Right..i get away from the road..on the shoulder...the grassy part...the sidewalk...
Or sometimes (after a look in my right mirror telling me it's just me and him on this lonely road ) I will stay on the nice pavement and observe the drivers brotherly love about moving his tearing hulking mass a few inches to the left. Sometimes the baby finger on the sterring wheel just can't make the effort and then i have to move.

Sorry you are in a busy spot. But if you're not in a crazy rush there are ways.



So, I live in NC, alot of places here are well... country... They have long, winding single lane country roads here. The shoulders are routinely 10 inches in width. There is no room to move over, if you did you would either wind up in the ditch on the side, or face first into someones mailbox. We don't have too many sidewalks here.

You say we should just slow down, maybe even stop. I'm not in a rush, but I would like to get to work sometime during the day. I think for all of us who use our bicycles to supplement or replace cars, we are able to do this because we can cover a good distance in a reasonable time. If I had all day all the time I would walk everywhere then.

Also your logic is basically since the car is bigger, I should get out of its way. Then should a car pull to the side of the road, and go to the opposite side of the road when a truck comes???

Plus like someone mentioned before me... riding the wrong way is just plain scary.

get...a.....mirror


Haven't you read the pros and cons on mirrors...do you really think a mirror makes you safe from drivers who don't see you or that make a mistake...mirrors suck and at night they really suck and in the rain at night they are useless and we all know almost all bikes don't have a fringen mirror.

There is a picture of what a bicycle looks like after an organization like OSHA gets ahold of it. Does anyone have a copy of it? I can only imagine that is what facethem's bike looks like.

A recumbent with Ford F-750 mirrors; constant, strobe, and flashing rear LED lights, 10 pounds of reflectors, giant reflector discs between the spokes, constant warning horn/beeper, four red flags mounted on 3-foot masts, and a sign facing forward stating "I am a cycling idiot, motorists beware."

-Kurt

Civil disobedience and cycling

Where I ride I don't usually see much in the way of traffic so I am very lucky. The unusual way I ride is very safe for me and for everyone else. I ride facing the traffic and simply get out of everyone's way. By everyone I mean cyclists, cars, trucks, motorcycles, joggers, skateboarders, rollerbladders, pedestrians and what ever is coming at me. I go unnoticed on the roads because no one has to brake or maneuver around me. Whenever traffic passes, I simply give them the widest possible berth. No one could hit me even if they tried. I ride very slow or walk in very dangerous situations. The big wide tires allow me to go almost anywhere. The big motorcycle mirror mounted on the right side (yes right) really enhances my way of seeing all.

This way of riding, facing the traffic, was not my idea but my fathers. He was a brilliant man when it came to safety. Our entire house was wired with fire detectors 57 years ago. All our boats were enhanced with floatation to prevent them sinking. He must have been the first to get those studded winter tires 50 years ago. He invented safety mirrors for cars that were slightly convex. His most significant accomplishment was redesigning the safety shoe for electrical workers to prevent electrocution. If you have a white tag on your safety shoe with an orange Greek "omega" symbol, that's his shoe. It only took 15 years to convince people it was a smart idea.

The traffic laws work fairly well for the masses and not too many cyclists are being killed or injured but I prefer feeling entirely safe. I will never rely on others to see me. I will always want to see them and I will continue my civil disobedience and cycling.

A friend recently told me she came within inches of killing a cyclist on a dark rainy night along a fast moving narrow road. The cyclist was obeying the law of riding with his back to the traffic and it nearly cost him his life.

Cycling facing the traffic is slowly been implemented in different parts of the world. See this link........... http://archive.thisisoxfordshire.co.uk/2001/2/14/69179.html
and this one... http://www.bikexprt.com/bikepol/facil/lanes/contraflow.htm




***** the day dawns, the light comes, the clouds move, the colors change, the clouds pass, the winds blow, the rains come, the water flows, a storm rages, the winds whip, the darkness falls, the sun sets, the stars blink, the planets shine, the moon sits, the sky lights and another dawn breaks
*****

You dont even deserve to own a bike. Your putting your self and me at risk and teaching others bad habbits by your actions.

Haven't you read the pros and cons on mirrors...do you really think a mirror makes you safe from drivers who don't see you or that make a mistake...mirrors suck and at night they really suck and in the rain at night they are useless and we all know almost all bikes don't have a fringen mirror.

You really do make a lot of assumptions. I find mirrors very useful and ride with one every time I ride. They don't make me safe from anything, but they give me warning. You like your warning staring you in the face, I'd prefer to get hit with a closing speed that requires subraction to calculate rather than one that requires addition. Anyway, I find it even easier to use a mirror at night, that glint of light lets me know that's it's time to take a better look without me having to scan regularly like I do during the day. Just like when driving.

Most bikes may not have a mirror, but then again most bikes are ridden on the sidewalk. You aren't going to convince anyone that your way is the right way. Maybe you live in some inverse universe where it works for you, but the rest of us will stick to what's safe for people in this universe.

You really do make a lot of assumptions. I find mirrors very useful and ride with one every time I ride. They don't make me safe from anything, but they give me warning. You like your warning staring you in the face, I'd prefer to get hit with a closing speed that requires subraction to calculate rather than one that requires addition. Anyway, I find it even easier to use a mirror at night, that glint of light lets me know that's it's time to take a better look without me having to scan regularly like I do during the day. Just like when driving.

Most bikes may not have a mirror, but then again most bikes are ridden on the sidewalk. You aren't going to convince anyone that your way is the right way. Maybe you live in some inverse universe where it works for you, but the rest of us will stick to what's safe for people in this universe.

I dont use a mirror my self i some how always manage to bust the damn things when i park my bike heh. I just look over or under my shoulder (find its easyer to look under) I cant recall the last time i had a car pass me that i didnt know about.

The few times ive missed seeing one (not hearing it or sencing it) they give a nice horn tap. I had one guy tap his horn when he saw me as i was lookign back shrug his shoulders and smile. You know the heh o well shrug.

I use a helmet mirror, tried one of those that mount on the top tube near the head tube but wasn't all that impressed. The field of view is pretty limited. In any case I don't rely on it, it's just an extra tool to supplement the skills that any cyclist should develop.

I digress though. This guy posts once in a while for the sole purpose of advocating riding on the wrong side of the road. He's not participated in any other kind of thread. I'm checking out of any further threads he starts.

So, I live in NC, alot of places here are well... country... They have long, winding single lane country roads here. The shoulders are routinely 10 inches in width. There is no room to move over, if you did you would either wind up in the ditch on the side, or face first into someones mailbox. We don't have too many sidewalks here..

I know some tiny narrow roads with nothing for a shoulder and it's a good question. If the road is not busy then when a car does come at me I'll switch to the right letting him pass then switch back to the left...kind of like riding facing the traffic but only when nothing's coming. Mirrors make that very easy. If the little road is busy then i don't know what I would do other than slowing down at each passing car that won't or can't move an inch and riding the sliver of the shoulder. Joggers seem to get away with running facing the traffic and some of them really move at a fast clip. I just know that I couldn't trust the judgement of every overtaking vehicle.




Plus like someone mentioned before me... riding the wrong way is just plain scary.

It takes getting use to...it took me years...but there is no greater feeling than being in complete control and on those lonely roads it just feels right. The mirror really really helps because then i can see if this guy approaching me is free to move a bit to the left. But if i see a car in my mirror plus the one coming towards me i always get out of everyone's way.

This guy posts once in a while for the sole purpose of advocating riding on the wrong side of the road. He's not participated in any other kind of thread. I'm checking out of any further threads he starts.

I would like to be more regular here but perhaps i should move to a more general kind of bike discussion group. Everyone here seem to be professional riders zooming around in busy cities and i can easily understand why my ideas appear ludicris.

I would like to be more regular here but perhaps i should move to a more general kind of bike discussion group. Everyone here seem to be professional riders zooming around in busy cities and i can easily understand why my ideas appear ludicris.


I find this post of yours intresting esp when comparing what you state here with what you stated there



In 1999, 39% of deaths on bicycles nationwide occurred between 6 p.m. and midnight.

If I ride at night or in the rain/fog/snow/etc I ride on the other side of the road. I can see what's coming towards me and move onto the shoulder to give a nice wide berth. I have a extra red safety lite on the front plus a headlite. The world is my oyster. For those who prefer riding with your back to the traffic this web site looks helpful. http://bicyclesafe.com/

I find the part in bold to be completly contradictory to what you have stated in this post. You are now and for ever branded what you truely are a foru troll IMO you should be forever banned.

i also like the part where you mention the extra red lighton the front. I like this because well red = tail light not headlight. This will tend to confuse drivers maybe even to the point of asumeing that your a car with a burned out tail light. They are much less likly to move over to pass you instead they will hold their own line untill its far to late and plow in to you and over you.

Haven't you read the pros and cons on mirrors...do you really think a mirror makes you safe from drivers who don't see you or that make a mistake...mirrors suck and at night they really suck and in the rain at night they are useless and we all know almost all bikes don't have a fringen mirror.

Actually, technically I have never seen a bike with a built on or built in mirror on the handle bars. Not to say there is not one, if there is I ask that someone please post a link to it. I do think there was a helmet with a built in mirror though. I don't know if it was a concept or was or still is in production. If someone knows can you post a link to it.

You're right about only 1 thing here, mirrors don't make you a safer cyclist. Only your skills do that.

A mirror is only a tool that can help you see what is behind you. They do work at night & even in the rain. I doubt you have ever used one, let alone at night or in the rain. Try using one before you make such statements. I have used them during both at night time & during rainy rides. Worked fine. Much the same way a motor vehicle mirrors work at night & in the rain. Next I suppose you're going to state mirrors on motor vehicles don't work at night or in the rain either right? Tell me, do you drive yet?

You are using the wrong skill by riding against traffic. For that I give you the Darwin Award, display it proudly on your wall for you will not be able to enjoy it long if you keep riding the way you do. Perhaps you should let your smart inventor dad know to bury you with it, if there is anything left to bury that is. Or make it a permenant part of your gravestone. Let us know your address so we can send you the award. Just don't die before you receive it.

Everyone here seem to be professional riders....

I wish, don't all of you?

Hey facethem, I dare you to go post this crap in the bicycling.com forums. More especially the Love Forum. Then again the type of group there would just love this kind of diatribe. Go for it, you'll be accepted with open & loving arms there, hence the name of the forum.

A recumbent with Ford F-750 mirrors; constant, strobe, and flashing rear LED lights, 10 pounds of reflectors, giant reflector discs between the spokes, constant warning horn/beeper, four red flags mounted on 3-foot masts, and a sign facing forward stating "I am a cycling idiot, motorists beware."

-Kurt

I don't think that is the one. Here is the OSHA Cowboy: http://www.sam-hane.com/sass/oshacowb.htm

The OSHA Bicycle is similar.

People have asked where you ride. All you state is in the country. What we mean is what state? What town or city? If you live in the country what is the closest town or city? Please give us an idea.

Also are you aware of your state & local community bicycle laws?

Everyone here seem to be professional riders....

I wish, don't all of you?

Well, maybe I am. If my employer pays for my travel time and mileage when I go to meetings and I ride my bike, does that count? :D

If we can take away anything from this video, is that only monkeys ride on the wrong side of the road. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1225980947023052205&q=bicycle

I know some tiny narrow roads with nothing for a shoulder and it's a good question. If the road is not busy then when a car does come at me I'll switch to the right letting him pass then switch back to the left...kind of like riding facing the traffic but only when nothing's coming. Mirrors make that very easy. If the little road is busy then i don't know what I would do other than slowing down at each passing car that won't or can't move an inch and riding the sliver of the shoulder. Joggers seem to get away with running facing the traffic and some of them really move at a fast clip. I just know that I couldn't trust the judgement of every overtaking vehicle.

It's tough to argue with you about your technique because it works in your particular situation when done exactly how you do it. You apparently have very little traffic, very wide shoulders, and few cyclists or obstructions on the roads that would require you to move towards the center of the road. I'm glad it works for you and that you haven't died (yet) but it wouldn't work for most riders. What does work for all riders is riding with the flow of traffic and that's why it's the law. From the description of your area, you should have zero problems toodling along the edge of the road with traffic. The time you spend watching traffic in front of you and/or stopping on the side of the road could be spent monitoring your mirror to make sure motorists have seen you and are giving a wide berth. If you are that concerned about them not giving a wide berth, then pull over and stop. You'll have more time for this manuever when going with the flow anyway.

I commute to work every day on roads that you assume don't exist. Narrow lanes with zero shoulder (not even grass, usually a deep ditch for drainage or a steep slant up) and heavy enough traffic that if I attempted to stop for every vehicle I'd move about 500 feet at a time. I go with the flow of traffic, centered in my lane and if traffic is too heavy for the following vehicles to pass then they wait until it clears. I watch my mirror with my peripheral vision (yes, I can look straight and behind me at the same time) and make sure people are doing what I want. It's very simple and quite efficient. I can make the 6.7 mile trip in 25-30 minutes whereas driving would take 20 (or 25 if I took the major roads with heavier traffic).

Well at least i never have to look backwards to judge how safe things are.

Nothing behind me is my problem. Tell me skippedgen, how far from a left angled curve in the road do you switch sides and ride properly to avoid surprising drivers and avoid becoming driftmeat? How long after the curve do you go back to your 1 man rebellion?

Haven't you read the pros and cons on mirrors...do you really think a mirror makes you safe from drivers who don't see you or that make a mistake...mirrors suck and at night they really suck and in the rain at night they are useless and we all know almost all bikes don't have a fringen mirror.

That would explain why cars have mirrors. *yawns*

Also, there is this move you use while driving a car that is also applicable to cycling. You take your head and move it to the left to look behind you.
Anyhow, I'm done feeding the troll. Time for something more amusing like picking my nose.

Ok, since you converse sometimes, let's try again.

Read carefully Effective cycling instructor's manual - John Forester, you'll have to google for the pdf file.
I've printed out the manual and there's an excellent section on preventing injuries. I don't know the source of forester's data, but here's his accident data:


rank % type

CORRECT
01 9.3% cyclists runs stop sign
02 7.6% motorist left turn into cyclist
05 5.9% cyclist hit as traffic signal changes
06 4.8% motorist right turn into cyclist
07 4.3% cyclist exits residental driveway
08 4.2% motorist restarts from stop
09 3.9% cyclist exits commercial driveway
14 2.2% No stop signs/lights intersection collision
15 2.1% motorist exits commercial driveway
16 2.1% cyclist runs red light
19 1.9% motorist doesn't see cyclist from rear
22 1.4% motorist follow too closely
25 1.3% miscellaneous
27 1.1% cyclist hits slower car

SIDEWALK
10 3.0% cyclist on sidewalk turns to exit driveway
13 2.4% motorist exiting commerical driveway hits cyclist on s]idewalk
26 1.2% motorist turns left and hits cyclist riding opposite direction on sidewalk

WRONG SIDE
03 6.8% motorist restarting from stop hits wrong way cyclist
11 2.6% wrong way cyclist runs stop
12 2.6% wrong way cyclist hit head on
18 1.9% motorist exiting residental driveway hits wrong way cyclist
20 1.5% Motorist exiting commercial driveway hits wrong way cyclist
21 1.5% motorist right turns into wrong way cyclist


SWERVE
04 6.1% cyclist turns left in front of car
17 2.1% cyclist left turns from curb lane into opposing car
23 1.3% cyclist swerves left into traffic
24 1.3% wrong way cyclist swerves right

SHORT SUMMARY
Hit from behind, accident rank #22 is only 1.4% of accidents. Wrong way cyclists accidents are all higher frequency and commulatively add up to 16.9% Thus you are INCREASING your risk of accident by 11x with wrong way riding.

Be scientific and not emotional, look at the accident data and tell us the problems you are having. Wrong way riding is only one solution, a 11x higher risk solution, someone here should have a safer option for you.


I doubt if there are any professional riders on the forum, we're just people who have struggled with many of the issues you have. It would really help knowing what city/county you live in as there are different expectations and behavior patterns of motorist in different locales.

About mirrors. They do work, but they don't replace turning around before changing lanes nor listening for traffic sounds. My best solution, is a wide angle mirror on the handlebars so no one catches me by surprise, or is in a dead spot and a helmet/glass mirror so I can see exactly how far away the motorist is.

Read carefully Effective cycling instructor's manual - John Forester, you'll have to google for the pdf file.
I've printed out the manual and there's an excellent section on preventing injuries. I don't know the source of forester's data, but here's his accident data:

Here is a hint on the source and its validity: Cherry picked and fabricated data manipulated and juggled into a predetermined construct to promote a propriatary training program. Be assured NOBODY else has ever made these claims with any sort of reasonable analysis or come up with Forester's results over any significant or representative population of cyclists.

Let's put it this way: Your (FaceThem's) riding preference is of one form, the majority of ours is of another.

We all know each other's opinion on the subject, and we all also know that not one of us will budge from those opinions.

If you want to ride against the traffic, go right ahead. Just don't begin telling us how to ride. It's our choice - it is the legal way, for that matter - and we aren't going to change the way we ride any more then you will.

Each party thinks they're form of riding puts the rider in danger - time will tell.

Until then, you've had your say, and we've had ours. Now shoo!

-Kurt

Here is a hint on the source and its validity: Cherry picked and fabricated data manipulated and juggled into a predetermined construct to promote a propriatary training program. Be assured NOBODY else has ever made these claims with any sort of reasonable analysis or come up with Forester's results over any significant or representative population of cyclists.


I was dubious. turns out his data is from 1977. Give us a break. Furthermore his data is a synethsis of 4 studies.

Highest probability of good data comes from:
http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/ped_bike/docs
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov

This overview says it all: http://www.tfhrc.gov/safety/pedbike/pedbike.htm
National Highway Transportation Safety Administration (NHTSA) Safety Facts

NHTSA 2003 Pedestrian Safety Facts include:

* 4,749 pedestrians were killed in traffic crashes
* 70,000 pedestrians were injured in traffic crashes
* On average, a pedestrian is killed almost every 2 hours and injured every 8 minutes

NHTSA 2003 Pedalcyclist Safety Facts include:

* 622 pedalcyclists were killed in traffic crashes
* 46,000 pedalcyclists were injured in traffic crashes
* 23 percent of all pedalcyclists killed were under age 16


With only 479 adult deaths a year from biking, it's just too low incident rate to get attention. 10 a state/year. won't make headline news.

I loved TI's comment: shooooooooo

I loved TI's comment: shooooooooo
I think face "the troll" them shooed after my last post where i posted what he posted in a previous post about the subject in this post. He basicaly said in that post that he only does it under very specific conditions. That posts content contradicts these lastests posts of his almost completly.

(damn that was a lot of posts in one post .... and not m clicking preview post hehe and do all those posts in this post raise my post count sorry couldnt help my self :) )

I would like to be more regular here but perhaps i should move to a more general kind of bike discussion group. Everyone here seem to be professional riders zooming around in busy cities and i can easily understand why my ideas appear ludicris.

I ride a bike and drive a car in both urban and rural environments. Nothing freaks me out more than a cyclist riding on the wrong side of the road (i.e. on the left). The rate of closure is much higher and frankly I view it as a situation where I am dealing with an inexperienced (and hence, unpredictable) cyclist. I have ridden my bike for thousands of kilometres all over southern Ontario (on the right and mostly rural) and have encountered no problems save for the odd driver attempting to pass into my lane. The idea of running off into the gravel (assuming there is a shoulder rather than a really big ditch) every time I encounter a vehicle is not a lot of fun on 700c wheels at 30 km/h plus.

He basicaly said in that post that he only does it under very specific conditions. That posts content contradicts these lastests posts of his almost completly.

No..i brought up the topic of riding at night because i wondered what most cyclists do in extremely dangerous situations and the answers came back that they basically do nothing different...shine up the rear reflector and hope for the best.

Let it go people, if this guy's not a troll, at least he'll be out of the genepool soon.

I ride a bike and drive a car in both urban and rural environments. Nothing freaks me out more than a cyclist riding on the wrong side of the road (i.e. on the left). The rate of closure is much higher and frankly I view it as a situation where I am dealing with an inexperienced (and hence, unpredictable) cyclist. I have ridden my bike for thousands of kilometres all over southern Ontario (on the right and mostly rural) and have encountered no problems save for the odd driver attempting to pass into my lane. The idea of running off into the gravel (assuming there is a shoulder rather than a really big ditch) every time I encounter a vehicle is not a lot of fun on 700c wheels at 30 km/h plus.

Where are all these wrong way cyclists everyone gets freaked about...i never see any unless it's a kid on a country road and you can assume his parents have told him to ride that way when going to johnny's house. It seems strange to me that it's a huge imposition to negotiate past the odd wrong way cyclist and yet you feel fine having thousands of vehicles wizz past with only inches to spare.

I live and ride in southern ontario as well and i ride all winter.

I congratulate FT for what few others have been able to do: Develop near 100% consensus on this forum.

Al

I congratulate FT for what few others have been able to do: Develop near 100% consensus on this forum.

Al
:) Astute observation. Nobody mention helmets for awhile, OK?

or bike lanes... wait... ;)

or vehicular cycling... wait... ;)

Where are all these wrong way cyclists everyone gets freaked about...i never see any unless it's a kid on a country road and you can assume his parents have told him to ride that way when going to johnny's house. It seems strange to me that it's a huge imposition to negotiate past the odd wrong way cyclist and yet you feel fine having thousands of vehicles wizz past with only inches to spare.

I live and ride in southern ontario as well and i ride all winter.

Are you an adult, teenager, college kid? Do you drive a car yet?

I think the best thing that could happen to this kid if he rides at all is to get clipped and put in to a ditch. Not talking fatal hit here just a good clipping maybe some mashed fingures and a trashed bike will show him just how dangerous wrong way cycling is.

To the op im not saying your dad is a total idiot but when it comes to cycling he sure has a idiotic notion of what is safe and whats not.

I some times go from the gas station to the little local grocery right next door and hate to ride facing trafic so much ill ither cross the street or stradle walk my bike through the grass to get there.

I suppose on nearly deserted country roads it would be safe if trafic is extreamly light and slow moving.

Has you dad's safety products made their way south to the U.S. yet? Like the electricians shoes or the convex mirrors? What side are the mirrors used on in Canada? Here in the U.S. they are only on the right, or passenger side. I'm not sure if they are convexed or concaved, to be honest I don't know the differance. On the left or drivers side a regular mirror is used on motor vehicles so you can tell the real distance of vehicles behind you.

How long ago did your day invent this new fangled mirror? Here in the U.S. I think we have been using them for a long time now.

Have you posted this diatribe on the Bicycling Love Forum yet?

Are you an adult, teenager, college kid? Do you drive a car yet?

I am an adult...driving 35yrs...riding even longer.
My friend has been driving a large truck for 20 yrs and he has had some crazy dangerous encounters with cyclists.

Here is what a few people say about dump trucks....

Maggi, you don't ride where there are dump trucks and it's obvious. The vast majority of these clowns will run you off the road or hook you on a turn and they simply don't give a *&^% because the quicker they can turn each load around the more money in their pocket and you simply have no right to get in their way or slow them down in any manner. They are by far the worst truck drivers you will encounter as a group. Logging truck drivers in northern areas doing short hauls can be almost as bad.

Almost all fatalities involving vehicles and cyclist are dump trucks. They are the lowest of the low when it comes to driving for a living. Absolutely no regard for the safety of cyclist, they are brain-dead rednecks who don't have the ability to understand that what they are driving are weapons and that is it okay to be aggresive with cyclist. They have to be stopped.


.........and this report from the Chief Coroner's office of Ontario

Thus, it appears that a cyclist's collision with a large vehicle is approximately four times more likely to result in cyclist fatality than a cyclist's collision with a Class G vehicle (car or light truck)
http://www.toronto.ca/cycling/coroner_summary.htm

Alright Ft explain something to me then other then I am lucky so far.

Everyday I rie home from work I have to rode on roadways that parrallel a very busy interstate & intersect with on if it's interchanges where traffic exit's & enters the interstate. The interstate is I-29. The roadway I ride on the parrallels is called Harbour Dr. On this roadway are industrial & commercial businesses who very often have very large 18 wheel semi-trucks driving up & down it delivering or picking up loads, plus there is the regular motor vehicle traffic driven by people who work at these businesses. My office alone employees over 300 people. Harbour Dr. is narrow with out a paved or any kid of shoulder to speak of. i ride with the flow of traffic. Partly because it is the law & partly because it is SAFER, that's right I said SAFER for me to do so.

Other then saying I am lucky explain why this is. Why have I not been hit by one of these large semi's yet? I know why I just want to hear your explaination.

My reasoning is because I am a skilled, safe, defensive cyclist. I know how to handle & ride my bike.

Oh & guess what I ride in traffic. A mythologically hard to see recumbent. (It is a total myth that they are harder to see then a wedgie bike.)

Do you know how to prevent the right hook as you described in a recent response? You position yourself in the lane, not to the right of it but toward the middle. Of course you can only do this if you're riding with the flow of traffic like you should be.

My commute home takes me along one of the busiest commercial truck routes in my city. Does it phase me? No. Does it scare me? Not in the slightest. Do I feel safe doing this? Absolutley. Will I change my behavior? Nope.

So what is your explaination of why I'm still around & have not been hit on this roadway?

Be scientific and not emotional, look at the accident data and tell us the problems you are having. Wrong way riding is only one solution, a 11x higher risk solution, someone here should have a safer option for you.

It's my guess that most wrong way cycling accidents were not fatal. The main thing to keep in mind about wrong way cyclists is that when they crash into things they only have themselves to blame. Because of there own lack of experince or stupidity, they screwed up.

For all other cyclists, they get hit and crash not because they made a mistake...but because someone else made a mistake. That is the bottom line...trust your own skill and judgement...or trust the skill and judgement of every dork that wizzes past you.

.

I ride facing the traffic, blah blah, I have the reflexes of The Flash, etc.

http://www.mechbgon.com/troll.jpg

Where are all these wrong way cyclists everyone gets freaked about...i never see any unless it's a kid on a country road and you can assume his parents have told him to ride that way when going to johnny's house. It seems strange to me that it's a huge imposition to negotiate past the odd wrong way cyclist and yet you feel fine having thousands of vehicles wizz past with only inches to spare.

I live and ride in southern ontario as well and i ride all winter.

I almost ran into one in Williamsburg, VA one night. Right on Rt. 60, main route through town, dude on the wrong side of the road and I only caught sight of him under a street light. Wrong side of a 4 lane road, fair amount of traffic, no lights. I'm riding a 10 watt headlight and still he came. I pulled over into a parking lot.

No..i brought up the topic of riding at night because i wondered what most cyclists do in extremely dangerous situations and the answers came back that they basically do nothing different...shine up the rear reflector and hope for the best."Shine up the rear reflector?" :roflmao:

http://www.mechbgon.com/lolno.jpg

(hint: with my rear visibility solution, no "hoping" is necessary ;))

I ride with the flow of traffic. Partly because it is the law & partly because it is SAFER, that's right I said SAFER for me to do so.

I am sorry there is not much you can do. You have to go with the flow in this situation and many many other routes people are forced to take. But it is not 'safer' for you personally to have your back to the traffic...it's just safer overall for moving you and the rest of the masses along.



My reasoning is because I am a skilled, safe, defensive cyclist. I know how to handle & ride my bike.

I don't really see any cyclist participating in helping traffic move along. They are on the edge of the road and that is where they stay. I never see any cyclist move over when two trucks converge or on a hill where a careful driver won't risk passing. They just stay on the edge of the road and ride.



So what is your explaination of why I'm still around & have not been hit on this roadway?

Perhaps you are very noticeable and always stand out with bright clothing etc but i think you have had the good luck of skillfull drivers manovering past you. Everyone has seen you...Nobody has made a mistake..no drunks..no idiots..no dorks..no sleepers..no stoners..no old people on meds..no blinding sun or rain or snow or cell calls or road rage or racing............you have done all you can by riding along the edge but it is thanks to everyone else that you have not had a close shave.

Sorry your ride is such a grind.

Time to drop the Logic Bomb on our troll :)

Fact: riding with the flow of traffic subtracts your speed from theirs, and gives both you & them more reaction time. Right? Right. :)

Blatantly obvious: more reaction time + lower closing speeds are safer than shorter reaction times + higher closing speeds. Right? Right. :)

Therefore it is safer to ride with the flow of traffic because you (and them) get the lower closing speeds and increased reaction time.

:cry: ~ waaah, but if I have my back to the traffic, I can't see behind me!

Yes you can, silly :) You just told us about your excellent motorcycle mirror, didn't you? :) All rightie then, use it. Combine the safety of lower closing speeds + longer reaction times with the ability to see the traffic, by using your mirror. I also recommend a helmet mirror, for a much larger field of view that is also steerable to see precisely where you want to see, and isolated from vibration.

Bottom line: A situation that you claim is safer because you can see the potential danger, will be far safer yet if you are also subtracting your speed from theirs, and giving you & them more reaction time, not to mention riding in the lawful conventional fashion that people are expecting.

Right? Right. :) So knock off the trolling. If you insist on being dumb, it appears I can request on everyone's behalf that you keep it to yourself. This isn't MySpace.

Also, if your rear visibility solution really does consist of just a reflector, then you should upgrade. Pick up a Cateye LD-1000 and use it day and night. Aim it carefully so the hotspot is blasting down the fog line behind you. Take satisfaction in seeing road signs flickering red for 1km behind you at night. :) I would also recommend high-visibility outer clothing, and that doesn't have to be something expensive... a white XL t-shirt is a fine start.

Here you go using logic and stuff. :rolleyes:

Time to drop the Logic Bomb on our troll :)

Fact: riding with the flow of traffic subtracts your speed from theirs, and gives both you & them more reaction time. Right? Right. :)

Blatantly obvious: more reaction time + lower closing speeds are safer than shorter reaction times + higher closing speeds. Right? Right. :)

Therefore it is safer to ride with the flow of traffic because you (and them) get the lower closing speeds and increased reaction time.

:cry: ~ waaah, but if I have my back to the traffic, I can't see behind me!

Yes you can, silly :) You just told us about your excellent motorcycle mirror, didn't you? :) All rightie then, use it. Combine the safety of lower closing speeds + longer reaction times with the ability to see the traffic, by using your mirror. I also recommend a helmet mirror, for a much larger field of view that is also steerable to see precisely where you want to see, and isolated from vibration.

Bottom line: A situation that you claim is safer because you can see the potential danger, will be far safer yet if you are also subtracting your speed from theirs, and giving you & them more reaction time, not to mention riding in the lawful conventional fashion that people are expecting.

Right? Right. :) So knock off the trolling. If you insist on being dumb, it appears I can request on everyone's behalf that you keep it to yourself. This isn't MySpace.

Also, if your rear visibility solution really does consist of just a reflector, then pick up a Cateye LD-1000 and use it day and night. Aim it carefully so the hotspot is blasting down the fog line behind you. Take satisfaction in seeing road signs flickering red for 1km behind you at night. :) I would also recommend high-visibility outer clothing, and that doesn't have to be something expensive... a white XL t-shirt is a fine start.

This thread ushers in a new era of peace in the A&S community, (even Stanley.)
D'accord! :beer:

Here you go using logic and stuff. :rolleyes:Guilty as charged. But I did balance it out with two posts that had funny pictures :beer:

Lol the OP is such a genius, hilarious.

What's all this talk about riding down the edge of the road? Except for very rare circumstances, I am never riding the edge of the road. I am dead centered in the lane going with the flow of traffic, just like the law says I should be (riding in a non-shareable lane like every road around me has). In this position, it is virtually impossible to not see me, especially when compared to riding along the edge of the road.

FaceThem, if all of your thoughts on how to cycle are based on observing other cyclists in your area riding improperly and unsafely, maybe you should look further than that. Have you ever read any other threads in A&S besides those that you've started yourself?