Classic & Vintage - Vintage Touring Frames

I just discovered that the rear triangle on my 1989 Cannondale Touring bike is tweaked. I discovered this after I had everything ready and took her for her maiden voyage...

Which vintage frames would have the right threading etc to be able to shift over my components.

It is an 18 speed, 126 mm rear spacing, 1" threaded headset, and I am not sure about the BB. I would actually be looking for a frame, fork, headset and possibly BB and transferring over as much as possible.

My test ride went beautifully except for a little tweaking needed on the shifting, and the tire rubbing because of the tweaked rear triangle... I just realized that the tweaked triangle could be impacting my shifting too...

In making suggestions about which frames I should be on the lookout for, please take into account that I need strength, because I weigh 300 pounds... so a nice light 532 frame may not be the right answer until I lose about 100 pounds.

I just picked up a Nishiki Riviera GT that looks to be an excellent tourer. Everything is standard on it, with an English BB. Everything from your Cannondale should transfer over and it should ride a bit nicer for ya.

I just discovered that the rear triangle on my 1989 Cannondale Touring bike is tweaked. I discovered this after I had everything ready and took her for her maiden voyage...



Why not tweak it back to true? Isn't it steel?

Plan B might be a Nashbar touring frame and fork, about $180 less coupons right now.
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Tweaked rear triangle? If you mean you think it's bent and out of alignment, that's almost impossible with a Cannondale aluminum frame. Steel frames can bend and take a set; with an aluminum frame, if it hasn't cracked, it's almost certainly still straight. Before you take any drastic and costly steps to replace it, take it to a shop and get an experienced mechanic to check the alignment. And before you do that, check to make sure the wheel's axle is fully installed in the dropouts and that the wheel is true and centered correctly in the frame. I suspect you'll find that the problem, if there is a problem, is something other than the frame.

FYI - Forget about the imaginary superiority of the ride of steel bikes. Steel bike tubing and frame designs evolved in Europe for use by racers who rarely weighed over 160 pounds or so. I sold a Cannondale touring bike to a guy your size in 1988. He told me it was the first bike he'd ridden that didn't feel like overcooked spaghetti under him. He told me, "You get any other big guys in here - tell them to get Cannondales." He was still riding it the last time I saw him, 10 years later.

I also seriously doubt it could be tweaked, a problem with finding another touring frame is that I think there were fewer available by 1989 and it depends what kind of cantilevers are on it. The old ones had the posts mounted closer to the rim though I have heard of people putting newer cantilevers like the tektros on without problems.. Anyway.. Miyata 1000! Sweet bikes.

Hi,
you will just have to shop around. I suggest checking ebay for another cannondale. I got an early 80's Fuji a couple years ago, the Touring 4 or some such thing.
It was just too wimpy for my weight, and I weigh a little less than you; not as much less as I would like to.

Anyway, I got lucky today, I picked up a Bridgestone T700 which looks like a mid 80's tourer, and it looks ruggeder than the Fuji. The Fuji was always kinda
small on me anyway.

Specialized made a nice tourer in the early 90's if you can find it; I think it would do the job. You could also look for the Bridgstone XO series. They are rugged.

Good luck, this could take a while

Before you take any drastic and costly steps to replace it, take it to a shop and get an experienced mechanic to check the alignment. And before you do that, check to make sure the wheel's axle is fully installed in the dropouts and that the wheel is true and centered correctly in the frame.

Thanks for the advice. The person I got a second opinion from when I noticed the problem generally works with steel, but as far as I know, he does know frames and alignment:

http://bicycleframes.com/

:D

BTW - I have seen a few of his bikes, and they look at least as sweet in person. They may not be vintage, but he builds a classic frame!

Rich did a quick tweaking of the rear dropouts to make sure they were parallel, and noted that the wheel does need a little truing, but it is definitely centered between the seat stays and off-center between the chain stays. He said if it was dishing, it would be off center for both... He played with the wheel placement, and if I don't seat the left side completely, I can get it closer to centered (not quite right, but no rubbing) He did the tweaking in the parking lot for free... so he didn't actually do a full alignment check... but he could tell. I need to remember tonight to ask him about his beer preference when I check on my new headset for a different bike.

I will be taking a closer look at home tonight to see if there is any cracking or any other visible sign of trauma. The rear axle doesn't seem to have any issues, but I will try to determine where the issue truly is.

I know that when people talk about cold setting, that they limit their discussion to steel, so I was surprised to find an issue on this aluminum frame... but also knew that simply bending it back isn't an option either.

Also, at least one person in the thread mentioned cantilevers, and just to clarify, this particular bike has caliper brakes. If I do end up trying to swap the frame, I have no real attachment to the current brakes. They are pretty nice single pivot Diacompe calipers, even though based on the rear hanger, I think it originally came with center pull brakes. They are the one component I still need to upgrade whether I change the frame or not... Either to cantilever (if I switch to a frame that will use them) or dual pivot calipers.

And just in case anyone thinks it may not be a touring bike because of the lack of cantilevers (which have been on every other Cannondale touring bike I have seen) it does have a third set of water bottle bosses under the down tube and has a fork ready for a low-rider rack...

If I see no signs of cracking when I look tonight, would there be anyone that would suggest that I still not ride the frame, assuming that with a shim in the drop out I can make the alignment acceptable? I feel a little more confident with the problem being in the rear triangle than if it was with the front of the frame or forks... is this misplaced confidence?

As far as cause, is there a chance that it was just manufactured crooked? Did Cannondale have any quality control issues in the late 80s?

If I see no signs of cracking when I look tonight, would there be anyone that would suggest that I still not ride the frame, assuming that with a shim in the drop out I can make the alignment acceptable? I feel a little more confident with the problem being in the rear triangle than if it was with the front of the frame or forks... is this misplaced confidence?

As far as cause, is there a chance that it was just manufactured crooked? Did Cannondale have any quality control issues in the late 80s?

It sounds as if Rich the framebuilder confirmed that there's a legitimate alignment issue. Quality control was an issue with some Cannondale production runs in the 80s. It took them a while to work out a good heat treatment procedure. Some of the bikes they sold back then had visibly wavy frame tubes. I remember the sales rep explaining to me that even though the frames looked strange, the alignment was spot on; still, a few with alignment less than perfect may have squeaked through. Your frame may have been manufactured in one of those production runs.

Are there any Cannondale dealers near you? The bike is probably as safe to ride as it ever was, but if it were my bike, I'd take it to a Cannondale dealer and have the alignment checked carefully. If there is a real problem, the dealer may want to keep the bike at the shop so that the Cannondale rep can take a look at it. If you'd rather not have to leave the bike there for an extended period, the dealer can probably tell you when the sales rep is scheduled to visit the shop next so that you don't have to leave the bike for more than a day. I don't know how far Wilkes-Barre is from Cannondale's Pennsylvania factory (if they're still in Pennsylvania), but you might consider taking the bike to the factory so that they can check it out.

If nothing else, it'll be interesting to hear how they handle what sounds like an arguably minor manufacturing alignment problem on an 18-year-old bike. Warranty frame replacement? Discounted replacement? Your Cannondale came with a lifetime warranty, and if you're the original owner, the warranty is still good. It's a question of interpretation: do minor alignment problems, as opposed to failure under conditions of normal use, constitute a warranty issue, i.e., a manufacturing defect? I hope you keep us informed about what happens next: this is interesting stuff.

Thanks for the interesting idea... Unfortunately, I am not the original owner, so warrantee is not applicable, but it would be interesting to see what the Cannondale rep would have to say. I just noticed their frame exchange program, but once again, it is only available to the original owner.

An interesting coincidence... The closest Cannondale dealer happens to be the shop that Rich's partner used to own... They have relocated since Tom owned it, but they are still within 10 miles. It is a small world. :D

new touring frame?
a few choices come to mind
Trek 520 or 720
Koga Miyata

Marty

Thanks for the interesting idea... Unfortunately, I am not the original owner, so warrantee is not applicable, but it would be interesting to see what the Cannondale rep would have to say. I just noticed their frame exchange program, but once again, it is only available to the original owner.

Okay, but we're not beaten yet. That Cannondale dealer ought to be willing to go ahead and do the frame alignment check as well as checking the wheel with a dishing tool, especially if you mention that Rich the frame builder (thanks for the link to his website, by the way) said that he thinks there's an alignment problem that was built into the frame at the factory. The sales rep (if the rep ends up seeing the bike) may not even care whether you're the original owner or not if the problem is interesting enough.

Since you didn't say otherwise, I take it that you checked the frame, dropouts, etc., and saw no evidence of cracks or other structural problems. If that's correct and Cannondale ends up backing away from this one, your idea of working with the dropouts to slightly reposition the axle sounds like a good solution to the alignment problem. The Cannondale dealer may be able to suggest a minimally invasive approach.

I hope it all works out for you. A lot of people love their steel bikes, but even moderately lightweight steel bikes are built a little too close to the limits of the material's strength for a guy as big and strong as you. ("Overcooked spaghetti," as the big guy I mentioned in my first post said.) Cannondales of the vintage of your bike were arguably overbuilt for smaller guys (although even at 130 lbs I prefer the handling and tracking of my aluminum bikes over my high-end steel bikes), but you've got what may be exactly the right bike for your purposes, and it's worth it to do what it takes to keep it on the road.

One more idea - ask the Cannondale dealer whether the Cannondale tech manuals say anything about retrofitting a replaceable right rear dropout for a frame as old as yours. The dealer can call the factory if the manuals don't answer the question. If it can be done, an accurately positioned replaceable dropout would almost certainly solve the alignment problem. It's a long shot, but you never know.

Trakhak,

I didn't look as closely as I had hoped last night due to some other things consuming my time, but after a quick look I didn't notice any cracking... So I am not going to panic about the strength, but might see what I can do with some of your other ideas.

I was interested in some little rivets I saw near the rear dropout... I had seen them before, but not given them much attention due to the fact that I didn't notice the alignment issue before. I don't know that I would have given them much credence now except for your comments. Perhaps a rear dropout replacement may do the trick... if available.

I will go visit my Cannondale dealer in the next week or two.

I definitely liked the bikes ride when I rode it... So I seem to be drawn to Cannondales as I search eBay for potential replacements.

Since I don't necessarily need the longer chain stays for heel clearance if I don't run panniers... Does anyone know which Cannondale frames from the 27" wheeled era may be appropriate for a large rider? Or are the longer chain stays part of what provides the ride I like?