Why don't they just admit everybody dopes and it can't be controlled? Cool thing is, they've left open the chance for an all American podium this year. Wouldn't the French love that! Might not ever be another Tour if that happens......:)

Vino too? I thought he was still safe... this is going to be a very interesting tour!!!!

Oh, I dunno....it seems to change every 5 minutes, so I'm gonna wait and see who actually starts. If Vino actually gets to race and is in top form, it will be pretty interesting. I would say a fight between Vino, Floyd, and Levi. I'm still curious to see how George fares, but if he's clean, this could explain a lot of why he's always been pretty good, but not "wow, Holy crap did you see that guy???" good. For example....like Basso in the Giro this year....

Now we get to listen to Phil Ligget mention the doping scandal every 5 minutes during the broadcasts.

Ok so what is the over under on the TdF actually starting? I was reading the interview with Bruyneel and he made this comment:
I don't know exactly the situation is there, but it's bad for everybody. And it's not good that certain teams might go out of the Tour and others might not. It should either be all or nothing. All the information (from Operacion Puerto) needs to be acted on. I don't think we can start the Tour de France with those kind of doubts and uncertainty. It's bad for the riders and there's already enough suspicion around.

all depends who their friends and contacts were.... all you need is a friend who is a Dr. that treats cancer patients to get EPO.

wow, your quite right. I never thought of that.

But what about from a more basic angle, are drugs such as creatine (which are cheap and easy to get a hold of) much in the way of performance enhancing?

This is from Eurosport.

http://www.eurosport.com/cycling/tour-de-france/2006/sport_sto917170.shtml

If all those guys doped...there is no way armstrong didn't.

You may be right, but the kind of evidence you present and $3.75 will get you a medium latte around here.

While Vino's name did not appaear on the list of riders implicated, nine of his team-mates did.

So it'll be just like TdF's in the past when Vino pretty much rode by himself. Right on.....

This must be pretty damning evidence if it got big boys thrown out of the Tour. Armstrong has had some pretty strong allegations against him before and taken the start. I wonder who else will disappear before the day is done. This a huge blow to this years Tour. That being said, if these guys are guilty, I'm glad that they are doing something about it. Just a real shame it has to be leaving a dark cloud over what should have been the most exciting Tour in 7 years.

:eek:

Surely there wouldnt be many people around locally, to give athletes access to such drugs.
There was a really good (or bad dpending on the way want to look at it) article I read recently about a master's rider in (I think) CA. Wanted to see how hard it was to get Performance Enhancing Drugs's to help him race stronger. He went to some anti-aging MD and within an hour was on a PED regimine. He kept very good track of what the PED's did for him etc. It was amazing to me to see how easy it was and how effective it was.

There goes the ratings don't you think?

Oh well, will keep up with it anyway to see what transpires!

OMG! This is getting crazy.

I told y'all this is all a plot by Lance (hey he lived in spain) to
get George into the Yellow jersey. . .seriously.

as I said this makes Festina look like a small town bust of some high schoolers
with a 6 pack of PBR.

marty

So it'll be just like TdF's in the past when Vino pretty much rode by himself. Right on.....
LOL. I see that ASO might just tell CAS that they are banning the team anyway. Pretty tough to get another ride at this point, espcially when some of the teams say they will not even ride with substitutes.

I told y'all this is all a plot by Lance (hey he lived in spain) to
get George into the Yellow jersey. . .seriously.


So we're still on for Freddy Rodriguez for the Green Jersey and Chris Horner for the Polka Dots, right?

It's so great that the pure hearted Americans don't dope. ;)

What I find strange about Ivan Basso involvement in the Spanish doping affair, is not that he was doping, but that he seems to have done it on his own. I would always have thought, that if Basso was using dope, it would be under Bjarne Riis' strict control.
This will be a crazy TdF. But looking on the bright side, I think we will have a much more old fashionend TdF, with much less time between the top contenders, so the race will be much more exciting than usual.

--
Regards

Where do you get the idea, that if Basso was doping, Riis didn't know?

This f***ing sucks. Shaping up to be the best tour since 1999, and maybe since 1989, and now its going to be a disaster. I'm glad Iwent to the Tour last year. I'd be extremely pissed if I was paying to go see this year's Tour.

Doping? No way! I didn't realize doping happened in cycling.

"It's my responsibility to make this decision and suspend Ivan from the race," Riis said. "I have to think about the team, that is now the most important thing. I trust Ivan Basso, but now it is up to him and his lawyers to show he has nothing to do with this affair."

So I guess in other parts of the world, you're GUILTY until proven INNOCENT? What a rip. One thing's for sure, the Jan will have something to say about this. I for one am looking forward to his comments.

Looks like Lance got out just in time. This is ugly.

If all those guys doped...there is no way armstrong didn't.

If common sense doesn't work showing you why this statement makes no sense (it does for most people) then perhaps you should consider taking a philosophy class teaching the fundamentals of logical reasoning. There is no correlation between the two elements in your argument.

i don't see the big deal. so they dope? who cares? much ado about nothing. they ALL do it. it's still the gretest spectacle in sports.:eek: :) :eek: :) :D

So I guess in other parts of the world, you're GUILTY until proven INNOCENT? What a rip.
It's a suspension from this race, not a conviction.

Side note - I notice none of your are calling conspiracy and blaming 'the french' for being 'jealous' as you did with accusations against Armstrong.

well that changes everything

So we're still on for Freddy Rodriguez for the Green Jersey and Chris Horner for the Polka Dots, right?

It's so great that the pure hearted Americans don't dope. ;)
Absofreakinlutely!

you know if this whole thing wasn't so sad, this would be really funny.

my pick?
Valverde takes yellow
Hincapie, levi and Floyd all in top 10
as well as Cunego and Simoni (who may get his chance for
yellow).
marty

It just seems kind of funny this comes out right before the TDF.

WTF?!?!

What about the bookies? They must be laughing their heads off...

MKahrl - you think Armstrong was the only clean rider out of all the major tour contenders of the last ten years?

What a shame, absolutely terrible. I was looking forward to this year.

Yet another reason Lance should come back!!!

Sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

"It's my responsibility to make this decision and suspend Ivan from the race," Riis said. "I have to think about the team, that is now the most important thing. I trust Ivan Basso, but now it is up to him and his lawyers to show he has nothing to do with this affair."

So I guess in other parts of the world, you're GUILTY until proven INNOCENT? What a rip. One thing's for sure, the Jan will have something to say about this. I for one am looking forward to his comments.

I'm curious...how did their names get on the list? Has there been some preliminary blood testing already done?

I also find it amusing that one of Jan's buddies said tha Jan can't be guilty becuase he has spent 120000 euros to put an "altitude chamber " in his basement. Seems to me that it is the other way round. If you are willing to spend that much on such an item, what's a couple thousand euros on some blood work? If they hadn't gotten careless, they would have never been caught. Moreover, for us to continue to say its a sport is silly. This is business and just as lacking in ethics at the highest levels as is any other business. Maybe we should just call this the "Enron of cycling!" Or, if you are European maybe the "Parmalat of cycling." Hugh lapses in ethical business practice in all THREE cases.

Here's a name nobody mentions for top ten, but I think now will be there, maybe even top 5....

Danilo Di Luca from Leaky Gas.

It's a suspension from this race, not a conviction.

Side note - I notice none of your are calling conspiracy and blaming 'the french' for being 'jealous' as you did with accusations against Armstrong.


well..that was really focused on one man. This list is much larger. Unless the conspiracy is to shut down the TDF altogether, I suspect there is some merit here.

Just thought of something else- make sure you read "The Jan's" blog on myspace, it'll be hilarious for sure!

Side note - I notice none of your are calling conspiracy and blaming 'the french' for being 'jealous' as you did with accusations against Armstrong.

Duh! It's a SPANISH conspiracy to keep the Italians and Germans off the podium... :rolleyes:

By the way, good to see you posting with some frequency, EURO. This place needs some spark.

Hey, how's the racing season progressing?

It's not so much that these guys dope, over the past few years I've learned to accept this fact, it's the timing of the bust. Had this happened in January and not the eve of the Tour it would have been one thing but this has now ruined the race for me.

In the bigger picture the timing may be just what cycling needs. The Tour will give even more coverage to this epidemic and maybe, just maybe, the teams and riders will start to move away from chemically assisted racing. I don't hold out much hope that it this will cause a massive change in the way the peloton races, but you never know.

As for Vino's chances for overall they are gone. There are too many good riders with full teams for him to have a chance, Disco, Evans, Valverde, Levi, Flandis, and a few others.

The list so far (31 riders)

Astaná-Würth: Michele Scarponi, Marcos Serrano, David Etxebarria, Joseba Beloki, Angel Vicioso, Isidro Nozal, Unai Osa, Jörg Jaksche

CSC: Ivan Basso

Caisse d'Epargne-Illes Balears: Constantino Zaballa

Saunier Duval: Carlos Zarate

AG2R: Francisco Mancebo

T-Mobile: Jan Ullrich, Oscar Sevilla

Phonak: Jose Enrique Gutierrez, Jose Ignacio Gutierrez

Comunidad Valenciana: Vicente Ballester, David Bernabeu, David Blanco Rodriguez, Jose Adrian Bonillla, Juan Gomis Lopez, Eladio Jimenez, David Latasa, Javier Pascual, Ruben Plaza, J.Luis M. Jimenez

Unibet.Com: Carlos Garcia Quesada

Retired/suspended riders: Roberto Heras, Angel Casero, Santiago Perez, Tyler Hamilton

from http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jun06/jun30news2

Wow, this is just crazy. I mean it borders on down right silly in my mind. Later.

So I guess in other parts of the world, you're GUILTY until proven INNOCENT? What a rip. One thing's for sure, the Jan will have something to say about this. I for one am looking forward to his comments.


Having your team pull you from a race is very different from whether or not you are found guilty in a court of law... and I really don't care if they are ever found guilty in a court of law - they'll appeal it to death, (Mr. Tyler Hamilton) and we'll never really know what happened.

I really like what Millar has said: (and I don't like the fact that he doped - but if he's clean now, I really like his attitude)

"I ****ed up, I made a lot of mistakes, I cheated, I lied. But I'm the one who has to live with that. I'm the one with the regrets."

Millar admitted that it was while watching the Tour de France last year, during his ban, that he realized exactly what he had ruined.

"It was like seeing it from the eyes of a child," he said. "That's when I realized the opportunity I'd had and how I wasted it."

And yet Lance does this for 7 years and never comes up positive. Hmmmm I wonder, maybe because he is clean and just works harder than everyone else.

Maybe I should enter, it seems I would have a good chance this year with noone in the race to compete against me :)

All jokes aside, this is just so disheartening.

The early news reports are conflicting as to which riders are barred as of Friday, and which other riders may be barred by Sunday. Ullrich and Basso seem definitely out. Mancebo, Beloki, and Vinokourov are still the subject of conflicting reports.

And, it is likely that riders will be withdrawn over the next three weeks if significant evidence against them is made public or delivered to their teams or to Tour de France organizers.

By the time the Peloton gets to Paris, perhaps only the French riders will remain. So, the French may finally win the Tour de France. But, they will be winning a very small TdF, something on the scale of winning the Tour de El Paso.

I wish it wasn't true. I really like Ullrich, and was pulling for him.

I was all excited for tomorrow, not so much now.

This is terrible. I was so looking forward to the Ivan/Jan duel this year.

Well...uh... Floyd, Levi and George on the podium now! :)


This sucks.

Side note - I notice none of your are calling conspiracy and blaming 'the french' for being 'jealous' as you did with accusations against Armstrong.

It is funny how there are no French or American (other than Hamilton) riders on the list though. Maybe they are trying to make it a French vs USA race.:)

And yet Lance does this for 7 years and never comes up positive. Hmmmm I wonder, maybe because he is clean and just works harder than everyone else.
Dude, none of these riders have ever come up positive. They've not failed a test, they've been implicated by a police investigation into a doping ring. The very fact that these doping riders have passed multiple tests just reinforces the utter stupidity of the 'Armstrong never tested positive' argument, and testing in general.

And yet Lance does this for 7 years and never comes up positive. Hmmmm I wonder, maybe because he is clean and just works harder than everyone else.

sure... (wink wink)

Has anything been proven, or is this guit by association?