riding against traffic??

[savage24]

I cross the Missouri river on my commute and use a suitable bridge to do so (relatively good shoulders, 'share the road' signs posted). Many cyclist and pedestrians use this bridge. Twice in the last two weeks I have met a man on a road bike riding south on the northbound shoulder. The first time was a bit of a surprise as I was coming off of the bridge (downhill) at 30mph when he came around the the railing and started on to the approach to the bridge. I met him again yesterday morning, he was a little farther on to the bridge so he did not have the 'came out of nowhere' affect as the first time. Now that I know to watch for this guy, it's not a big deal, just another hazard (IMO) to deal with. I am curius how other BF members view riding against traffic?

[nova]

Dangerous pure and simple. Its not somethign a driver expects it gives you less time to react etc

[markf]

I've always understood that riding against the flow of traffic increases the odds of the cyclist getting hit by a car, and we all know who's going to lose in that scenario.

Anytime cyclists start writing their own traffic laws other road users get annoyed, and justifiably so.

[mechBgon]

If it becomes a frequent event, consider tipping off the police so they can issue him a warning. That's not safe for him, for you, or for the other people on the road.

[John E]

If he were a hazard only to himself, I would ignore him. However, under this and similar scenarios, the contraflow cyclist does pose a significant hazard to everyone else, and he needs to be educated. Try stopping in the bike lane and blocking his progress, forcing him into oncoming traffic; maybe he'll get the message.

[TRaffic Jammer]

he's a fool, and should be corrected before he gets someone killed

[Neist]

Its one of the easiest ways if you want to die.

That, and riding on sidewalks carelessly (If your overly cautious sidewalks are possible, but you'd be going so slow you might as well be walking..).

[N_C]

Read this thread to know how a lot of us feel about it: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=205363

The OP is an advocate for riding against traffic though. Hopefully the guy you encounter is only uneducated & not like-minded. Perhaps you could politley engage in conversation with him & kindly advise him as to the rules of the road & how dangerous it is to ride against traffic.

[EnigManiac]

Use your new AirZounds on him right when you are side by side and there's no motor vehicles present. Maybe he'll get the hint. And, you would be justified in sounding a warning.

[sbhikes]

Maybe he'll win the Darwin award.

[DieselDan]

Dangerous and illegal. You'll get a $72 ticket for it here. I sometimes will cuss them out.

[poopncow]

Is this like the walk against traffic advice we were given as kids? there is some merit, but only if the other walkers and bicycles were doing the same.

[tomg]

recently, i have welcomed them by a "hi", then promptly "wrong way". i have noticed an apparent increased "correct" direction (with other traffic) bicyclists.
don't know long term effect, if any, but one driver at a time...is all you can do sometimes!

[bragi]

If he were a hazard only to himself, I would ignore him. However, under this and similar scenarios, the contraflow cyclist does pose a significant hazard to everyone else, and he needs to be educated. Try stopping in the bike lane and blocking his progress, forcing him into oncoming traffic; maybe he'll get the message.

I agree the man's a menace, but I wouldn't advocate killing him by forcing him into oncoming traffic, either...

[ReptilesBlade]

I only ride against traffic when I am on the sidewalks with no peds, if I am in the roads I am going the same way as everyone else in the rightmost lane.

[nedgoudy]

I shout and rant at the
people that do that. I
use the F word, whatever
I feel like doing. And once
in a while I will STOP right
in their path an explain to
them how they could kill
someone doing that at night,
since these are the same donkeys
that don't use lights at night IME.

Unfortunately, most of the people
that do it in my neighborhood are
illegal mexicans who don't speak
English, or some of the Foreign
students from the local JC that
are Indonesian, Chinese or Japanese
and don't speaky too much either.

Very distressing. I just holler at
em and say a little pray for them
and me and go on.

[savage24]

I may say "wrong way!" as we meet sometime if I'm in the mood, but I generally believe that attempts to 'educate' people in circumstances like this are futile. I believe Heinlein said it best: "Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig". He appears to be in his 50's (old enough to know better) and an experienced rider; he holds his line and watches where he's going. Also, judging from appearance (I know, I probably shouldn't...:o ) I would not be surprised if he lives under the bridge, or he could be an eccentric millionaire or maybe a college professor - picture a giant garden gnome on an old road bike.:D

He may in fact become a Darwin Award candidate someday, but I won't let him involve me in that process!

[Tskuller]

Is this the Heart of America bridge that you guys are crossing paths on?

[sunofsand]

Unless the guy causes an accident
I don't care.
I do it sometimes. I'm not blind, stupid, dead or emotionally scarring people.
Is this guy seriously a hazard or is this behavior something you've been warned of since you were 10 years old?
When I do things such as this I am extremely aware of my surroundings. I know how fast I have to be and exactly where I need to place myself in order to be completely safe doing it. I know where people are. I take responsibilty for other lives. I don't put another into a situation where they have to be perfect in order to stay safe and whole. Maybe some are simply not able to calculate these types of things while on the move as easily as others, I don't know. Timing is a skill and some just don't have it. With great timing etc you can do things others are scared of trying. "Timing" also affords one the ability to determine whether or not another is a careless prick or a harmless someone with the same skills as you looking for a challenge.

While you say that this rider is a top candidate for a Darwin Award
They may just be asserting their dominance over you.

In a typical ride along city streets it may scare you if another rider were to weave his way through a handful of other tightly packed cyclists at a high rate of speed just to pass
You may want to shout obscenities

Better athletes would see it as some great sh*t


No one is above the law

IMO
Many laws are there for the weakest links that otherwise could meet with injury and/or death if left to themselves for very long. Imagine how dangerous a world this would be if all those stop signs at extremely busy intersections were removed. Not dangerous at all unless you have a bunch of morons at the wheel.

So, go ahead and shout your warnings. That's a nice, caring thing to do for another person who may just not know any better. I'd probably just wave back.

Funny how you come into this forum asking for "other" BF members opinions, though.
It's pretty likely that the ones you'll see post the most in here are of the same mindset as you.

[savage24]

Is this the Heart of America bridge that you guys are crossing paths on?

Yep, sure is!

[savage24]

[QUOTE=sunofsand]
Is this guy seriously a hazard or is this behavior something you've been warned of since you were 10 years old?
As I stated in my original post: now that I know to watch for him, it's not a big deal, just another hazard (much like drivers approaching an intersection were I have the right of way; they are a hazard until we have made eye contact).

While you say that this rider is a top candidate for a Darwin Award
They may just be asserting their dominance over you.
Yes, but there is a fine line between the two. Many Darwin winners were displaying their superior abilities and prowess at the time they became winners.:D

Many laws are there for the weakest links that otherwise could meet with injury and/or death if left to themselves for very long.
I agree, and think it is a shame; there is way too much sludge in the gene pool! Actually, many laws and rules are made not to protect the weak links; but to protect the rest of us from the weak links. This only works when the weak links obey the laws and rules.

Imagine how dangerous a world this would be if all those stop signs at extremely busy intersections were removed. Not dangerous at all unless you have a bunch of morons at the wheel.
Try walking on the Country Club Plaza in Kansas City sometime.

So, go ahead and shout your warnings. That's a nice, caring thing to do for another person who may just not know any better. I'd probably just wave back.
"Never try to teach a pig to sing...."

Funny how you come into this forum asking for "other" BF members opinions, though.
It's pretty likely that the ones you'll see post the most in here are of the same mindset as you.
I am relatively new to bicycle commuting (did a little last year, doing more this year), this is the first time I have encountered a cyclist riding against traffic. It seemed unnecessary and dangerous to me, but I'm new at this and don't know everything, so I asked for opinions from others. What's wrong with that?

[M3ta7h3ad]

I'm guilty of it at times, but it tends to be when I've messed up and cant get on the other side of the road due to traffic. At those points its not long until I hop up onto the pavement and dismount to cross the damn road to have another go at it.

Perhaps the guy is following the advice given in the UK Highway Code, Always walk facing traffic. (its why bloody joggers are constantly in your way on bike paths! :D lol damn things! :P) I'd yell a warning if I was arsed, if not then I'd just ignore him. He'll learn his lesson at somepoint im sure.

[tequila sanchez]

i live in jersey, and theres this one street that i have to walk to get home from the train station sometimes. well, theres this bridge for cars (duh) that gets you over the tracks than run underneath, and the bridge has only 1 'real' sidewalk, so often time you'll see people and bicycles going on there. because the lane that is closest to that sidewalk is only one lane, its rather risky to ride on the street, so people will ride on the sidewalk. often times you'll see people being smart and walking their bike over though, so props to them.

as for the op's question, when i run, i do against traffic, so that i can see what's coming at me. but usually i actually end up going with traffic. when it comes to riding i always do 'with traffic', unless i end up on the wrong side b/c of traffic, like someone else posted here. i guess that if you cant 'teach' that guy to use the correct side, and it doesnt bug u incredibly, then just deal with it? gl

[SamHouston]

Better athletes would see it as some great sh*t



Tell me how it makes you a better athelete again?

[Roody]

I got jinxed reading this thread. Last night a cyclist (adult, so-called) in a midblock rideout almost creamed me. Less than half a block later I moved out into the inner lane to avoid a second cyclist (forty-something) who was riding the wrong way.

[sunofsand]

[QUOTE=sunofsand]
Is this guy seriously a hazard or is this behavior something you've been warned of since you were 10 years old?
As I stated in my original post: now that I know to watch for him, it's not a big deal, just another hazard (much like drivers approaching an intersection were I have the right of way; they are a hazard until we have made eye contact).

While you say that this rider is a top candidate for a Darwin Award
They may just be asserting their dominance over you.
Yes, but there is a fine line between the two. Many Darwin winners were displaying their superior abilities and prowess at the time they became winners.:D

Many laws are there for the weakest links that otherwise could meet with injury and/or death if left to themselves for very long.
I agree, and think it is a shame; there is way too much sludge in the gene pool! Actually, many laws and rules are made not to protect the weak links; but to protect the rest of us from the weak links. This only works when the weak links obey the laws and rules.

Imagine how dangerous a world this would be if all those stop signs at extremely busy intersections were removed. Not dangerous at all unless you have a bunch of morons at the wheel.
Try walking on the Country Club Plaza in Kansas City sometime.

So, go ahead and shout your warnings. That's a nice, caring thing to do for another person who may just not know any better. I'd probably just wave back.
"Never try to teach a pig to sing...."

Funny how you come into this forum asking for "other" BF members opinions, though.
It's pretty likely that the ones you'll see post the most in here are of the same mindset as you.
I am relatively new to bicycle commuting (did a little last year, doing more this year), this is the first time I have encountered a cyclist riding against traffic. It seemed unnecessary and dangerous to me, but I'm new at this and don't know everything, so I asked for opinions from others. What's wrong with that?


Good enough.
"Many Darwin winners were displaying their superior abilities and prowess at the time they became winners."
Funny reply
but I don't agree.
Those are the ones who think they have it but in reality never did.

[sunofsand]

Tell me how it makes you a better athelete again?

Better athletes are able to recognize skill in others while other
lesser athletes
who may not be so talented
only see risky behavior.

I didn't say anything about how attempting something makes you a better athlete
I said those that are able to do that something are the better athletes.

I would never recommend to a lesser athlete anything outside of the box.


Not exactly sure what you meant by "it"

[SamHouston]

So when this fellow crosses a tremendous bridge against the flow of traffic, say as the OP describes in the first encounter, surprisingly from a blind turn, how is it possible that superior atheletic ability will prevent the cyclist he surprises, whose right of way he's interfered with, from being involved in an accident due to his actions?

It doesn't matter at all how good he thinks he is if what he does causes an accident does it? Excepting cyclists with telepathic abilities, of course, that risk he's taking is with someone else when he encounters them regardless of his ability to avoid an accident himself. The telepathic ones couls send out some sort of warning vibe I'd guess, don't you think?:D

[SingingSabre]

I hit a wrong way cyclist tonight on my way home from fire practice. I was riding my Xtracycle loaded with about 40lbs of crap (fire eating torches, tripod, water bottles, fuel container, cameras, etc.). 40 extra lbs plus a lot of momentum (I was probably going about 15-18mph) and a 15" longer wheelbase.

I kept to the outside of the lane; I'm not putting myself closer to traffic for some nudnik riding the wrong way. He apparently didn't want to get closer to traffic, either.

I won.

My arm is a bit sore from the minor collision, but I know two massage therapists who owe me treatments.

[sunofsand]

So when this fellow crosses a tremendous bridge against the flow of traffic, say as the OP describes in the first encounter, surprisingly from a blind turn, how is it possible that superior atheletic ability will prevent the cyclist he surprises, whose right of way he's interfered with, from being involved in an accident due to his actions?

It doesn't matter at all how good he thinks he is if what he does causes an accident does it? Excepting cyclists with telepathic abilities, of course, that risk he's taking is with someone else when he encounters them regardless of his ability to avoid an accident himself. The telepathic ones couls send out some sort of warning vibe I'd guess, don't you think?:D

I'm only saying that some of the time the guy you believe had no way of seeing you
did indeed see you

You bring up telepathy. I'm sure you've heard that word tossed around during sporting events? Almost is.
I could throw a ball directly over your head from 30 feet away and it would probably piss you off eventhough you were never in any danger of being hit. In order to do stuff like that you have to KNOW what is going to happen in that next instant for it to work
Being responsible is what keeps you from trying those things when you are unsure of the outcome.


No, if the guy causes an accident than he's an idiot. If the guys actions cause another to do anything that they wouldn't have done otherwise
the guy is an idiot.
If the guy does something that only after he is long gone makes you wonder about what could have happened if you had seen him just a split second earlier
the guy is just better than you and you're crying over it.

[bentstrider]

From the few riders I've encountered out here, their excuse is that they're watching for cars trying to hit them. I could understand some of that, I used to "wrong-way" for the exact same reason.
Only reason I stopped doing so was for the fact that it was dorky-looking, and I figured an impact from behind was more survive-able than a "head-on".
I usually respond to these folks with the above piece of advice and to also get a mirror if they're so scared of that type of thing.

[chinitonorte]

I only warn children.

The others get the message when I switch to the drops, extend my elbows, and hold my line. Dirt or traffic, your choice.

[slagjumper]

Nothing wrong with riding the wrong way if the road has no fast,blind turns, no intersections, no driveways and no cars. But on the other 99.999% of the roads it is a foolish thing to do. I think that many who do this do not know better and should be educated.

[TRaffic Jammer]

I think an elbow would learn him.

[cc_rider]

Is he riding the wrong way for a short distance (only the bridge and then some) or does he do it for a long distance?
If only for a short distance, he may not want to cross traffic only to cross back over.

The few times I choose to ride wrong way on a shoulder are to avoid crossing a 4 or 6 lane highway, only to have to cross back again to the original side a few hundred feet or yards farther on. Or I might ride the wrong way a short distance to get to an intersection with signals, instead of crossing mid-block. I make a judgement call that crossing heavy traffic twice at uncontrolled intersection is more dangerous than a short ride the wrong way. Just have to do it in as safe a manner as possible.

[SamHouston]

I'm only saying that some of the time the guy you believe had no way of seeing you
did indeed see you

You bring up telepathy. I'm sure you've heard that word tossed around during sporting events? Almost is.
I could throw a ball directly over your head from 30 feet away and it would probably piss you off eventhough you were never in any danger of being hit. In order to do stuff like that you have to KNOW what is going to happen in that next instant for it to work
Being responsible is what keeps you from trying those things when you are unsure of the outcome.


No, if the guy causes an accident than he's an idiot. If the guys actions cause another to do anything that they wouldn't have done otherwise
the guy is an idiot.
If the guy does something that only after he is long gone makes you wonder about what could have happened if you had seen him just a split second earlier
the guy is just better than you and you're crying over it.

That's still entirely centric and doesn't account for road users/peds beyond the wrong-way rider itself. How can the rider KNOW what the reactions of those he encounters will be?

[chipcom]

he's a fool, and should be corrected before he gets someone killed

Maybe some corrective glasses, like yours? :p

[TRaffic Jammer]

Maybe some corrective glasses, like yours? :p

:lol: you know it

[Roody]

Well many of us aren't strong enough (or brutish enough) to kick the *** of every wrong way cyclist. Most WW riders in my area are young and pretty thuggish looking.

Also, many of us do not view our riding as an athletic endeavor. We are just trying to get to work on time, or whatever. We don't play chicken with other cyclists, and especially not with cars.

You know, there are reasons that we have traffic laws, and other laws. One reason is so that we don't have to turn every encounter into a physical duel. Another reason is to facilitate efficient travel. A third reason is to protect those who are physically weaker from idiotic wannabe thugs like some of the WW riders (and like a couple of the people posting on this thread).

[Keith99]

Nothing wrong with riding the wrong way if the road has no fast,blind turns, no intersections, no driveways and no cars. But on the other 99.999% of the roads it is a foolish thing to do. I think that many who do this do not know better and should be educated.

AND a wide enough shoulder to allow riders going both ways to pass eachother while staying well clear of car traffic. I know I've seen that somewhere, but it might have been a dream.

[joejack951]

Two thoughts from this thread.

1. Does anyone else notice the correlation between bike lanes and wrong way riders?

2. Why do those who encounter wrong way riders in a bike lane see leaving the bike lane to merge with traffic the same as jumping off a bridge? Unless you came upon a wrong way rider by complete surprise, it would seem that you'd have plenty of time to signal, merge, and avoid the WWR. I see a WWR as nothing more than an obstruction in my path which I would take the same avoidance measures for (granted the WWR makes the time to react shorter but by no means impossible).

The times I have passed WWRs going my way (on the opposite side of the road) I have reminded them to ride with traffic. Those who I encounter going against my direction get a hand pointing to the opposite side of the road. Some listen, some don't. I've never re-encountered any of the WWRs though.

[sunofsand]

That's still entirely centric and doesn't account for road users/peds beyond the wrong-way rider itself. How can the rider KNOW what the reactions of those he encounters will be?

I would concede that that percentage of people riding the wrong way only for the athletic challenge of doing so is fairly small
but it exists, I'm sure.
The game is not chicken. Responsible people take into account the safety of all.
Riding the wrong way becomes much more of an agility and mental conditioning type thing. You only have a fairly small window of opportunity to make it into the spot before the other rider and pass them before they have any real response to you.
You know what another is going to do (what kind of mental state the person is in) through careful observation. I cannot explain that any better. That type of knowledge, however, is what seperates the average from the more elite. Good athletes can "thread the needle" where as others simply fail.

I'll give an easy example.
Quarterback sees a receiver down field and it appears that he is open
Almost instanteously the QB scans for defenders watching him and if any of them are that aware to both the ball and receiver he is ghosting
The QB won't pass to the receiver. If he does he stands the good chance of throwing an interception or getting the pass deflected.
It matters not how many other defenders are around the receiver if none of those defenders are aware of what you're doing. You can thread the needle right between them without risking anything.

You're probably now going to ask how many of the greatest QB's have had a 100% completion percentage.
None.
I'm aware that at some point you will probably/most likely make a mistake no matter how good you are.

You can't avoid mistakes no matter where you're riding, though.
Mistakes are part of life. Quite frankly, if you expect to be 100% safe at all times
you have no business being outside.
If you cannot forgive an otherwise clean rider/pedestrian/driver/mother/father/day care worker/whatever
for their exceedingly rare mistakes
s a person you basically suck ass.



anyway
I've been "beaten" this way by someone who was just more alert than me at the time. If I was alert enough I would have seen them at the moment they saw me. If eye-contact is made you cannot risk any type of involvement with that rider because they are now trying to avoid you. You have to wait for them to pass. You neither "win" or become an "idiot" by waiting for the path to clear.
I have to slow way down or even stop much more than I'd like to just because some people are just as aware as I am.
I find it comforting/reassuring when someone sees me before I would expect them to.
You still have to watch for idiots who believe they own the road at the time or whatnot and are oblivious to the outside world, sure.
That's not going to change, though.

I'm only saying that
sometimes
it isn't nearly as dangerous as you thought it was.

[SamHouston]

No offense but that's a terrible example. Everyone on the field is playing the game probably by the rules but certainly in a controlled enviroment, and aware of the risks. A wrong way rider intentionally dusting it up is doing the opposite with players that aren't playing.

[sunofsand]

LOL

It's a safe ride when the other cyclists don't know that they are in the middle of a game.
What you don't know can't hurt you kinda thing.
The only person that has to be aware of the risks is the person about to attempt the wrong-way ride.