Australia - New Zealand - The Aussie thread. . . part cinq.

Sorry for turning TAT towards bikes again, but anyone got any good tips fer TT-ing?
We've got a club 25km TT on Saturday (undulating... yeah right, it's at Yarra Junction) and I've never done a TT before.
Since work/kids/catching colds has been high on the agenda lately, I've only been on the road maybe once a week fer the last 6 weeks... but I've spent 1-1.5 hrs a day on the trainer doing mostly aerobic workouts with a spattering of anaerobic intervals.
The biggest change I've noticed is how hard I have to push to get to 80% MHR compared to 6 weeks ago.
I managed a ride up the hills this week and noticed that I was climbing the same roads I usually take, about 2kph faster fer the same RPE, and wasn't tiring near the tops.
The motor's getting better :)

So... back to TTs.
How hard would you go out from the start for 25km?
Would it be ridden around LTHR? or is it short enough to pace it higher?
What sort of time would be respectable fer a C grade vet?


There no way around it.....this is gunna hurt....Wear your HR monitor & use it for 'pacing' your effort. Have a long warm up, 15 mins E2, then 5 mins just below LT, then 15 mins E2. Try to get to the start line as late as possible after your warmup. Because the TT is 25km, it's to short to be conservative & to long to just go flat out. Soon as you jump, go as hard as you can till you get to LT, keep your cadence up, I'd suggest you try & hold this pace for the 1st 3rd, try & control your breathing, don't 'pant out',then examine how you are feeling....if good, time to push a little harder for the next 3rd. The last 3rd should be getting up toward MHR (how long can you hold 95% +?). This should be the guide as to when you start to 'go'. Leave nothing on the road, absolute max HR to the finish....

Impossible to judge any sort of time without knowing the course, conditions etc...I'm sure you'll be able to tell us after the weekend!.......You with eastern Vets?....anyway, good luck & let us know how you go

Cheers Wilchemy, I had a browse through BBN's results anyway :)

Thanks a lot Hitchy, exactly the sort of info I was after (actually more than I'd hoped for :) )

how long can you hold 95% +? Best I've averaged was 92% fer 28 minutes... so 95%+? hmm, maybe 10-15 mins.
Yep, I'm with Eastern. Race report on Sat :)

The low HR thing, relative to percieved effort, could be because you're doing too many hard days a week.
If you're pushing (or over) 40, Joe Friel says that 'older' guys can only handle 2 or 3 hard sessions a week. In my opnion, the hard days have gotta be hard, and the easy days REALLY easy, like 55% mac HR for less than 80mins.

Pushing 40... 4 months to go :eek:
I'm not doing hard days, 6-7 hrs aerobic (70-80%) p/w and only 1 or 2 hard sessions.

eh, Hitchy's done more time-trials than me. http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/images/smilies/thumb.gif

I read recently that some sprinter types (fast twitch guys) just can't sustain their HR in the "90 percentages" for very long at all, no matter how hard they train. Flipper seems to be a bit a sprinter, so he might be a sub max HR time-trialer, which obviously isn't necessarily related to power output.
Yeah, I'm definitely not a diesel like some of the blokes at the club... they can just keep churning it out fer ages. I'm getting a bit better at that sort of riding, but it's definitely not a strength.

.
Yep, I'm with Eastern.

.......that being the case, the best pacing strategy I can offer is.....Lasso Guy Green's seat post & hang on for your life! :D

.....Lasso Guy Green's seat post & hang on for your life! :D
haha!! that's how I got 92% fer 28 minutes. Damn he's strong! ... and that effort was just rolling through with him.

eh Odin im in the same boat. In a month ill be doing my 1st 25 K TT and im sure its going to be a vomitron esq affair.

my plan was to sit around just above my lactate threshold for the 1st half then ramp it up a bit to the end to make sure i dont blow , followed by full sprint to the line? not a good strategy Hitchy?

eh Odin im in the same boat. In a month ill be doing my 1st 25 K TT and im sure its going to be a vomitron esq affair.

my plan was to sit around just above my lactate threshold for the 1st half then ramp it up a bit to the end to make sure i dont blow , followed by full sprint to the line? not a good strategy Hitchy?

yeah, the general idea is sound....but break it down into 3rds, rather than 1/2's....the real secret to doing a good ITT (apart from doing the training), is a good warmup, not just 'rolling' around, but actually giving the engine a bit of a 'Rev'....the closer you can be to your optimal HR at the start, the better off you're gunna be....ever do intervals?.....notice the 'lag' between pushing hard & actually getting into the HR interval?...this is what you want to avoid....so good warm up & get to the start line as late as possible

So... back to TTs.
How hard would you go out from the start for 25km?
Would it be ridden around LTHR? or is it short enough to pace it higher?
What sort of time would be respectable fer a C grade vet?

I'd pull the doona up to my chin and go back to sleep. Only poms and morons ride TT's (stage race TT's excluded) :p

eh Odin im in the same boat. In a month ill be doing my 1st 25 K TT and im sure its going to be a vomitron esq affair.

I'll be the guinea pig fer 25km TT newbies :) ... I hadn't gotten any further than LT fer the 1st half and step on it fer the last so your plan was ahead of mine.

I think I'll take the trainer with me so I can do as Hitchy said and keep my HR up where I want it and stay close to the start.

Found this on cyclingnews: (Steve Hogg for a 12km TT)

0-10:00 minutes - Warm up to high E1 for 5 mins and continue till 10mins @ 100rpm.
10:00-15:00 minutes - Up heart rate gradually to high E2 @ 100rpm
15:00-20:00 minutes - Up heart rate gradually to high E3 @ 100rpm
20:00-25:00 minutes - Back to E2 @ 100rpm
25:00-30:00 minutes - Back up to high E3 at whatever cadence seems appropriate
30:00 - 40:00 minutes - Get off bike, take it out of the trainer and walk bike over to start line and do as little as possible. What I have found following this is that I can go hard out of the blocks without problems. The above assumes E1 to be 65-75% of Max HR; E2 to be 75-85% of Max HR and E3 to be 85-92% of Max HR.

In club championship/age handicaps, I have to race against Guy Green and 4 other A graders.

You got aerobars?

Nope.

I'd pull the doona up to my chin and go back to sleep.
aww, I haven't raced in 6 weeks... getting toey so I've got to do something.

I'll be the guinea pig fer 25km TT newbies :) ... I hadn't gotten any further than LT fer the 1st half and step on it fer the last so your plan was ahead of mine.

I think I'll take the trainer with me so I can do as Hitchy said and keep my HR up where I want it and stay close to the start.

Found this on cyclingnews: (Steve Hogg for a 12km TT)


In club championship/age handicaps, I have to race against Guy Green and 4 other A graders.

...this is good, but keep cadence high, don't wanna 'wear' the legs to much before the ITT...you'll need 'em

Nope.

aww, I haven't raced in 6 weeks... getting toey so I've got to do something.


You haven't raced in 6 weeks, so you choose to do a TT first race back?

Better have a following car so someone can stop to pick up that lung you're gonna cough up.:D

what's wrong with floyds hip?
:roflmao:
post of the year.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?p=2819639#post2819639

William Chemy started it! :cry:


Awww...did not. :p

Enough of that you two, or it will be straight to the Naughty Chair! :D ;)

Sorry. Will try to refrain from such behaviour in future. :o But sometimes it's just too hard :)

Nah, s'orright, gives me an excuse to give you guys a hard time. ;)

Back on top of GC at Altoona after a fine 2nd place in stage 3.

Pl Bib Name Team Time Behind
1 204 Menzies, Karl Health Net Pro Cycli 5:54:39 0
2 285 Pipp, Frank TargetTraining 5:54:44 @ 00:05
3 200 Henderson, Greg Health Net Pro Cycli 5:54:55 @ 00:16

Enough of that you two, or it will be straight to the Naughty Chair! :D ;)

Now bend over the chair and grasp the legs. Mistress Matagi is going to have to be very strict :p

what do you think, I have Matagi's moniker/screen name/username/whatever changed
to "Mistress Matagi". I could probably dig up an avatar or two to fit the name. . .
course I might get banned for that but what the hell . . .

marty

Back on top of GC at Altoona after a fine 2nd place in stage 3.

Pl Bib Name Team Time Behind
1 204 Menzies, Karl Health Net Pro Cycli 5:54:39 0
2 285 Pipp, Frank TargetTraining 5:54:44 @ 00:05
3 200 Henderson, Greg Health Net Pro Cycli 5:54:55 @ 00:16

Good to see. Have they listed him as being Australian yet? :rolleyes:

Enough of that you two, or it will be straight to the Naughty Chair! :D ;)

Uh oh. Is that the uspide down thingy that 531 posted originally? :p


And as for you marty....Bad moderator! 3 x Hail Lances and then pray the Flandis for you! :D

Hey Odin, is it Steels Creek Rd that you are doing the TT on?


Won a junior TTT state title there with Blackburn in my early days....Gooldy was pulling 1000m turns coming into the finish.

lumpy course, rough road surface. tough work for young blokes.

what do you think, I have Matagi's moniker/screen name/username/whatever changed
to "Mistress Matagi". I could probably dig up an avatar or two to fit the name. . .
course I might get banned for that but what the hell . . .

marty

You do that, and I'll call in the forum equivalent of a thermonuclear strike (Koffee). :D

Bwaaaahahahaha. :roflmao:

Poor Koffee's earned herself a bad rap. Shame she doesn't have time drop by more often, she's good value once she gets into the swing of things. Although marty is pretty entertaining when he cuts loose. :D

Have they listed him as being Australian yet? :rolleyes:


don't you mean Tasmanian?




:D

don't you mean Tasmanian?


I love how some Taswegians refer to 'the North Island' or the 'Big Island'. :)

Ford pwns Ferrari

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/dragrace-theory-over-ferrari-crash/2006/07/27/1153816296126.html

I'm assuming there's a few ebay fans amongst you, and wondering if I can get some advice. 6 or 7 weeks ago I won a few items from a seller in the US, decent communication, but they never arrived. Standard airmail, no insurance, he provided a US Customs no. but it means nothing from this end. $130 bucks gone. Any suggestions? Then yesterday I win an item, I'm the only bidder, only to today receive an email that the owner sold the item elsewhere. It feels very unlikely and I think he's just pissed he didn't make more money.
I've never left negative feedback before, but want to for both of these guys. But then I'll just get neg'd in return, yeah?
Never had any dramas til now, then two in a row.

I love how some Taswegians refer to 'the North Island' or the 'Big Island'. :)


I love how we refer to them as incestuous, hillbilly troglodytes.


:D :D :D

"waiting for Hobart Dave to chime in to defend his family" :p

I'm assuming there's a few ebay fans amongst you, and wondering if I can get some advice. 6 or 7 weeks ago I won a few items from a seller in the US, decent communication, but they never arrived. Standard airmail, no insurance, he provided a US Customs no. but it means nothing from this end. $130 bucks gone. Any suggestions?

Always insist on insurance, or if you can arrange it some form of registered delivery that requires you to sign for it.

and always check the sellers credibility (# sales in the same sale area eg. bike parts, and feedback comments) before placing a bid.

As for the second guy, what he did is not allowed on eBay but the best you can do is report him and leave savage neg feedback. However, it's generally accepted that ppl do sometimes offer items for sale in multiple places but they have to say so in their eBay listing. If his listing didn't say so, then feel free to go for the jugular.

Expat has plenty of eBay experience

"waiting for Hobart Dave to chime in to defend his family" :p

:D

I'm assuming there's a few ebay fans amongst you, and wondering if I can get some advice. 6 or 7 weeks ago I won a few items from a seller in the US, decent communication, but they never arrived. Standard airmail, no insurance, he provided a US Customs no. but it means nothing from this end. $130 bucks gone. Any suggestions? Then yesterday I win an item, I'm the only bidder, only to today receive an email that the owner sold the item elsewhere. It feels very unlikely and I think he's just pissed he didn't make more money.
I've never left negative feedback before, but want to for both of these guys. But then I'll just get neg'd in return, yeah?



Never buy anything without insurance/registered post. They can just say they sent it and not send you anything. You could always try to get a fix through ebay, but thats always hassle and you would have to had used paypal, which is a minefield on itself. (remember never link a bank account to a paypal account, only use a credit card.)

Definately leave bad feedback on the second bloke but leave it until the last moment so hopefully he cant leave you any.

I think you lucked out. I hope it wasn't too much money involved.

I love how we refer to them as incestuous, hillbilly troglodytes.


:D :D :D

It's OK, I'm sure you're refering to inceston, not slowbart :)

the real 450 watts :D (http://www.popularmechanics.com/specials/upgrade/2736886.html)

Ford pwns Ferrari

Saw that last night.
I used to work at ford in Lilydale... wouldn't be surprised if the Ford was on a workshop 'roadtest'
There used to be plenty of 200kph+ 'roadtests' in that place.

I'm assuming there's a few ebay fans amongst you, and wondering if I can get some advice. 6 or 7 weeks ago I won a few items from a seller in the US, decent communication, but they never arrived. Standard airmail, no insurance, he provided a US Customs no. but it means nothing from this end. $130 bucks gone. Any suggestions? Then yesterday I win an item, I'm the only bidder, only to today receive an email that the owner sold the item elsewhere. It feels very unlikely and I think he's just pissed he didn't make more money.
I've never left negative feedback before, but want to for both of these guys. But then I'll just get neg'd in return, yeah?
Never had any dramas til now, then two in a row.

Have you checked that it actually went airmail and not seamail? Airmail from the States usually takes 10 days to us and we're rural. Seamail, well, one item hubby won on ebay took 3 months to get here.

As for the second guy, don't bother with feedback, just report him - says hubby, who is a regular user of ebay.

Ford pwns Ferrari

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/dragrace-theory-over-ferrari-crash/2006/07/27/1153816296126.html

Yeah, well, it's obvious he shouldn't have been driving a Ferrari, then.

yeah, the general idea is sound....but break it down into 3rds, rather than 1/2's....the real secret to doing a good ITT (apart from doing the training), is a good warmup, not just 'rolling' around, but actually giving the engine a bit of a 'Rev'....the closer you can be to your optimal HR at the start, the better off you're gunna be....ever do intervals?.....notice the 'lag' between pushing hard & actually getting into the HR interval?...this is what you want to avoid....so good warm up & get to the start line as late as possible

See, this is what I don't understand. Isn't that vigourous warmup just burning energy that would be best spent in the race? And as for the heart rate thing, my legs seem to work just as well as if they're coldish or up to working temperature. Obviously I've done no scientific studies but still... So what's the go?

BTW, what's with people being able to stay up near max heart rate for 15 or more minutes? On a bike I'd be lucky to get a minute out of myself. High HR's running is relatively easy (still can't hold them for long), but on the bike is impossible short of hillclimbing. Anyone know why this could be? No ticker perhaps?

I'm assuming there's a few ebay fans amongst you, and wondering if I can get some advice. 6 or 7 weeks ago I won a few items from a seller in the US, decent communication, but they never arrived. Standard airmail, no insurance, he provided a US Customs no. but it means nothing from this end. $130 bucks gone. Any suggestions? Then yesterday I win an item, I'm the only bidder, only to today receive an email that the owner sold the item elsewhere. It feels very unlikely and I think he's just pissed he didn't make more money.
I've never left negative feedback before, but want to for both of these guys. But then I'll just get neg'd in return, yeah?
Never had any dramas til now, then two in a row.

Get him to scan the shipping docket and e-mail it to you. Sea mail can be a couple of months

Too gross for me. One ep was enough.

Although I notice they use female models in future shows.....hmmm.

See, this is what I don't understand. Isn't that vigourous warmup just burning energy that would be best spent in the race? And as for the heart rate thing, my legs seem to work just as well as if they're coldish or up to working temperature. Obviously I've done no scientific studies but still... So what's the go?

BTW, what's with people being able to stay up near max heart rate for 15 or more minutes? On a bike I'd be lucky to get a minute out of myself. High HR's running is relatively easy (still can't hold them for long), but on the bike is impossible short of hillclimbing. Anyone know why this could be? No ticker perhaps?

It takes time for your body to 'turn on' the correct energy systems for work. So, doing a warmup of reasonable length and suitable intensity will 'kick start' the correct energy system for the task ahead minimising the risk of burning out early. Sure you're going to burn a little fuel, but it's easy enough to replace that small amount. If you've trained properly for 6 months or so then refuelling after a one hour warm up is trivial.

As for holding a high heart rate, that comes back to training too. As you progressively build up the intensity and distance of your efforts your body adapts. But you have to go through the pain over and over again, for longer periods to get the benefit. That takes mental toughness. If you don't have it, then you don't have it. You could try training for hills with a drill sergeant (as in "take the pain, soldier"), that's always fun :D

[edit] You could also stop watching your friggin HRM when you're near maxHR. It's only going to scare you off pushing hard. Your heart is generally only going to curl up into a little ball and die if it gets starved of oxygen or the firing signals get all screwed up. So if you are able to breathe and pedal at the same time, and you don't have 37kg of cholesterol build up in your arteries and veins, then it is unlikely that your biggest fears will be realised as you get near what you think is your maxHR. If in doubt, ride with a paramedic.

Thank you jocko. Even I could understand that. I do a lot of miles but I guess I never really "train". Would be interesting to see how my body would go if I tuned it properly. Don;t like the idea of all that pain though. ;)

pain is good. builds character, puts hairs on your chest.

So PSHAW< are you going to break out of the comfort zone and come race at Richmond this weekend?

... Don;t like the idea of all that pain though. ;)

There are rest days to look forward to you know :)

It's OK, I'm sure you're refering to inceston, not slowbart :)

The gene pool has improved 100% since American warships started visiting Hobart. As an added bonus some of the young kids born there in recent years have healthy looking swarthy complextions.

Hobart, the Rio de Janerio of the antipodes.:p

Already got enough hair on me chest. If it'd put hair on me head I'd be out floggin myself like crazy. :p

pain is good. builds character, puts hairs on your chest.



Spoken like a true Collingwood supporter.

There are rest days to look forward to you know :)

Aren't you supposed to look forward to the training? If I looked forward to the rest days I'd make every day a rest day. Me an willpower aren't great mates. ;)

review of the new XTR group : http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2006/features/xtr_first_1