Living Car Free - A Real Alternative to Current Fuels

(I posted this in another thread but think it deserves its own).

While it's unlikely that car companies will start using this...the key is electric cars with the new infrared-nanotechnology solar cells.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/01/0114_050114_solarplastic.html

These cells are 5-6 times more efficient (at creating usable energy) than current solar panels and can be sprayed on to fabrics or added to paint. They work with the infrared spectrum so they get power not only from the sun but from ANYTHING that gives off heat. So they'll work under clouds, at night, and the heat of a car's engine, the human bodies inside the car could all be helping to power/recharge the car.

Imagine that the part of the car housing the engine is sprayed with an adhesive containing these cells, the car seats and roof inside the car can have these cells, and the outside paint on the car as well. Pretty much the entire car, inside and out, could be grabbing energy. While all that energy might not be enough to power the car indefinitely, it'd likely be enough to take current electric cars that go 60-80 miles on one charge umuch further, perhaps 400 miles (a complete guess) or more.

The great thing about this over other solar options is it gets rid of all the previous arguments like, "it's can't work at night/under clouds," or "it's not efficient enough," or that the solar panels take up too much space, etc. This stuff can be sprayed on to almost anything. So we could even have household furniture that helps create home energy - you could have couches sprayed with this stuff and the fabric would feel the same as before, but now you could power the lamp and a radio with it.

awesome !

What's the catch? (I hope there isn't one, because I'd love to paint my whole boat with this stuff, and replace my loud, obnoxious outboard with a nice, clean, electric motor....) And how would the energy get to where it's needed (e.g., from the couch to the radio)? (Can you tell I didn't read the article?)

What's the catch? (I hope there isn't one, because I'd love to paint my whole boat with this stuff, and replace my loud, obnoxious outboard with a nice, clean, electric motor....) And how would the energy get to where it's needed (e.g., from the couch to the radio)? (Can you tell I didn't read the article?)

catch is they dont exist yet and they MAY be able to do what they think they can, it hasnt happened yet

The catch is that the original poster misquoted the article. It really says
"The breakthrough has led theorists to predict that plastic solar cells could one day become five times more efficient than current solar cell technology."

Theorist PREDICT. There is no mention of their current efficiency.

So, we only need to cover 0.5 million kilometers square with solar panel (0.1% of Earth surface mentioned in the article)? That's just Arizona and Nevada combined.

So, we only need to cover 0.5 million kilometers square with solar panel (0.1% of Earth surface mentioned in the article)? That's just Arizona and Nevada combined.
Right now--I wonder what percentage of America is covered with parking lots? Does anybody know?

^^dunno for sure, but in downtown Columbus according to the Downtown Development Corp parking square footage exceeds office square footage by more than 40% and it still isnt enough !! I also know that parking enforcement is a $12,000 per day gross business for the city, and thats downtown alone ! The almighty automobile has this country F'd(pardon my french), and the sad thing is, most see nothing wrong with it at all.

According with Wikipedia roads in the US are about 6,407,637 km. Assuming an average width of 20 meters (3m+3m for parking, 3m+3m lanes, 3m turning lanes, 1.5m+1.5m bicycle lanes, 1m+1m sidewalk) the surface of all american roads are 0.12 million kilometre square. 1/4 of what has to be covered with *ideal* solar panels.

damnnnnnnnnnnnnn, we have 3.8 million miles of roads, sheesh, that is nuts when you think about it

The *only* real alternative for oil is natural gas. Any other alternative is either far more expensive or not available in sufficient quantities. It will last for another ~50 years. Then we'll have to switch to use coal, which is much less efficient (=expensive) than oil and gas. It does not mean we'll have to use steam engines, though. Gasoline can be produced from coal as well.

Solar, wind, thermal, tide energy is very expensive and of limited use.
Biofuel is limited in quantites we can produce.
Hydrogen is not a source of energy, we have to burn oil or something else to hydrolize water to get H2.
Atomic is dangerous and also limited in quantities.

I dont think we have 50 years of natural gas left in North America in any quantities, production has already peaked it looks like. The problem still isnt technology, its a social problem, we are living beyond our means for the planet to support us, when the loan gets called in it has dire consequences. As high density oil gets replaced with other things the first thing besides the expense is less volume of it period, and other resources get used even faster. The coal supply which is nasty to begin with wont last more than about 35 years or so in that scenario. Like yeast or any animal we seemed destined to use up all our supplies of everything then deal with it---thats happend before too, just not on a planetary scale, the results in isolated cases didnt turn out too well either, people died off in big numbers.

damnnnnnnnnnnnnn, we have 3.8 million miles of roads, sheesh, that is nuts when you think about it

Well, we have 200 million cars and trucks, and we have to put them somewhere. And we have a lot of malls, too, and it's no fun going to a mall if you have to take the bus to get there, so you have to build more roads. It's a perfect, endlessly self-generating cycle: build a mall. Build a road to get there. Build other stuff near the mall. Build more roads to accomodate the traffic. Build another mall further out so recreational shoppers can escape the congestion. Repeat. We're all going to be scratching our heads when we run out of oil, though, and then we'll wish we hadn't been such frantic farmland-pavers. Oh well; let's just enjoy the party while we can.

(I got off topic; sorry, but this madness has become a morbid preoccupation of mine..it's one of the reasons I'm car-free.)

I share the same relative morbid preoccupation, I lean towards keeping track of energy supply end of the deal most of the time.

Is it just me, or does it sort of seem like an awful lot of cities are scramblling right now to make improvements to infrastructure in sort of a last gasp attempt to maintain the staus quo? I know the city I live in has been hit hard by fuel costs and the increase in asphalt to pave roads, I have a feeling they see whats coming, if they dont, they smell it coming at the very least.

I think it will be painful to watch it all disintagrate once it can no longer be maintained.

The US can use liquid natural gas (LNG). Here is the list of largest gas fields in the world:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_natural_gas_fields
Russia and Iran have the largest natural gas reserves. Iran also have one of the largest oil reserves. Do the math.

Oh, im well aware of LNG, and its associated problems, like its scarce right now and contracts well into the future will keep it that way, just ask the UK which thought LNG was gonna save them too after they goofed their forecast for North Sea production ROFLMAO.

Your also neglecting the downturn in exports by the producing countries as hydrocarbon fuels get scarce, this is one of the insideous and often not talked about events already starting to happen. Like for example, Iran is importing gasoline like mad due to refinery capacity shortfalls, what if they switch to CNG for autos, China is looking at this too. Its a multifaceted group of related problems the world is facing. Initially as producing countries production is declining AND their own usage is climbing it effectively almost doubles the decline rate !! The oil and gas producing nations are also for the most part growing in population and usage of fossil fuels, and they live closer to the source !! The other thing about gas is that it doesnt just peak and taper off fairly slowly like oil, it just stops pretty quick altogether. As things get tighter the hording instinct will kick into effect as well, not all the producing nations will want to sell anything in some cases. I expect alot more wars myself.

Ive looked at prettymuch all the options we have, I do not see any other way than to cut usage, and cut it by a sizable amount, like 60% at least here in the US, that alone wipes out our living arrangements we've put into place. Not too smart of us. I think all forms of alternate fuels will be used, and it may very well be pretty geographic too. The southern states that can grow cane probably will, and use it for ethanol. Biofuels will play a role. Coal will play a huge role. Wind will beat out nuclear by a wide margin with solar not far behind it. Still, even with all that, our energy usage will still have to shrink by quite a bit. We have lots of waste to deal with, that alone is worth a big savings, but it wont be enough.

I've heard that a lot of people are experimenting with more traditional alternate fuels, like pizza, bananas, tater tots, etc. I'm experimenting with lentil soup and tortilla chips tonight.

I still prefer the 'checkmate' option: advances in quantum computing lead to accurate nonlinear modelling, stabilizing the Tokamak ring and making fusion sustainable. Throw in some decent batteries and you're game, set, match.

But hey, worm composting and riding your bike is still good! Just don't confuse 'what we can do tomorrow' with 'what we can do now' because they're different. Wind has seen order of magnitude gains in the last decade, and solar has a ways to go too....intensive algae farming can potentially cover our entire need for transportation fuels, using sewage as a feedstock.

Now is a bad time to be investing in a gasoline automobile, and it's a crazy and unstable time for the entire species. But there is also abundant room for optimism, and I'd get a nice diesel if I had any use for it; Jehovah knows there plenty of grease laying around for the taking where I live.

I dont think we have 50 years of natural gas left in North America in any quantities,

.....

You do realize that over 80% of natural gas is currently burned off at the oil pumps, right? They only capture and process 20% of the natural gas they take out of the ground.

Iran all by itself burns enough natural gas everyday to power EVERYTHING in their country... cars, planes, trains, electricity, etc.

The oil companies can't make enough money on it, so they just burn it... Then they jack up the prices because they can't meet the demand?

Go figure, huh?

You do realize that over 80% of natural gas is currently burned off at the oil pumps, right? They only capture and process 20% of the natural gas they take out of the ground.

Iran all by itself burns enough natural gas everyday to power EVERYTHING in their country... cars, planes, trains, electricity, etc.

The oil companies can't make enough money on it, so they just burn it... Then they jack up the prices because they can't meet the demand?

Go figure, huh?
That's not exactly correct. What's usually referred as natural gas is metane, and the gas they burn is propane. In many cases there is just no enough propane to make its collection sensible. Oil is so darn cheap.

Say we do crack the problem of nuclear fusion and get vast quantaties of clean electricty, what effect will that have. Will it encourage continued sprawl developement and paving, just operated by electric/fuel cell cars rather than gasoline?
Will the cleaner atmospheres of cities encourage people back in, within short range of all the shops, restaraunts, theatres, schools, hospitals etc that they need?

Like pedex said the problem is social. We must conserve and we must develop sustainable energy. The developed countries must lead the charge. Only wealthy people (like us) can afford to worry about contraception, conservation, warming and pollution. Poor people only have time and energy to worry about feeding themselves. The wealthy nations must help the poorer nations to develop wealth without drastically increasing their dependence on non-renewable resources. Any other path will probably lead to doom for the planet even before we "run out" of oil. We know what the solution is, we are just too self-centered to implement it.