I have run into a problem and I was hoping I could get some advice on it. I belong to an organization called "The Society for Creative Anachronism". (Any other SCA participants here?) Every August, they have a two-week-long event at a campground in Pennsylvania which is attended by more than 10,000 people. The event has a policy that no bicycles (as well as skateboards and rollerblades) are to be ridden on the event site during the event. The use of motor vehicles is restricted (for good reason) but not completely banned. I feel that bicycles should have at least the same level of access as motor vehicles. I have tried to politely reason with the event coordinator to no avail. Have any of you dealt with vehicular discrimination in a private setting before? How did you handle it?

Private event...I guess you could try to make a case, but it's a private event so they can make their own rules. I have a friend that is heavily into SCA, and from the outside it seems that they go to some lengths to be as authentic as possible. Motor vehicles can be considered necessary to transport gear, but it I would think it rare to see someone transporting much gear on a bike.

Dunno what to tell you.

Ah Pennsic.

SCA is a large organization. I would bug the various "current heads" of the three kingdoms and have them intercede. You may not succeed for this year but I am sure they will see reason eventually. It is a stupid ban, period or no. The issue is how exceptions can be interpreted. Pennsic is a chaotic event. They will need to have more complete rules.

BTW I can easily see a bike + trailer moving gear at Pennsic.
-Duncan

+1 for djwid

Perhaps make up your bike to look like a horse or some period transportation...

:)

BTW I can easily see a bike + trailer moving gear at Pennsic.

You're right. Also, people frequently make trips off-site for which a bicycle without a trailer would be suitable. On such trips, generally one person will walk to the parking lot, then drive back to their camp to pick up more people, then drive to the site entrance. Upon return to the site, the same thing happens. So that's four passes a car has to make through the site for one trip.

Being that its a private event theres not a whole lot you can do legaly and might i ask why you would? From the content of your post and the limited use of motor vehicals sounds to me like the cars trucks etc are serving only as a meathod for moving equipment etc around the site.

Being that its pre 17th century my guess is theres lot of heavy equipment like various forms of catapolts and other seige engines being used. What you might be able to do is sugest to them to use bike + trailer to move small stuff period weapons clothing etc instead of useing a car that will tend to make more noise and spoil the atmosphere.

Just a question does this group ever do any events in ohio? Ive always been a fan of this sort of thing but not many such events here in ohio. Infact lets just say that when i say a fan i mean
ic gecweðan eald Englisc just as a example :) (had to copy paste gecweðan do to charectors i cant not produce easly with my keyboard)

Man, but wouldn't all the armor make it hard to pedal? :)

I have run into a problem and I was hoping I could get some advice on it. I belong to an organization called "The Society for Creative Anachronism". (Any other SCA participants here?) Every August, they have a two-week-long event at a campground in Pennsylvania which is attended by more than 10,000 people. The event has a policy that no bicycles (as well as skateboards and rollerblades) are to be ridden on the event site during the event. The use of motor vehicles is restricted (for good reason) but not completely banned. I feel that bicycles should have at least the same level of access as motor vehicles. I have tried to politely reason with the event coordinator to no avail. Have any of you dealt with vehicular discrimination in a private setting before? How did you handle it?


Why not ride your bicycle to almost the event site, lock it up, and walk to the grounds?

Have you checked to see if they would allow bicycles at least to the same area that cars will park? I assume cars are allowed at least to a parking area so the participants can get to the event. Maybe that rule is just for the area where the event is happening (which would make sense).

-D

This is somewhat offtopic, but I didnt know Pennsic was coming up.

I've never been there, but are the paths very well suitable for bike riding? 10,000 people sounds like a sure way for mud to be everywhere constantly.

I have run into a problem and I was hoping I could get some advice on it. I belong to an organization called "The Society for Creative Anachronism". (Any other SCA participants here?) Every August, they have a two-week-long event at a campground in Pennsylvania which is attended by more than 10,000 people. The event has a policy that no bicycles (as well as skateboards and rollerblades) are to be ridden on the event site during the event. The use of motor vehicles is restricted (for good reason) but not completely banned. I feel that bicycles should have at least the same level of access as motor vehicles. I have tried to politely reason with the event coordinator to no avail. Have any of you dealt with vehicular discrimination in a private setting before? How did you handle it?


Storm through the gathering on your bike as a Mongol warrior. Might as well make their mediaeval experience more authentic. :)

Doesn't seem right, but then again, it's a private event.

Just a question does this group ever do any events in ohio?

Yes. Ohio belongs to the kingdom known as The Midrealm. Their website is "www.midrealm.org". The officer in charge of orienting new members is called the "chatelaine". That's the person to talk to if you're just getting started.

I've never been there, but are the paths very well suitable for bike riding? 10,000 people sounds like a sure way for mud to be everywhere constantly.

You can't ride fast. You can't drive fast in a car either. The point is, I should be allowed to ride my bike from my camp, out to the main road and to a store or farmstand, then ride back into the site to my camp and deliver what I just bought. The reason I should be allowed to do this is because cars are allowed to do it. I would be satisfied if cars were banned from the site as well, but I want equal treatment!

I would think that a bike is at least as authentic as wooden swords, plastic armor, running shoes with plates on them, hockey gear with stuff rivetted on it....


but I digress.


I do agree however, that banning bikes makes little sense if cars are allowed to roam around. It is inconsistant.

I would think that a bike is at least as authentic as wooden swords, plastic armor, running shoes with plates on them, hockey gear with stuff rivetted on it....


but I digress.


I do agree however, that banning bikes makes little sense if cars are allowed to roam around. It is inconsistant.

Well, not many people actually use plastic armor. ;) Egg armor and the like. But everything else is about right on.

Yes. Ohio belongs to the kingdom known as The Midrealm. Their website is "www.midrealm.org". The officer in charge of orienting new members is called the "chatelaine". That's the person to talk to if you're just getting started.

Hmm ty for the info ive got some sword skills etc could be a intresting experiance. But im guessing pretty damn expensive to. Somethign for lateri supose.

Find out who has the authority to change the policy, and ask him or her the reason behind it. See if you can find a way to deal with the concerns.

I'm not currently very active, but I've been involved in the SCA for a long time. Attended 12 straight Pennsics. Even worked on event staff a couple of times.

Pennsic is the "national convention" for the SCA. It is a private event and is held at a private campground. The SCA, the event "autoctrat" and the owners of the campground get to set the rules for participation. A bit like the organizers of a bike event not allowing rollerblades or electric bikes or pocket motor bikes to join the ride.

Cars driving within the campground are heavily frowned upon, often accompanied by shouts of "kill the dragon" ;). Cars are allowed only to transport heavy loads to and from campsites, and then must be moved to the parking areas outside the main camping area. Picking up/dropping off people from a campsite would be a big stretch of the rules that IMO should not be allowed. And unless the rules have changed, cars and motorcycles are not allowed parked within campsites (that used to grounds for expulsion from the event)

ED - Would you be willing to follow the same rules as cars and lock your bike at the parking area? And if you did, could you trust it to be safe from damage?

Couple questions -
Why do you want to ride your bike within the campground?
Is your bike your main transportation to get to Pennsic and to town? (That's a pretty long way to bike for groceries, and on a busy highway.)
Are you hauling your gear on a bike trailer?
Is it a strictly modern bike or a "period" style bike? (ie. Made of wood and/or hand forged iron)
Is there a way you can disguise it when it is within the campground? (See below)

Storm through the gathering on your bike as a Mongol warrior. Might as well make their mediaeval experience more authentic. :)
Make a horse skin covering for it, complete with head and fake legs for yourself hanging down from a saddle. Could be cloth instead of real horse. (edit - I seem to recall someone having done this about 20+ years ago, but maybe he's the reason for the ban) The SCA minimum requirement for participation is to make "an attempt", not necessarily a good attempt or a successful attempt or an authentic period attempt. Giving people a good laugh without offending the spirit of the event is usually appreciated. (And this coming from someone who is aligned with the authenticity wing of the SCA ;) )

Another approach would be if you could document a pre-1600 instance of something like a bicycle and then build something like it. That would get you respect of the "stuffy purists". I've got documentation for a reclining lounge chair from about 1560 that I always wanted to build. Maybe you'll find something like a "bone-shaker." Try the 16th century Dutch genre painting.

It's been 10 years since my last Pennsic and I miss it sometimes. Then I remember how much work it is to get ready and get there.
.....Still miss it.

Have fun.
Out of curiosity, are you affiliated with a local group or household? Or are you an independent?

What if you dress up your bike like a horse?

Cars driving within the campground are heavily frowned upon, often accompanied by shouts of "kill the dragon" ;). Cars are allowed only to transport heavy loads to and from campsites, and then must be moved to the parking areas outside the main camping area. Picking up/dropping off people from a campsite would be a big stretch of the rules that IMO should not be allowed.

I attended Pennsic two years ago and observed no hostility toward cars travelling through the site (and was in some of those cars). The rules do not explicitly prohibit it either. Parking of motor vehicles in campsites and "party-hopping" in vehicles is prohibited.

ED - Would you be willing to follow the same rules as cars and lock your bike at the parking area? And if you did, could you trust it to be safe from damage?

There are no appropriate parking facilities for bicycles but if there were such facilities, I would be willing to use them.

Why do you want to ride your bike within the campground?

I would like to be able to go out for supplies for myself and others. In the future, I would like to use my bike to travel between Pennsic and home (or maybe just the train station).

Is your bike your main transportation to get to Pennsic and to town? (That's a pretty long way to bike for groceries, and on a busy highway.)
Are you hauling your gear on a bike trailer?

Not this year but I hope it to be in the future. I hate having to beg for rides.

Is it a strictly modern bike or a "period" style bike? (ie. Made of wood and/or hand forged iron)
Is there a way you can disguise it when it is within the campground? (See below)

It's modern but my discussion with the "mayor" leads me to believe that this is not the main issue.

The horse idea occurred to me too but that was before I knew about the ban.

Out of curiosity, are you affiliated with a local group or household? Or are you an independent?

I'm associated with the Barony of Bergental.

If you are getting to the campground by car I can see why they don't want anyone to take a bike in their car and then used it to get around later, even if they are getting around by the 'rules' This means essentially that you brought two vehicles to the event and this is something that could catch on (if you are allowed everyone should be) and make order even more difficult for the planners to achieve.

But perhaps the event coordinator is not considering someone who gets to the event fully by bicycle. Then and only then do you need the same level of access.

Are your riding from home to the campground, or do you just want the bike for errands while you are there?

Alk

It seems to me that this group should welcome bicycles.

If not, switch to the cacophony society.

http://www.cacophony.org/

I attended Pennsic two years ago and observed no hostility toward cars travelling through the site (and was in some of those cars). The rules do not explicitly prohibit it either. Parking of motor vehicles in campsites and "party-hopping" in vehicles is prohibited.
.....There are no appropriate parking facilities for bicycles but if there were such facilities, I would be willing to use them....
....I would like to be able to go out for supplies for myself and others. In the future, I would like to use my bike to travel between Pennsic and home (or maybe just the train station).
When I was still active, cars with the camp ground were resented but tolerated. A necessary intrudence. But if a car stayed in a camp too long someone would often have a word with the people in that camp, or alert security if necessary.
Most of what you ask sound reasonable. Maybe you could ask the "mayor" to have a bike rack installed. If that is your main transportation to town, then they should accommodate. Behind the check in tent would be an appropriate place. Would put you closer to the road than any of the cars and would keep it under watch.
Or, since you also have a car, maybe you could snag a parking space near the parking exit, and store your bike in the car. You'll never have to move your car and will have a quick way out.

PS - Is the nearest grocery store still 15 miles away or has someone opened one closer?



It's modern but my discussion with the "mayor" leads me to believe that this is not the main issue.

The horse idea occurred to me too but that was before I knew about the ban.
Since you already talked with the autocrat, it would be hard to plead ignorance.
If it were me, I would first request and insist on a secure bike rack. I they didn't provide one, I would rig up a horse head, tail and full surcoat covering the middle, arrange for some place near the edge of the campground to stash the cover when I was off site, and walk my "horse" while on site (unless I could also figure a way to ride it with the cover on), always keep it covered or inside a tent, and do it until security says something. Then take it up with the autocrat again and stash it in my car if necessary.

Do you also have a cart or are you using panniers? We used to have a period style wheelbarrow that we would take with us to carry groceries on. Almost never brought the car on site except for set up and take down. (We also usually camped up on the tundra, so the distance was less of a problem.)



I'm associated with the Barony of Bergental.
Hey! Barony of Ponte Alto, here.
Bergental, eh. I used to know a lot of people from Carolingia, Concordia and from the Bridge. Still keep in touch with a few of them. One of my fencing students ended up near Worcester. HRM Olivia was my wife's apprentice.

Or, since you also have a car, maybe you could snag a parking space near the parking exit, and store your bike in the car. You'll never have to move your car and will have a quick way out.

I don't have a car. In fact, I can't get a driver's license due to a disability. That's why I am so sensitive to car bias. Telling someone doesn't have the option of driving that they are not a legitimate person because they aren't driving is very hurtful.

PS - Is the nearest grocery store still 15 miles away or has someone opened one closer?

Yeah, but there's a convenience store and farmstands pretty close by.

The horse idea is clever. I might work on it for future Pennsics but I can't do that now.

I don't have a cart but I will when I get some money.

Hey! Barony of Ponte Alto, here.
Bergental, eh. I used to know a lot of people from Carolingia, Concordia and from the Bridge. Still keep in touch with a few of them. One of my fencing students ended up near Worcester. HRM Olivia was my wife's apprentice.

Cool! Maybe we'll run into each other at an event some time. I just go by "Eli" in the SCA. I don't have a persona.

I have run into a problem and I was hoping I could get some advice on it. I belong to an organization called "The Society for Creative Anachronism". (Any other SCA participants here?) Every August, they have a two-week-long event at a campground in Pennsylvania which is attended by more than 10,000 people. The event has a policy that no bicycles (as well as skateboards and rollerblades) are to be ridden on the event site during the event. The use of motor vehicles is restricted (for good reason) but not completely banned. I feel that bicycles should have at least the same level of access as motor vehicles. I have tried to politely reason with the event coordinator to no avail. Have any of you dealt with vehicular discrimination in a private setting before? How did you handle it?

I have to admit, I agree with you. How do they expect people to get to some campground.. ride their steeds? Ride in an oxcart? Walk? I can understand not using bikes or rollerblades during the actual EVENT, but getting there? It's supposed to be "CREATIVE" anachronism... but if they can creatively allow for cars, they can certainly allow for bikes.

I don't have a car. In fact, I can't get a driver's license due to a disability. That's why I am so sensitive to car bias. Telling someone doesn't have the option of driving that they are not a legitimate person because they aren't driving is very hurtful.
If your are using a bike partly due to a disability, definitely insist on a secure bike lockup as an "equal accommodation" under the American with Disabilities Act (ADA). Your disability should be documentable and verifiable (doctor's letter might help), and one that might be covered under the ADA. (I'd ask what it was, but I don't want to be nosey.) Send a certified letter, but do it quick since you are running out of time. If the autocrat still refuses, ask them to check with coporate counsel on the laws regarding equal accommodations.
(Not a lawyer, but I am an architect and deal with ADA issues all the time.)

ps - my wife doesn't drive due to eyesight problems, so I understand your concerns.


I don't have a cart but I will when I get some money.
When you do get a cart, come up with a way of disguising it with a more "period" look. If you had a secure lock-up for your bike near troll you could walk to your campsite and pull the cart the rest of the way with your groceries. Saves a second trip out to lock the bike up again.
Where has your Barony put in for its campsite? Up on the tundra (guess they call it serengetti now) or down by the lake?

Cool! Maybe we'll run into each other at an event some time. I just go by "Eli" in the SCA. I don't have a persona.
I go by Master Niall Mckennett, or by my alternate persona Neil de Ferret (pronounced fair-RAY)
We don't travel for events much anymore. Usually do one a year and stay close to home. Need as many weekends as possible for biking. ;)


I have to admit, I agree with you. How do they expect people to get to some campground.. ride their steeds? Ride in an oxcart? Walk? I can understand not using bikes or rollerblades during the actual EVENT....
Actually, while on site most people DO walk. The main campground is only a mile+ across. As I said, cars are frowned upon but tolerated for a short time if someone need to get a heavy load to a campsite, for example 20 bags of ice or groceries for a 50 person campsite. Given the narrow, muddy, rutted and very busy roads, it is often easier to walk than drive. Several thousand pedestrians have the right-of-way and cars often have to go at walking pace.
And for the week of Pennsic, the actual event site starts where the parking lot ends. Everything within the campground.

This thread has brought back many, manh fond memories of my one and only Pennsic in 1992 (I think. Might have been '91). That was one of the best weeks ever. <whistful sigh....>

I'm sorry to hear there's some issue with having a bike there. I really hope that gets worked out for you.

Ahh...Pennsic. I'm not going this year - too many years in a row and I need a break.

One year I toyed with the idea of bringing my bike so I could train in the early morning hours. But then I thought about keeping the bike secure, and how much other stuff I have to haul, plus the fact that bikes are banned, and decided I'd just run around the lake instead.

I'm surprised they are being so difficult, since this is your actual means of transportation. Don't forget that the Autocrat changes every year. Have you tried the Coopers? They own the site and maybe they can help you out.

I'm always bothered by the number of cars that go through the site every day. I park my car after I unload and I don't retrieve it till I'm ready to go. I know people that make trips into town every day, and always seem to be driving to their camp site. I also see other camps where people keep their cars long after the time allotted for unloading. It's just part of Pennsic.