Foo - Why do some Doctors, Professors etc insist on titles outside of work?

Both worthy jobs that humanity would be sad to be without of course, I'm not belittling the important job....

When I worked in sales, credit forms would sometimes have to be torn up because we'd written "Mr. Crippen", instead of "Dr. Crippen", or "Mr. Moriarty" instead of "Prof. Moriarty", and so on....

Yet no-one has ever insisted we write "Nurse Nightingale", "Teacher Amis", "Fireman Sam", "Sergeant Rock", "Officer Dibble" or the like.... :)

Is their any quaint historical reason for this?

until one is addressed correctly, one shan't answer in a direct fashion.

I agree with Sir Funkychicken.

Presumably when you have spent 7+ years in tertiary education and then years more in on the job training you believe you've earned a title. Oddly enough specialists are called 'Mr'.

It makes more sense than calling someone Lord such and such just because their father was a lord. Or the queen - I mean what's up with that.

I work at the University of Virginia, founded by Thomas Jefferson. He didn't believe in such titles, and to this day students don't refer to professors as "Dr." In fact, Jefferson thought people should be lifelong learners and didn't want to distribute degrees--a concept which didn't last.

If someone doesn't like you, they make you use the proper title. If you are okay, then it's a first name basis.

Because they're pompous bastards.

I'm on a first name basis w/ my chiropractor, vetrinarian and oncologist even in the office. Matter of fact, when I first met my oncologist he walks in the exam room and asid "Hi, my name is Tony" Of course with a last name like Magadalinski, Tony is so much less cumbersome :)

But then why don't you refer to Dr. Death as Jack?

But then why don't you refer to Dr. Death as Jack?

Because I've never met the man for him to have occasion to ask me to call him "Jack". And as with all persons of title... Doctors, clergy, judges etc. I acknowlege their title out of curtosey unless instructed to do otherwise, especially in the professional environment.

What you got against Dr. Jack?

I agree, Im also troubled by some people who insist on having thier profession be part of thier name. To me it's a constant remimder that they think they are a level above everyone.
If you're out and not on call,not wearing your doctor's uniform, why can't you be referred as you, the human being, Mr. Jones.. ect.. why need the title?? and if we dont want descrimination then will we start naming everyone according to thier profession? Hi, I'm restaurant owner Karen.. wow.. does that sound silly!

^^^

IMHO, it sounds VERY distinguished Resturant Owner Karen. :)

:roflmao: :roflmao:
^^^

IMHO, it sounds VERY distinguished Resturant Owner Karen. :)
sounds even sillier! but on a serious note, i would like to know why it is that we have to use thier titles! It's different in this country for some things for example.. you guys call a woman Mrs. or Miss depending weather she is married.. In Canada they are all Mrs. because they thought it was descrimination and quite franckly noone's business to know weather you got your self a hubby watching tv on the couch at home or not

"I didn't spend years in Evil Medical School to be called Mr. Evil!" :D

Seriously, if someone has spend 4 years in pre-med, 4 in med school, and another 3-5 in residency, I'll call them anything the hell they want to be called. It's just unbelievable that someone could be in school for 11-13 years, and as someone who is switching careers to Emergency Nursing (having tasted just a fraction of their training) I really admire what they do.

As far as Professorship, sometimes the title and respect can be important to their effectiveness in my opinion, and sometimes they just get off on it.

Oh yeah, and +1 on the life-long learning bit. Especially in medicine.

If you're not sure call them Ms. My wife kept her own name (I insisted upon it) and she is a Ms not a Mrs.


Also, IMO you address people by their title out of respect. If you have no respect for them don't address them by their title. QED.

The 'position' deserves inital respect, lasting respect must be earned.

I agree but under who's criteria do we decide if one profession is more worthy of a title then an other?

I agree, Im also troubled by some people who insist on having thier profession be part of thier name. !

It is part of your name. You can call me Joe, or Dr. Smith (not actually), but not Mr Smith, because that would be inaccurate.

still dont get it... why do I call you Dr.Smith and not Mr. Smith and you dont dont me "restaurant owner Jones?"

In Canada they are all Mrs.

I don't think that is true...I think most people would use Ms by default.

still dont get it... why do I call you Dr.Smith and not Mr. Smith and you dont dont me "restaurant owner Jones?"

I don't know why there aren't specific addresses for every profession or trade. However, if you are going to use Mr. Mrs, Ms, Father (for priests) etc,, then calling someone with a doctorate Dr. is the consistent practise.

still dont get it... why do I call you Dr.Smith and not Mr. Smith and you dont dont me "restaurant owner Jones?"


Most doctors don't work as doctors if you know what I mean. Most doctors are PHDs not MDs.

It is part of your name. You can call me Joe, or Dr. Smith (not actually), but not Mr Smith, because that would be inaccurate.

OMG, you're not a Mister? You mean I have spent all this time thinking you were a guy and having semi intelligent conversation with you, when you are actually a gal and I could have been hitting on you? I must take my life at once. :eek: :p

These are traditions that vary over time. Just as a factoid, the traditional use of "Mrs." is in combination with the husband's name, so in previous generations, one would never say "Mrs. Jane Jones", but rather "Mrs Henry Jones". And traditionally "Mister" was term of respect for surgeons and certain naval ranks.

I don't think that is true...I think most people would use Ms by default.
OK is this arguing for the sake of arguing? theyareall called "madame"( which is Mrs.) I know Im canadian

If someone has a Masters degree, should you call them 'Master'?

I bet there's a Doctor forum out there with a reoccuring post about people not calling them Dr.

:roflmao:
If someone has a Masters degree, should you call them 'Master'?

I bet there's a Doctor forum out there with a reoccuring post about people not calling them Dr.

OK is this arguing for the sake of arguing? theyareall called "madame"( which is Mrs.) I know Im canadian


Don't the French have an equivalent for Ms? I assume they're only called madame in Quebec?

If someone has a Masters degree, should you call them 'Master'?


How about a Bachelor's degree? Geeze, we got a lot of Bachelor's running around not getting their due!

So why then are there double titles for political positions like:

Mister President

or

Madame Secretary of State

??

So why then are there double titles for political positions like:

Mister President

or

Madame Secretary of State

??


In a political setting, those people BECOME that position. President Bush is not a person when he is President, he is the President of America. He represents the thoughts of all the people of this country (Theoretically). Therefore, he sacrifices his name to take the name of his position.

He represents the thoughts of all the people of this country (Theoretically). Therefore, he sacrifices his name to take the name of his position.

I understand the theory, but in the case of the shrub currently in the Oval Office, I'd like to say...

:roflmao:

Once I was finished with my studies, all of my profs wanted me to call them by a first name basis. If someone has gone through the studies, headache and trials of getting a "terminal" degree (doctorates), they have earned that title and to call them by their title is a symbol of respect for the position, not the necessarily the person. Some parent friends of mine expect their children to always refer to adults as Mr., Ms., Mrs. and then their name (first and/or last name) as a symbol of respect for the fact that this is an adult who probably knows better than the kid.

I'm just waiting for the day that some medical school dropout dentist insist that I call him doctor, I mean, come on! Dentists! They're not doctors!

I'm just waiting for the day that some medical school dropout dentist insist that I call him doctor, I mean, come on! Dentists! They're not doctors!


They are in some countries.


How many people here actually have graduate or post-graduate degrees?


I assume the ones that don't tend to be the ones that don't see the need for calling someone doctor or whatever?

Both worthy jobs that humanity would be sad to be without of course, I'm not belittling the important job....

When I worked in sales, credit forms would sometimes have to be torn up because we'd written "Mr. Crippen", instead of "Dr. Crippen", or "Mr. Moriarty" instead of "Prof. Moriarty", and so on....

Yet no-one has ever insisted we write "Nurse Nightingale", "Teacher Amis", "Fireman Sam", "Sergeant Rock", "Officer Dibble" or the like.... :)

Is their any quaint historical reason for this?
In many cultures and languages people are known by the professions, and are entitled as such. Nurse Wu, Teacher Wakayama, Chef Pierre. Maybe most of us prefer the informality that English provides.

For me? Just don't call me late for dinner!

They are in some countries.


How many people here actually have graduate or post-graduate degrees?


I assume the ones that don't tend to be the ones that don't see the need for calling someone doctor or whatever?


You'd be wrong.

You'd be wrong.

Why?

Seinfeld anyone?

A lot of people don't bother getting anything past a bachelors since there isn't much of a increase in salary from bachelors on, and actually goes down with a doctorate (compared to grad school). I'm sure there a many examples to the contrary, but... huh?

When somebody has their own practice, their business rests on the fact that they are a doctor, not just some schlub with a stethoscope, so I think its appropiate to refer to him as a 'Dr.' in most instantances, like legal, insurance, and DMV forms. Isn't necessary, if a Doc gets irrated when I call him Mr in a casual setting, screw him, he ain't gonna do my next physical.

I used to travel with an engineer PhD. who would always sign in at the small town hotels as Dr. ___________. And just about as often as not, he would awaken in the middle of the night at some point during our stay by the front desk asking if he could come down and help with a medical emergency. I used to love watching him the next day trying explain to the locals that he wasn't an MD, just a pompous idiot.

Don't the French have an equivalent for Ms? I assume they're only called madame in Quebec?
yes they have an equivalent for mrs, it's "mademoiselle" but years ago... they actually required every ladie to be called Mrs, saying it was descrimation to adress to someone in a different manner according to thier marrital status.

People's egos can amaze one. I recall respoding to a complaint when I worked for a utility. THis was in Florida. The guy was retired. Retired military. When I called him Mr. whatever- he said call me colonel whatever. For the rest of the time, I mostly talked to his wife when possible.
Did not call him 'heah you,' but would have liked to .
He was not in uniform or ever my commander.
Certainly too old to be anyone's commander.

yes they have an equivalent for mrs, it's "mademoiselle" but years ago... they actually required every ladie to be called Mrs, saying it was descrimation to adress to someone in a different manner according to thier marrital status.


Madamoiselle is the equalivalent of miss isn't it?

I used to travel with an engineer PhD. who would always sign in at the small town hotels as Dr. ___________. And just about as often as not, he would awaken in the middle of the night at some point during our stay by the front desk asking if he could come down and help with a medical emergency. I used to love watching him the next day trying explain to the locals that he wasn't an MD, just a pompous idiot.
When he got that call n the middle of the night to help, he could've said, "Yeah! Call 9-1-1!"

Why?
you're wrong for assuming that people withought a degree would be the one carrying a chip on thier shoulders... who needs the power trip the most here? the one content with being called "Paul" or the one who needs the title of "Dr" to feel like he is someone?

Madamoiselle is the equalivalent of miss isn't it?
yep.. and once again... it is only OK morally ( in Quebec city) to adress a young child as a "mademoiselle" and not a ladie for reasons stated above!! :)

Why?

Do you need a brick to fall on your head? If I said you'd be wrong, what's the first obvious reason that comes to your mind? (unless you are an MBA, in which case we'll give you three guesses, then tell you the answer)

These are traditions that vary over time. Just as a factoid, the traditional use of "Mrs." is in combination with the husband's name, so in previous generations, one would never say "Mrs. Jane Jones", but rather "Mrs Henry Jones". And traditionally "Mister" was term of respect for surgeons and certain naval ranks.

Yeah, its a societal thing. MD's and brainiacs are traditionally considered at the pinnacle of the professions, so they get a special title.

I get a kick when I get called "doctor" by my Latin American clients. In most of Latin America, lawyers are addressed as Dr., but I would never insist that I be called Dr. and I agree that someone who does is doing it out of pomposity.

I opine that both the people who insist on being called "Doctor" and the people who get upset about it are neck and neck as far as insecurity goes.

And I shall henceforth be refered to as Kaiser Pup. Thanks.

If you are on "title terms" with someone, why not call them by their proper title. If someone wants to me to call him Dr, I'll call them doctor. If someone wants me to call them coach, then I'll call them coach. If someone wants me to call then Senator, I'll call them Senator. If I don't know the proper title, I'll use Mrs, Mr etc.. until they let me know. People have worked hard to get a that title and deserve it to be called it.

Now if they are a dick about it, I'll call them a dick.

MD's and brainiacs are traditionally considered at the pinnacle of the professions, so they get a special title.



Why don't the higher echelons of the fire department, after fighting their way through the ranks, training and gaining experience, insist on calling themselves by their "fire officer" title (or whatever)?


Are they not as worthy as doctors?