I may know what cracked Floyd. The day before, while he didn't go for the stage win, he went harder than anyone thought:

"Phonak's Landis clocked 38:34 for the final 14km of the stage (the climb up L'Alpe D'Huez) in finishing fourth overall."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that one of the fastest times ever for that climb in the tour? (Marco was 36:50?)
That's a good point. It did seem that even though it was fortuitous that he met up with Axel on l'Alpe yesterday - it seemed a bit early, Axel even looked surprised to see him.

I think he wanted yellow on that stage because of the precedence it has set in the past, but perhaps he should have saved himself for this stage instead. Now he's in a hole.

But yeah, hindsight being what it is... who freakin knows.

Again, these are the makings of a great tour. I wouldn't be surprised if a dark horse runs away with it all - hell, France and Spain hold 5 of the top 10 spots now.

I agree completely until he got dropped he was in perfect postion. Let everyone else work hard and just don't loose your positon and then lock it up in the TT. He didn't have it today and unless he is strong tomorrow and the rest collapse Landis will be shooting for a TT win and top 5 finish.

Add another to this line of thought. I doubt teammates would have gained him more than a few seconds today. He cracked while in the slipstream of other riders. He just didn't have it. It wouldn't surprise me if he comes back strong tomorrow. The problem is, when you want to gain huge chunks on those ahead of you, good teammates are very valuble. He may be in the position of having to try an early break by himself. If he does, I doubt the leaders will let him, even if he is 10 minutes down.

I expect tomorrow to be more interesting than today.

What if a frenchman won? *shudder*

That would be awesome....the French could use some cycling heroes again, it's been a good Tour for French riders.
Nobody does arrogant like the French, they rock.

...He may be in the position of having to try an early break by himself. ...

Just won't work. Landis simply has to make up time on the last climb tomorrow, although the last 10-12 km downhill would give his opponents chance to claw some time back.

Floyd didn't bonk, he didn't run out of fluids and he didn't miss his team. He simply isn't fast enough.

...and you know this? From hanging out with your other pro buddies? Or is this similar to your dismissal of Oscar Pereiro's chances in another thread based on reliable information?

Floyd didn't bonk, he didn't run out of fluids and he didn't miss his team. He simply isn't fast enough.

This is after Floyd essentially dominated the entire Tour de France field in the opening long TT (except for one rider who quickly faded in the high mtns) and won three big events - The Tour of California, Georgia and Paris-Nice against many of the same riders @ the TDF, all in the last 4 months. So what evidence this is based on is puzzling. Oh, right, Euro just pulled this out of his arse. There you go.

More like what happened to Floyd today and Levi in the TT is very typical in pro bike racing. That's called 'having a bad day'. In baseball you lose one game. In the Tour de France you go home in 8th place instead of the winner. A guy like Lance who was 'the boss' for 7 years? Right. Don't hold your breath. You see that once every, oh, 10-20 years or so when somebody like Indurain or Lance comes along. And NOBODY ever ran the show like Lance. That was 'boring'? It was magnificent. It was textbook. And you won't see it again soon.

Gee, all of a sudden Lance's accomplishment appears all the more amazing, eh? EPO or no. Besides, does anyone really know who's on EPO and who isn't? The UCI seems to be having a hard time figuring that one out. Regardless, don't all the Euro cycling 'experts' think they're 'all' on EPO? In which case you wonder why they bother following the sport?

Funny, when I said that giving up 29 minutes to Periero was a mistake the collective
wisdom was 1) Periero lost huge time on the first climb (pyrenees). 2) that Floyd was
gonna eat his lunch and he didn't have a snowballs chance in hell.

why do you guys all think just because Periero lost time on one climb that
he is gonna lose huge chunks on every climb?
10th last year? you seem to think that's as good as Lanterne Rouge, but look who
was ahead of him last year that isn't in the tour now. Funny take them out and
he is top 5.
Podium position looks pretty reasonable right about now.

Marty

Funny, when I said that giving up 29 minutes to Periero was a mistake the collective
wisdom was 1) Periero lost huge time on the first climb (pyrenees). 2) that Floyd was
gonna eat his lunch and he didn't have a snowballs chance in hell.

why do you guys all think just because Periero lost time on one climb that
he is gonna lose huge chunks on every climb?
10th last year? you seem to think that's as good as Lanterne Rouge, but look who
was ahead of him last year that isn't in the tour now. Funny take them out and
he is top 5.
Podium position looks pretty reasonable right about now.

Marty

True and I brought that up again in the other thread. When you finish in the top 10-15 riders in the biggest bike race, among elite athletes, you simply can't be dismissed, especially if you've already smelled yellow!

This stage really illustrates why this is a team sport.

In the case of Kloden, yes.
But the rest of them... no.

Why is there so much focus on Landis' team? Don't believe every word Phil and Paul say.
The guy cracked when in a large group. It made no difference whether he had teamates in the group or not. He was not chasing down anyone.
How much team help did Menchov get on the last climb? Or Sastre? Or Rasmussen?

Anyway, I was amazed he cracked that badly. I don't remember a crack like that late in the Tour for the leader since the 1980s. 1998 with Ullrich, he cracked bad but that was in terrible weather, against a superhuman Pantani. After yesturday I would have said "80% chance he will win the TDF". He seemed to be saving himself yesturday, for today... like he could have attacked but prefered to be conservative with Kloden pushing the pace.... so this is really :eek:
What a Tour though. Talk about "grinta" for Kloden.

...Oh, right, Euro just pulled this out of his arse. ...

You've got the spelling right, just so there is no miscommunication :D

Funny, when I said that giving up 29 minutes to Periero was a mistake the collective
wisdom was 1) Periero lost huge time on the first climb (pyrenees). 2) that Floyd was
gonna eat his lunch and he didn't have a snowballs chance in hell.


I still don't understand why everyone is fixated on Phonak losing the yellow to Pereiro last week.

Yeah, Oscar's in yellow, but so what if Phonak reeled him back in last week to save the jersey? Floyd cracked so hard today that it would be Sastre or Kloden in yellow anyway.

In that case we'd be talking about how strong T-Mobile and CSC are, not about how Floyd 'gave' the jersey to Oscar.

As long as floyed makes it into the top ten he has a good chance of getting onto the podium after all of the disqualifications. Tours arent really over until the statue of limitations runs out.

That is correct. Pereiro got lucky, very lucky that day. T-Mobile should be kicking themselves (hey, CSC got the stage win that day, right?).

Well I guess what CSC and T-mobile have to learn is that if they really want to win the Tour they have to take charge whether they have the yellow or not. I think their move to just leave things to Phonak which is obviously a weak team is highly amateurish. I guess they gotta get over not having Discovery(or Postal) controlling the race like the past 7 years and actually take some charge themselves!!!

I personally am rooting for Pereiro to win the Tour! Sure he had a bad time in the Pyrennes but he is rocking in the Alps and exploiting good luck and your competitors mistakes is the mark of a true champion.

Looks like the handlebar tape and tires are yellow; I don't think the frame is yellow.


Recalling Rasmussen's polka dot helmet, shorts, socks and shoes from last year, maybe Rab will have a polka dot bike.

Now that Pereiro has an outside shot at yellow, I wonder if Hincapie will do a little work for him, after all, Pereiro gifted him a stage win last year....

Not much mentioned, but check out Dessel...he's hangin' tough. Although not an exceptional time trialist, he's got decent chance at a podium spot if he hangs on, or at least top 5.

With Pereiro looking at a podium spot, if not winning outright we've got two guys that very few people would have expected to hit the top of the leader board in Paris. Wow.

My heart goes out to Floyd, man, the "Menonite Menace", but menace no more. If he recuperates (doubt it after the way he cracked) he might try to do an attempt, sort of like the "Chicken" did today, that
would be a real hat trick.
Kudos to Floyd, nonetheless!!! for giving it his best shot in spite of a worn-out hip.

Corsaire :)

Team would have meant a lot today for Phonak as they could have pushed a stronger tempo longer thus discouraging moves from the other GC contenders. Floyd has been left along so many times so him having to react to all the attacks will take his toll.

Would this have changed today's outcome, probably not. I'm thinking we'll find out after the tour what really happened to floyd. Whether he really didn't want to our actually couldn't really put the hammer down on previous stages. Was he hurting? If so how much.

I also noticed a lot fo sweat coming from the floyd. He didn't seem to drip as much as today, sign of dehydration?

All of this has made for an interesting tour and all I hope now is more people step up to make it a really interesting fight to the finish.

well, it's time to start guessing what happened to floyd, before we get the official answer. it looked to me like he just bonked. It seemed to me that his cadence after he cracked was .. syncopated. Like he was favoring one leg. I think his hip was giving him hell, though perhaps la bonk made it look worse than it was.

Given how he was gulping nutrient drinks in the car, I'd say there was definitely some low energy involved.

Funny, when I said that giving up 29 minutes to Periero was a mistake the collective
wisdom was 1) Periero lost huge time on the first climb (pyrenees). 2) that Floyd was
gonna eat his lunch and he didn't have a snowballs chance in hell.

why do you guys all think just because Periero lost time on one climb that
he is gonna lose huge chunks on every climb?
10th last year? you seem to think that's as good as Lanterne Rouge, but look who
was ahead of him last year that isn't in the tour now. Funny take them out and
he is top 5.
Podium position looks pretty reasonable right about now.

Marty

You omitted:
1) he was runnerup to Rasmussen last year for the polka dots; and
2) but for Hincapie's tagging along, Oscar nearly won consecutive mountain stages last year.

Given his cushion on Sastre and Kloden, the playing field is well balanced amongst the top 3.

[QUOTE=jslopez]
I also noticed a lot fo sweat coming from the Floyd. He didn't seem to drip as much as today, sign of dehydration?
QUOTE]

Yeah, I noticed that too from a pic of him soon after crossing the finish line (I have yet to watch the replay by OLN tonite!), he was drenched in sweat, and I mean SOAKING WET. I can relate to injuries, because I have a lower back problem, that when it lets me down on a hill, I find myself working so hard that I sweat like a pig too, perhaps his hip was letting him down, who knows. Floyd battled it like a man unitl he could no more.

Corsaire

floyd cracking like this was soul crushing. I almost had to stop listening the audio stream because it was so sad. Its going to be tough to watch when I get home.

floyd cracking like this was soul crushing. I almost had to stop listening the audio stream because it was so sad. Its going to be tough to watch when I get home.

But...show must go ON!

Corsaire

floyd cracking like this was soul crushing. I almost had to stop listening the audio stream because it was so sad. Its going to be tough to watch when I get home.

Where do you get an audio feed? I've been reading a text feed and gap graphics from letour.fr

Euro's still cranked at how his Brits fukced up the World Cup, an event they should have done well in.

Ten bucks Kloden bogarted Ullrich's unused blood bags for this stage and left little Matty Kessler with table scraps.:)

I still don't understand why everyone is fixated on Phonak losing the yellow to Pereiro last week.

Yeah, Oscar's in yellow, but so what if Phonak reeled him back in last week to save the jersey? Floyd cracked so hard today that it would be Sastre or Kloden in yellow anyway.

In that case we'd be talking about how strong T-Mobile and CSC are, not about how Floyd 'gave' the jersey to Oscar.

Everyone seems to think the Oscar's an also ran, and someone who could not carry the jersey
to paris. I think otherwise, look at his palmares I think he is a serious threat (obviously now) and
should never have been allowed to gain that much time.
yah someone would be in yellow today other than floyd, but this just puts an additional
threat for Phonak to counter.

marty

from Procycling.com

19/07/2006
On Wednesday evening, after losing his yellow jersey to Oscar Pereiro a second time – this time not intentionally – a philosophical Floyd Landis sat in the porch of his chalet on La Toussuire and faced a huddle of the world’s press.





“Sometimes you don’t feel well. Sometimes it’s on the wrong day. Today was not a good day to have a bad day. It was the most I could do. I was struggling even on the climbs before that, trying to hide it, but I wasn’t good, and then on the last climb, when I was dropped, there was only a certain speed I could go, which wasn’t very fast.



“I don’t think it was a problem with not eating enough. I just wasn’t good from the beginning. Lot of times I feel that way, and it comes around again, but there was never a flat part where you could recover for 15 minutes.



“I can’t ignore what happened – it doesn’t change anything – so I thought I’d come down here, and at least smile for you.



“Yes – it’s another hard day tomorrow and things change. You saw [Oscar] Pereiro was 30 minutes down and now he has the lead. I don’t expect to win the Tour at this point – it’s not easy to get back eight minutes, but I’ll keep fighting – it’s not over yet.



“I’m happy for Oscar. He’s a friend of mine. That’s the way the Tour went. I said several times it doesn’t matter what the other guys do – I focus on what I do – but seeing Oscar in the yellow jersey certainly doesn’t disappoint me in any way. He’s a good person and he was a good team-mate [when he was at Phonak].



“How will I deal with it mentally? I’ll drink some beer. [laughs] That’s what I’m thinking about now! It’s not so bad. I never assumed that the Tour was won at any point. I said many times that I could have a bad day at any point and that’s why I was racing conservatively every day that I did feel good. Yeah – the bad day came at the wrong time.



“I’m proud of my team for standing behind me the whole time and risking everything on me; it’s not easy to do. On the other hand, I’d be lying if I said I could just forget about it. My hip was not a factor, but I wouldn’t tell you if it was. [laughs]



“You have a good day, you have a bad day. If you can arrange it so that the bad days are on the easier days then that’s what you do, but you can’t really predict it. I’d just as soon forget it – it’s just the way it is.



“Until now I’ve felt well. I’ve been, I think, consistent. On the easier days, you don’t know how bad the day is if you don’t feel good. You find out on a day like today. But up until now, things have gone well. Today things didn’t go so well.



“I can say that I did everything that I could do to be the best that I could at this Tour, and I’d change today if I could, but I don’t know what I would have done differently, so I can’t say that I regret anything that I did.



“My chances of winning the Tour are very small at this point, but I’ll keep fighting because you never know what’s going to happen next, but I wouldn’t say that the odds are good for a betting person.



“It looks to me like [Andreas] Kloden has a very good chance and [Carlos] Sastre looked strong today, but it will be very difficult for him to get more time tomorrow. It’s not as difficult as today. Pereiro also was quite good today, so I imagine it will come down to the time trial as the time gaps are not so big.



“Bicycle racing is a big part of my life, but today doesn’t change anything about who I am or what I’ll do next. I regret the way it went today, but I don’t regret anything I did because I don’t know what I could have done to change anything.”

from Procycling.com

19/07/2006“I’m happy for Oscar. He’s a friend of mine. That’s the way the Tour went. I said several times it doesn’t matter what the other guys do – I focus on what I do – but seeing Oscar in the yellow jersey certainly doesn’t disappoint me in any way. He’s a good person and he was a good team-mate [when he was at Phonak].

Floyd's a class guy. Hearing him say stuff like this makes it much easier to wade through EURO's bile-filled rants.

Hey buddy! http://www.advrider.com/forums/images/smilies/wave.gif

Class guy. Do you think Armstrong could have given an interview like that, a few hours after that stage?

Class guy. Do you think Armstrong could have given an interview like that, a few hours after that stage?

Some would argue that this is why Lance won the Tour and Floyd won't. Still, very classy indeed. Well done, Floyd, and good luck tomorrow. :)

There it is. Class all the way.

Cycling news takes the best pics.

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/2885/dv94641fj8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/8740/dv94635ac2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/2569/skeletorvp0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Good luck Floyd tomorrow! I'll be rooting for you from my office in front of the monitor.

Corsaire

This is why Floyd revealed the news about his hip.

Floyd didn't bonk, he didn't run out of fluids and he didn't miss his team. He simply isn't fast enough.

I'm not sure of the exact definition of bonk, but if its anything like a total collapse, then FL bonked. He didn't just slow down, unable to keep pace... he started crawling.

If it was caused by dumb nutrition decisions, its still his fault as he should no better that to try to fake out the field that he could pace without food.

Where do you get an audio feed? I've been reading a text feed and gap graphics from letour.fr
The audio from eurosport.com is great.

p.s.
I have a big e-crush on EURO. Every time he posts, I get a hard-on.
He's so witty and erudite.

Just first rate all the way. I was so upset... everyone in my fitness club was looking at me like I was on crack- I could not stop yelling! It's so sad that Floyd had to crack on such an important day by so many minutes. If it had come one day later, maybe he wouldn't have lost so many points, and maybe he'd still have a chance. :( Oh well... it sounds like he's not going to give up yet, though. I'm still crossing my fingers- maybe he'll get an early break and be able to gain some distance and have a couple of good days, though I know we're all going to be realistic.

Man, it really does feel good to me to read Floyd's words, though. He is all class. Not regretful at all at the tactics he used and how it just all blew up in his face when he cracked during a pivotal stage.

Good luck, Floyd!

Koffee

No wonder Floyd cracked...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2006/tour06/index.php?id=/photos/2006/tour06/tour0616/32

Warning, if you're offended by mild nudity, don't click.

I'm not sure of the exact definition of bonk, but if its anything like a total collapse, then FL bonked. He didn't just slow down, unable to keep pace... he started crawling.

If it was caused by dumb nutrition decisions, its still his fault as he should no better that to try to fake out the field that he could pace without food.

It looked like a bonk to me too- I mean... he just looked like he tried to respond, and that tiny bit of effort just took the last of whatever he had, and he just started backpedaling down the hill, just waiting for a team member to attach himself to and get back to climbing. Can you imagine yourself ("you" meaning doubters) climbing all day long for hours and hours starting with an uphill monster climb and just going up and down the Alps in that heat? Uuugh, I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Floyd has no reason to be ashamed. The best of them can crack at the craziest times, and even if he finishes in the bottom of the pack, he made it a great race- with the doping crap, I really thought the Tour would be in trouble. But there's been some great racing in this Tour... and everyone is right- it's anyone's game, and with Lance gone, it's the most exciting Tour we've seen in years. I wouldn't trade this day for two more Armstrong Tour wins.

Koffee

Not much mentioned, but check out Dessel...he's hangin' tough. Although not an exceptional time trialist, he's got decent chance at a podium spot if he hangs on, or at least top 5.

With Pereiro looking at a podium spot, if not winning outright we've got two guys that very few people would have expected to hit the top of the leader board in Paris. Wow.

Dessel has gotten no respect at all. Today, he and Perreiro would be left off the GC list when it was posted even though they both were riding well in front.

One reason they are still both very well positioned in the tour, despite the expert predictions, is that pace on the hard mountain stages has not been insanely high, except for Menchov's pyrenees win, so maybe that's why they haven't been dropped.

There's going to be some very tired people tommorow. I expect 2-3 in the top 10 will finish 15minutes+ back.

I think that any Tour rider, GC contender or no, on any big mountain stage has the potential for a bad day and a colapse in their GC prospects. If it happens to somebody on the wrong day it's just bad luck, so I call Floyd's collapse today nothng more than bad luck. In fact, given the wall he hit, he didn't do too bad. Given the time gaps seen he could well have lost 20 or even 30 minutes. Look at what happened to Popo today. Look at what happened to our new GC man in the Pyrenees. Today it's Floyd, tomorrow, given the level of fatigue that must be setting in, it could be Oscar or Carlos. Let's face it, this is a hard race.

I think that any Tour rider, GC contender or no, on any big mountain stage has the potential for a bad day and a colapse in their GC prospects. If it happens to somebody on the wrong day it's just bad luck, so I call Floyd's collapse today nothng more than bad luck. In fact, given the wall he hit, he didn't do too bad. Given the time gaps seen he could well have lost 20 or even 30 minutes. Look at what happened to Popo today. Look at what happened to our new GC man in the Pyrenees. Today it's Floyd, tomorrow, given the level of fatigue that must be setting in, it could be Oscar or Carlos. Let's face it, this is a hard race.

It even happened to Lance once when "the snow turned black". He was lucky to loose only a couple of minutes. Floyd really cracked badly at the worst possible time. A shame! Still, I expect him to fight to the end.

Sorry to repeat myself, but what a GREAT race!!!

Landis is not doing badly given his hip condition (not making excuses for him, as he doesn't either). But his doctor said that he had lost a full inch of femur length in that leg. How are they adjusting for that? Shims in shoes, I suspect, as usual.

the audio feed is on eurosport.com

Having a bad day is probably a function of how hard you worked previous days. Usually stage winners are well back on the following day, and maybe Landis went similarly too hard yesterday.

It looked like a bonk to me too- I mean... he just looked like he tried to respond, and that tiny bit of effort just took the last of whatever he had, and he just started backpedaling down the hill, just waiting for a team member to attach himself to and get back to climbing. Can you imagine yourself ("you" meaning doubters) climbing all day long for hours and hours starting with an uphill monster climb and just going up and down the Alps in that heat? Uuugh, I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Floyd has no reason to be ashamed. The best of them can crack at the craziest times, and even if he finishes in the bottom of the pack, he made it a great race- with the doping crap, I really thought the Tour would be in trouble. But there's been some great racing in this Tour... and everyone is right- it's anyone's game, and with Lance gone, it's the most exciting Tour we've seen in years. I wouldn't trade this day for two more Armstrong Tour wins.

Koffee

Velonews.com has the post-stage video interview with Floyd. He said that he "started the day feeling bad and just hid it until the end."

When asked if his hip was a factor, he quickly answered no. When asked if he would even admit if his hip was a factor, he said no.

I still don't understand why everyone is fixated on Phonak losing the yellow to Pereiro last week.

Yeah, Oscar's in yellow, but so what if Phonak reeled him back in last week to save the jersey? Floyd cracked so hard today that it would be Sastre or Kloden in yellow anyway.

In that case we'd be talking about how strong T-Mobile and CSC are, not about how Floyd 'gave' the jersey to Oscar.

Not only that, but part of the issue was that Phonak wanted other teams to help set the pace, and they weren't interested in doing it - the other teams were more interested in trying to wear down Phonak before the mountains, I guess. If Pereiro takes the yellow in Paris, there will be plenty of teams kicking themselves for not trying to boost the tempo just a little bit in that one stage.

Maybe, but remember in that first TT, 20 minutes before the race the UCI changed his handlebars, then IN the TT the handlebars broke and he lost time to stopping the bike, getting off it, getting on a new bike and reaccelerating and he STILL placed 2nd overall. That's pretty solid TT ability.


The UCI did NOT change his handlebars.

His bike was picked for inspection, it failed and had to be brought into conformity. How do these legends get started?

The UCI doesn't change people's bikes, it enforces the rules that everyone knows.

Euro's still cranked at how his Brits fukced up the World Cup, an event they should have done well in.
Wow! What an idiot you are...

1. There is no ‘British’ football team – it’s England, ******. I'm English.
2. I hate football
3. The England team are totally overrated and we were lucky to get where we did.

I'm not sure of the exact definition of bonk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypoglycemia

Landis has already said in interviews it was not a bonk/hunger knock etc.

p.s.
I have a big e-crush on EURO. Every time he posts, I get a hard-on.
He's so witty and erudite.
Wow, I’m into men. Do you have a webcam? Maybe we could masturbate together?

...and you know this? From hanging out with your other pro buddies?
Nah – from the man himself. Read the interviews.

Or is this similar to your dismissal of Oscar Pereiro's chances in another thread based on reliable information?
Pererio himelf doesn’t think he can win. Read the interviews.

This is after Floyd essentially dominated the entire Tour de France field in the opening long TT (except for one rider who quickly faded in the high mtns) and won three big events - The Tour of California, Georgia and Paris-Nice against many of the same riders @ the TDF, all in the last 4 months. So what evidence this is based on is puzzling. Oh, right, Euro just pulled this out of his arse. There you go.
Sorry, I assumed you had some intelligence. Obviously I meant he wasn’t fast enough ‘on the day’. You know, Eddy Merkcx won a bunch of races in the past too. Do you think he would have won today if they gave him a bike? You are only as good as your last result.

I'm so happy that all the American dreams failed.

Maybe you guys could go back to golf and sailing now? Cheers. Nah, leave the light on.