Fifty Plus (50+) - Lawyer tabs.....keep 'em or filed yours off?

For those of you that don't know, they are those little bits of metal that make it difficult to take your front wheel off.

I got fed up with mine on the Bianchi and the wife's LeMond and filed 'em off. It sure makes it nicer putting bikes up on my roof rack. It took about 2 minutes per bike. My Airborne didn't have any for some reason. (Which prompted me to do the other 2)

+1 ....... filed off !

On Easter weekend, I rode some long climbs and speedy descents (up to 44 MPH). On these long downhill runs, there were some pipe cattle guards consisting of about 12 2" pipes crossing the road. The speed was thrilling and we never thought about slowing down for the guards. Our group had to stop for traffic after about 20 miles and as we were stopped, I looked down at my front wheel and saw that the quick release was loose - put a chill right through my body.
The only thing I can figure is that when I was preparing the bike before the ride, I installed the wheel and forgot to tighten the quick release. This is the first and only time that I have forgotten this VERY IMPORTANT stage of readying the bike.
I might owe my life to the "lawyer bumps " (and the Good Lord) for holding the front wheel on while going over the cattle guards at speed.
In the past, I have done my share of complaining about the inconvience but, nevermore. Besides, it only takes seconds more to unscrew the axle nut enough to clear the bumps.
Score one for the bumps!

[QUOTE=jaws]I might owe my life to the "lawyer bumps " (and the Good Lord) for holding the front wheel on while going over the cattle guards at speed.
In the past, I have done my share of complaining about the inconvience but, nevermore. Besides, it QUOTE]

Something similar happened to me. I'm keepin' em.

I keep 'em for sure.......but I don't have to take the wheels off that often. I just roll the bikes into my van for traveling.

I keep them on. They aren't that much of a bother.

I also have my wheel reflectors on. I figure that if I am in an accident at night and don't have the "required" reflectors my potential search for damages against the potential plaintiff who may be at fault goes out the window.

What are you going to do if and when you sell the bike? Seems to me like a potential lawsuit against yourself in the event of an accident (as described above) by the buyer.

(I have been through a couple of lawsuits. Let me assure you that NO stone is unturned during the discovery process. None.)

The Bridgestone and the Fuji don't have them. The tandem and MTB have them and I hate them. I plan to file them off, but never seem to get a round tuit.

Can't imagine wasting my time taking them off. They've never been a problem for me.

Coupla' things here:

1, You should make sure the QR tension is correct every time you mount the wheel. Having to adjust the nut will force you to do this.

2, If you intentionally disable a factory installed safety device, be prepared to take full, personal responsibility for doing so.

Dogbait

For those of you that don't know, they are those little bits of metal that make it difficult to take your front wheel off.

I got fed up with mine on the Bianchi and the wife's LeMond and filed 'em off. It sure makes it nicer putting bikes up on my roof rack. It took about 2 minutes per bike. My Airborne didn't have any for some reason. (Which prompted me to do the other 2)

I cannot imagine loosing my front wheel. I hope we do not loose you.
:rolleyes:

I cannot imagine loosing my front wheel. I hope we do not loose you.
:rolleyes:
I can't imagine losing my front wheel either, that is why I got rid of the lawyer tabs. Believe me I would never be caught in a position where I would have to rely on lawyer tabs.

The only thing I can figure is that when I was preparing the bike before the ride, I installed the wheel and forgot to tighten the quick release. This is the first and only time that I have forgotten this VERY IMPORTANT stage of readying the bike.
I might owe my life to the "lawyer bumps " (and the Good Lord) for holding the front wheel on while going over the cattle guards at speed.
In the past, I have done my share of complaining about the inconvience but, nevermore. Besides, it only takes seconds more to unscrew the axle nut enough to clear the bumps.
Score one for the bumps!

But if you had filed off the lawyer tabs, you wouldn't have to tighten down the QR because you wouldn't have had to loosen them in the first place to clear the tabs! The tabs force you to add one extra step (tightening the QR), and forgetting this step could lead to a loose front wheel.

Man, don't get me started on those &^(&%^^$ tabs! None of my forks have 'em. The first thang I do when I bring home a new bike frame or fork is to file off those stupid tabs. Then all the front wheel QR's are adjusted for the front dropout and things go very smoothly. If I puncture a front in a criterium, I'm not wasting time adjusting my front QR when I come in for a wheel change.

I really hate those tabs. It's like a committee of non-cyclists said, "we know what's best for you" and made up a ridiculous requirement to fix something that didn't need fixing. Lawyer tabs are symptomatic of a society bent on litigation that substitutes regulation of equipment for personal responsibility! Grrrr....

- L.

...............Lawyer tabs are symptomatic of a society bent on litigation that substitutes regulation of equipment for personal responsibility! Grrrr....

- L.

AMEN !

I can't imagine losing my front wheel either, that is why I got rid of the lawyer tabs. Believe me I would never be caught in a position where I would have to rely on lawyer tabs.

I am not serious with this. My spelling checker accepts "loosing" as well as "losing". So this Immigrant is confused.:rolleyes:

BTW, I had one event where a poorly designed Tie-Rod cam-lock backed off. The lawyer tabs saved my a**. I replaced that Tie-Rod with an OEM Tie-Rod. The culprit Tie-Rod was from a trainer.

"Lawyer tabs" is a convenient name the industry has put on those tabs, but actually they are the secondary retention system for the front wheel. Would you take the safety off of your pistol? That's an exaggeration for sure, but same principle.

So, when you take them off you remove part of the safety features built into your bike.

And, as Dnvrfox points out, no stone is unturned in a discovery process. For that reason I make certain to have the required reflection equipment on every bike I own, daylight rides or not. If its not street legal and I get nipped.....the fulcrum measuring blame starts to slide toward me.

Like drafting too close,riding in a crowd, or buying stocks based on a "tip", its a risk/reward thing. Is the "risk" of losing a wheel, or having your damages suit mitigated by their removal, worth the "reward" of saving a minute or two with the wheel?

"...........and then the wheels came off"

Admittedly, the tabs are a (minor) pain. I sometimes have a vision of myself doing a face plant on the road surface on our favorite fast downhill...in this unwanted fantasy that sometimes comes in mid-descent [please see jppe's current thread "Horrible Accident"] my fork snaps, a sudden gust of wind, I hit some sand...or maybe I hit a bump and my unsecured wheel parts from my drop-outs.

While we can't live always in reaction to fears, it seems unwise to ignore little precautions. This from the guy who drove 125 miles for a ride with his daughter and forgot something as big as his wheel. Having a loose quick release seems easy enough-- at least for me.....hell, I can't remember to zip my saddle bag half the time and have lost my phone more than once.

I'll leave those darn tabs on I'm thinking.

I'm just glad that the bike I ride most came without the lawyer lips. They are a real pain when you transport bikes on fork mount carriers. Without them, you just open the quick release, pull the wheel out to remove it and then put the wheel in and close the quick release. On bikes that do have the lips, the added steps of loosening and tightening the nuts takes "quick" out of the release.

Okay, I give up. What the (*&^(& are lawyer tabs? :eek:

They're the new seat belts. Back in '58 folks used to cut them off.... too inconvenient.

D

Okay, I give up. What the (*&^(& are lawyer tabs? :eek:


This from Sheldon Brown's bicycle glossary:

Lawyer Lips, Lawyer Tabs

Because some bicycle users are competent enough to remove their front wheels but not competent enough to secure them properly when they reinstall them, virtually all new bike purchasers have been deprived of the handy function of quick-release front wheels.
This has been done by encumbering fork ends with extra hardware, ridges or lumps that keep the wheel sort-of attached even if it has been installed by someone who doesn't know what he or she is doing. Unfortunately, this means that the quick-release mechanism must be re-adjusted each time it is used, seriously slowing down the operation.

Since this extra stuff was installed as a defense against frivolous lawsuits by ambulance-chasing shysters, the extra bumps are sometimes known as "lawyer lips" or "lawyer tabs."

As "lawyer lips" have become the norm, they have gradually become more important than they originally were, for two reasons:


The prevalence of these secondary rentention systems in front, and vertical dropouts in the rear has caused the proliferation of inferior skewer designs that are cheaper to manufacture, but much less secure than traditional skewers.
See my Article on Quick Release Skewers.


The introduction of disc brakes has caused increased vulnerability of the front axle and skewer, due to the disc brake applying an ejection force that tends to pull the axle out of the fork.

Safety devices are there for safety. For safety reasons- I keep them.

For those of you that don't know, they are those little bits of metal that make it difficult to take your front wheel off.

I got fed up with mine on the Bianchi and the wife's LeMond and filed 'em off. It sure makes it nicer putting bikes up on my roof rack. It took about 2 minutes per bike. My Airborne didn't have any for some reason. (Which prompted me to do the other 2)
No Darwin or Organ Donor comments warranted by the OP's decision? All goes to show the influence of the Conventional Cycling Wisdom.

Lawyer tabs are symptomatic of a society bent on litigation that substitutes regulation of equipment for personal responsibility!

This is precisely why I removed the Lawyer Belts and Lawyer Bags from my car. Now I can truly express myself without being strong-armed by some regulatory manifestation of our litigious society.

This is precisely why I removed the Lawyer Belts and Lawyer Bags from my car. Now I can truly express myself without being strong-armed by some regulatory manifestation of our litigious society.

Yes, and I took the headlights and brake lights (which are mandated by federal and state laws) off of my car. Man, I hate those regulations!

Next thing, I want to get rid of those federally required brakes. Then comes traffic lights and stop signs. (Oh, and that white line in the middle of the highway has to go). Then I will truly be FREE!

I'm guessing that those of us in the 50+ fourm are the ones who detest these things the most. We're old enough to remember the time prior to their existence. If my kids and younger friends are any indication, they're not a problem for them. They don't think much about it. It's part of the whole bike package and they know of nothing different, for the most part. Mine are on, and I've learned to take off the front wheel by turning the left and right side of the QR at the same rate... both on and off. So, it's not much of a problem. I suspose if I were a pro, without a support vehicle, and was in a time trial, it might be another issue.

I am not serious with this. My spelling checker accepts "loosing" as well as "losing". So this Immigrant is confused.:rolleyes:


They're both valid words; in fact they're homonyms. "Loosing" means to let loose, as in an arrow or a horse. That might apply if you purposely launched the front wheel.

[QUOTE=DnvrFox Oh, and that white line in the middle of the highway has to go[/QUOTE]
:lol: I always hated that white line.

This is precisely why I removed the Lawyer Belts and Lawyer Bags from my car. Now I can truly express myself without being strong-armed by some regulatory manifestation of our litigious society.

Erroneous comparisons always make a point. Let's see, apples, duh oranges... yep, same fruit!

Let's just agree to the fact that we all have thoughts regarding these tabs, and it's a personal, not a legal issue.

Erroneous comparisons always make a point. Let's see, apples, duh oranges... yep, same fruit!

Let's just agree to the fact that we all have thoughts regarding these tabs, and it's a personal, not a legal issue.
Good idea. Same restraint should be shown before someone wishes to post an over-the-top rant (i.e. Darwin and Organ Donor rhetoric) about those who have differing thoughts on bicycle helmets.

In aviation, pretty well everything on a plane has a backup in case the first thing (or procedure) craps out. The "Belt and Suspenders" philosophy. Although I absolutely detest frivolous lawsuits, and although some "safety" devices are admidetlly a pain in the behind, I'd leave them on for exactly this "belt and suspenders" reason.
Actually, being a newbie biker I never knew those tabs were even there or what they do before I noticed it in this forum, but I suspect they might have saved me a wreck a year ago when I happened to notice the front wheel loose while loading my bike after a ride about a year ago. For the tiny inconvenience involved, I'd leave them on! Beats a head or neck injury or fracture, or even just leaving a skid mark of your hide on the road!

I think it says somewhere in the booklet supplied with my newest bike ('02) that removing the tabs will void the warranty. So far I've left them on for that reason. My other bikes are so old it becomes a moot point. :)

I was showing a young lady how to take off her front wheel on her new bike. I commented on the "Lawyers lips", and that you have to live with the inconvenience. She said both of her parents were lawyers. Oops !

The biggest thing that I dislike about them is that I feel insulted that someone thought so little of my intelligence that they thought these were necessary.

The biggest thing that I dislike about them is that I feel insulted that someone thought so little of my intelligence that they thought these were necessary.

It goes beyond merely their distrust of some cyclists' intelligence. They're more concerned with protecting their assets from lawsuit when you have enough smarts to contact a sharp lawyer. Personally, I think an adequate defense would be, "That dummy should have tightened his quick release."
Still, someone would protest that they did not know the function or how-to of said quick release.

Wonder if the same goes for brake levers?

I leave mine alone. I pondered removing them, but

1) they aren't really a hassle

2) QR's can pop loose sparring with riders on the road, or on the trail. tabs will ensure
front end won't drop your face to the floor if QR does happen to get released.

Look at this from a different standpoint. Let's say you're building bicycles; who's your target buyer? By and far the largest purchasers of bicycles aren't responsible, 50 somethings who know to check the basics--like whether the wheels are on properly (if they remember to bring them ;)). The largest group of bicycle buyers are kids raised on video games and computers--not a real issue if the mouse wheel falls off--who have no mechanical skills whatsoever, nor do the majority take any responsibility for their actions. Unfortunately what these kids do have, as a rule, is parents who sue for any reason at all. And they think a bike manufacturer with all its insurance is a peach that should be picked. As a manufacturer, I'd do everything I could to CMA (that's CYA, but Mine in this case).

That all said, I leave them. Quick (as in QR) is relative. Have a flat, find the wrench, loosen the left nut, change hands with the wrench and loosen the right nut, find the left nut that fell in the dirt, blow out the threads, repair the tire, reinstall the wheel, tighten the left nut, change hands, tighten the right nut, change hands, check the left nut, change hands, check the right nut, wedge the wrench back into the pack...taking a couple of extra turns with the skewer is still quicker.

By and far the largest purchasers of bicycles aren't responsible, 50 somethings who know to check the basics...Unfortunately what these kids do have, as a rule, is parents who sue for any reason at all.
Ya think responsible 50 somethings wouldn't be at their lawyer's office just as fast as those parents for exactly the same reason? - a product that failed catastrophically because the user treated it like any other typical bike. Selling a product to the general public with an intrinsically unsafe design for the casual user requires the safety countermeasure; Don't fool yourself. It isn't the lawyers, that made the wee-wee poor marketing decisions that put quick release wheels on bikes meant for the general public and casual cyclist.

They work. Mine are staying. To each his own.

Don't race.

Don't use quick releases.

Not an issue.

Unsafe design? I've been riding for over 20 years over the usual crumby roads and a few washboard trails and I have yet to have or hear locally of a QR popping open. Bolt on wheels are far more a pain in the butt than a few extra turns on the skewer to overcome the tab. I'll bet far more riders are hurt falling onto their top tube than from having a wheel come off due to QR problems-- perhaps partly due to the tab. Maybe general bike frame design is intrinsically flawed and we should all switch to mixte to guard the nards?

Unsafe design? I've been riding for over 20 years over the usual crumby roads and a few washboard trails and I have yet to have or hear locally of a QR popping open.
So what do you think the lawyers (of lawyer lips) fame (and their clients) were making a fuss about? Perhaps you didn't read some of the earlier posts on this thread. Remember, bicycles are sold to people with whom you may not associate.

So what do you think the lawyers (of lawyer lips) fame (and their clients) were making a fuss about? Perhaps you didn't read some of the earlier posts on this thread. Remember, bicycles are sold to people with whom you may not associate.

I-Like,
I don't think the design is unsafe...it is functional and seldom fails...if used properly. More people probably burn themselves on clothes irons, slam their fingers in car doors, etc....than smash to the pavement because a QR failed. In short, those pavement-smashers almost certainly failed to use this moronically simple device properly.

Should QR's be put on "non-serious" cyclist's bikes? That's a manufacturer's marketing and, in the real world, legal department's decision. If people forget to use a simple device--whether a car's door lock or a QR-- whose real fault is it? The tabs are a back up for fallible human nature....but QR's don't seem to be "intrinsically unsafe" because they require no special training or aptitude to use-- any more than a paring knife. Should the law really require others to protect us from our own intrinsic folly or lapse of attention?

There's plenty of chicanery, malfeasance, and indiffference in the commercial world-- but QR's don't seem to be it. The safety tabs are probably a good idea. Filing them and off and accepting any consequences is an individual's choice.

Anyway, the design and use of QR's doesn't seem to me to be flawed...whether they're appropriate for all cyclists is something else.

The safety tabs are probably a good idea. Filing them and off and accepting any consequences is an individual's choice.

Anyway, the design and use of QR's doesn't seem to me to be flawed...whether they're appropriate for all cyclists is something else.
We are in agreement on your bottom line analysis of the subject.

but QR's don't seem to be "intrinsically unsafe" because they require no special training or aptitude to use--

I have seen a number of folks attempt to tighten up a QR simply by tightening it as you would a bolt, not being aware of the leverage aspect inherent in the lever itself. Of course, once they think they have it "tight" it is not possible to utilize the lever.

No one ever taught them, and it is NOT intuitive.

It isn't the lawyers, that made the wee-wee poor marketing decisions that put quick release wheels on bikes meant for the general public and casual cyclist.

From a mechanical standpoint, the QR is actually safer than some kid or adult using a crescent wrench to tighten a 9/16" nut. The QR by its nature is a cam lock system.

I have been around two front wheel losses. Both were from non-QR systems.

I have seen a number of folks attempt to tighten up a QR simply by tightening it as you would a bolt, not being aware of the leverage aspect inherent in the lever itself. Of course, once they think they have it "tight" it is not possible to utilize the lever.

No one ever taught them, and it is NOT intuitive.
It's interesting that experienced cyclists who have no problem managing quick releases have so much trouble getting the wheel off a bike if it has "lawyer lips".

Who would have thought a a small bead of metal no bigger than a tick could have sparked such a discussion! Forget the lawyers, what does this say about our ability to generate much from little.:beer:

Dnvr, you probably have a point on people "expertly" screwing down the QR lever-- but what's a bike shop for?? Maybe it's just one more thing we should add to intermediate grade school curriculum!

I have seen a number of folks attempt to tighten up a QR simply by tightening it as you would a bolt, not being aware of the leverage aspect inherent in the lever itself. Of course, once they think they have it "tight" it is not possible to utilize the lever.

No one ever taught them, and it is NOT intuitive.

Yes I've seen this too. I am amazed at the number of people who cannot grasp the concept of a QR.

Aren't you at least a little bit afraid to admit such an act via a media that is being monitered by Homeland Security? You should be. Forget about the black helicopters. The ones that they're using today look kind of like big model airplanes but they're quiet and hard to see. Check outside your house right now and see if you can see one loitering around.

I don't tear the tags off of mattresses either.

Dnvr, you probably have a point on people "expertly" screwing down the QR lever-- but what's a bike shop for?? Maybe it's just one more thing we should add to intermediate grade school curriculum!

Only as long as the state assessment programs have a question or two about QR's and leverage. Otherwise, just forget it! If it is not tested, I didn't teach it! Not as long as they publish the scores by school, grade level, subject and, essentially, by teacher.