Where I ride I don't usually see much in the way of traffic so I am very lucky. The unusual way I ride is very safe for me and for everyone else. I ride facing the traffic and simply get out of everyone's way. By everyone I mean cyclists, cars, trucks, motorcycles, joggers, skateboarders, rollerbladders, pedestrians and what ever is coming at me. I go unnoticed on the roads because no one has to brake or maneuver around me. Whenever traffic passes, I simply give them the widest possible berth. No one could hit me even if they tried. I ride very slow or walk in very dangerous situations. The big wide tires allow me to go almost anywhere. The big motorcycle mirror mounted on the right side (yes right) really enhances my way of seeing all.
This way of riding, facing the traffic, was not my idea but my fathers. He was a brilliant man when it came to safety. Our entire house was wired with fire detectors 57 years ago. All our boats were enhanced with floatation to prevent them sinking. He must have been the first to get those studded winter tires 50 years ago. He invented safety mirrors for cars that were slightly convex. His most significant accomplishment was redesigning the safety shoe for electrical workers to prevent electrocution. If you have a white tag on your safety shoe with an orange Greek "omega" symbol, that's his shoe. It only took 15 years to convince people it was a smart idea.
The traffic laws work fairly well for the masses and not too many cyclists are being killed or injured but I prefer feeling entirely safe. I will never rely on others to see me. I will always want to see them and I will continue my civil disobedience and cycling.
A friend recently told me she came within inches of killing a cyclist on a dark rainy night along a fast moving narrow road. The cyclist was obeying the law of riding with his back to the traffic and it nearly cost him his life.
Cycling facing the traffic is slowly been implemented in different parts of the world. See this link........... http://archive.thisisoxfordshire.co.uk/2001/2/14/69179.html
and this one... http://www.bikexprt.com/bikepol/facil/lanes/contraflow.htm
***** the day dawns, the light comes, the clouds move, the colors change, the clouds pass, the winds blow, the rains come, the water flows, a storm rages, the winds whip, the darkness falls, the sun sets, the stars blink, the planets shine, the moon sits, the sky lights and another dawn breaks
*****
Roody
06-22-06, 12:16 PM
It seems like we just had this discussion. Can you sing any other tunes?
DataJunkie
06-22-06, 12:20 PM
One sounds like a broken record.... especially with a forum name such as that.
I would sooner ride without pants than facing traffic.
kf5nd
06-22-06, 01:05 PM
What difference does it make, as long as your eyes are looking back? (consistent use of a mirror) Your vertebra don't have eyes embedded in them !!! I see everyone coming up from behind me using my mirror.
Your friend would've had LESS reaction time if the cyclist had been coming at her. Those "inches to spare" would have become an impact!!!
God, why are you so stupid!?
A friend recently told me she came within inches of killing a cyclist on a dark rainy night along a fast moving narrow road. The cyclist was obeying the law of riding with his back to the traffic and it nearly cost him his life.
recursive
06-22-06, 01:23 PM
Yes. Let's do this again.
Come on. You know this couldn't possibly work for most people. Why do you keep bringing this here? (And how'd you get the account registered in 2005?)
pityr
06-22-06, 01:23 PM
Riding against traffic scares this **** out of me. I've only ever done it once.
There are real reasons that it is illegal...
Dusk
06-22-06, 01:30 PM
http://cc.usu.edu/~bob/bike/where_to_ride.html
Where to Ride your Bike?
Where on the roadway should you ride your bike? Lots of people first guess "on the left, facing traffic" for a variety of reasons. But that first choice is wrong, for a variety of reasons:
According to the League of American Bicyclists' Bike Ed training program, riding on the left side is the leading single cause of car/bike collisions.
Riding with traffic puts you where other travelers are looking for conflicting traffic, instead of putting you where they aren't looking, especially at intersections, driveways and crosswalks.
The closing speed of traffic in your lane is the sum of both speeds if you are facing traffic, but is the difference of speeds if you are with traffic. That difference in closing speed may mean a big difference in reaction time for you and the motorist.
When a wrong way cyclist meets a right way cyclist, who swerves out into traffic or into the gutter? I hope you don't expect me to!
Less than 3% of car/bike collisions in daylight are due to overtaking errors (rear end collisions).
State Law requires bicyclists to ride on the right, not on the left. When a collision results from wrong way riding, you may be found at fault.
noisebeam
06-22-06, 01:46 PM
This is great, so far the best alternative to VC I've seen yet. Can't the anti-VC crowd do better?
Al
Keith99
06-22-06, 01:54 PM
I ride facing the traffic and simply get out of everyone's way. By everyone I mean cyclists, cars, trucks, motorcycles, joggers, skateboarders, rollerbladders, pedestrians and what ever is coming at me.
Just where do you ride Or is it when. Surely never any bike path after 6 am. Not any set of streets I can think of that go anywhere unless you can somehow fly as any decent length ride goes through some section where there is nowhere to go except into traffic.
Also even if you do get out of the way you still put others in danger. Any cyclist who is riding legally who sees you coming sees someone whose actions he has no way of of predicting and is thus endangered.
noisebeam
06-22-06, 01:58 PM
Then again, perhaps this idea has merit if you petition those bus, taxi, truck, motorcycle, etc. drivers that are also endangering themselves by following the law to also practice CD and ride on the other side. Once you reach a threshold of support, the path to your success will accerate I imagine. I mean, who would want to be the last 10% or 1% of folks still driving the right way as that would be really stupid and dangerous.
Al
DataJunkie
06-22-06, 02:06 PM
At least those of us running HID lights could blind the drivers coming at us thus killing said cyclist and motorist even quicker.
ctyler
06-22-06, 02:06 PM
Come on. Riding against traffic is DANGEROUS! Whenever I see someone doing I yell at them "It's a good day to die." How stupid do you have to be to believe that riding against traffic is safe?
San Rensho
06-22-06, 02:39 PM
Someone else on the board uses the phrase "you are riding on Darwin street" You are about to be culled from the herd.
unkchunk
06-22-06, 05:40 PM
Sorry FaceThem, but you already trolled this last week.
alanbikehouston
06-22-06, 05:46 PM
A 8th grader using Mom's computer to rile folks up. AND, we fall for it everytime. This thread will get fifty posts, for sure.
Bikepacker67
06-22-06, 08:56 PM
The next wrongway cyclist I see, I'm going to beat unconscious with my frame pump, and then dump a bottle full of pisswarm gatorade on them to draw the ants.
N_C
06-22-06, 09:59 PM
Thank you pops for the safety shoes. Smack him in the head for giving you the idea & allowing you to ride the wrong way in traffic. How freaking old are you anyway?
The used to teach that type of riding style in boyscouts. I do believe they stopped doing that.
There is a picture of what a bicycle looks like after an organization like OSHA gets ahold of it. Does anyone have a copy of it? I can only imagine that is what facethem's bike looks like.
UmneyDurak
06-22-06, 10:09 PM
Hey if going 2 miles an hour and stopping every minute works for you, great. I preffer going 20mph, and not stop unless I have to.
webist
06-22-06, 10:30 PM
It's not always the motor vehicle operator's fault. I guess we won't have to wonder where the OP went when we no longer see his posts.
N_C
06-22-06, 11:45 PM
I say we pm him, flooding him with links to & statistics about why cyclists should ride with the flow of traffic instead of against. Start with city, county & state laws & ordinances then the safety reasons why from as many differant organizations as possible. After that, if it is available the statistics on people killed because they made the mistake of riding against traffic, include with this if possible pictures of cyclists that were hit for making the mistake.
recursive
06-22-06, 11:50 PM
I say we pm him, flooding him with links to & statistics about why cyclists should ride with the flow of traffic instead of against. Start with city, county & state laws & ordinances then the safety reasons why from as many differant organizations as possible. After that, if it is available the statistics on people killed because they made the mistake of riding against traffic, include with this if possible pictures of cyclists that were hit for making the mistake.
No thanks. If he's a troll, you're only wasting time. If he really believes that, a flood of spam won't convince him. Do what you want, but it sounds like you'd be playing directly into his trollish plot.
Da Tinker
06-23-06, 05:32 AM
Civil disobedience and cycling
A friend recently told me she came within inches of killing a cyclist on a dark rainy night along a fast moving narrow road. The cyclist was obeying the law of riding with his back to the traffic and it nearly cost him his life.
Obeying the law? Doesn't sound like it. Did the cyclist have the required reflectors or lights? Was your friend driving at a safe & proper speed for conditions (not necessarily the speed limit)?
Check out the fed's accident stats, so no one will accuse anyone of 'cherry-picking' data. Your way of riding has been shown to be about 2.5 times more dangerous than the legal methods most of us advocate and use.
Please post your funeral plans & perhaps we will send flowers.
HiYoSilver
06-23-06, 05:57 AM
what's next? nude riding is safer than clothed riding? Helmetless riding is safer than wearing a helmet? Lightless night riding is safer because your eyes have full night vision?
Give us a break. You don't discuss, all you do is try to see how many responses you can get. It's time to either drop this subject, or move to different bike forum.
ajay677
06-23-06, 08:03 AM
http://cc.usu.edu/~bob/bike/where_to_ride.html
The closing speed of traffic in your lane is the sum of both speeds if you are facing traffic, but is the difference of speeds if you are with traffic. That difference in closing speed may mean a big difference in reaction time for you and the motorist.
He's an ignorant troll. He can't do math, but his daddy was a brilliant inventor.
aadhils
06-23-06, 08:48 AM
Great job on feeding the troll guys...
LittleBigMan
06-23-06, 09:11 AM
Cycling facing the traffic is slowly been implemented in different parts of the world. See this link........... http://archive.thisisoxfordshire.co.uk/2001/2/14/69179.html
and this one... http://www.bikexprt.com/bikepol/facil/lanes/contraflow.htm
FaceThem, apparently you have not studied these concepts thoroughly. These two links you have provided deal with specific situations on one-way streets. The designs mentioned are not your idea of going against traffic. They are two-way bike "streets" adjacent to one-way streets, designed so that cyclists can still ride without going against motor traffic. They are called, "contraflow," and have nothing to do with wrong-way cycling, which you are endorsing.
Please go back and read more from John S. Allen's website that you referenced. There is much wisdom there which shows why Mr. Allen and most other people are against wrong-way cycling. Here are some things to think about:
1) If you, riding against traffic, see another cyclist riding properly with traffic coming at you, you endanger his/her life, as well as your own. Cyclists have been killed running head-on into wrong-way cyclists like you.
2) You assume you will always be able to "ditch" if a car doesn't see you in time. But if there is not a safe place to avoid a collision, not only will the car driver have to come to a complete stop, but you must also to avoid a collision. A driver approaching you from behind only has to slow down to avoid hitting you.
3) An oncoming motorist has a greatly shortened reaction time to avoid wrong-way cyclists like you. What if the driver is talking on the cell-phone? You might be dead before he even notices you.
4) The impact of head-on collisions are greatly magnified over rear-end collisions. A motorist hitting you head on at 35 mph. when you are travelling 15 mph. will produce an impact equal to a motorist hitting you at 50 mph. But that same motorist hitting you from behind at those speeds will produce an impact of only 20 mph., perhaps saving your life.
5) Modern freeways have a built-in safety feature that is lacking in two-direction traffic roads: all traffic is going the same direction. Roads that have two-direction traffic have long been recognized as having a much higher accident and mortality rate than freeways because of the head-on nature of the traffic flow which makes passing so hazardous. This same priniciple makes wrong-way cycling more dangerous.
6) I respect you Dad's ingenuity, but have you considered that he might not be right on everything? Just because someone is smart, that doesn't mean he's never wrong.
KrisPistofferson
06-23-06, 09:20 AM
Great job on feeding the troll guys...
Yeah, but I missed the thread last week. One thing: If you ride facing traffic and get off the road when you encounter cars, how are you supposed to get anywhere? It would take you 2 months to get home in a city of any size like Chicago, LA or New York. This is an amazing troll, though.
Keith99
06-23-06, 09:50 AM
4) The impact of head-on collisions are greatly magnified over rear-end collisions. A motorist hitting you head on at 35 mph. when you are travelling 15 mph. will produce an impact equal to a motorist hitting you at 50 mph. But that same motorist hitting you from behind at those speeds will produce an impact of only 20 mph., perhaps saving your life.
OK First off the OP is a troll. A hit and run troll at that. So I won't address the troll, just talk with others on the thread.
My only multivehicle accident while cycling was being hit from behind. Driver was looking for an address. If I were going wrong way five things might have happened. I could have dodged cleanly, managed to not hit anything yet gone down, hit a stationary object, dodged into traffic and head on or no where to go and head on with the original car.
Let's say I was going 17, which is a good estimate. I was hit at about 17 1/2. Kissed my rear wheel which gave its life. I had a rear wheel to replace (which the driver who was likely uninsured still paid for) and a very mild skinned knee (as in missing the ride hurt more). Even hitting a parked car would have been a 17 mph collision. No facing traffic is worse even in the one case the OP thinks it help with. (Let alone dealing with intersections).
scarry
06-23-06, 09:56 AM
Seek help, moron.
jimmuter
06-23-06, 10:06 AM
Several years ago my mom hit a wrong-way cyclist (or actually he hit her). She was pulling out of a parking lot and turning right, so naturally looking left for traffic. As she pulled out of the parking lot driveway cutout, this guy plowed into her car from the right (he was riding on the sidewalk) and went flying. Luckily he wasn't badly hurt.
noisebeam
06-23-06, 10:08 AM
She was pulling out of a parking lot and turning right, so naturally looking left for traffic.
She must have looked right at some point. Maybe the cyclist was going quite fast.
Al
recursive
06-23-06, 10:10 AM
Several years ago my mom hit a wrong-way cyclist (or actually he hit her). She was pulling out of a parking lot and turning right, so naturally looking left for traffic. As she pulled out of the parking lot driveway cutout, this guy plowed into her car from the right (he was riding on the sidewalk) and went flying. Luckily he wasn't badly hurt.
Wrong way cyclist on the sidewalk? Was it a one way sidewalk? We don't have those here.
flipped4bikes
06-23-06, 10:12 AM
Seems that Darwinism will win out here...
chemcycle
06-25-06, 03:35 PM
This way of riding, facing the traffic, was not my idea but my fathers. He was a brilliant man when it came to safety.
Your description says otherwise......
SamHouston
06-25-06, 03:52 PM
Probably a troll, even if he does sound a bit slow and therefore took his fathers common misconception to heart, he would've figured it out by now? Perhaps not.
In any case, be sure you jump up on the sidewalk for all approaching cyclists OP, I wouldn't cause an accident, but I don't flinch and you'd need to do some fast yielding involving the curb and the ground if you failed to yield upon seeing me approach. You probably can't yield that way without hurting yourself, so play it safe and pull over & stop for all approaching cyclists.
I ride way too fast to be considered a jogger or walker, I'm a car that happens to use the part of the road you think it's okay to go backwards on.
N_C
06-25-06, 09:58 PM
Please post your funeral plans & perhaps we will send flowers.
Or we'll show up with full bladders. :D ;)
FaceThem
06-27-06, 11:06 AM
Contraflow....designed so that cyclists can still ride without going against motor traffic.
>>>>>>>I think contraflow is exactly what you say it isn't...it's riding against the traffic..in this case a one way street. All the photographs show cyclists riding against motor traffic.
1) If you, riding against traffic, see another cyclist riding properly with traffic coming at you, you endanger his/her life, as well as your own. Cyclists have been killed running head-on into wrong-way cyclists like you.
>>>>>I get out of oncoming cyclists path long before they wonder what i might do...i rarely meet other cyclists on the roads i ride
2) You assume you will always be able to "ditch" if a car doesn't see you in time. But if there is not a safe place to avoid a collision, not only will the car driver have to come to a complete stop, but you must also to avoid a collision. A driver approaching you from behind only has to slow down to avoid hitting you.
>>>If there is no safe place to provide a wide berth i simply stop and let him pass...but those situations are rare
3) An oncoming motorist has a greatly shortened reaction time to avoid wrong-way cyclists like you. What if the driver is talking on the cell-phone? You might be dead before he even notices you.
>>>I never rely on oncoming motorist to see me and avoid me...i see them and i avoid them. I move away from them. This is a hard concept to understand because most cyclists never really participate in the flow of traffic...they ride on the edge of the road and that's it
4) The impact of head-on collisions are greatly magnified over rear-end collisions. A motorist hitting you head on at 35 mph. when you are travelling 15 mph. will produce an impact equal to a motorist hitting you at 50 mph. But that same motorist hitting you from behind at those speeds will produce an impact of only 20 mph., perhaps saving your life.
>>>>This 'closing-speed' logic seems to make sense but for me it's a moot point. Yes if I'm going 10mph and a truck is going 50mph then impact would be 60mph...but I'm 8 or 10 feet away from the hurtling tons of steel plus and this is the most important thing...I'm looking straight it...Now your way...closing speed is 40mph but passing you at 8 or 10inches and coming at your back!!
>>>>Thanks for your response
FaceThem
06-27-06, 11:15 AM
In any case, be sure you jump up on the sidewalk for all approaching cyclists
>>>>i do move out of the path of cyclists...long before they wonder what i might do...but i ride in the country and rarely see cyclists.
FaceThem
06-27-06, 11:24 AM
My only multivehicle accident while cycling was being hit from behind. Driver was looking for an address.
>>>>I have never even come close to any kind of collision...you were hit because the driver didn't see you...drivers make mistakes.
FaceThem
06-27-06, 11:39 AM
Just where do you ride Or is it when. Surely never any bike path after 6 am. Not any set of streets I can think of that go anywhere unless you can somehow fly as any decent length ride goes through some section where there is nowhere to go except into traffic.
Also even if you do get out of the way you still put others in danger. Any cyclist who is riding legally who sees you coming sees someone whose actions he has no way of of predicting and is thus endangered.
I ride in the country and rarely meet other cyclists...if i'm on a bike path i go with the flow of course
FaceThem
06-27-06, 11:45 AM
I ride way too fast to be considered a jogger or walker, I'm a car that happens to use the part of the road you think it's okay to go backwards on.
Well at least i never have to look backwards to judge how safe things are.
FaceThem
06-27-06, 11:48 AM
It seems like we just had this discussion. Can you sing any other tunes?
You have any thoughts on 'contraflow' cycling?
DataJunkie
06-27-06, 12:14 PM
Well at least i never have to look backwards to judge how safe things are.
get...a.....mirror
Keith99
06-27-06, 12:24 PM
>>>>This 'closing-speed' logic seems to make sense but for me it's a moot point. Yes if I'm going 10mph and a truck is going 50mph then impact would be 60mph...but I'm 8 or 10 feet away from the hurtling tons of steel plus and this is the most important thing...I'm looking straight it...Now your way...closing speed is 40mph but passing you at 8 or 10inches and coming at your back!!
How are you 8-10 feet away riding the wrong way and riders riding with traffic are 8-10. Or do you mean you get away from the road every time a vehicle comes. If so that means where I (and almost everyone else on htis board) ride I would make less than a mile per hour. In fact on some roads I would never move at all.
kf5nd
06-27-06, 01:02 PM
Yeah, how come FaceThem gets 8 - 10 ft, and I get 8 - 10 inches?
I do see them, I use a fricking mirror!
I go 20 MPH, cars go 40 MPH, closing is only 20 MPH
FaceThem would be closing the gap at 60 MPH
Big huge difference between 20 and 60 !
But then FaceThem rides like a child, at 10 MPH. I bet he's lying, he probably goes 5.
This 'closing-speed' logic seems to make sense but for me it's a moot point. Yes if I'm going 10mph and a truck is going 50mph then impact would be 60mph...but I'm 8 or 10 feet away from the hurtling tons of steel plus and this is the most important thing...I'm looking straight it...Now your way...closing speed is 40mph but passing you at 8 or 10inches and coming at your back!!
I do see them, I use a fricking mirror!
I go 20 MPH, cars go 40 MPH, closing is only 20 MPH
Big huge difference between 20 and 60 !
Mirrors aren't very good...and most bike riders don't have them.The problem with mirrors is the fraction of a second it takes the eye to focus back and forth.
I agree about 20/60..but it's 20mph passing your body as close as 12" and you're telling me you're watching him in your mirror while you yourself are negotiating your path at 20mph.
For what is most likely everyone in this forum who require or enjoy very rapid transit in busy conditions your fate is mainly in someone else's hands and you have very little defence when one of them makes a mistake.
Roody
06-27-06, 06:20 PM
You have any thoughts on 'contraflow' cycling?
No. You've been warned by people who are smarter than you, so as long as you don't hit me while I'm riding the right way, I don't care what happens to you. But if you are coming at me on my side of the road, and a car is buzzing by us, I guarantee which one of us will end up on his butt in the roadway.
FaceThem
06-27-06, 06:22 PM
...do you mean you get away from the road every time a vehicle comes. If so that means where I (and almost everyone else on this board) ride I would make less than a mile per hour. In fact on some roads I would never move at all.
Right..i get away from the road..on the shoulder...the grassy part...the sidewalk...
Or sometimes (after a look in my right mirror telling me it's just me and him on this lonely road ) I will stay on the nice pavement and observe the drivers brotherly love about moving his tearing hulking mass a few inches to the left. Sometimes the baby finger on the sterring wheel just can't make the effort and then i have to move.
Sorry you are in a busy spot. But if you're not in a crazy rush there are ways.
FaceThem
06-27-06, 06:47 PM
No. You've been warned by people who are smarter than you, so as long as you don't hit me while I'm riding the right way, I don't care what happens to you. But if you are coming at me on my side of the road, and a car is buzzing by us, I guarantee which one of us will end up on his butt in the roadway.
I have never had a warning from a cyclist because i have moved elsewhere long before we approach. And why wouldn't you share the road as best you can anyway...must you always rocket through everywhere.