Is he sick or what's the deal here ? No EPO ?

He was looking mighty strong in the Dauphine Liberere and that is only a few weeks ago.

How can ones fitness level drop so fast ?

It is a strange coincidence that Tour performances this year are pretty poor (aside from Flandis) and the Spanish dope supply has been shut down...

It is a strange coincidence that Tour performances this year are pretty poor (aside from Flandis) and the Spanish dope supply has been shut down...

Yea, Lance is probably kicking himself for getting out. Just think, he dominated while clean vs. all of his main rivals doping. He would have won by what 20min or so this year? :rolleyes:

It is a strange coincidence that Tour performances this year are pretty poor (aside from Flandis) and the Spanish dope supply has been shut down...

Looks like T-Mobile had a "plan B". :p

Yea, Lance is probably kicking himself for getting out. Just think, he dominated while clean vs. all of his main rivals doping. He would have won by what 20min or so this year? :rolleyes:

I haven't found anyone else besides people on this forum that claims Lance innocent.

Lance used Ferrari anyway not Fuentes

Lance innocent?... only until proven guilty! :roflmao:


I personally think Levi peaked too soon for the Dauphne and is off the razor.

Now Boonen!.... I think he stopped taking the EPO. I liek the guy, but come one! Zabel is kicking your butt! and he over 10 years older!

smart DS's would have their riders get thier gear from different doctors, that way only 1 or 2 riders would be affected int he case of somthing like the Spanish bust.

Seems that Only Astana - Wurth were stupid enough to get all ther prescritions filled at one doctor....

I haven't found anyone else besides people on this forum that claims Lance innocent.

I've encountered a few non-cyclists who have Lance worship going on. They usually get shot down pretty quickly when I explain that most of the peloton 'miraculously' maintains a near 50% hematocrit level (when 'normal' levels for atheletes are 44 to 46%) for 3 weeks, cycling 130 to almost 200 kilometers a day, when marathon runners lose 1% during a 4 hour marathon, and another 3% over the next 24 hours.

Now obviously a marathon is harder on the body than a few hours on a bike, but a few WEEKS?

There *may* be riders in the peloton not doping, but they're not top 10!

Things may be different this year. I hope so, and I hope it continues. It might become more obvious over the next week in the hills.

When I look at Leipheimer in his video interviews he looks wistful about his results. He doesn't look mad and eager to prove himself in the next part of the Tour. Maybe he has a Zen calm about something that can't be changed, and he'll perform in the mountains. Maybe he needs Zidane to headbutt him and pass on some competitive rage.

I haven't found anyone else besides people on this forum that claims Lance innocent.

Well . . . thanks for looking anyway. Maybe try someplace other than a French bar next time. :)

When I look at Leipheimer in his video interviews he looks wistful about his results. He doesn't look mad and eager to prove himself in the next part of the Tour. Maybe he has a Zen calm about something that can't be changed, and he'll perform in the mountains. Maybe he needs Zidane to headbutt him and pass on some competitive rage.


I don't think I have ever seen Levi mad. He reminds me of Jan and just a quiet talented rider that is always the bridesmaid and never the bride. I think that is why Bobby Julich never won a TDF (not including Armstrong) but just the fact that he seemed too nice.

FWIW..... big fan of Julich and Levi.

He looked pretty angry when he turned around to see his time at the TT finish. And by angry, I mean that he shook his head. A bit.

My theory: Levi looked at the Tour contenders and figured "no way I can win", so he emptied the wallet to win the Dauphine. That and a top ten again in the TDF is still a nice season, keeps him as a team leader, like last year when he won the TDG and rode a very conservative TDF.

Then the doping scandel hit and he probably started kicking himself.

Its not over until Paris, Leipheimer is only 1:30 behind Landis (90 seconds) and the closest TdF in history is 80 seconds. Its still a close race.

Its not over until Paris, Leipheimer is only 1:30 behind Landis (90 seconds) and the closest TdF in history is 80 seconds. Its still a close race.
Umm I think you are thinking of Hincapie...he is 1:30 down on Flandis. Levi is 5:42 seconds down to Flandis and of course another min down on the Yellow jersey.

Its not over until Paris, Leipheimer is only 1:30 behind Landis (90 seconds) and the closest TdF in history is 80 seconds. Its still a close race.

Closest was 8 seconds, not 80. If Marco (God rest his soul) were 90 seconds back at this point he would be in great shape. But if an all rounder or someone whose strength is the TT then that rider is in big trouble.

Levi is more in the condition that Delgado was in after his Prologue screw up in 89 (the year of the 8 second difference). It will take an heroic effort on his part to claw his way to the podium.

Closest was 8 seconds, not 80. If Marco (God rest his soul) were 90 seconds back at this point he would be in great shape. But if an all rounder or someone whose strength is the TT then that rider is in big trouble.

Levi is more in the condition that Delgado was in after his Prologue screw up in 89 (the year of the 8 second difference). It will take an heroic effort on his part to claw his way to the podium.
Sadly, you are probably correct.

You are correct, I had major thinking problems on that one, however, the sentiment still stands.

The yellow jersey lost major time today and was replaced (>7 minutes). Last year Jens Voigt lost major time (almost an hour, I think) in one stage. We are worried about Leipheimer being ten minutes off the leader on day one of the mountains. I'm wouldn't write him off this soon based only on his timetrail problems.

Ok so I saw an interview with Levi, post stage today and he must have been feeling ill. His coment was that he was feeling better today but had a bonkish (his word) expierence as he couldn't get enough food into his body. Said he was going to eat well tonight so lets hope for a comeback.

Lance innocent?... only until proven guilty! :roflmao:


I personally think Levi peaked too soon for the Dauphne and is off the razor.

Now Boonen!.... I think he stopped taking the EPO. I liek the guy, but come one! Zabel is kicking your butt! and he over 10 years older!

How is EPO supposed to help sprinters?

If he was relying on EPO he was using the wrong drug for the job.

You are correct, I had major thinking problems on that one, however, the sentiment still stands.

The yellow jersey lost major time today and was replaced (>7 minutes). Last year Jens Voigt lost major time (almost an hour, I think) in one stage. We are worried about Leipheimer being ten minutes off the leader on day one of the mountains. I'm wouldn't write him off this soon based only on his timetrail problems.

Why compare apples and oranges? The 7 minutes today means nothing because it was 2 riders who have no chance in hte GC by the end. Time differences of 5 minutes or more in a stage between contenders is very rare these days (and 10 minutes was been really rare since before WW II). The last 5 minute plus was when Pantani put time on Ulrich. It is also a good example of when large time swings happen. Ulrich panicked and cracked. That is where any large time swing between contenders that I can remember happened (at least in the last 20 years). Levi has a big problem there. There are many contenders ahead of him. So what if 1 or 2 crack if a half dozen are left?

I saw yesterday's first stage in the Pyrenees, and leipheimer didn't look good at all. Always being dropped by a peloton of 50+ men. Historically I do not remember a guy being so bad in first mountain stage, recovering miraculously in the Alpes.

I think Leipheimer will lose loads of minutes in today's hard stage to Spain. Another disappointment on Gerolsteiner was the young hope Fothen. I just wonder if whatever Gerolsteiner is on (legal or illegal) was properly timed for this Tour de France.

levi really does look as if he's been quite ill.

compare interviews from the past few days with prerace. hes far too gaunt for this early in the race.

in any case its a shame. he was my sentimental favorite.

The 7 minutes today means nothing because it was 2 riders who have no chance in hte GC by the end.
Claudio Ciapucci came pretty damn close to winning the Tour after a day long break in which he was let go because he wasn't considered a contender.

I miss him.:(

Warning: Spoiler





I think today's stage (11) and leipheimer cutting his deficit to 05' 39" from 10' 28". I doubt he can pull back Landis but Landis has to make it to Paris (dead hip and all). Identified contenders have already dropped (Mayo?), simply finishing the TdF is amazing (both because of luck and endurance). It's not over until Paris.

edit: for spoiler warning

Be nicer to Levi, his off-season home sits in the Rogers Creek Fault zone. The USGS has declared that fault most likely in the SF area to have a major quake in the near future.

His choice. I imagine that its torture to live in Santa Rosa in the off season.

I think today's stage (11) and leipheimer cutting his deficit to 05' 39" from 10' 28". I doubt he can pull back Landis but Landis has to make it to Paris (dead hip and all). Identified contenders have already dropped (Mayo?), simply finishing the TdF is amazing (both because of luck and endurance). It's not over until Paris.

Yes, at the rate he's pulling back time if Floyd fails Levi will only need another 15 mountain stages to reel back in Sastre and Evans. Of course he'll need to hire Superman to spin the earth backwards to make time on Menchov, who gained time on him today, but hey, anything can happen.

Unless he's got a pocket full of Kryptonite, he'll be lucky to make it into 5th or 6th.

Mayo a contender? Are you Basque? Check the date on that Tour guide please.

Closest was 8 seconds, not 80. If Marco (God rest his soul) were 90 seconds back at this point he would be in great shape. But if an all rounder or someone whose strength is the TT then that rider is in big trouble.


Marco would just take more dope. Pantani's "all roundedness" was likely due to the plethora of doping he did.

This is the weirdest TDF ever, and the strangest racing of the last three years. Amazing what a doping investigation will do.

People can finally shutup about Mayo, Leipheimer, and Hincapie. It ain't gonna happen.
Still no explanation for Voigt's poor finishes.

People can finally shutup about Mayo, Leipheimer, and Hincapie. It ain't gonna happen.
Still no explanation for Voigt's poor finishes.


I think Leipheimer could possibly pull out a stage win (particularly if Menchov, Sastre, Evans, Landis get too cute marking each other in the Alps), and a very outside chance of crawling on the podium. (although 5th -8th is probably more realistic.) Depends on which Levi shows up in the Alps.

Warning: Spoiler





I think today's stage (11) and leipheimer cutting his deficit to 05' 39" from 10' 28". I doubt he can pull back Landis but Landis has to make it to Paris (dead hip and all). Identified contenders have already dropped (Mayo?), simply finishing the TdF is amazing (both because of luck and endurance). It's not over until Paris.

edit: for spoiler warning

He pulled back at most 2 minutes on any of the contenders. 4 seconds on Floud and only 29 seconds on the next 2. If he continues he has a chance to podium, but little more barring a crash.

I saw yesterday's first stage in the Pyrenees, and leipheimer didn't look good at all. Always being dropped by a peloton of 50+ men. Historically I do not remember a guy being so bad in first mountain stage, recovering miraculously in the Alpes.

I think Leipheimer will lose loads of minutes in today's hard stage to Spain. Another disappointment on Gerolsteiner was the young hope Fothen. I just wonder if whatever Gerolsteiner is on (legal or illegal) was properly timed for this Tour de France.

wow, wrong answer ! :p

His choice. I imagine that its torture to live in Santa Rosa in the off season.

As long as he doesn't bike in Santa Rosa, there are plenty of nice rides near here.

That said, I'm getting the hell out of this place in mid-autumn! Thailand, here I come!

I saw yesterday's first stage in the Pyrenees, and leipheimer didn't look good at all. Always being dropped by a peloton of 50+ men. Historically I do not remember a guy being so bad in first mountain stage, recovering miraculously in the Alpes.

I think Leipheimer will lose loads of minutes in today's hard stage to Spain. Another disappointment on Gerolsteiner was the young hope Fothen. I just wonder if whatever Gerolsteiner is on (legal or illegal) was properly timed for this Tour de France.


wow, wrong answer ! :p

Yepp, totally. Just wonder who that nobody was :D :D :D

The only serious GC guys that beat Levi today on the Alpe d'Huez are Floyd, Kloden and Sastre. He moved up to 9th.


GC
1 Floyd Landis (USA) Phonak 69.00.05 (41.535 km/h)
2 Oscar Pereiro (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne-Illes Balears 0.10
3 Cyril Dessel (Fra) AG2R-Prevoyance 2.02
4 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 2.12
5 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Team CSC 2.17
6 Andreas Klöden (Ger) T-Mobile 2.29
7 Cadel Evans (Aus) Davitamon-Lotto 2.56
8 Michael Rogers (Aus) T-Mobile 5.01
9 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Gerolsteiner 6.18

To get in 5th Levi needs to not lose enough time to anyone behind such that they pass him, and gain the following time on any four of the following seven:

1:18 on Rogers (Levi got a minute on him today, very doable)
3:22 on Cadel (Also got a minute today, with two more mountain stages, maybe...)
3:50 on Klöden (not likely, based on today)
4:02 on Sastre (also not likely)
4:06 on Menchov (only got 30 seconds today, but Menchov looked cooked, so he might lose even more time tomorrow)
4:17 on Cyril Dessel (very possible; Dessel lost 1:15 to Levi today)
6:06 on Pereiro (possible, but Pereiro lost only a minute to Levi today)

The 4 he's most likely to catch are probably: Dessel, Rogers, Cadel and either Menchov or Pereiro, assuming one of them cracks in the next couple of days. I don't see him catching Klöden, or Sastre on GC.

So, I'd say his odds of getting in the top 5 are about 50/50 at this point.

Of course, there is the wild card of the final TT. If he loses 5 minutes again all bets are off. On the other hand, if whatever slowed him down so much in the prologue, the first TT and the first mountain stage is resolved, and he has the TT of his life, we can't even rule out the podium for him yet.

Dang you HH... may the *spoiler* patrol beat you with a smelly fish. :p

wow, wrong answer ! :p


No, wrong timing, hahahaha