Road Cycling - American Classic magnesium Race wheels: What's the verdict?

Looking for some ultra light wheels for a 17 mile TT hill-climb in September. Don't really feel like forking out the price of my bike for Zipp carbons...:(

Anybody have any experience with these American Classic magnesium wheels? Any flexiness at 1230 grams?
http://www.amclassic.com/images/Wheels_Magnesium.jpg

http://www.amclassic.com/Wheels_Magnesium.html

I was at Interbike last fall and visited the American Classic booth where they were featuring these wheels. I got to talk with a couple of people who had ridden on them extensively. Granted, the AC people probably aren't completely unbiased. However, they did seem honest and straightforward about the advantages/disadvantages. PM me if you would like more info.

I was at Interbike last fall and visited the American Classic booth where they were featuring these wheels. I got to talk with a couple of people who had ridden on them extensively. Granted, the AC people probably aren't completely unbiased. However, they did seem honest and straightforward about the advantages/disadvantages. PM me if you would like more info.
Just post it here, I'm sure other people would like to know too.

Ok, here's the gist of what I learned at Interbike and through talking with people who own these wheels:

(1) Yes, you do have to use special brakes pads. The wheels are shipped with the green Kool-stop pads which are used for ceramic rims.

(2) I spoke with a lady who does a lot of their wheelbuilding. She said the main reason for the "event use" labelling has to do with trueing issues. It's not the kind of wheel that you can ride day in and day out and be a heavier person and expect it to stay true. It won't. If you are small person, <150 lbs this is much less of an issue. I also spoke with a sales rep who rode the wheel 100-150 miles per week for about 3 months. He had to true it once every few weeks, but that was using it far beyond "event only". Other than that he said he did not have a problem with it.

(3) The wheel builder lady said that these are wheels that you should clean meticulously. That's the second reason why they are labelled "event only". If the roads are wet, have a ton of gunk on them, it can affect the ceramic coating or cause the surface to discolor.

On #3 if you think about it, there are some frames you can leave out in the rain, treat like crap and they will still run well and be strong as a tank. The AC mags are not like this. You have to take care of them. Clean them after every ride so you don't leave junk on them that will gum them up and wear out the coating prematurely.

(4) The wheelbuilding lady and salesperson said that they absorb vibration nicely when they road them and made comparisons with more traditional rims. The main advantage is getting this kind of ride quality for a more economical price compared with carbon.



Based on what I found from talking with people it seems like if you are well under the 170lb weight limit then the trueing is much less of an issue. I'm 5'3" and far less than that so the lady told me she didn't think trueing would be much of an issue at all even if I rode them regularly. Its more of an issue she said when you approach their rider weight limit. I have to think (and this is just my own opinion) that they probably had their lawyers involved with writing the statement. If you say nothing about "event only" and just bill it as a normal wheel, then you may have more people buying it, some well over 170 lbs and who will get frustrated having to true it so often. But if you add the disclaimer "event only" then people are more likely to think twice about how often they use it, saving you try trouble of lots of 170+ lb guys who use it 20 hours per week.

If I had carbon wheels, I'd only use them for specific events so the tradeoff for me would be price. the AC Mags I think are less expensive than more carbon wheelsets...and I think they have better durability than carbon also.

why do you need zipps?

http://www.neuvationcycling.com/wheels/c38.html

why do you need zipps?

http://www.neuvationcycling.com/wheels/c38.html


The Neuvation wheels I've seen scream 'cheesy' in a few respects. Just my impressions. One owner I spoke to seemed to indicate that his Neuvations weren't exactly the most bombproof wheels in the world. The wheels you linked to aren't cheap - $1200 or so. You can get Zipps for what, $1500-$1600? I think they're worth the premium, but that's me.

You sort of get what you pay for much of the time. My Mavic Ksyrium SL's and ES's weren't cheap, but they're light for bombproof clincher wheels (1500-1600 grams) - and you could drop them off the Empire State Building and they wouldn't need trueing.

By the way, I know several racing pals with Zipps and they swear by them.

how dare you...

The Neuvation wheels I've seen scream 'cheesy' in a few respects. Just my impressions. One owner I spoke to seemed to indicate that his Neuvations weren't exactly the most bombproof wheels in the world. The wheels you linked to aren't cheap - $1200 or so. You can get Zipps for what, $1500-$1600? I think they're worth the premium, but that's me.

You sort of get what you pay for much of the time. My Mavic Ksyrium SL's and ES's weren't cheap, but they're light for bombproof clincher wheels (1500-1600 grams) - and you could drop them off the Empire State Building and they wouldn't need trueing.

By the way, I know several racing pals with Zipps and they swear by them.

I've seen Zipps on the web for $1350. Best bet is to get them pro dealed :)

since when are zipps bombproof?
great way to hit a bump and lose $1500.

since when are zipps bombproof?
great way to hit a bump and lose $1500.

Do they have that much trouble regarding potholes? What's the deal with Zipp/pothole

I'm 6'2",195 lbs. I race on the Amer Classic mags and because I've gotten lazy, I've been riding them weekly-1200 miles and not one problem. No wobbles,truing issues and no corrsion. What a buy.
Whammer

You're buying a set of high-end wheels for one uphill TT - I hope you're good. The wheels won't make a shyte bit of difference unless you're a pro.

You're buying a set of high-end wheels for one uphill TT - I hope you're good. The wheels won't make a shyte bit of difference unless you're a pro.

Why do people make comments like that? Ignorance, I guess.

Weight has the same effect on every rider in an uphill TT. Reduce your weight by 1%, and you get nearly a 1% increase in speed. That's true, whether you're a weekend warrior or a Cat 1. Physics.

Why do people make comments like that? Ignorance, I guess.

Weight has the same effect on every rider in an uphill TT. Reduce your weight by 1%, and you get nearly a 1% increase in speed. That's true, whether you're a weekend warrior or a Cat 1. Physics.True, but unless you thought it would give you a shot at the podium would you fork over the extra cash?

True, but unless you thought it would give you a shot at the podium would you fork over the extra cash?

I'm guessing the prize money won't offset the wheel purchase either.

MacMan's point is pretty valid, though--if you have no excess body fat and can crank out a consistent, high wattage every time you hop on a bike (MacMan's definition of Pro, from what I can gather) then you might feel the advantage of light wheels, but for mere mortals there are so many other bigger factors than a couple hundred grams of rotating weight.

In most categories of amateur racing and especially 4/5, the primary limiter is the engine. I've gotten dropped by people on crap heavy bikes, and I've outsprinted and outclimbed guys rolling Zipps on my $300 1700g Eastons.

I'm 6'2",195 lbs. I race on the Amer Classic mags and because I've gotten lazy, I've been riding them weekly-1200 miles and not one problem. No wobbles,truing issues and no corrsion. What a buy.
Whammer

My engine specs are about the same as yours, and I don't think I'd ever have the courage to ride ANYTHING that has an advertised 170lb weight limit. I know there's some wiggle room, but racing? May God (or your all-powerful wheel preserver of your choice) ride with you. ;)

Why do people make comments like that? Ignorance, I guess.

Weight has the same effect on every rider in an uphill TT. Reduce your weight by 1%, and you get nearly a 1% increase in speed. That's true, whether you're a weekend warrior or a Cat 1. Physics.

TerryMorse...Can I be you? :D

I dont know if people know this, but magnesium is a very very hard material to deal with. Main reason...It is highly highly highly flammable.

I was talking to the INDY-fab guys when I went to the facctory and he told me the only problem with them making a mag frame is the fact that it is very flammable. Obvioucly welding it would be very hard, almost impossible. (im pretty sure thats what he said as far as the welding goes)

So really, I dont think I want something thats very flammable spinning very quickly under me.

I'm guessing the prize money won't offset the wheel purchase either.I don't think many of us on the forums are racing for the money. But I would guess there a few riders out there who would drop some cash just to get a win.

Why do people make comments like that? Ignorance, I guess.

Weight has the same effect on every rider in an uphill TT. Reduce your weight by 1%, and you get nearly a 1% increase in speed. That's true, whether you're a weekend warrior or a Cat 1. Physics.

Not an ignorant statement at all, he's completely right.

First, whats important is the combined weight of the bike and rider. There is no way you are going to get anywhere near 1% reduction in combined weight with a light set of wheels, absolutely impossible. And, unless the person is absolutely at his leanest, he can easily shed 10 times the weight savings of expensive wheels in body weight in preparing for an event. Physics and physiology.

Second, there are so many variables in a race that completely dwarf the infinitesmally tiny weight reduction advantage that light wheels give you. Get the wrong gear for 10 seconds, catch a gust of wind that someone else doesn't, and thats it, you blew any weight savings advantage from expensive wheels.

So advising the OP not to waste money on bling wheels is very good advice.

I dont know if people know this, but magnesium is a very very hard material to deal with. Main reason...It is highly highly highly flammable.

I was talking to the INDY-fab guys when I went to the facctory and he told me the only problem with them making a mag frame is the fact that it is very flammable. Obvioucly welding it would be very hard, almost impossible. (im pretty sure thats what he said as far as the welding goes)

So really, I dont think I want something thats very flammable spinning very quickly under me.


It's a magnesium alloy, and like the old NeXT magnesium computer cases, you'd have to put a LOT of heat to them to get them to do anything. Pure magnesium would oxidize and turn to dust very quickly.

It's a magnesium alloy, and like the old NeXT magnesium computer cases, you'd have to put a LOT of heat to them to get them to do anything. Pure magnesium would oxidize and turn to dust very quickly.

Yes that is true also.

So really, I dont think I want something thats very flammable spinning very quickly under me.

MTB forks have been using Mg in the lowers for years and I've never heard of any going up in flames. It's actually fairly difficult to light (try doing it with a match sometime.) It is, however, extremely reactive (like Al) and a challenge to weld.

Why do people make comments like that? Ignorance, I guess.

Weight has the same effect on every rider in an uphill TT. Reduce your weight by 1%, and you get nearly a 1% increase in speed. That's true, whether you're a weekend warrior or a Cat 1. Physics.

Please. The difference it makes at our level is innefectual.

I'm 6'2",203 lbs and I race on them-not one problem. I understand that in Novenber,AC will come out with a tubular version. They feel like being on air to some degree. I know at least a dozen others who run them including a few pros. All seem to like.
Whammer

I've seen Zipps on the web for $1350. Best bet is to get them pro dealed :)

here they are, for sale for just over $1200

zipp 404 link (http://www.bikeusa.com/MERCHANT2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MSGI&Product_Code=ZIPP404C-PR)

since when are zipps bombproof?
great way to hit a bump and lose $1500.

Who said Zipps are 'bombproof'? Cite the particular post. Or read them first, that might work.

Why do people make comments like that? Ignorance, I guess.

Weight has the same effect on every rider in an uphill TT. Reduce your weight by 1%, and you get nearly a 1% increase in speed. That's true, whether you're a weekend warrior or a Cat 1. Physics.




Please. The difference it makes at our level is innefectual.


Every pedal stroke has an acceleration component to it (listens to the wheels of a bike as someone drops you, especially if they are out of the saddle).

The usual argument for light wheels is that light wheels accelerate faster.

So, if you do, say, a 100 mile ride, you could generate over 30,000 pedal strokes. That's 30,000 little accelerations. If -your- wheels are 1 pound (about 453 grams) heavier than mine, than you are pushing that extra pound 30,000+ more times. If all else is equal, than who will do more work? Isn't energy conservation at the top of the list for endurance sports?

Please. The difference it makes at our level is innefectual.

What do you mean by ineffectual? Everbody benefits from lighter weight on an uphill TT; level of rider is irrelevant.

Drop weight of rider + bike by x%, get nearly an x% increase in uphill speed (rolling resistance doesn't change, but gravity resistance does).

I think the above opinion boils down to "overweight and out of shape" riders don't deserve to use their wallets to climb faster. To me, that's an elitist opinion.

A light bike makes a slow climber faster, and it makes a fast climber even faster still.

Edit: FWIW, welding magnesium isn't so bad, because it's done in an inert atmosphere. It's machining that's troublesome, because the shavings are so flammable.

Magnesium+stray cigarette= BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!

Magnesium+stray cigarette= BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!

No. Magnesium + citric acid (vinegar) = Hydrogen Gas + cigarette = BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!

Magnesium alloy + stray cigarette = Magnesium alloy + stray cigarette. Sorry to burst that bubble.

Magnesium+stray cigarette= BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!
Yeah, and don't forget, if you leave your Carbon Fiber bike out in the sun, it'll melt!:eek: :rolleyes:

Where do these people come up with this stuff??:D :D

I think the above opinion boils down to "overweight and out of shape" riders don't deserve to use their wallets to climb faster. To me, that's an elitist opinion.

Isn't it kind of anti-elitist, in the sense that we're encouraging the OP to take the less expensive and more effective road to weight savings and increased performance?

I don't think anyone's saying you can't or shouldn't buy light wheels, just that most of us (myself included) have other places where that money is better-spent. For instance, everyone complains about the cost of power meters, but most racers I know who own one say it's a better way to spend the cash than fancy wheels (and is usually cheaper).

It's just that 1% weight savings from spending a lot of cash on a wheel seems a bit misguided when you can save 2+% from losing a little weight, or get a big power increase from a beefed-up training regimen.

I can only speak for myself, but I wasn't trying to say "don't buy the wheels." I was just trying to support the idea that there are more effective ways to spend one's money if looking for a performance boost. I also recognize the real and placebo effects of riding nice equipment, so if that's what the OP wants to do then nobody's trying to stop him.

Yeah, and don't forget, if you leave your Carbon Fiber bike out in the sun, it'll melt!:eek: :rolleyes:

Where do these people come up with this stuff??:D :D

I think it all comes from the guy who explained all about the shrinking CO2 molecules in the CO2 thread. :D

LOL! How'd I miss THAT one?

LOL! How'd I miss THAT one?

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=227059&page=2

Post #28. :)

Their recent catalog has a 200 lbe rider weight.

Just recieved my 2009 mag AC tubulars will report my impressions once I get thyem rolling. I don't impress easily

I dont know if people know this, but magnesium is a very very hard material to deal with. Main reason...It is highly highly highly flammable.

I was talking to the INDY-fab guys when I went to the facctory and he told me the only problem with them making a mag frame is the fact that it is very flammable. Obvioucly welding it would be very hard, almost impossible. (im pretty sure thats what he said as far as the welding goes)

So really, I dont think I want something thats very flammable spinning very quickly under me.

And flammability has to do with bike wheels how .... ?

They're not elemental Mg for crying out loud. They are a magnesium alloy and I seriously doubt spontaneous combustion from braking friction is even on the list of things to worry about.

That said, AC customer service is definitely top notch.

They're not elemental Mg for crying out loud. They are a magnesium alloy and I seriously doubt spontaneous combustion from braking friction is even on the list of things to worry about.

That said, AC customer service is definitely top notch.

Ya never know ! Better safe than sorry ..... I'm scrapping my flammable rubber tires & tubes and going with metal rims only. Good enough for trains !

:trainwreck:

See comments in red from a long time owner before you shy away from these.

Ok, here's the gist of what I learned at Interbike and through talking with people who own these wheels:

(1) Yes, you do have to use special brakes pads. The wheels are shipped with the green Kool-stop pads which are used for ceramic rims. Or you can use the salmon pads

(2) I spoke with a lady who does a lot of their wheelbuilding. She said the main reason for the "event use" labelling has to do with trueing issues. It's not the kind of wheel that you can ride day in and day out and be a heavier person and expect it to stay true. It won't. If you are small person, <150 lbs this is much less of an issue. I also spoke with a sales rep who rode the wheel 100-150 miles per week for about 3 months. He had to true it once every few weeks, but that was using it far beyond "event only". Other than that he said he did not have a problem with it. Ive got over 3000 miles on my Mag 300s and never have had to true the front and have adjusted the back about 4 times. I weight 160#.
(3) The wheel builder lady said that these are wheels that you should clean meticulously. Again, not necessary, Ive had mine 3 years and dont ever wipe them down or give them any special care. They look the same as the day I got them. That's the second reason why they are labelled "event only". If the roads are wet, have a ton of gunk on them, it can affect the ceramic coating or cause the surface to discolor. It doesnt affect the ceramic.
On #3 if you think about it, there are some frames you can leave out in the rain, treat like crap and they will still run well and be strong as a tank. The AC mags are not like this. Yes they are! (I dont leave my bike out in the rain but it does get wet now and then.) You have to take care of them. Clean them after every ride so you don't leave junk on them that will gum them up and wear out the coating prematurely. Simply Not true.
(4) The wheelbuilding lady and salesperson said that they absorb vibration nicely when they road them and made comparisons with more traditional rims. The main advantage is getting this kind of ride quality for a more economical price compared with carbon.



Based on what I found from talking with people it seems like if you are well under the 170lb weight limit then the trueing is much less of an issue. I'm 5'3" and far less than that so the lady told me she didn't think trueing would be much of an issue at all even if I rode them regularly. Its more of an issue she said when you approach their rider weight limit. I have to think (and this is just my own opinion) that they probably had their lawyers involved with writing the statement. If you say nothing about "event only" and just bill it as a normal wheel, then you may have more people buying it, some well over 170 lbs and who will get frustrated having to true it so often. But if you add the disclaimer "event only" then people are more likely to think twice about how often they use it, saving you try trouble of lots of 170+ lb guys who use it 20 hours per week.

If I had carbon wheels, I'd only use them for specific events so the tradeoff for me would be price. the AC Mags I think are less expensive than more carbon wheelsets...and I think they have better durability than carbon also.

glad we cleared that up.

2.5 year gap and a 2.1 year gap in the same thread. epic.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=61004&utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=Google-Products-US

1380 grams, about half the price (normally around $1200 though), unbelievable ride quality, and mine have taken an absolute beating and still remain true as the day I bought them.

I'd stay away from magnesium wheels. There's probably a reason aluminum and carbon are the materials of choice for building rims.

Well heck, a really old thread.....I'm curious on how the guy did in the TT.

You can probably get around 1200g with a Kinlin XR200 rim, some weight weenie hubs, and CX-rays and still be around half the price.