59 AM
I'm at the ripe young age of 21, very single (looking! ;)), and very very kid free. And I don't plan on growing up. And I'm an army veteran ("brave non-bum American" as you put it). So while I'm sure you enjoy your life (that I helped "protect" and will continue to attempt to improve from my unemployed, civilian-status if you'll let me), I'd honestly throw myself in front of a car before I'd ever buy one.
adgrant
06-25-06, 12:13 PM
I'm at the ripe young age of 21, very single (looking! ;)), and very very kid free. And I don't plan on growing up. And I'm an army veteran ("brave non-bum American" as you put it). So while I'm sure you enjoy your life (that I helped "protect" and will continue to attempt to improve from my unemployed, civilian-status if you'll let me), I'd honestly throw myself in front of a car before I'd ever buy one.
It will be interesting to see if you feel the same way at forty. If you do feel the same way it will be interesting to see if you are still single. Very few women want to live child free and children are huge consumers of time and money.