Please visit and read the info on this site to decide what or how
you can survive the changes that loom large in our world today.

Lot's to read here so poke around.........

http://www.sustainableliving.info/fading_of_the_oil_economy_recession_overview.htm

Please......share this link with as many as you care to.

Do you have any information about what indivuals can do to prepare for this (rather dismal, at least for a awhile) future?

Do you have any information about what indivuals can do to prepare for this (rather dismal, at least for a awhile) future?

few ideas:
Personal: eliminate debts, and learn to live sustainably so it won't be such a shock when it becomes the only option. Keep a small "kitchen garden" and learn to grow fruit and vegetables and make preserves. It'll be a usefull skill.
Civic: pressure governments to invest in public transport, high density development, sustainable agriculture and sustainable power generation.
Social:talk publically about what you are doing.

These topics are why I come here.

few ideas:
Personal: eliminate debts, and learn to live sustainably so it won't be such a shock when it becomes the only option. Keep a small "kitchen garden" and learn to grow fruit and vegetables and make preserves. It'll be a usefull skill.
Civic: pressure governments to invest in public transport, high density development, sustainable agriculture and sustainable power generation.
Social:talk publically about what you are doing.

All good ideas.

Related to number 2: I have taken to a rather maverick habit that might be seen as "tinfoil hattish" or straight out of 1950s nuclear scare times: I buy canned foodstuffs with a long shelf-life (just about anything without a high acidic content, as over time it reacts with the metal in the can and spoils) and weekly bury 10 cans in the wilderness on my bike rides, encased in plastic bags and in various locations that I mark on a map - kind of like pirate treasure. Sounds drastic, but it's relatively cheap and if there's ever a serious crisis, I'll know where to go and I'll presumably be able to eat, albeit sparsely. Believe it or not, the idea was given to me by my scoutmaster in Boy Scouts, but I never took it seriously until a couple of years ago.

I'm moving to Thailand soon though, so I'll probably give the locations to my friend Jennifer.

Please visit and read the info on this site to decide what or how you can survive the changes that loom large in our world today.
http://www.sustainableliving.info/fading_of_the_oil_economy_recession_overview.htm


Great article. I believe firmly in everything said
on the page you suggested. It also confirms that
I am already busy getting prepared for such
eventualities. While I am 55 and may not experience
the worst of it, I am prepared to go Car Free in 18
months (probably less) and the only other thing I
really need to do is take up gardening and maybe
plant a few fruit trees in my backyard. That, and
maybe buy a goat for milk to drink. I have never
drank goats milk but imagine I can find it palatable
if it is the main alternative to starvation. :O)

Interesting read. I will be interested to see how it really pans out. I don't doubt there are going to be issues, there already are. I think I am better placed than a lot of people to handle something like this. Everything we own we own free and clear. We have the skills to be self sufficent (comes from years of choosing to live near the bottom of society;) ) and living in a country setting. Run a google search for "After Peak Oil" and you will read for days. I wonder how much is hype and how much is real. Remember Y2K? Personally I will prepare for some lean times ahead. A lot of the signs are already appearing.

Aaron:)

Do you have any information about what indivuals can do to prepare for this (rather dismal, at least for a awhile) future?

Move out of the country? It worked for me.

Move out of the country? It worked for me.

The crunch hasn't hit yet.

Do you have any information about what indivuals can do to prepare for this (rather dismal, at least for a awhile) future?

Yes, I do have one very good suggestion to help all here.

While there are many "End of Oil" books the best how to live a sustainable
life books ever written are the FOX FIRE series. These books are a collection
of old knowledge that was the way America lived before oil changed all our lives.
This series is a project to capture all ,or as much of, this everyday knowledge
that our grandparents lived by as a norm.

While this series of books provide much info the are still only books unless you
turn them into action.

http://www.foxfire.org/

I moved to the tropics... does that count? We also have enough land to be able to grow all our food (and we do)

We are working at using as little fuel as possible - our reforestation does require fuel currently - but we minimize it by never using a bigger vehicle than we need.

Often that vehicle is a ox for hauling logs.

Most of the time I use a bike for going between work and back. it is about 9 kilometers each way - but pretty rugged roads.

I moved to the tropics... does that count? We also have enough land to be able to grow all our food (and we do).

You're doing your part. Unfortunately the day may come when other people feel they need your land to produce their food.

Do you have any information about what indivuals can do to prepare for this (rather dismal, at least for a awhile) future?
The article made me shiver. I've been through the Soviet Union collapse and all the pictures are very realistic and predictable. There was no a safe harbour where you can wait out bad times. Whether you are working for goverment or private business and feel pretty secure - it's only temporary. Any asset you have might lose value at any time. The only asset that was never losing value was frendship. Friends and relatives were helping each other to go through hadrships, sharing money and helping to find jobs. Invest into friendship.

In the US depression, the US government handed out script. Do supermarkets accept script. I hope I do all I can to help out oil dependency. The car stays parked every possible moment. Commuting to work to the 2500 miles a year on my bike. There is a couple gallons. My wife has started using the bike for work/errands.
Living here in Europe for awhile, I find nationals seem to not get as upset about rising gas prices. Few drive anywhere like commuters do in the US. Gas here has always been treated like a luxury. Maybe that is why housing patterns are rational here.
The way US commuters drive hours to/from work. It is a crime against humanity.

Move out of the country? It worked for me.

+1!!!! :D

In the US depression, the US government handed out script. Do supermarkets accept script. I hope I do all I can to help out oil dependency. The car stays parked every possible moment. Commuting to work to the 2500 miles a year on my bike. There is a couple gallons. My wife has started using the bike for work/errands.
Living here in Europe for awhile, I find nationals seem to not get as upset about rising gas prices. Few drive anywhere like commuters do in the US. Gas here has always been treated like a luxury. Maybe that is why housing patterns are rational here.
The way US commuters drive hours to/from work. It is a crime against humanity.

Agreed.

Move out of the country? It worked for me.
+1!!!! :D

-1. When crisis hit you'd be the first target for people's anger and last to get a job.

If you read through the article they mention a few things that catch my eye:

"In the 70's a 5% shortfall in oil supply resulted in prices rising 400%. "

"In an slower developing supply:demand mismatch prices may only double, as they are coming off an already much higher baseline."

Let's take it for granted that supply may not be able to match demand. In this case a small (5%) increase in demand has a huge (100-400%) price signal. The corallary of this is that a small decrease in demand will have a huge influence on prices.

It is true that many of our necessities have their backing in cheap energy and and specifically cheap petroleum. However, to imagine that none of our demand is elastic is silly - only 5% of elastic demand is required to mute a price spike.

This was seen recently in the electricity shortage in California. The top 5% of electricity demand created huge price spikes that bankrupted utilities and caused brownouts and blackouts in the state. The solution - send the price signal to the consumer, so that they could decide to turn down their air conditioners based on price spikes, and other conservation measures.

While I agree that people will not be able to do without food - they will be able to trade in their SUV's for honda civics or whatnot if they feel it is worthwhile. At issue is not the price of oil or gasoline, it is what people are willing to pay for these things before they reduce their usage marginally. Current evidence suggests that people are willing to pay quite a bit more for gasoline before they even consider alternatives. This is because people have a lot of money relative to the price of gas/petroleum, and it really doesn't matter to them, they would rather spend an extra $50-$100 dollars a month at the gas pump rather than spending it at starbucks or the mall.

People choose what vehicles they own, they choose wether or not to own a vehicle, they choose where they want to live, they choose wether or not to use air conditioning, they choose wether or not they should use public transit, they choose wether or not to use efficient light bulbs, they choose wether or not to buy efficient appliances, and so on. I find it very difficult to believe that these choices don't amount to 5% of global demand (remember that 40% of oil use in north america is related to personal transportation - based on an average fleet that is as efficient as the model T ford - off the shelf technology is available to at least double if not quadruple the average fuel economy in north america).

China and many other countries currently subsidize petroleum use. China in particular is changing from an exporter to an importer of petroleum, as this continues, they will have to reduce the subsidy or get fried in terms of balance of trade.

The fact that there are people in the US discussing how to live car free demonstrates that it is possible, and that it is possible to reduce petroleum use.

The real issue is that by the wealthy bidding up the cost of petroleum for recreation (what other reason would people choose an inefficient vehicle/lifestyle over a more efficient one), the poor of the world will suffer. This will occur because the high cost of petroleum (price supported by discretionary spending on the whims of the wealthy) will increase the cost of necessities (food/basic transportation/etc) for which the poor pay a much greater fraction of their income.

My $0.02

-1. When crisis hit you'd be the first target for people's anger and last to get a job.

Germany isn't Russia.

Germany isn't Russia.
Certainly not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust

Certainly not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust[/URL]

Since you're such a fan of Wikipedia:


Joseph Stalin

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Stalin became general secretary of the Soviet Communist Party in 1922. Following the death of Vladimir Lenin, he prevailed over Leon Trotsky in a power struggle during the 1920s. In the 1930s Stalin initiated the Great Purge, a campaign of political repression, persecution, and killings that reached its peak in 1937.

Confiscations of grain and other food by the Soviet authorities under his orders contributed to a famine between 1932 and 1934, especially in Ukraine (see Holodomor), Kazakhstan and North Caucasus that may have resulted in millions of deaths. Many peasants resisted collectivization and grain confiscations, but were repressed, most notably peasants deemed "kulaks."[2]

Stalin's rule - reinforced by a cult of personality - was characterized by state terror, mass deportations and political repression, resulting in the death of millions of Soviet citizens. Stalin fought real and alleged opponents mainly through the security apparatus, such as the NKVD. Many of his victims died in the Gulags and as the result of deportations, while others were executed. Nikita Khrushchev, Stalin's eventual successor, denounced Stalin's rule and the cult of personality in 1956, initiating the process of "de-Stalinization" which later became part of the Sino-Soviet Split.

Move out of the country? It worked for me.
+1!!!!
-1. When crisis hit you'd be the first target for people's anger and last to get a job.
Germany isn't Russia
wikipedia yada yada....

Germany...Russia...? Wha...? I thought Filtersweep moved to Norway. Anyway CTAC makes a good point. New immigrants and "foreigners" can be the first to suffer in hard times. Anywhere.

yawn. This civilization still has several hundred years before its time is up.

In any case, in the event of total collapse of civilization, I know a little out of the way place that me and 20 of my good friends can go, and we all have the ability and equipment to live completely on our own. I suggest anyone who's really paranoid about this recession/end-of-the-world crap do the same.

Joseph Stalin

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And your point is?

I know a little out of the way place that me and 20 of my good friends can go, and we all have the ability and equipment to live completely on our own.

it's not at 'The Beach' with leonardo is it?

yawn. This civilization still has several hundred years before its time is up.

In any case, in the event of total collapse of civilization, I know a little out of the way place that me and 20 of my good friends can go, and we all have the ability and equipment to live completely on our own. I suggest anyone who's really paranoid about this recession/end-of-the-world crap do the same.

Dream on....are some of the 6 billion really not going to find and ruin your haven?

EDIT: ps. "'I'll let you be in my dream if I can be in yours'...I said that."
- Bob Dylan

The thing really had me at the end until the author talked about lasting change in the best case scenario, when the recession eases.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I assume that means we didn't really go into a prolonged depression in the first place. In which case no change would ever happen. It will be a "bump in the road", "part of the cycle", "a temporary change".

The thing really had me at the end until the author talked about lasting change in the best case scenario, when the recession eases.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I assume that means we didn't really go into a prolonged depression in the first place. In which case no change would ever happen. It will be a "bump in the road", "part of the cycle", "a temporary change".

Don't minumize the danger, mate. From your post it's clear that you "assume" that you will survive
the coming events. Clearly, false bravado and foolishness.

Don't minumize the danger, mate. From your post it's clear that you "assume" that you will survive
the coming events. Clearly, false bravado and foolishness.

"survive the coming events"? Is the internet your new cardboard sign? Come on.

http://www.spreadnegativity.com/Affirmations/cardboard-sign-project02.png

"survive the coming events"? Is the internet your new cardboard sign? Come on.


Your post will sort out all the foolhardy who seldom believe anything they do not want to comprehend. Leaves more room for those of us interested to prepare for whatever may come. Information is power
at times. Even mis-leading information.

I can't believe you really read the piece as all it does is detail what may happen not what will happen
as you suggest with your post. So no, the sky isn't falling. It's just an ongoing adjustment as nothing
ever remains the same for very long.

Your post will sort out all the foolhardy who seldom believe anything they do not want to comprehend. Leaves more room for those of us interested to prepare for whatever may come. Information is power
at times. Even mis-leading information.

I can't believe you really read the piece as all it does is detail what may happen not what will happen
as you suggest with your post. So no, the sky isn't falling. It's just an ongoing adjustment as nothing
ever remains the same for very long.


You said yourself "the coming events", meaning the events that ARE coming. I implied pretty clearly that I believe the chances of all of this happening are pretty slim. Were you one of the people who stocked up on MREs and bottled water in December 1999?


And as for my safe haven, it's 200 miles out of the nearest large city, and 9000 feet above sea level. Pretty sparsely populated, and if anyone wants to join my little commune, they can feel free. Assuming they can pull their weight, anyway.

And as for my safe haven, it's 200 miles out of the nearest large city, and 9000 feet above sea level. Pretty sparsely populated, and if anyone wants to join my little commune, they can feel free. Assuming they can pull their weight, anyway.


Glad you're preparing for what you don't expect.

Thanks for the offer, but I'll take my chances in the lowlands, where there's topsoil, and trees.

Glad you're preparing for what you don't expect.


Preparing for other things has left me prepared for this particular extenuating circumstance.

Glad you're preparing for what you don't expect.

Not taking sides, but whether he does or doesn't expect it, it's insurance. Smart, if you ask me. :)

Not taking sides, but whether he does or doesn't expect it, it's insurance. Smart, if you ask me. :)
I agree, I wasn't mocking him.

I'm not saying this stuff is doomsday theory (I've driven a car a sum total of <200 miles in the last 2 years partially because the moment Bush2 got elected I got real scared and depressed (I had been planning a career in the alternative energy industry, but from the perspective of physics (which is what my undergrad degree is in), that's fusion, and bush2's first 4 years messed up funding there to heck and back))

What I am saying is that 1/2 of the solution is staring everyone in the face, and the other 1/2 requires a little ingenuity and a lot of money.

I think the bulk of sustainability/permaculture is a great idea...low energy living, growing our food with no nonrenewable inputs, having a secure local food supply no matter where in the world you live.

But I think people who think all human progress is going to stop the moment (or even within 50 years of) peak oil hitting us are people who are taking this too far.

Who says we won't get fusion (I can tell you fusion...if the demand is there...would proliferate the way fossil fuels did...it just doesn't require the nearly the same amount of safety controls nuclear fission did, and has abundant fuel)

Who says governments and corporations won't pull together and fix their f_((up

Who can really prove (and I mean to the last letter) that biofuels can't do the job when paired with low energy culture.

There's a really rudimentary calculation that shows how much energy strikes the day side of the earth each second. the answer is a number that makes most undergraduate physicists crap their pants. I'm not talking double the current world usage, i'm not talking ten times... I'm talking evenwhen you account for 2/3 of the surface being water, solar cells being 10-15% efficient at best and nobody being willing to cover more than 10% of the surface in solar cells, the number is still enough to make one's jaw drop.

So be smart, be prudent, live low energy and eat organic (because those are the right things to do) but keep the tinfoil off your heads...and don't expect your grandchildren to be living in a post-apocalyptic dystopia.

The article made me shiver. I've been through the Soviet Union collapse and all the pictures are very realistic and predictable. There was no a safe harbour where you can wait out bad times. Whether you are working for goverment or private business and feel pretty secure - it's only temporary. Any asset you have might lose value at any time. The only asset that was never losing value was frendship. Friends and relatives were helping each other to go through hadrships, sharing money and helping to find jobs. Invest into friendship.
I put a lot of weight on these wise words, since you are the only one who has actually experienced what is being discussed. Friendships and human society are always our greatest hopes.

This series is a project to capture all ,or as much of, this everyday knowledge
that our grandparents lived by as a norm.

Maybe your grandparents. My grandfather was a VP of Gulf Oil. He was trying to drill the Alaskan Oil Fields in the 1940s.

Maybe your grandparents. My grandfather was a VP of Gulf Oil. He was trying to drill the Alaskan Oil Fields in the 1940s.
My granddad worked at a Weyerhauser paper mill. Rape of the temperate forest and all that.