Will they be able to put in replacement riders for the ones that are out ?

Seems to be conflicting news on this.

no replacement riders, so the field will be much smaller.

(still waits anxiously for more names..)

I'd say that this could actually help ratings (in the US...if nowhere else), as Americans and Aussies could really take the spotlight. Be certain that OLN will be scrambling for backstories of all American riders.

:eek: have you been watching oln at all, for the past month they have been spotlighting the american "challengers" and all but saying they were on the same level as Basso and DaJan. George, floyd and levi are fantastic riders and capable of winning the tour NOW but it was the german or the italians' race to loose.

Side note - I notice none of your are calling conspiracy and blaming 'the french' for being 'jealous' as you did with accusations against Armstrong.No, but I'm sure someone will pipe up about how this is a conspiracy concocted by the "Lance Machine" to guarantee a Disco victory this year, and I'm sure you won't have a problem with that bit of spuriousness. Lotek?

Armstrong can't seem to win, well, except when he's racing. :)

NOW we can talk about a wide open Tour. Sheesh. Few points:
-Ratings? Please...tuned in to ESPN this morning to see if I could get some info. Yah right.

-The "guilty till proved innocent" system was a great post...it's true that's how it's done there.

-It would be curious to get some European's outlook on the whole thing. I read somewhere that the perception of Americans on doping is one of shock and disbelief.."What? It can't be!!" Where in Europe the perception is more on the lines of "Doping? But of course." True???

Sad sad.

CSC should offer Vinikourov a job, since the rest of his team is out (and since he doesn't seem implicated - yet) and maybe he'd have a shot at GC.

It's a suspension from this race, not a conviction.

Side note - I notice none of your are calling conspiracy and blaming 'the french' for being 'jealous' as you did with accusations against Armstrong.

Thats because they probably are guilty. From what LA has been doing the last 7 years absolutely destroying other teams hopes for winning. I mean those teams must have been under mounting pressure...TREMENDOUS pressure year after year to perform better when there was no way for them to beat lance. Obviously alot of them musta started taking drugs. At least thats my opinion.

I don't think this list is a magic bullet - but what it may do, by putting Jan and Basso and others, (and their tema and sponsors) in such a hurt, is open up dialog about this. People somwhere, somehow, know whats going on. Let's get it on the table and deal with it... however it is decided is fine by me - but lets end the charade.

This is the right direction to think.

Remember, sponsors don't want to be the next Libery Seguros, having to drop a major sponsorship to save face for corporate investors. International corporations that provide millions of dollars/euros into sport don't want to be disgraced. They would rather pull a rider like Ullrich or Basso before being embarassed.

And don't think this doesn't factor into a desicion by Riis when he voluntarily pulls Basso. He's got CSC in his ear saying, "Yo, Bjarne.... you better not embarass or shame our good name..."

no replacement riders, so the field will be much smaller.

oops. maybe there will be some replacements.....

I don't blame these guys for doping. I would do it too if I was in their shoes. Everyone wants to win. I want to win. And if I could ride at that level, I'd do what I could to make the playing field as even as possible for me. All the doctors would have to say to me is, 'this will make the pain not as bad, and you'll ride faster.'

Well sign me right the heck up, doc.

The UCI will never get rid of doping because everyone - the DS's, the fans, the media, the sponsors, even the riders themselves - expects superhuman stuff. Always faster, faster, faster. We expect the incredible out of our athletes.

If I wanted to see ordinary mortals ride up a mountain, I'd go do it myself. No one would sponsor me to do it, no one would aim a TV camera at me, and only a very small group of fans would show up to cheer. I think I could do Mt. Ventoux in three days.

This whole scandal, as ugly as it looks, won't affect cycling in any real way. Some careers will be ruined, but other riders will come along. Sponsors will come and go. If anything, it will force the doctors and their patients to get more creative and alert. Then the UCI can claim it cleaned up cycling - in the same way Bud Selig has claimed to have cleaned up baseball - and they can go back to ignoring the whole problem.

And dang it if this won't be the most interesting TdF in five years.

I'm with Bruce. It's terrible these riders are getting the hook without real solid proof that they are guilty of anything. The Dick Pound mentality rears it's ugly head.

There is an on going Police investigation and some of that evidence has been turned over to The Tour and each respective team. The teams have suspended the riders based on that evidence. This is what I am understanding from reading the news this morning. It is not just some French newspaper article pointing fingers. Later.

this could mean the very unclimatic career end of ullrich. wasn't he set to retire after this season anyway?

This from T-Mobile: "We suspended Jan Ullrich, Oscar Sevilla and Rudy Pevenage for the time being. Of course, it's up to them to prove their innocence."

Although it doesn't sound like they've got a leg to stand on, this is a harsh choice of words. It's supposed to be guilt proven, not innocence. From the sounds of it, guilt may ultimately be proven, but until then your own team shouldn't use such language. Ban them from the Tour because the agreement requires it, but don't throw them under the bus until all the facts are in.

so much for bjarne riis and his dedication to loyalty. ****er should be shot.

Wow, what a bummer. It seems strange that the teams would suspend the riders without due process under the law, or at least, some official sanctioning body for the sport. The fallout is going to be huge. :(

all that noise from bjarne riis about communication and loyalty and teamwork. pathetic.

This from T-Mobile: "We suspended Jan Ullrich, Oscar Sevilla and Rudy Pevenage for the time being. Of course, it's up to them to prove their innocence."

Although it doesn't sound like they've got a leg to stand on, this is a harsh choice of words. It's supposed to be guilt proven, not innocence. From the sounds of it, guilt may ultimately be proven, but until then your own team shouldn't use such language. Ban them from the Tour because the agreement requires it, but don't throw them under the bus until all the facts are in.

Yeah, that statement pretty much leaves Ulle and Oscar swinging out in the breeze... gee, thanks for the support T-Mobile!

Again, T-Mobile doesn't need a taint of scandal against the millions it provides the team each year. The team pretty much has to be harsh in this situation to show its sponsor that it is on board with the wishes of corporate.

It's business.

This might be bad for the Tour this year, It's better in the long run that this gets cleaned up. Younger riders have to know that there isn't a different set of rules for the guys at the top.

Suddenly, it's a completely open field and there's no shortage of riders waiting to take their places. Things are looking really good for Floyd landis now.

I say if they are doing prohibited drugs, then throw them to the dogs!

I really wnat to know what the evidence is so far. As I understand it, it's a list, blood packets and receipts. For now DNA testing should be done at the very least before suspensions I think.

And yet Lance does this for 7 years and never comes up positive. Hmmmm I wonder, maybe because he is clean and just works harder than everyone else.

try telling that to a hater

There are both sides to this, but I think it's highly unlikely that Lance was doping. i say this only because they tried their best to catch him doping. he was under a microscope. They showed up at his house whenever they thought they might be able to catch him offguard. If he doped, he's using alien drugs that don't even show up to the naked eye (looks like air or something, I guess :D). No, I think Lance was just one of those rare freaks of nature, the next step on the evolutionary chain if you will. :) I won't 100% rule out the possibility of doping immediately after cancer to get back to shape (some of Lance's responses to point-blank "Have you ever doped" questions have been decidely Mark McGuire-ish), but I'm inclined to doubt any serious doping.

From the other side however, Lance smashed two riders in the last two tours who were probably doped. I have a hard time believing a clean Lance could ride a doped Basso and Ulrich into the ground...

Go Levi, go george, go floyd... I'll still be TiVo'ing the tour.

This is what the Bush regime would call a 'pre-emptive strike.' And T-Mobile and CSC have taken the warning to heart and pre-emptively suspended their riders so they do not bring shame and embarrassment to their sponsors.

That's not entirely correct, the ProTour rules state that a rider who is involved in a doping investigation will be suspended. I don't doubt that CSC and T-Mobile have done this to cover their butt's however they are also bound by the ProTour rules to suspend these riders.

If I wanted to see ordinary mortals ride up a mountain, I'd go do it myself. No one would sponsor me to do it, no one would aim a TV camera at me, and only a very small group of fans would show up to cheer. I think I could do Mt. Ventoux in three days.



Sounds like you're a good candidate for randoneuring... that's how it goes for us. No categories to work up to, no waterbottle prizes, no groupies... ride all night and maybe your girlfriend shows up with dinner...

That's not entirely correct, the ProTour rules state that a rider who is involved in a doping investigation will be suspended. I don't doubt that CSC and T-Mobile have done this to cover their butt's however they are also bound by the ProTour rules to suspend these riders.

Ahh... but which came first? The chicken or the egg? In this case, I think it's similar. To save some face, T-Mobile and CSC both suspended their implicated riders. Perhaps they were given the time to do so by ASO and the Pro Tour.

In any case, it is all about money in the end. And sponsors provide that. We can't forget that.

Everyone dopes. The people that win are the ones that don't get caught. Sad but true. What would really suck is if you doped and still came in last place. Thats when you know you really need to find a new profession.

There are both sides to this, but I think it's highly unlikely that Lance was doping. i say this only because they tried their best to catch him doping. he was under a microscope. They showed up at his house whenever they thought they might be able to catch him offguard. If he doped, he's using alien drugs that don't even show up to the naked eye (looks like air or something, I guess :D). No, I think Lance was just one of those rare freaks of nature, the next step on the evolutionary chain if you will. :) I won't 100% rule out the possibility of doping immediately after cancer to get back to shape (some of Lance's responses to point-blank "Have you ever doped" questions have been decidely Mark McGuire-ish), but I'm inclined to doubt any serious doping.

What rock have you been living under? You realize that Ivan Basso, Jan Uhlrich, and many others on the Operation Puerto list were tested out the ying yang and never came up positive for Performance Enhancing drugs (Uhlrich was supsended for a recreational drug). In fact David Millar never tested positive.
The argument that someone never tested postive, therefore its proven they didn't dope has a fundamentally flawed premise.

From the other side however, Lance smashed two riders in the last two tours who were probably doped. I have a hard time believing a clean Lance could ride a doped Basso and Ulrich into the ground...

Wilt Chamberlain scored 100 points in a game hungover. Some people just are that dominant.

Whatever happened to childlike hope?

From cycling news: The ICU "assumes that the following riders, signed in to participate at the Tour de France 2006, are involved in the affair: Sergio Paulinho, Isidro Nozal, Allan Davis, Alberto Contador, Joseba Beloki, Francisco Mancebo, Ivan Basso, Jan Ullrich and Oscar Sevilla."

Assumes? I'd be a bit upset right now if I was any of these... If Basso is innocent of this, I would be headhunting for Riis....

This is besides the point, but that velonews site is horendous. For a long time I've noticed that they're riddled with typos, and various other grammatical errors. This may not seem like a big deal to some, but to me it is kind of important. Far be it from me to criticize a website, or an individual, for spelling errors, or the improper use of "it's" v. "its", but this is supposed to be a news source. Right off the bat, it puts their information to question. If they can't even edit or proof their articles, what faith should I put into the content of what they publish?

Right away, this caught my eye, and it probably should've caught at least one person's eye before they put it out there:

...If the 28-year-old [Francisco Mancebo] is thrown out by his team, it would mean that three of the top five finishers from last year's race would be absent.

If I'm not mistaken, that would actually make the total 4 out of 5...
Last years results:
1. Lance Armstrong (USA), Discovery Channel
2. Ivan Basso (I), CSC, 04:40
3. Jan Ullrich (G), T-Mobile, 06:21
4. Francisco Mancebo (Sp), Illes Balears, 09:59
5. Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz), T-Mobile, 11:01

A more pointed statement might have been, "the top four finishers from last year's TdF would be absent".

you are of course correct. i think they probably meant the podium finishers of last years tour (i.e. the top three). but yeah, i agree, they should write better. i imagine it's a huge panic to get these stories published as quickly as possible.

This smells fishier than Bar en Croûte de Sel.

the sucky part even for the winner is that there will be an ? as the top tour contenders weren't there.

What is all this blood doping stuff I keep hearing about?

I am not going to get into the whole did he or didn't he (lance) the issues
are muddy enough.
T-Mobile reportedly suspended Jan, Sevilla and Pevenage for lying about their
associations with Fuentes. They asked all their riders and staff to sign an affidavit
stating they had no associations, after the Gardia report came out those signed
affidavits were judge and jury, they purjered themselves (atmo).

As for innocent until proven guilty. we are not talking about the US criminal system
we are talking about a) Europe 2) Corporate Sponsorship and thirdly the court of public
opinion.

marty

No they didn't.

yeah they did - well sort of. I recall a story about how they suprised Lance and Sheryl at the door of Sheryl's apartment (I think in NYC?) one time and tested him.

There are things out there that just don't test. I recall an article in the past couple of months on some kind of growth hormone that some cyclist have been taking the past couple of years that is totally undetectable.

Guys - doping will always be in cycling. Its been there since day 1 all the way until now. Cyclist of all eras have always taken whatever they had on hand to give them as much of an edge as possible. Not saying all cyclists have been dirty, just that at all times there were some cyclists taking things to enhance their performance. In the early days it was cocain, amphetamines, ect... This bust will just stir up a dirty cloud for a while and then settle. I agree with El Diablo, the timing stinks. If it had been a few months earlier - ok. But a couple of days before the Tour is going to devastate this years race.

yeah they did - well sort of. I recall a story about how they suprised Lance and Sheryl at the door of Sheryl's apartment (I think in NYC?) one time and tested him.

That's a standard out-of-race check. Everyone is subjected to them.

m not up on the full scandal and time frame of the alleged activities. Were any of the riders on Disco at the time they alleged to be associated with the ring?
Nope, this is just one doctor. The Disco guys doping doctor would be a different guy.

Why bother to watch? Why should the riders bother to ride, except to fulfull their contracts. Any placing, any victory, will be hollow, worthless.

This might be bad for the Tour this year, It's better in the long run that this gets cleaned up. Younger riders have to know that there isn't a different set of rules for the guys at the top.
Bah - see Festina in 98 and Simpson in 67. Nothing will change.

Yeah, it's getting real ugly now.

This has made the front page as breaking news on espn.com:

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/tdf2006/news/story?id=2505072

This is terrible. I was so looking forward to the Ivan/Jan duel this year.

Maybe they can go Mano e Mano and OLN could show it between bullriding and hockey:)

In all seriousness, this is sad, if this is true these guys have lost the joy of a riding that most of the BF members display everyday! I am glad I get on a bike because I love it!

That's a standard out-of-race check. Everyone is subjected to them.

Sorry - must have misinterpreted your earlier post then. You seemed to be saying they never tested Lance at home?

Hey toss me a plane ticket I'll fill in, they'll only find THC in my blood...:lol:

Lance aside, I have the sneaky feeling that World Cycling Productions is having a big cryfest over this.

Holy shiat!!!

I just woke up!!

That popping sound you heard was a bottle of champagne in Landis' bus.

There goes the ratings don't you think?

Oh well, will keep up with it anyway to see what transpires!

I was thinking more in line with DVD sales.

They seriously need to cancel the prologue and maybe the first couple stages so they can clear this up. They need some time to do some DNA tests and then suspend. I guess I'm just spoiled by due process.

I was so excited for the tour. I was even going to get up early to watch the prologue. I think now, I'll just sleep in. The tour is going to be horrible. On OLN, every two minutes they are going to be talking about doping and how Lance didn't dope and Discovery doesn't dope, etc...I'm sick of it already and the race has yet to start. The racing may be interesting but the coverage is going to be awful. Frankly, I don't think I'll be watching unless something major happens.

Anyone else think there is a possibility that the Tour will be cancelled entirely at some point? My guess, stage 7...

They seriously need to cancel the prologue and maybe the first couple stages so they can clear this up.

Nah, i disagree, i really can't wait to see the prologue. its still gonna be the "clean"(hopefully, though who knows) David Millar vs. Dave Zabriskie (who we all hope is clean too, i'm sure)

either way, i love TTs/prologues and this should be a good one.

Does anyone think Floyd is dirty?