I say we ban them all and start over.

Does anyone think Floyd is dirty?

We can hope so, but he does ride for Phonak, which does not have a squeaky clean record when it comes to dopers....

LeBlanc and Prudhomme should be made to ride the Tour to "up" the fun factor for the rest of us.

Does anyone think Floyd is dirty?

I think Floyd's clean. I also believe that Levi and Dave Z are clean, but maybe I'm just naive. :(

*testing* :)

I wholeheartedly approve of doping. It's more entertaining when they're going faster.

Does anyone think Floyd is dirty?


Well if you look at the way he's ridden this year, then look at the records of Tyler Hamilton's doping program with the good Doctor they are almost a mirror. Dominant early season, then complete colapes at the Daulphine`. Kinda makes you wonder.

In a broader answer to your question, I believe that all of the big guns (top 50) are on some sort of PED.

And people doubted George Hincapie's chances for winning the Tour this year. Look to me like they are getting better every day.
Not gonna happen. Besides he's alone with no help and we all know George doesn't like to work if it isn't for his own.

Dr. Pete, stop being such a...a...logic user!

;)

My super accurate, unscientific, and poorly updated doping meter called it. http://dope-o-meter.blogspot.com/

And btw, are growth hormones, EPO etc. hard to get hold of?

Don't even think about it.

Woof...that was a long read.

I'll keep this brief.

Why this sucks:

1. Lance left just in time. It may be possible that this will spread and he will be found guilty, but since he is no longer racing he is of little interest i would think. So instead of knowing for sure that he did use or that he did not, we still will just be left unsure.

2. Just last night i was defending him with my cousin. The problem is that he had to have doped, there is almost zero doubt in my mind. The truth is that there was little doubt before this news came to the surface...but now.

3. If cycling is full of dopers, as well as baseball...now two sports. This can only mean that everyone inbetween is guilty as well. Football players, boxers, hockey players, polo players? Who the hell knows.

4. Two years ago i watched maybe an hour of the tour, last year i watched a couple, this year i was going to be ready with my popcorn on saturday morning...i'll still watch, but i'm slightly less interested.

I would always have thought, that if Basso was using dope, it would be under Bjarne Riis' strict control.

Nothing so far proves that assumption wrong. Remember the Mission Impossible disclaimer? "As always, should you or any member of your I.M. force be caught or killed, the secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions".

Oops...it's already been pointed out by admaster.

This post will self-destruct in 5 seconds.

Not gonna happen. Besides he's alone with no help and we all know George doesn't like to work if it isn't for his own.
Huh? How is he alone with no help? Hell he has one of the big teams that was untouched by this. At a min he is on the podium and I suspect that he finishes on top.

3. If cycling is full of dopers, as well as baseball...now two sports. This can only mean that everyone inbetween is guilty as well. Football players, boxers, hockey players, polo players? Who the hell knows.

.

The one thing that isn't being as highly covered is the fact that the list of athletes extends to Football(soccer), tennis and other high profile sports. Cycling is, as always, the biggest target when it comes to doping even though it's rampant in track and field, Football (American and the rest of the world) swimming etc etc.

So it'll be just like TdF's in the past when Vino pretty much rode by himself. Right on.....
makes the lack of a team TT really significant, no?

The one thing that isn't being as highly covered is the fact that the list of athletes extends to Football(soccer), tennis and other high profile sports. Cycling is, as always, the biggest target when it comes to doping even though it's rampant in track and field, Football (American and the rest of the world) swimming etc etc.
Yea I am actually interested in the rest of the list...I mean there were supposely 200 athletes on the thing and we are saying only 58 of them are cyclists.....

"So I guess in other parts of the world, you're GUILTY until proven INNOCENT?

Other?

Woof...that was a long read.

I'll keep this brief.

Why this sucks:

1. Lance left just in time. It may be possible that this will spread and he will be found guilty, but since he is no longer racing he is of little interest i would think. So instead of knowing for sure that he did use or that he did not, we still will just be left unsure.

2. Just last night i was defending him with my cousin. The problem is that he had to have doped, there is almost zero doubt in my mind. The truth is that there was little doubt before this news came to the surface...but now.

3. If cycling is full of dopers, as well as baseball...now two sports. This can only mean that everyone inbetween is guilty as well. Football players, boxers, hockey players, polo players? Who the hell knows.

4. Two years ago i watched maybe an hour of the tour, last year i watched a couple, this year i was going to be ready with my popcorn on saturday morning...i'll still watch, but i'm slightly less interested.

1. So your guilty until proven innocent?

1. So you guilty until proven innocent?

And coming from CA you must be a fan of barry bonds as well. The truth is that based on the way he acts during interviews has led to my mistrust of what he says as well as my own personal opinions.

His only defense is that "i've never been tested positive". Niether has barry bonds.

Huh? How is he alone with no help? Hell he has one of the big teams that was untouched by this. At a min he is on the podium and I suspect that he finishes on top.
Bruneyl is doing the throw spaghetti on wall and what sticks is good with Eki, George, Popo, and Salvo. It's everyman for himself at Disco. TT's he'll do well but the mountains?
Who's 4th' 5th' and 6th behind Hincapie??

Woof...that was a long read.

I'll keep this brief.

Why this sucks:

1. Lance left just in time. It may be possible that this will spread and he will be found guilty, but since he is no longer racing he is of little interest i would think. So instead of knowing for sure that he did use or that he did not, we still will just be left unsure.

2. Just last night i was defending him with my cousin. The problem is that he had to have doped, there is almost zero doubt in my mind. The truth is that there was little doubt before this news came to the surface...but now.

3. If cycling is full of dopers, as well as baseball...now two sports. This can only mean that everyone inbetween is guilty as well. Football players, boxers, hockey players, polo players? Who the hell knows.

4. Two years ago i watched maybe an hour of the tour, last year i watched a couple, this year i was going to be ready with my popcorn on saturday morning...i'll still watch, but i'm slightly less interested.



1. So your guilty until proven innocent?

yeah, maybe he has a vanishing testicle...

The one thing that isn't being as highly covered is the fact that the list of athletes extends to Football(soccer), tennis and other high profile sports. Cycling is, as always, the biggest target when it comes to doping even though it's rampant in track and field, Football (American and the rest of the world) swimming etc etc.

Man - people use to offer me 'roids at the gym(of course I turned them down - there was no reason for me to take 'em). And I was just a gym rat. I didn't compete at anything at the time. Doping is EVERYWHERE and easy to get a hold of. It up to the athletes to say no. But when you devote your life to something and you need it to be competitive with everyone else because they're doping, I can see where the temptation would be.

More seriously, about Ullrich, it's a bit more precise. The T-Mobile team disqualified him, because the official papers they received from Spanish authorities last night contradict what he stated to his bosses.
Would you want to pay millions to someone who lies to you? So here now, it's not anymore if he doped or not, it's about:
"I swear, Boss, that I never met that guy."
And the boss receiving evidence.



Teams want their Riders to lie to them. Thats the problem. They want riders to get results, however possible. They just don't want them to get caught, and they don't want them to implicate the team. If a Team truely wanted their riders not to dope, the team is in the position to stop it. However, there is no penalty against the team, so when the rider gets caught doing what the team knew the rider was doing, and tacitly encouraged, they hang the rider out to dry, as a lone rogue cheater.

the sucky part even for the winner is that there will be an ? as the top tour contenders weren't there.
Quite the opposite.

Does anyone think Floyd is dirty?

Does anyone think any of them are clean?

I suggested in another thread that maybe athletes should be cloistered away from the temptations of the business of sport so they CAN concentrate on being the best they can be without the drugs. 20 odd years ago Danish? riders were dropping like flies( heart attacks) because of bad steroids. It would seem pro cycling is almost the litmus test for other sports as football baseball are sort where cycling was in the 80's in terms of doping. So far in over years we've gotten worse not better. So obviously in allowing the individuals, doctors, teams and sponsors to try and conduct themselves with some sportsmanship and honour, this is what we get. Take it to their contracts, bankrupt them for non-sportsman like conduct.

Maybe that's why there's no TTT this year. The DQ's were coming and the oganizers figured there wouldn't be enough riders for a TTT:p :p :D

I wholeheartedly approve of doping. It's more entertaining when they're going faster. The problem with that is when they drop dead (http://sport.guardian.co.uk/cycling/story/0,10482,1149111,00.html)later.

Originally Posted by jslopez
the sucky part even for the winner is that there will be an ? as the top tour contenders weren't there.

If the winner is clean I don't care if he raced 5 people around France. It'll be an amazing accomplishment for 6 people then, and I will cheer madly for each of their efforts.

Bruneyl is doing the throw spaghetti on wall and what sticks is good with Eki, George, Popo, and Salvo. It's everyman for himself at Disco. TT's he'll do well but the mountains?
Who's 4th' 5th' and 6th behind Hincapie??
You don't honestly believe that do you? Eki? Eki isn't there to try to win this thing. Salvo? Maybe but the truth is they have known all season that George is their man this year and the only hickup was the Pairs-Roubaix crash. Popo isn't ready yet from everything I have seen and read.

Small wager?

What a bummer we can't see them ride. However disappointed I am in this fiasco, I'll still be watching the tour all day, every day.

You can say you were there in '06 when this happened ... "Remember when ..... ?"

Man, I can't believe how bad this situation sucks. What a thing to have to find out first thing in the morning, the day before the tour starts. I was tossing around putting off my vacation till after the tour, because I didn't want to miss any stages, I love watching each days stage on OLN. But now it's like....who gives a ****? Whoever wins won't get any credit. The whole thing is going to be tainted. It's disgusting, I'd just as soon block the whole thing out of my mind, and read about it all this winter after it's over.

I think this pretty much sums it up-

'Arthur Tabat, Ullrich friend and organizer of the "Rund um Köln" race: "This is the end of his career. There is surely something to the charges. Jan is a great cyclist, who also had great results without doping. The problem in the current situation is: if you don't dope, you don't win the Tour."'

I'm starting to wonder if some of my family members are doping.

When I was a small child my father could do anything, I saw him as equal to these riders physically. Now I know why. It has become obvious that he is doping.

BTW- Anybody know how to check someones hemocrit levels?

EDIT.

I changed my mind.

The whole sport is dirty, and Riis, Basso, Armstrong et al.are just typical.

I'm riding in July, the TDF is pointless, it's just a matter of the dopers caught VS. the dopers not-yet-caught.

How has Valverde managed to not show up on the list? He may be one of the few threats to an all American podium.

The problem with that is when they drop dead (http://sport.guardian.co.uk/cycling/story/0,10482,1149111,00.html)later.

Who cares as long as I'm entertained. Ride for me monkeys! Ride!

How has Valverde managed to not show up on the list? He may be one of the few threats to an all American podium.
Actually it sort of did. Basso is linked to the list by the name of his dog and Valverde i slinked inthe same way. From an article I just read the only reason Valverde hasn't been banned at this point is because the last reference to the name of his dog was in 2004.

Edit: The codenames discovered on the back of a business card confiscated from haemotologist Jose Luis Merino are thought to have offered further important clues. One of those codenames - "Birillo" - happens to also be the name of Basso's pet dog. The investigators' suspicions may have deepened when they realised that former Comunitat Valenciana man Alejandro Valverde owns a dog called "Piti" - another name which appeared on the business card.

Reports in Spain have indicated that Valverde escaped action today as the last references to "Piti" allegedly date from 2004.

And coming from CA you must be a fan of barry bonds as well. The truth is that based on the way he acts during interviews has led to my mistrust of what he says as well as my own personal opinions.

His only defense is that "i've never been tested positive". Niether has barry bonds.
Yes from Calif but not NoCal.

The problem with that is when they drop dead (http://sport.guardian.co.uk/cycling/story/0,10482,1149111,00.html)later.

They're all adults. They've been around athletes all their lives. They know the risks of doping.

The idea of if they are actually guilty or not is irrelevant to the suspensions:

"The directors unanimously decided to uphold the code of ethics that was signed by all teams on January 1, 2005 which stated that no team would allow a rider to compete while under investigation in any doping affair."

Anybody know how to check someones hemocrit levels?
Take a sample of the blood and taste it. How chewy is it?

Let's have more colourfully annoying posts please.

The 2006 Tour de Who Gives a F**K.

I've got a message for the Frogs, *click*
Now, maybe the french can finally get a tour winner, once they figure out how to kick out the American riders.

Pathetic.

My July is now free to do more riding.

BOYCOTT the TOUR.

Hmmm..... "What Would Ivan Basso Do?" indeed.... :(

Something gives me the feeling you would have not posted this if all these riders EXCEPT Basso were out...

As for me, I'll be glad to watch a Tour that may the beginning of a clean(er) era in the sport.

Why bother to watch? Why should the riders bother to ride, except to fulfull their contracts. Any placing, any victory, will be hollow, worthless.
Not if I was the one riding who won the Tour, hell won a stage, wore the yellow for a day, wore the white.

And come to think of it, the lantern rouge will probably not loose any of its... "luster."

Teams want their Riders to lie to them. Thats the problem. They want riders to get results, however possible. They just don't want them to get caught, and they don't want them to implicate the team. If a Team truely wanted their riders not to dope, the team is in the position to stop it. However, there is no penalty against the team, so when the rider gets caught doing what the team knew the rider was doing, and tacitly encouraged, they hang the rider out to dry, as a lone rogue cheater.

What! The teams are complicit! They facilitate the doping by either supplying the riders (ala Saiz) or in the very least turning a blind eye to what they all know is going on. Virtually every DS in the sport is a former professional rider and they know full well what is taking place. This is why I was so happy to Liberty Saguaros (sp) pull their sponsorship and Saiz get fired. I'm sick of the odd rider taking the fall for what is a top down institution of doping. I hope heads roll but this time I want to see them from the top down.

What! The teams are complicit! They facilitate the doping by either supplying the riders (ala Saiz) or in the very least turning a blind eye to what they all know is going on. Virtually every DS in the sport is a former professional rider and they know full well what is taking place. This is why I was so happy to Liberty Saguaros (sp) pull their sponsorship and Saiz get fired. I'm sick of the odd rider taking the fall for what is a top down institution of doping. I hope heads roll but this time I want to see them from the top down.
that would be a nice turn of events... "Riis, we've been paying you an buttload of money to run our team. Your premier rider just took one in the ass and made us look bad. Could you be in the office the day after the TdeF to explain how you let this happen?" -CSC Director of Marketting

^^^^ I'd love to be a fly on that wall^^^^^

What! The teams are complicit! They facilitate the doping by either supplying the riders (ala Saiz) or in the very least turning a blind eye to what they all know is going on. Virtually every DS in the sport is a former professional rider and they know full well what is taking place. This is why I was so happy to Liberty Saguaros (sp) pull their sponsorship and Saiz get fired. I'm sick of the odd rider taking the fall for what is a top down institution of doping. I hope heads roll but this time I want to see them from the top down.

Hopefully one of these riders is going to say "Screw this, I'm not taking the fall by myself, I'm taking everyone down with me."