I Was Hit By A Car!!!!!!!!!!!

[arreyonskyy]

I deleted my post because of the stupidity of several people. ThIs WaS NoT a PoSt On GrAMmEr, NOR ON WHEN OR WHEN NOT TO USE CAPS PER ThE BeDfOrD HaNdBoOk FoR WrItErS. When i ride, i do not carry what ever that device is that messures speed (but i am sure some KNOW IT ALL WILL SAY).
Neither do I have Super Measure Man abilities to judge distance with an aprx. number.
All i can say concerning her speed is what the Trooper *noted on the accident report* and what the driver *REPORTED TO HER INSURANCE COMPANY*
WHY WAS I NOT THROWN 100 FT BEHIND THE CAR

******* BY THE GRACE OF GOD*********
that was directed to the "crash consulant" or what ever he is

What did the witness say SHE WAS ON THE CELL PHONE GOING FROM SIDE TO SIDE ON THE ROAD. BY ALL MEANS SHE WAS RECKLESS. Her child was in the front seat (an infant child) with the car seat in the back seat. MAY I REPEAT RECKLESS

WHY DID I MOVE TO THE MIDDLE ON THE ROAD. THE LAST TIME I CHECKED IT WAS THE ONLY WAY TO MOVE LEFT FROM RIGHT.
so carry on
YOU MAY DEBATE ON WHETHER OR NOT MY GRAMMER or cApS hurt your eyes.

[Brian Ratliff]

Damned... you're lucky. Most hit-from-behind accidents are deadly. Whatever your lucky charm is; hold onto it and never let it out of your sight!

Was she on a cell phone at the time by any chance?

[genec]

Sorry to detract from the thread, but what is up with all the upper case letters in your commentary. Did you go to high school? Did you learn that only the first word in a sentence (except for "proper names") generally only are upper case? Do you realize how difficult your writing is to read in this fashion. Have you noticed that you don't have to hit the shift key for every word if you don't use upper case?

[-=£em in Pa=-]

Sorry to detract from the thread, but what is up with all the upper case letters in your commentary. Did you go to high school? Did you learn that only the first word in a sentence (except for "proper names") generally only are upper case? Do you realize how difficult your writing is to read in this fashion. Have you noticed that you don't have to hit the shift key for every word if you don't use upper case?

Totally meanspirited, unnecassary and irrelavent.
Not surprising though.


More on topic and relevant...

"I Was Riding On The Shoulder And Was Coming Up On My Road ( A Left Turn. Looked Behind Me And Saw That There Was A Car About A 500 Ft Away. I Put My Left Arm Out To Signal That I Was Making A Left Turn, Then I Moved Out Into The Road. "

Im very sorry to hear about this unfortunate accident but for future
riding practice riding on the shoulder and then moving onto the road
is a recipe for trouble, signal or not. As inconveniencing as it might
be, if you prefer the shoulder you should consider stopping until
its clear to cross as if you were walking.
I hope you heal soon.

[nelson249]

Sorry to detract from the thread, but what is up with all the upper case letters in your commentary. Did you go to high school? Did you learn that only the first word in a sentence (except for "proper names") generally only are upper case? Do you realize how difficult your writing is to read in this fashion. Have you noticed that you don't have to hit the shift key for every word if you don't use upper case?

Oh for heavens' sake. I am sick to death of the bloody grammar police on these message boards.

[Helmet Head]

I Put My Left Arm Out To Signal That I Was Making A Left Turn, Then I Moved Out Into The Road.
Classic. How many others out there think merely signalling your intent gives you the right to pull out in front of someone else?

Next time, please consider looking back and making sure anyone approaching is aware of you, and is yielding the right of way to you, before you pull out in front of them.

[nova]

And what will he get out of all this for his trashed bike ? Likly not a single red cent. If some one ever hits me like that their car will never be road worthy again i will make damn sure its totaled.

With that said law suit time and maybe just maybe youll be lucky enough to get your bike and bills paid for.

[chephy]

You are lucky to get away with only minor injuries after being hit from behind by a 55 mph car!

I totally agree about the inadequate punishment for drivers like that. They are being extremely careless, if not intentionally reckless and intimidating! - with a deadly weapon. That should earn them some jail time! At the very least they should have their licence taken away from them for life.

At least you messed up the little sh!t's car pretty good. :)

Sorry to detract from the thread, but what is up with all the upper case letters in your commentary. Did you go to high school? Did you learn that only the first word in a sentence (except for "proper names") generally only are upper case? Do you realize how difficult your writing is to read in this fashion. Have you noticed that you don't have to hit the shift key for every word if you don't use upper case? I think OP is trying to convey his shock to us. It works to an extent, but sure makes the post difficult to read. But hell - if this sort of thing happened to me, I'd probably be writing in all caps bold face...

I am sick to death of the bloody grammar police on these message boards. Well, and I am sick to death of the general ignorance and illiteracy that pervades the internet.

[genec]

Oh for heavens' sake. I am sick to death of the bloody grammar police on these message boards.

And yet oddly enough most of us conform to the basic grammer standards.

If one expects responses from posts, posting in a readable manner is a key ingredient. I did not question the spelling, nor the grammer; just the very useless and time expending upper case shifting of each and every word... which is not even cute... while typing in lower case has often been recognized as such. It is a PaIn iN thE BuTt to rEaD sOmEoNe'S CoMmEnTaRy wHeN tHeY cHoOse tO iGnOre cOmMoN cOnVeNtIoN.

[genec]

Well, and I am sick to death of the general ignorance and illiteracy that pervades the internet.

Thank you.

[nova]

classiC. hoW manY otherS ouT therE thinK merelY signallinG youR intenT giveS yoU thE righT tO pulL ouT iN fronT oF someonE elsE?

Next time, please consider looking back and making sure anyone approaching is aware of you, and is yielding the right of way to you, before you pull out in front of them.

Was wondering when youd show up in this thread to protect your precious VC
Ahh yes of corse some one is hit square on from rear while in center of lane and you find fault with them. All to keep your record clean of no one ever gets hit from the rear.

"And Saw That There Was A Car About A 500 Ft Away. I Put My Left Arm Out To Signal That I Was Making A Left Turn, Then I Moved Out Into The Road. With My Arm Still Out. A Couple Of Feet Later"

He seen a car about 500 feet back and moved in to the lane. 500 feet back not 5 not even 50 or 15 but 500. little less than 1/10 of a mile further back than a foot ball feild get the idea?

I know of roads shorter than this mine damn near is the one directly across jhonson road from me most deffently is. So by your logic if im hit from behind on one of these roads i wasnt always in the center of the lane instead ive only been on there for less than 100 feet. Sorry hh your logic does not hold up. Had he been center of lane after turnign off a cross street with her 500 feet or so back (more than safe to pull out in to a road with that distance he would still have gotten hit. Had he been on the road and she made her turn and was 500 feet behind him with him dead center of road again same thing smack on the ground bike trashed.

Your statistics just got a big red mark on them.

[rando]

OMG I am glad you're relatively OK. Your guardian angel must have been right there that day.

[flair1111]

yOu shOuld aT leAsT geT yOUr biKe paid For bY thiS Person. You goT reALlY lucKy!

[sentinel4675]

arreyonskyy,
I have a slight problem with your story. I am a traffic crash reconstructionist and investigate crashes like this quite often. If the speed limit is 55 MPH and she said she was going that speed, you changed lanes too fast if she was only 500 feet away. There is generally a 1 second reaction time for a young person. That means it takes about 1 second to recognize the need to stop. Using a formula to determine the time it takes to stop when traveling 55 MPH it showed that it should take roughly 4 seconds to travel 500 feet at 55 MPH. She lost 1 second of reaction time, that means you left her about 3 seconds to stop at 55 MPH. If she was going faster than 55 then you left her even less time.

[nova]

Off topic sort of but thats one of the new vacities. Do us all a huge huge favor and get good pics of the damage the bike has esp the welds and bends in any tubing and post them in the road cycling foru here. Im sure many will be intrested to see how it survived such a crash. Its the new walmart bike and seems pretty good from pics but a crash survivability pic would be great (use a better camera if possible please :)

[EricDJ]

If she was cited, then her insurance should be covering medical bills and the bike?

[CommuterRun]

Don't sweat it, arreyonskyy, your post makes perfect sense. All you were trying to do is stress certain points without the benefit of verbal speech.

somepeoplejustneedtolearntoread

Glad to hear you're alright. Here's a couple of links you may find useful:
http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/9204.0.html
http://www.floridabicycle.org/rights/crash.html

Go after the driver and her insurance company to cover all medical expenses and replace everything that was damaged.

[unkchunk]

Glad to hear you survived. But instead of getting angry it would have been better to ham up the injury, like World Cup soccer players, and then fake passing out on her hood with your face pressed on the windshield with glazed eyes looking straight at her. Finish it off with a simulated death quiver and it would freak her out for the rest of her life.

Wait! Even better is to store ketchup packs, quickly apply, then press you face against the windshield... and do a slow slide down so it leaves streaks. Extra points if you can get that sqeak sound.

[nova]

If she was cited, then her insurance should be covering medical bills and the bike?

should be sure will be doubtful. My brother had is 72 checy nova totaled by a just under legaly drunk woman with 3 duis (over the years) who had lic and insurance driving for airborn express. She was clearly at fault her insurance fought it tooth and nail all the way in the end my brother got nothing.

If a insurance company can weesel out on that they can easly do so with a bike. They will argue it to the point where his time simply is worth more than the setlement.

Remember were talking a walmart schwinn varcity a 200 dolor bike and probably 2 grand of med bills incoming soon enough.So 2200 bucks. Insurance will ither setle right off or fight till he gives up on it (or his parents dont know how old the op is)

[nova]

Don't sweat it, arreyonskyy, your post makes perfect sense. All you were trying to do is stress certain points without the benefit of verbal speech.

somepeoplejustneedtolearntoread

Glad to hear you're alright. Here's a couple of links you may find useful:
http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/9204.0.html
http://www.floridabicycle.org/rights/crash.html

Go after the driver and her insurance company to cover all medical expenses and replace everything that was damaged.


Well as for op i looked at his other posts and he does not do the same. As others have said hes stressing a point though be it a little over done. But hey guess what i got the idea and under stood the post with out isues.

Sence hes fine im now very instrested in the bikes condition with good pics. The thing is mega cheap and has been posts asking about it so im curious if this 200 dolor dept bike survived well how it was trashed i should say i dont think even the top of the line bikes could survive that hit heh.

[sbhikes]

Is it hard to Type Like That? And Why Do You Do It? I've seen this a couple of times and can't figure out why anybody would go to so much trouble. I can't read it. Sorry.

[john bono]

Will everyone just STFU and realize that the OP was a victim of the MS Word "feature" that capitalizes the first letter of every word? The guy got rear ended by some idiot who was yakking on her cell, is lucky not to be dead or turned into a vegetable, and the thing that gets you angry, really gets your collective goat, is that the OP has problems with his capitalization? To quote Bill Shatner--GET A LIFE!

[nova]

Is it hard to Type Like That? And Why Do You Do It? I've seen this a couple of times and can't figure out why anybody would go to so much trouble. I can't read it. Sorry.


Na Not So Hard At All Realy It Just Takes A Little Longer Is All.
Dont know if i could do a longish post that way though.

What i haeve seen in proffesional docs is stuff like this
This Is The Title I Typed Each First Letter To Grab Attention

Then the rest is dont with normal grammer rules etc More often than not first letter is capped and bold.
If you look at your local news paper you may see this alot same for adds in magazines and web site titles. In fact have a look at the title bar of your browser when you hit reply

Bike Forums - Reply to Topic -Mozilla (moz for me ie for you maybe etc)
Also look at things like mark all forums read members list etc all are caped first letter of each word.

[medfurd]

I'm amazed that none of you kids have pointed out that the CAPs lock filter was on. You can't type an entire sentence in capitals; the board software will change it to what you see.

[JohnBrooking]

Here's what I've learned about making left turns from a main road onto a side road (with no separate turn lane). I can't tell from your story if you did exactly this, or if it would have helped if you had, so it is not meant as criticism. I'm just sharing what seems to work for me.

1) Look back, if it seems clear, signal, look again, move if still clear. (That's two looks. It occurs to me just now, after reading your story, that one advantage of looking twice is that it probably helps you to better guage how fast the car behind you is approaching you than just one glance does.)

2) When preparing to turn left, move quickly to the left half of the lane, not just the middle (after step 1, of course).

Glad that you are okay, and seemingy undeterred!

[nova]

Will everyone just STFU and realize that the OP was a victim of the MS Word "feature" that capitalizes the first letter of every word? The guy got rear ended by some idiot who was yakking on her cell, is lucky not to be dead or turned into a vegetable, and the thing that gets you angry, really gets your collective goat, is that the OP has problems with his capitalization? To quote Bill Shatner--GET A LIFE!


Heh personaly im just helpng to lighten the mood.

Lets just say had i been at the scene the female dog proper term for one would have had more than just a dent and busted lite. Not like the op could help it if some pissed off cyclist totaled her car before riding off to call the cops. Hes just a victom and didnt trash her car had no control over others etc.

I just havethis bad feeling that hes gona end up getting the blaim for the accident andthis cager will walk away with no more than a "be careful out there".

[nova]

I'm amazed that none of you kids have pointed out that the CAPs lock filter was on. You can't type an entire sentence in capitals; the board software will change it to what you see.

Wth never knew this
Hope no one seen y test lol

[KenSmith]

First, let me preface this with I'm sorry you got hit, I'm glad you're resonably ok.
But, let's look at the whole situation. From your description of the accident, it does not appear that she drove across multiple lanes after you. I appears that she may not have reacted quickly enough to avoid you after you signalled and pulled in front of her. Sounds like an accident to me... not a premeditated attempt to eliminate a biker. Not defending her actions here, but I think we are losing sight that this was an accident. So, in light of the fact that she now has a screaming man in the street getting ready to throw his helmet at her, she rolls up her window and calls someone. Let me see, if I was a 16 year old girl and had just hit a guy on a bike, I might call someone and cry also. Sounds like a logical move to me.

Now, I'm not denying the seriousness of the accident, you definitely were struck by a car and could have been killed or injured very seriously. no doubt about that, I see the pictures. But at 55 mph, with you on a bike, above the line of the hood, you would have bounced off the windshield and ended up in a heap 100 feet behind her and not in the street screaming at her. At 55 mph, your 169 lbs would not have even slowed down that 2500 lb car. At 55 mph, it would have taken her over 100 feet in breaking distance alone, not including reaction distance. At 55 mph, you and the car would not have ended up in the same location.

Again, I'm not defending her actions, but we tend to look at issues strictly from one side, our side. One of my concerns with this is we look at this as "us against the cagers". This was an accident, one in which you both carry your fair share of the blame. She may be at fault, but I think you caused the accident. Accident avoidance is half your responsiblity. 500 feet at 55 mph is 6.2 seconds. I'm not putting my life on the line over 6 seconds. I think we all miss the boat if we don't learn from what happened here in order to keep it from happening again instead of getting on our "us against them" soap box.

Again, I'm glad you ok.....sorry for your pain and suffering... I hope her insurance makes good on the bike and medical expenses.

You may now throw stones....

Ken

[Bekologist]

glad to hear you are okay, i have a feeling you may be more sore in the morning.

Regardless of what the other jackstraps have to say about your riding, or criticisms of your riding,

IT IS SAFE AND ACCEPTABLE to ride on the shoulder of a high speed roadway, if a cyclist feels it is the spot for their maximum safety and expediency. there is no call to ride in the middle of a 55 mph road when there is a 6' shoulder designed to bike accomodations and AASHTO guidelines.

heck, its safe to ride a 1 foot shoulder, if a bicyclist determines that is the safest spot for them at any one spot in time and place!

what may not have been safe was, 1) expecting a car to see your signal and 2) expecting a signal and a shoulder check to grant you right of way, regardless of lane position.

I have NO CLUE how the rezident armchair vehicular bicyclists (RV=bike) would have ridden that differently, except boasting and fooling themselves and no one else, how, if it were them, they can make bad drivers appear and disappear by how they ride their bike.

[joejack951]

what may not have been safe was, 1) expecting a car to see your signal and 2) expecting a signal and a shoulder check to grant you right of way, regardless of lane position.

I have NO CLUE how the rezident armchair vehicular bicyclists (RV=bike) would have ridden that differently, except boasting and fooling themselves and no one else, how, if it were them, they can make bad drivers appear and disappear by how they ride their bike.

The first section of what I quoted is how anyone should have attempted to make this lane change, whether in a car or on a bike or in an RV, signalling and verifying being granted right of way (in cases where someone else might be occupying the same space or may soon be occupying that space). If I know there is a high speed differential between the vehicles behind me and me, I will never just change lanes. I signal and watch for signs that the driver sees my signal. I can easily see that a car's speed is slowing; it's more obvious with a higher speed differential. I won't change lanes until I see this indication that the lane is safe for me to take. It's common sense. Now, I will say that this much easier done when starting from the actual roadway (the "real" lanes on the road) than from the shoulder. Motorists just don't look for you on the shoulder and if they aren't looking they won't see your signal. I'm not saying one cannot make a turn from the shoulder but in my experience it is more difficult and the OP has demonstrated why. If I'm approaching a left turn on a multilane road, I'll take the right lane as early as I can reasonably justify because I know that the longer I stay in the shoulder, the harder it will be for me to get out (and I hate having to make pedestrian style turns).

[nova]

Why do people keep trying to shift blaim off the driver to the cyclist?

I mean realy lets see. He claims 500 feet behind him and he was getting ready to make a left turn as he crossed over to the left turn lane. I dont know what kind of trafic control is at this intersection but will asume trafic lite.

Then people fault the cyclist for pulling out in lane while she was only 500 feet back doign 55. Being that he was preparing for a left turn on to his road he was slowing down and the drier was likly or should have been already slowing down. I dont care where you live when you aproach a intersection be it stop sign lites or other trafic control you slow down. Hell you should slow down even when aproaching a intersection where you dont have to stop.

Fact is this driver did none of that and kept going at her speed and hit the op.

I think its just some CV zealots who are fearful for their precious vc trying to find fault with some one who was in the center of the lane when he got hit.

[sgtsmile]

I think Ken has it right actually. Keeping in mind that none of us but the OP were actually there, what he says makes a lot of sense.

Back in the day when I taught driving, I used to caution my students NOT to say sorry IF they were involved in a crash. This was not because they were not sorry, because what reasonable person would not be? But rather because they would be accepting legal fault blame for a crash and might harm their legal case. Let the police sort out blame, and apologize if you are found to be at fault. It might prevent a law suit (or encourage one - nuisance suits are not encouraged in Canada - in fact, if I remember correctly, you cannot sue someone in Ontario over a motor vehicle crash, although that might have changed.) I have stated in previous posts that in the overwhelming majority of cases, both participants in a crash are to some extent at fault IF there was something - like pausing to let a faster car go by - that could have been done to prevent it. I also used to caution them to stay in the car if a person was freaking out, and to roll up the windows and say nothing. Being the victim of an assault is not going to help the situation any. (@ the OP: I am not implying that you would have assaulted the girl that hit you - adrenelin does odd things to people. The shock of being hit and making it would make you understandably upset and the apparent lack of concern of the person that hit you would make you understandably angry. Adrenelin might just have caused her to hide in her car and cry rather than jump out into what looked like a confrontation to her. Very hard to say from my desk chair... All any of us can do is offer ideas based on our own experience and generalizations.)

[nova]

I think Ken has it right actually. Keeping in mind that none of us but the OP were actually there, what he says makes a lot of sense.

Back in the day when I taught driving, I used to caution my students NOT to say sorry IF they were involved in a crash. This was not because they were not sorry, because what reasonable person would not be? But rather because they would be accepting legal fault blame for a crash and might harm their legal case. Let the police sort out blame, and apologize if you are found to be at fault. It might prevent a law suit (or encourage one - nuisance suits are not encouraged in Canada - in fact, if I remember correctly, you cannot sue someone in Ontario over a motor vehicle crash, although that might have changed.) I have stated in previous posts that in the overwhelming majority of cases, both participants in a crash are to some extent at fault IF there was something - like pausing to let a faster car go by - that could have been done to prevent it. I also used to caution them to stay in the car if a person was freaking out, and to roll up the windows and say nothing. Being the victim of an assault is not going to help the situation any. (@ the OP: I am not implying that you would have assaulted the girl that hit you - adrenelin does odd things to people. The shock of being hit and making it would make you understandably upset and the apparent lack of concern of the person that hit you would make you understandably angry. Adrenelin might just have caused her to hide in her car and cry rather than jump out into what looked like a confrontation to her. Very hard to say from my desk chair... All any of us can do is offer ideas based on our own experience and generalizations.)


Me personaly if you hit me you had damn well better say your sorry. I dont give a crap about law suits against you cause i know that my chances of winning are next to zero and wont waste my time. If you want to have a driveable vehical you will pay me on the spot for my bike other wise your car may not be driveable after.

Corse half or more of the numb skulls here dont have a drivers lic or insurance.

Years ago the old fart that clipped my elbow when i was on a bmx had no lic or insurance had lost here lic 4 years prior fr a dui and had to retake his test from the begining and failed because he could not see well enough to get his lic back. Basically when they say tell me when you see the light and what side by saying left or right.

Just to clarify most of the numb skulls im talking about are the ones who pull bone head moves like for example the guy i clipped last night who turned right on to woodlawn and did so well in to the right lane. I was aproaching the stop so i would have been center of lane regardless of the road. On this road i trael at or slightly above posted limit all the time so mid right lane all the way. Any how i clipped his rear quater with my pedal had to unclip and use my foot to keep my self from going over the back of his car. So pedal put a nice long scrap along his fender and my foot put a big old dent just above the body line.

He looked at me i said hey got insurance? Then drove away with out saying a word i screemed yeh didnt think so moron got your plate number I didnt realy but i bet hes lots more carful from now on heh. I just sort of luaghed and went to the gas station to pickup a pop

Nearly forgot theres no way he couldnt see me if he was paying atention. I had my brothers 1mill cancle power spot light straped on and had a disk oer the center. Nearly as bright as a cars brights. For saftys sake i had it tilted down a bit so as to not blid any one but still be very visable. I realy need to get me a good lightng system. The damn spot light is so freaking bulky.

[vtjim]

Oh for heavens' sake. I am sick to death of the bloody grammar police on these message boards.


Heaven's.

:D

To the OP, that looked bad! You're lucky. Be careful out there.

[LittleBigMan]

arreyonskyy,
I have a slight problem with your story. I am a traffic crash reconstructionist and investigate crashes like this quite often. If the speed limit is 55 MPH and she said she was going that speed, you changed lanes too fast if she was only 500 feet away. There is generally a 1 second reaction time for a young person. That means it takes about 1 second to recognize the need to stop. Using a formula to determine the time it takes to stop when traveling 55 MPH it showed that it should take roughly 4 seconds to travel 500 feet at 55 MPH. She lost 1 second of reaction time, that means you left her about 3 seconds to stop at 55 MPH. If she was going faster than 55 then you left her even less time.
Here's how I see it:

1) It's reasonable to assue the cyclist might have been travelling at about 15 mph. (we don't know, that info. is not provided by the OP.) At 55 mph., the overtaking speed would have been only 40 mph.

2) Even at 60 mph., or 88 feet per second, it would take a vehicle 5.68 seconds, not 4 seconds, to cover 500 feet. At an overtaking speed of 40 mph., the time elapsed before impact would be 8.52 seconds. Add to that any additional time provided by the driver braking (which I assume she did, since the OP remains alive,) and you have sufficient time to avoid a collision.

3) The OP has learned a very tragic lesson in defensive cycling. I don't think he needs a "lesson" from us.

[KenSmith]

That's logical LBM
Ken

[nova]

Here's how I see it:

1) It's reasonable to assue the cyclist might have been travelling at about 15 mph. (we don't know, that info. is not provided by the OP.) At 55 mph., the overtaking speed would have been only 40 mph.

2) Even at 60 mph., or 88 feet per second, it would take a vehicle 5.68 seconds, not 4 seconds, to cover 500 feet. At an overtaking speed of 40 mph., the time elapsed before impact would be 8.52 seconds. Add to that any additional time provided by the driver braking (which I assume she did, since the OP remains alive,) and you have sufficient time to avoid a collision.

3) The OP has learned a very tragic lesson in defensive cycling.

+1 on that. Also figure that she is sensable would already be slowing for the turn or intersection. I did a little test of my own last night. I road out 1/10 of a mile on jhonson road and place my blinky on the bush there and counted the time it took for cars to cover the distance. They tend to speed on this road so im goign to asume 60 mph. The test section in question is a ever so slight down hill i can easly hit and maintain 25 to 30 on this section. Any how i not only timed the cars but also watched how they did when coming to the intersection. In all most all cases they slowed down some then picked up the speed right after. Note they have no stop sign here and the last light is way way down the road the next stop sign is way up the road about 3/4 a mile each direction. They were slowing only for the cross street even though they did not have to by law.

This tells me this is basic human nature if the person is atentive at all.

With this i willasume that had this lady been paying any atention to where she was at all she would have by nature cut her speed by a solid 10mph As she aproached the intersection/cross street.

To the op and you best be reading this topic heheh. Id liek t kow for the sake of my own curiosity what sort of intersection is this how far away were you when hit is this a lite or stop sign controled intersection or is it non trafic controlled as in no stop on this road?

Is it a t intersection or a full intersection? I just want to make sure before saying another reason its her fault.

[nova]

3) The OP has learned a very tragic lesson in defensive cycling. I don't think he needs a "lesson" from us.


If any thing we should learn a lesson from his accident as well.

From what i can tell he did every thign right or nearly so and still got nailed.

[joejack951]

Why do people keep trying to shift blaim off the driver to the cyclist?

No one is shifting blame. In the case of any collision, if one or more of the involved parties had done something different, then the collision could have been avoided. As we all know (or should know) it is easier to change your own actions than someone else's. If the OP had verified that the motorist he was merging in front saw him and was slowing down to allow him to merge then this collision would never have happened. It is also true that if the motorist had been paying more attention (wasn't there so I can't say if she was actually not paying attention but I'll accept that she wasn't) then this collision would not have happened.

What's more likely to change: getting every driver of a motor vehicle on the road to give 100% of their attention to the road and be on a constant lookout for cyclists, or for this cyclist to learn to verify that faster traffic has seen him and acknowledged his desire to merge by slowing down before he changes lanes?

[nova]

No one is shifting blame. In the case of any collision, if one or more of the involved parties had done something different, then the collision could have been avoided. As we all know (or should know) it is easier to change your own actions than someone else's. If the OP had verified that the motorist he was merging in front saw him and was slowing down to allow him to merge then this collision would never have happened. It is also true that if the motorist had been paying more attention (wasn't there so I can't say if she was actually not paying attention but I'll accept that she wasn't) then this collision would not have happened.

What's more likely to change: getting every driver of a motor vehicle on the road to give 100% of their attention to the road and be on a constant lookout for cyclists, or for this cyclist to learn to verify that faster traffic has seen him and acknowledged his desire to merge by slowing down before he changes lanes?


Maybe so but i know at least 2 ost that were tryign to shift blaim. one where they we saying she had less that 4 secounds reaction time. When in fact she would have had alot more.

Useing bad math to protect VC Sorry thats shifting blaim pure and simple. Yeh he could have maybe should have waited to see if she seen him. But with 500 feet distance aproachign a intersection she should have noticed at least the intersection and slowed for it. It typical human nature to do this.

[DogBoy]

From what I can tell the OP only did one thing wrong...not getting eye contact and a yield to move over. Technically we don't "HAVE" to do that, but I always figure its better to wait for a long clearing or be sure the driver is yielding to me than to be dead. I often ride on the shoulder of a county hwy with a 1 ft shoulder. There is a long gradual uphill and I make a left at the top. There is a light, but it rarely triggers since opposite road travel is quite light. I have to cross a traffic lane of cars going 50-60 mph to get into the left hand turn lane. The approaches I have taken are as follows: (keep in mind my speed is between 10-14 mph)

1. Road is clear, I move over into the turn lane.
2. Road is not clear, but a driver sees my signal, makes eye contact with me and slows. I move over, watching the cars behind to make sure they aren't going to zip around.
3. Road is not clear, no drivers will yield. I ride through the intersection and stop, get off my bike and position myself on the cross road, either getting in line with traffic or laying my bike down on the inductor to get the light to change, remount and ride across with the light.

To the OP, glad to hear you are okay.

Option 3 takes the most time and is annoying, but I'm still alive.

For the record, I don't think anyone here thinks the driver is free of blame. Clearly hitting someone from behind when you had time to avoid the accident makes you at fault. The concern I see from others (aside from grammar) is that there are things the OP could have done to avoid the accident, even if what he did is technically sufficient. I think the term many people use is being Dead Right.

[nova]

From what I can tell the OP only did one thing wrong...not getting eye contact and a yield to move over. Technically we don't "HAVE" to do that, but I always figure its better to wait for a long clearing or be sure the driver is yielding to me than to be dead. I often ride on the shoulder of a county hwy with a 1 ft shoulder. There is a long gradual uphill and I make a left at the top. There is a light, but it rarely triggers since opposite road travel is quite light. I have to cross a traffic lane of cars going 50-60 mph to get into the left hand turn lane. The approaches I have taken are as follows: (keep in mind my speed is between 10-14 mph)

1. Road is clear, I move over into the turn lane.
2. Road is not clear, but a driver sees my signal, makes eye contact with me and slows. I move over, watching the cars behind to make sure they aren't going to zip around.
3. Road is not clear, no drivers will yield. I ride through the intersection and stop, get off my bike and position myself on the cross road, either getting in line with traffic or laying my bike down on the inductor to get the light to change, remount and ride across with the light.

To the OP, glad to hear you are okay.

Option 3 takes the most time and is annoying, but I'm still alive.

For the record, I don't think anyone here thinks the driver is free of blame. Clearly hitting someone from behind when you had time to avoid the accident makes you at fault. The concern I see from others (aside from grammar) is that there are things the OP could have done to avoid the accident, even if what he did is technically sufficient. I think the term many people use is being Dead Right.

One thing that realy ticks me off is when i siggnal the driver sees me and that floors it so he dont have to wait. It always ends up the same way he stops lite goes green or he starts to go through the stop and im left waiting for him or her to get movign so i can cross.

One guy did that to be last week and was on a cell phone and just litterly crawling through the green light so i passed him on his left and just smiled and waved. He ended up sittign through another red was no trafic. Least he was smart in one thing. He didnt drive while on the phone. Would have been 2 for 2 if he hadnt torn by me first though.

[Trek Al]

I mostly hang out in the +50 forum so I may be a little more cautious than most folks in here. It looks like it was a T intersection and the car was not going to make the turn so she had no reason to slow down. She either didn't see him or expected him to remain on the shoulder. In this situation if I am on the shoulder and look back to see a car 500 ft back doing 55 mph I slow down and allow the car to pass before making the turn. It is just too dangerous to do otherwise. At cross intersections where traffic is moving slower and the cars behind me will have to stop, I take the lane, moving to about the left tire track in the lane. I then signal and make the turn when traffic allows. Bikes may have the same rights as cars but I am not going to risk my life to enforce this right.

Al

[flipped4bikes]

Thanks LBM, for doing the math. Whether there was 5 or 9 or 30 secs before being overtaken, I would definitely be more mindful of cars coming up behind when they are travelling at 55 mph. That's fast, and likely the driver wants to keep moving, and may just maintain his/her speed as long as possible. And that could lead to bad decisions leading to bad things to the cyclist.

[nova]

I mostly hang out in the +50 forum so I may be a little more cautious than most folks in here. It looks like it was a T intersection and the car was not going to make the turn so she had no reason to slow down. She either didn't see him or expected him to remain on the shoulder. In this situation if I am on the shoulder and look back to see a car 500 ft back doing 55 mph I slow down and allow the car to pass before making the turn. It is just too dangerous to do otherwise. At cross intersections or where traffic is moving slower I take the lane, moving to about the left tire track in the lane. I then signal and make the turn when traffic allows. Bikes may have the same rights as cars but I am not going to risk my life to enforce this right.

Al


Unfortunatly i cant see the intersection in the pics if you see something can you point it out please. Im curious to know how the intersection is set up.

[nova]

one thing i do see is she tried to turn at last secound least thats how i see this pic
http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=19821&d=1152746294

That tells me she wasnt paying any atention to any thing depending on the intersection she would have to stop if aroachign a cross street on a T intersection and by nature most slow down when aproachign a cross intersection regardless of stop signs flashign yellow or red/green lites.

[John E]

Heaven's.

:D

To the OP, that looked bad! You're lucky. Be careful out there.

In theology, Heaven is sometimes plural, as in "The Heavens Are Telling," from Haydn's 1797 oratorio, "The Creation." :)

[John E]

And yet oddly enough most of us conform to the basic grammer standards. ...
... grammar and spelling standards :)

[Trek Al]

Unfortunatly i cant see the intersection in the pics if you see something can you point it out please. Im curious to know how the intersection is set up.

Well I made a few assumptions and looked at the picture on the far right.
1. The car and bike are close to where he was when attempting to make the turn.
2. There is a solid white line behind the car which indicates the edge of the road with no cross street, so no intersection.
3. The lines in front of the car are one solid and one dashed, which again would not be found in an intersection. This would show it is no passing from the other direction and passing allowed from the lane the car and bike were in.

Al

[joejack951]

Maybe so but i know at least 2 ost that were tryign to shift blaim. one where they we saying she had less that 4 secounds reaction time. When in fact she would have had alot more.

Useing bad math to protect VC Sorry thats shifting blaim pure and simple. Yeh he could have maybe should have waited to see if she seen him. But with 500 feet distance aproachign a intersection she should have noticed at least the intersection and slowed for it. It typical human nature to do this.

For the record, no one is protecting "VC." I would not consider merging from a shoulder into a traffic lane true VC anyway. A dogmatic VC approach would have the cylicst not riding in the shoulder at all as it is not a traffic lane and in most states, traveling on the shoulder is illegal*. No one is chiding this guy for riding the shoulder so I don't know why you brought up "VC." Getting acknowledgement to merge is something that should be done as a basic survival instinct.

*I know that most states allow and a few even require on some roads that cyclists ride on the shoulder but most states' vehicle codes state that the cylicst should ride on the roadway, which the shoulder is not considered part of.