Folding Bikes - For the City-- Mu XL or Swift with a Nexus hub?

So I've emailed Peter Reich asking how much a Swift with a Nexus 8 speed hub, mud guards, and big apples will cost. (I'm trying to craft a commuter bike for New York, with my only must haves being the 8 speed hub and mud guards.)

The only other bike I'm pondering is the Mu XL, which doesn't have the Swift's minimalist good looks, but is otherwise loaded with premium accessories. I don't need the dynamo, but the lights, rack, and to a lesser extent the thudbuster, are great accessories.

I'm being fairly deliberate, as Peter is very busy, and I haven't yet found a city bike shop with a Mu XL to test ride. Still, does anybody have any opinions, philosophical, technical or otherwise, on choosing between these two bikes?

Sincerely,
Ari

Hi
both are great bikes ..... the Mu will fold smaller and faster .... swift owners will tell you that their bike rides more like a full size bike....

which is good and bad .. i really like how the 20 inch folders feel riding compared to a full size bike....

Mu is a new design from Dahon and the first bikes out there ( like the testbikes which are running around since about 2 years ) are prooving that they are stiffer than their older siblings, despite lower weight.

HAving said that .... grain of salt..... asx I am a Dahon Dealer.... h0wever I dont have any Mu in stock and it will take a while ...

Thor

H'm, good question. I recently went from a lower-end Dahon to a Xootr Swift (derailleur). Disclaimer: not a huge fan of Dahon at the moment, so I'll try to be fair. :D I live around and ride tons in NYC, but I don't commute via bike.

At the risk of complicating things, if your commute is 15 miles or less each way, I'd recommend you check out a Brompton.

Mu XL Pro's: Decent fold, thudbuster, rack, can adjust handlebar height on the fly
Mu XL Con's: Heavy (28+ lbs), flexy frame, lots of proprietary/non-standard parts

Swift Pro's: Fast, very solid frame, lots of standard parts, light (with derailleur)
Swift Con's: Adequate fold

Brompton Pro's: Superior fold, built-in suspension and rack, nice ride, super convenient to carry, cart around and store
Brompton Con's: A little expensive, limited range (may not be great for rides longer than 15 miles)


To me, the weight and parts issues are the deal-killers for the Mu -- but you will have to deal with the weight anyway if you really want that internal hub. For the Swift, the big issue will be if it folds small enough for your purposes. The Brommie really is the optimal bike for urban commuting, but $900 will only get you a 3-speed hub. Offhand I can't think of any hills in NYC proper that you couldn't handle with a 3-speed Brompton, though.


As long as you're waiting for someone to get the Mu in stock, I recommend you drop in on B-Fold on 13th Street and check out the Bromptons and the Xootr Swift.


Edit:

swift owners will tell you that their bike rides more like a full size bike....
Well, they might be exaggerating a teeny bit. :) The Swift has the solid feel of a full size bike, but the steering feels about the same to me as any other 20" bike.

Mu XL Pro's: Decent fold, thudbuster, rack, can adjust handlebar height on the fly
Mu XL Con's: Heavy (28+ lbs), flexy frame, lots of proprietary/non-standard parts

I have a MU SL and I don't think there is anything at all flexy about the frame. My personal feeling on this issue is that most of the "flex" people report with the small wheeled Dahons result from poorly adjusted handlebar posts but I have no means of proving that.

Regarding the proprietary/nonstandard parts - all the commonly replaced parts on the Dahon are standard so I'm not sure that's really an issue.

On the other hand, I have the Dahon Thudbuster seat post on my Speed TR. It's ok but I rarely use it now, I prefer the SDG saddle that came with my Mu SL. And while you can change the saddle on the Thudbuster, you can't remove the Thudbuster itself without getting a new seat post. Just like you'd need a new seat post with the Swift to add a Thudbuster ... Standard seatposts for the Dahon are not expensive nor hard to find.

Good luck with your purchase. I love the ability to change gears sitting still with the dual-drive on my Speed TR so I suspect you'll love that about the Nexus gearhub too. I think you'll be pleased with either the Swift or the MU.

I have a Swift with the Nexus hub. I absolutely love it. It is far and away my favorite folder I’ve owned or ever ridden. I personally would not choose the MU XL over the Swift even though I am Dahon owner too. There are a lot of good value built into the XL that makes it attractive. My concern with Dahon is next year it will be replaced by the MU XLt or something else and your current model with be virtually worthless overnight because of the BBD syndrome.

Another issue for me is the Nexus that comes on the XL is the normal non-red label version. If you go with the 8spd Nexus definitely get the red label variation of it. It is something like the 8R-25. There is a definite difference in performance between it and the plain vanilla 8R-20 version that comes on the MU XL. I have both hubs and the difference is noticeable. The red label is the higher efficiency version with better bearings and construction.

As for a Swift being heavy with the hub mine is pretty well loaded and it isn’t that heavy. I think the Swift’s fun to ride factor will flat smoke the MU XL. The XL is like a commuter whereas the Swift is whatever you want it to be. Mine easily transforms from sport bike to commuter to tourer quite easily. For me it never felt flexy like my Dahons did. Keep in mind I am not a small guy so your mileage may vary.

If you do decide to buy a Dahon, buy it from Thor if you can. He is a great guy and I personally respect him a lot. While I have my issues with Dahon too in general they make a bike that is a good value for the money. I think they are trying to be too many things to too many people and are losing focus in some area.

I like the idea of building the Swift to exactly what I wanted. Then I didn’t have to compromise on what I wanted. If an off the shelf Dahon is what will fit your needs then it could be an excellent deal. Still for me as much as I like the MU XL, after having both hubs, the low efficiency hub is a deal breaker for me. It truly is nosier, rougher and not as efficient compared to my red label one. Since in general internal hubs aren’t as efficient to begin with I didn’t want to give up anything in that area.

Thanks for the thoughtful responses-- when I take my test drives I'll keep a real eye out for both bikes responsiveness and weight. All things being equal the Mu is a better value, but if its shifter is balky or it feels sluggish, that value is negated.

I'll hopefully test the Swift next week at recycle-a-bicycle and pass along my impressions, especially when I can complete the comparison with the Mu.

Bacciagalupe, the Brompton is a good option, but since I'm not travelling inter-modally, it's amazing fold isn't a priority for me.

Thank you, these are good thoughts to chew on, hopefully people will keep 'em coming.

Sincerely,
Ari

So I've emailed Peter Reich asking how much a Swift with a Nexus 8 speed hub, mud guards, and big apples will cost. (I'm trying to craft a commuter bike for New York, with my only must haves being the 8 speed hub and mud guards.)

The only other bike I'm pondering is the Mu XL, which doesn't have the Swift's minimalist good looks, but is otherwise loaded with premium accessories. I don't need the dynamo, but the lights, rack, and to a lesser extent the thudbuster, are great accessories.

I'm being fairly deliberate, as Peter is very busy, and I haven't yet found a city bike shop with a Mu XL to test ride. Still, does anybody have any opinions, philosophical, technical or otherwise, on choosing between these two bikes?

Sincerely,
Ari

Is this an option, or a one off type of scenario? I've always been curious about the Nexus 8. Plus, I'm currently shopping/researching for my own first folder. Hmmmm.......

Is this an option, or a one off type of scenario? I've always been curious about the Nexus 8. Plus, I'm currently shopping/researching for my own first folder. Hmmmm.......

Peter Reich has a shop in Brooklyn where he'll customize to your specs. At a group folding ride a few months ago, I saw a very sharp looking Swift customized with a Rohloff hub, as well as a spiffy 1 speed, both built by Peter. Somebody else does the west coast work, so you might want to check out http://www.swiftfolder.com/

Peter seems like a nice guy, and also sells the powdercoated Swifts through Recycle-A-Bicycle, a very cool Brooklyn shop that trains young people in the trade. Unfortunately though, that shop won't customize.

Peter Reich has a shop in Brooklyn where he'll customize to your specs. At a group folding ride a few months ago, I saw a very sharp looking Swift customized with a Rohloff hub, as well as a spiffy 1 speed, both built by Peter. Somebody else does the west coast work, so you might want to check out http://www.swiftfolder.com/

Peter seems like a nice guy, and also sells the powdercoated Swifts through Recycle-A-Bicycle, a very cool Brooklyn shop that trains young people in the trade. Unfortunately though, that shop won't customize.

Thanks for the info!

I'll repeat it since it does deserve repeating. If you buy the Nexus 8spd, get the better one (aka red label, red band, high efficieny). It normally has a little red band circumferentially round the hub itself. It is about 10-15% more expensive. The stock Nexus 8 spd seems fine UNTIL you have a chance to ride the red band one. Some of the differences are its lighter and has better bearings. Shift action is still good on the normal one. The red band one is definitely quiter on my bikes that have it vs. the one that doesn't.

Thanks for the very good advice on the Red Band-- I'll do that.

Just to clarify-- the specs on Dahon's site (http://www.dahon.com/us/muxl-specs.htm) and some of the forum posts (http://www.dahon.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2300&hl=nexus) indicate that the hub on the Mu is the premium red band version. Of course, it's hard finding a shop in NYC that stocks the bike, so I can't tell for certain.

-Ari