Poor Burley...

[uber roadie]

I just heard that Burley Design Coop is closing its doors and is in the process of selling. Seems that a few years back a new MBA/CEO came in and gutted the place for personal gain. Now they're on the block. To bad to see such a great company go down.

[KnoxBreezer]

This may seem like a stupid question, but is this rumor, or fact? Seem like there has been some rumor mill for the last year or so about Burley having financial problems, problems with being able to secure parts, ect.

I'm assuming they're filling current orders?

[TandemGeek]

I'm trying to confirm from some other sources...

I believe I read a cross-posting from 'uber roadie' in the road or recumbent forums where he indicated that he learned of this new information from someone whom he knows that works at Burley in Eugene, OR. I have a couple of thoughts on this:

1. If this is true, I'm not all that surprised given the drastic change in business model that occured a few years back and all the subsequent indications that they were leveraged to the hilt and having cash flow problems.

2. If Burley wasn't truly headed into receivership or the auction block, a rumor like this will surely become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

3. There may be a silver lining if a "white knight" comes in with a good plan to return Burley to something closer to their original business model.

I'm sure we'll hear more over the coming weeks and months.

[KnoxBreezer]

I still a little worried about what affect, if any, they may have on current orders. If a company is truly in serious financial trouble isn't it usually a lot easier to "shut 'er down" than to fill out current orders? I'm obviously a little concerned considering we just put in our order for the Tosa last week!

Everyone I talk to can't understand how Burley puts out such a good product at such a low price. They could easily add $500 to the price of each of their tandem models and orders would probably not slack off one bit. As a consumer, when you hear this sort of thing it's usually an indication that you should take advantage of the current under priced products before the company raises prices, or as may be the case... goes out of business....

I don't know much about the company's history, but I liked the their mission. Handmade frames, in the USA, in a shop using evironmentally friendly manufacturing processes (according to their cataloge). I hear they used to be more flexible, able to offer custom options, ect. Success can be a killer sometimes, maybe that "White Knight" is just down the road in the Co-Motion shop ;).

[R900]

The OP need to back up his statements a bit more before I'm going to write Burley off. On the surface they seem like good company with some great, well placed products. The trailers are super, and the Piccolo tag-a-longs are well above any of the competition. From the forums the tandems seem to be both good values and well made.

As for being purchased, it seems like either Giant or Trek might be possible. Trek has a history of buying smaller companies, and building product in the US. Burley could help Trek by upgrading the trailers and tag-a-longs, and offering a lot more choice in the tandem lines. Giant would likely have the resources, and might be a way to enter the tandem market, but having a US manufacturing site doesn't really go with the business plan.

I hope for the best for the company, I have a number of Burley products and have always be pleased with quality and customer service.

John

[zonatandem]

W-a-y back, when when Burley first got onto the tandem scene, Hans Scholz (now owns/runs Bike Friday), designed and built their original tandem, the Duet, and some of the succeeding models. Then Burley started building the steel tandems themselves. Yes, Trek built their first alu tandems, as Mark indicates. They are a great company that is extremely environmentally conscious and builds a great product at a great price. As a co-op they had great employee loyalty and a very small workforce turnover.
Hang in there Burley . . . we're rooting for you!

Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

[waterrockets]

Yeah, I hope they stay around. I'm a proud owner of a Samba (still getting it fixed up), a Piccolo, and a D'Light. Of course, I bought them all second-hand, which doesn't help Burley any...

[BurleyCary]

I am sure that you are all familiar with Mark Twain's statement, "The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated." This is the case with Burley. We are alive and well, and demand for our product has been surpassing all of our expectations. Our biggest problem at the moment is being capable of producing enough tandems, trailers, road bikes and recumbents to meet the demand - thus the long lead times that some have unfortunately experienced.

As many of you know there have been a few changes recently. I can assure you that all of the transitions have been in a positive direction for Burley and with a motivation to maintain the values that we have always held.

If anyone has any questions or concerns, they are always welcome to call us, or you can email me directly through bike forums or at my email address below.

Cary Lieberman
Marketing Manager
Burley Design
cary@burley.com
866-248-5634

[KnoxBreezer]

GO BURLEY! It means a lot to know you guys are responsive to customer concerns, taking the time to put our fears to rest. I hope you are able to work through your demand problems, the people want their Burleys!

Now I'll sit back and patiently wait for my Tosa (it's the one you're shipping to Maryville, TN with a carbon fork... in case you want to umm... maybe bump it up a bit) :)

[waterrockets]

"The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated." This is the case with Burley.

YAY!

[rjberner]

I just heard that Burley Design Coop is closing its doors and is in the process of selling. Seems that a few years back a new MBA/CEO came in and gutted the place for personal gain.

A couple of observations here:

Mr. Roadie: It would be very nice to have more specific details while you are leveling these kinds of accusations. They can do great damage to innocent parties. We can forgive lousy data; we can't forgive maliciousness. Which was it?

Mr. Burley: It would be a great time to deliver a more reassuring and factual statement to the marketplace from the CEO. Burley's image is suffering and, unfortunately, we have all lived through the ENRON (who me?) era to believe a simple quotation from Mark Twain.

[vosyer]

Cary,

We will look for Burley at Bike Expo in Vegas in Sept - I am glad the bikes are still made in the State's - I know you could relieve the backlog by pushing some of the construction oversea's. I am sure you must be looking at some of that in the planning or alteast some sub contracting out of Oregon. As a general observation - the bike business is booming. Most shops have long backlogs, parts are hard to get at times - part of the new surge is the cost of gas, single speed popularity, lack of trained true bike mechanics - the list goes on. As tandem riders we compete in the larger area for the available resources.

Mike

[zonatandem]

Yo Cary

See y'all at Interbike in "Lost Wages" this fall and again at the El Tour de Tucson expo!
Looking forward to see what new you have to offer for 2007.

Rudy/Tandem Consultants

[Tweety]

Yep, it's no longer a co-op. I quit last year after 22 years-I just couldn't stomach anymore, what was happening. It's a real sad lesson on how co-ops can fail, by taking on unqualified members.
Don

[jmR&D]

It is heartwarming reading the posts from people who appreciate Burley products and support the cooperative business model that we spent so many years working to build and defend. That all ended recently with a vote by the remaining members to abandon the cooperative. They came to this decision through a combination of misinformation and intimidation: the model that has been in effect at Burley for a couple of years now.
Anyone with experience in the cooperative movement or the bicycle industry should be aware that posting falsehoods on an enthusiast's forum could come back to haunt you. Of course, one could claim that they are propagating lies for the good of Burley, but the question is-what is Burley now? Many former members who were terminated, or left in disgust, are wondering just that. If you choose to call the number provided by the current Marketing Manager at Burley I hope you get through. Take notes during the conversation, or better yet, ask to record the phone call.

[mudskipper99]

I ordered the Nomad trailer 2 months ago, and im still waiting. I just called Burley to find out whats going on, and they told me that some of the parts, the rims for the tires I think, have been sitting on the dock for weeks over in Asia somewhere. There was a shortage of shipping crates, I think she told me. That shippment of parts is finally on its way to the U.S.. This may be part of the reason Burley is so far behind on orders.

[TandemGeek]

Not that anyone cares, but here's my take on the posts in this thread thus far:

#1 - uber roadie: Not necessarily maliciously perjurious, but a bit oversimpified, overstated, and not exactly accurate in some respects.

#2 - KnoxBreezer: Good questions, but tough to answer without sensitive insider information.

#3 - TandemGeek: I've done my due diligence, have a pretty good idea of the history based on several difference sources and know enough to be dangerous, hence my lack of follow-up posts.

#4 - KnoxBreezer: Again, good observations. It's sometimes hard to tell the difference between "aggressive marketing" and "struggling to stay alive" as the symptoms are similar, but for very different reasons. As for a white knight coming from down the road, don't bet on it: white knights must have deep pockets filled with lots of cash, not just equity.

#5 - R900: Good point on substantiating claims; however, this is the internet and a cycling forum... most all that's posted here is hearsay, observation, or opinion. As for Trek or Giant, probably not... Neither one needs the brand recognition or Burley's market share.

#6 - zonatandem: As always, a nice trip down memory lane with a positive and uplifting closing.

#7 - waterrockets: Hope is nice, but hope is not a strategy. Let's keep our fingers crossed that Burley has a viable business strategy that protects the interests of all its stakeholders, past and present.

#8 - BurleyCary: Time will tell but, IMHO, I believe making this "public statement" was ill-advised.

#9 - KnoxBreezer: Nice touch working the angle on your pending order...

#10 - waterrockets: I always apply a wary eye to anything that comes from the hand or mouth of a marketing guy or flak (public relations / communications professional) and never take it at face value until I understand the purpose and timing of the message.

#11 - rjberner: Excellent observations and good questions... which will likely remain unanswered.

#12 - vosyer: Interesting bona fides

#13 - zonatandem: The ubiquitous friendly follow-up...

#14 - Tweety: Credible information based on everything else I've learned through public domain sources and from personal contacts.

#15 - jmR&D: Also very credible, as noted above.

#16 - mudskipper99: Credit holds, new supplier issues, high personnel turnover, lack of shipping crates (?)etc... I'm sure there have been many constraints that have delayed production and product deliveries. These are symptoms of problems, not the root cause.

[wholepair]

I worked as a member of Burley Design Cooperative for a little over four years. I started in 1999, became a member sometime in 2000, and left just before the summer of 2004. I took part in Burley Design Cooperative's profit sharing program. It was a 100% profit share that was paid out at the end of each year. Each member was paid half of what was due them and the other half was kept as working capital to be paid out in a timely fashion. This was a loan to the cooperative, interest free for two years, afterwhich, if the coop could not afford to pay your retained dividend back, you would get interest on what was kept. Burley recently converted to a corporation and all retained dividend due working and nonworking members was converted to stock. These are a few of the documents I recieved in the mail:

http://static.flickr.com/48/194180455_88dfe6b046.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jeffreygarman/sets/72157594205865086/)


http://static.flickr.com/48/194180465_2b1b5a2675.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jeffreygarman/sets/72157594205865086/)


I have four certificates that represent my retained dividend that was converted to stock in the new corporation. I wish Burley Design Incorporated all the luck in the world. I like my new certificates, I think they are very cute, but i'de much rather have my retained dividend. I am going to start a new thread that will be a poll with the question -

Will the new Burley Design Incorporated stock certificates ever be paid out?

Here is a link to the poll: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=212534&highlight=poor+burley

[$h@wN]

Wowee, looks like things are getting a little out of hand over their in Burley land. I too was a member until last year. I have to say that this comes as no surprise.

[DrPete]

This was posted on the road biking forum, and a rep from Burley chimed in and called it a rumor with no basis in reality, FWIW.

DrPete

[TandemGeek]

This was posted on the road biking forum, and a rep from Burley chimed in and called it a rumor with no basis in reality, FWIW.

Check out post #8 in this thread from BurleyCary (Cary Lieberman, Marketing and PR guy for Burley)... It's just about the post that you read in the road biking forum and there's also a thread on Burley that he responded to in recumbent forum.

[ElRey]

This sounds as if it lends credence to the post here pondering the posibility that they'll move some production offshore. I can't wait 'til I can get a taiwanese carbon tandem frame for $800

[TandemGeek]

I could easily imagine the Burley brand and product offerings going in several directions either remaining as a stand alone with an infusion of new capital, or following a 3rd party acquisition IF they can continue to leverage the brand's former heritage and associated cachet as they continue to redefine the brand as a "best-value" producer. After all, in the big scheme of things, the consumers that will matter the most are the ones who really don't care where their bikes come from so long as they can get more bling-for-the-buck, not the buyers who respond to the environmentally-friendly, employee-owner coop angle.

So, who knows what the future will hold...

-- Status quo...
-- High-end, made in the USA offerings with lower-end produced off-shore ala Trek
-- Frame fabrication off-shore, with "Assembly in Oregon" to retain some aspect of "Made in the USA"
-- 100% off-shore, ala Raleigh Cycles Ltd or "Schwinn" (owned by Pacific)
-- None of the above

By the way, the conversion of the current and former coop members withheld dividends to stock was a pretty slick move... I'm no accountant, but it would seem that in doing so they've just moved a huge liability into the stockholder equity column of their balance sheet.

[rjberner]

I get this creepy (yes, creepy) feeling that I’m part of a flock of vultures or thrill seekers circling above some struggling, perhaps dying, beast. The fascination of the struggle is too great to ignore. Once so vibrant and respected among its peers, this creature has now been abandoned to a lonely, mute struggle in some mysterious and insidious trap that everyone says should have been easily avoided. (Why, can’t everyone be blessed with the foresight of my 20/20 hindsight -- huh?) And so I find myself guiltily returning to watch the struggle -- groaning when the brethren finally begin to take wagers on the hour of its death.

I could be talking about FORD Motor Co. But sadly, I’m talking about a small company in Oregon with a couple hundred employees trying to do the best they can with what they have. I hope you never experience the agony of this beast firsthand – as I have. You remember the stone cold terror when the insidious flutter of our wings, the heartless silence of suppliers and customers, and the distant braying of eager money men begin to be heard – while everyone “consoles” you with: ‘Hey, it’s business dude, drive on…. don’t mean nothin’.’

Give ‘em a brake. Give them a healing prayer / blessing / good thought / whatever, and drive on……

[DrPete]

Check out post #8 in this thread from BurleyCary (Cary Lieberman, Marketing and PR guy for Burley)... It's just about the post that you read in the road biking forum and there's also a thread on Burley that he responded to in recumbent forum.

Oops... sorry. Missed that one. Kudos to Burley for responding to all of the threads! :)

DrPete

[TandemGeek]

I personally have no skin in the game with Burley and my sole interest in their health is tied to potential impacts on consumers who ask for advice on tandem or trailer purchases and for whom Burley is the logical choice. I can't exactly recall how many times I've either recommended, endorsed, or referred tandem and trailer buyers to Burley over the years, but it's a substantial number. The continued ability to do so with "eyes wide open" remains my motivation for pursuing facts surrounding what has now been a very long and apparently angst-filled transition from operating as a small cooperative to a conventional corporation as well as the financial health of their balance sheet.

As we saw in years past with Co-Motion and the bottle neck at their paint booth (which has since been resolved with the additional of a second paint booth), it helps ease the anxiety when you understand why products are delayed beyond promised delivery dates or normal lead-time spans.

It's also sometimes important to understand the basis of "rumors" regarding the health and long-term viability of a company when considering a relatively expensive puchase from that company under the pretense that current quality and service will be consistent with historical performance and, moreover, that they will always be there to resolve any future issues.

At the end of the day my ideal scenario for Burley would be that:
1. They remain a viable, stand alone corporation based in Eugene
2. They regain their status as an "employer of choice" in the Eugene Community
3. They continue to produce the vast majority of their tandems and trailers in the US
4. All former coop members who are now shareholders receive full value of their withheld dividend and any withheld interest payments related thereto
5. All shareholders who remain vested in Burley continue to see their share value increase as they burn-off the debt that was ostensibly taken on to support the development of their product lines.

Note: This is cross-posted to the "other" Burley thread in the Tandem forums.

[ronald jenkins]

Sounds like the Burley marketing department is putting their spin on the shaky status of their business. There's supposed to be a big membership meeting in a few weeks for ex and current members; supposedly to answer some questions about the future. This information was confirmed by several friends that left (or were forced out) in the past few months ... this is a far more significant business case than just 'disgruntled former members'.

My local bike shop also confirmed that the cooperative has been (or will be shortly) converted to a corporation to help deal with a possible sale and/or money owed to vendors and ex-members. Over two years of very poor management and sketchy internal financial dealings - where a few attempted to take advantage of the struggling cooperative - are the main culprits, I was told. Geez, and I thought this only happened to the 'Big Boys' like Enron!
Ron

[TandemGeek]

I am sure that you are all familiar with Mark Twain's statement, "The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated." This is the case with Burley. We are alive and well, and demand for our product has been surpassing all of our expectations.

Recent news from the Register-Guard in Eugene, Oregon:
http://www.registerguard.com/news/2006/08/05/a1.burley.0805.p1.php?section=cityregion

Noting that the comments from Cary came to us on July 14th, here's a quote from the article pertaining to what was communicated to the co-op members three weeks earlier....



On June 26, Burley's board of directors sent a letter to shareholders, which was obtained by The Register-Guard. It said the changes "represent nothing less than a last-ditch attempt to save Burley - the jobs it provides for members, the contribution it makes to the community, and the excellence in product design and manufacturing that it represents."

After three years of losses, including a $1.5 million loss last year, the board of directors warned that "without dramatic changes, by early fall we fear we will have to close Burley's doors - forever."

[$h@wN]

Since BurleyCary is so fond or Mark Twain, I thought he'd like to try this one on for size:

"If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."
Mark Twain(1835 - 1910)

[ronald jenkins]

The dealer that was giving feedback on purchasing a tandem was probably also thinking about the current financial situation at Burley in making some of his comments not to buy. Just saw this newspaper article / thread on T@H:

http://www.registerguard.com/news/20...ion=cityregion

Very interesting story on Burley and the hard times they're going through. It appears that everything that the marketing department was saying about no new buyer, etc. was just smoke up you know where! We've come to expect P.R./Marketing types to put a favorable spin on bad situations; but outright lies are probably not a sound move on anyone's part if they really want to stay in business. Sounds like the cooperative no longer is ... too bad the current work environment isn't worker-owned anymore (really feel bad for the production people in general).
Ron

[rjberner]

My heart goes out to the men and women of Burley who make high quality, longlasting products for people and families to have fun with -- without leaving any traces behind. There aren't many businesses on this planet in that category. My hope is that they weather this storm, find a benign benefactor, and continue on in good health. Perhaps a consolidation of Burley with Co-Mo would make some sense, who knows. Co-Mo could do the steelies and customs; Burley could do the alu's and specialties.

No doubt they could be a Harvard B-School case study. In TG's reference article, the Register-Guard also stated: "With Burley's conversion to a more traditional business structure, the ranks of worker-owned cooperatives in Eugene - home to at least a dozen three decades ago - now has dwindled to a handful."

Worker-owned "co-ops" did not, do not, will not, cannot work, after the charismatic founders / leaders are gone. It's the reason the Soviet Union couldn't grow (market) wheat. And once in place, orderly conversion to a more heirarchical structure is impossible without a nasty coup.

[Worker_Bee]

So, do you know this to be true? Or is it just another rumor?


I just heard that Burley Design Coop is closing its doors and is in the process of selling. Seems that a few years back a new MBA/CEO came in and gutted the place for personal gain. Now they're on the block. To bad to see such a great company go down.

[TandemGeek]

So, do you know this to be true? Or is it just another rumor?

Quoting from the Register-Guard's article on Saturday...
http://www.registerguard.com/news/2006/08/05/a1.burley.0805.p1.php?section=cityregion

On June 26, Burley's board of directors sent a letter to shareholders, which was obtained by The Register-Guard. It said the changes "represent nothing less than a last-ditch attempt to save Burley - the jobs it provides for members, the contribution it makes to the community, and the excellence in product design and manufacturing that it represents."

After three years of losses, including a $1.5 million loss last year, the board of directors warned that "without dramatic changes, by early fall we fear we will have to close Burley's doors - forever."

So, technically, going on that information alone the comments from the employee to the OP may have taken it to the next step. If you're truly interested, read the articles and the comments from former co-op members in this thread. Draw your own conclusions.

[KnoxBreezer]

Early Fall... ewwww! I hope they can work it out. Still waiting on our Tosa... according to our quote time of 6-8 weeks we should have her here in the next 2-3 weeks. Maybe I should have the shop call up Burley just to make sure we're still getting it ;).

Holding my breath... crossing my fingers...

[Worker_Bee]

I would not take to much credit in a bunch of pissed off ex members who will not even give their names. Because they want to milk the company for everything that they think that they deserve. If you read the article it doesn't sound like a co-op more like a "me-op". If they didn't take all of the profits home and instead re-invested back into the company, it might be in better shape.

[TandemGeek]

I would not take to much credit in a bunch of pissed off ex members who will not even give their names. Because they want to milk the company for everything that they think that they deserve. If you read the article it doesn't sound like a co-op more like a "me-op". If they didn't take all of the profits home and instead re-invested back into the company, it might be in better shape.

Do you know who these ex-workers are, what roles they played at Burley, when they left and why? Moreover, do you know which of the original employees still remain at Burley and or how they figure into the current management structure?

Are you familiar with how the Burley co-op was originally set-up and how members were compensated? Do you understand what withheld dividends were, how they were used, what interest on withheld dividends is, and why Burley’s current management would have restructured the company and converted those withheld dividends to stock?

Do you know anything about the events that precipitated Burley’s departure from the original compensation plan to a differential wage structure and how that fundamentally changed the nature of the risk and reward structure at Burley? Do you know who has since profited the most under this differential wage structure?

How about the product line? Do you know where Burley derived most of its profits over the years? Do you know what happened, when, and who was involved in the decisions that precipitated the dramatic change in cash-flow and profitability at Burley?

Do you know why Burley’s long-time financial institution discontinued its relationship with Burley and what the implications of losing those favorable interest rates were on a manufacturing business that depends on extensive leverage and credit extended from its entire supply chain?

Just curious… as I can’t tell if you’re trolling or quickly read one article and formed several strong opinions that may or may not be supported by all of the relevant facts.

[ronald jenkins]

I posted a Register Guard article a couple of days ago, and just got this 'second half' piece today (wasn't sure of the best place to post it) ....
check it out:

http://www.registerguard.com/news/2006/08/05/10a.burleyside.0805.p1.php

Too bad that they had to incorporate to save themselves .... sounds like a real mess developed in the past two or three years with poor management from a few within the 'upper' levels of the business.

Here's the first part of the story:
http://www.registerguard.com/news/2006/08/05/a1.burley.0805.p1.php

RON

[Worker_Bee]

So were you one of the people that left on their own or were you ask to leave?

[TandemGeek]

So were you one of the people that left on their own or were you ask to leave?

To whom are you referring? Posting to this thread you'll find there is a mix of former newbies who have identified themselves as co-op members, a few other newbies, and a few list regulars (like myself )who have no current or past affiliation with Burley except in their capacity as consumers or enthusiasts.

BTW, and no one should take this the wrong way... membership growth and new points of view are always great to see on forums like this ... but has anyone else noticed how many new list members have come on board to post comments on this and the other Burley threads?

- Uber Roadie (purportedly a friend of someone who works at Burley) subscribed just to start the thread... actually 3 threads in 3 different forums and has since disappeared.
- BurleyCary (Cary L, Burley's marketing manager) subscribed to take a shot at squelching the rumors… and in so doing most likely threw gasoline on the fire with regard to several former members who subsequently signed-on (see below).
- Tweety (a former co-op member) came on board to confirm the change in business model at Burley in his one lone post to the forums.
- jmR&D (a former co-op member) provided a very nice, lucid post that also skillfully rebutted an early posting… tagged on to two other and then weighed in on Floyd’s hip replacement surgery on 7/25 before going silent.
- wholepair (another former co-op member) joined for 2 days and shared some interesting comments and images with us.
- lucylabrador (????????) joined just long enough to start a “motherhood and apple pie” thread on Burley – nothing factual or specific, just the have faith type message – and subsequently disappeared.
- $h@wN (a former co-op member) apparently joined back on October 9 and posted a few times and then disappeared until this thread came along. He has since gone back into lurk mode.
- ronald jenkins (??????????) shares some similar posting habits to the newbies connected to Burley; however, he started posting to the Hobbes list back in May looking for info on used tandems and, as such, seems like a newbie who doesn't have an obvious or admitted Burley connection.
- Worker_Bee (?????????) subscribed on Aug 7 and has posted four times thus far; three times on this thread and once on other related to Burley.

edit:Make that an even 10...
- ronaldjenkinssr. (??????????) I have no idea... This just gets more and more bizarre.


Just an observation....

[ronaldjenkinsr.]

Ronald Jenkins jr. has an axe to grind, son please just move on.
Ron Sr.

[NewbieIATandem]

Maybe we should all start a Save Burley fund. If we all became shareholders then we could have a say in how Burley goes in the future.

If we all put in $10 maybe we can get a part of Burley and save it from itself.

[TandemGeek]

Maybe we should all start a Save Burley fund. If we all became shareholders then we could have a say in how Burley goes in the future.If we all put in $10 maybe we can get a part of Burley and save it from itself.

FWIW, it appears as though the withheld dividends were replaced with non-voting preferred stock... not common stock. So, not even the former members will have a say in how Burley goes in the future.

However, as a consumer you are not without influence since every time you patronize a business you become a 'stakeholder'. So, if you like Burley's products and find them to be a fair value that meets your needs, feel free to 'cast your vote' through the purchase of their products. Fairly elementary... but worth reminding ourselves now and again of where our influence stems as consumers doing business with privately held companies and corporations.

BTW, as a subtle reminder of how another great name in bicycles did itself in (in C'dales case it was by over-extending in a failed attempt to develop dirt bikes & quads), here's a look at Cannondale's stock value. Cannondale was acquired by its largest creditor, a private investment firm called Pegasus Partners II, on March 20, 2003. Yeah, I'd think twice before investing in a bicycle company I didn't have a large personal stake in. Note: Executive compensation in 2002 at Cannondale for its CEO Joe Montgomery was around $550k, with the CFO Bill Luca not too far behind at $472k (I believe Scott Montgomery replaced Luca in 2003), and VP of Sales Dan Alloway at $291k.

http://chart.finance.yahoo.com/c/my/b/bikeq.pk

[jmR&D]

It appears that the subject of former Burley members has aroused some interest in this and other threads. We've always been a mixed batch, but nothing I've seen posted justifies the vitriol sometimes directed at those of us who have tried to add to the discussion, or correct some of the misinformation circulating. It suits the purposes of the new regime at Burley, Inc. to shift as much blame as possible onto former members. Don't buy it.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that, for now, former members who have posted here universally admire current Burley products. I use and recommend many of them myself. We also support the network of dealers nationwide who often felt like part of an extended family. Ditto for our customers.

Incompetence on the part of recent Managers and Directors is the most generous of the possible explanations for the mess they've gotten themselves into. But make no mistake, they've gotten themselves into it. They can't credibly blame the market, former members, the suppliers, or anything else outside their secretive, grasping inner circle.

[TandemGeek]

...They can't credibly blame the market, former members, the suppliers, or anything else outside their secretive, grasping inner circle.

And this story line is the one that seems to be the most consistent to a fault from all the various former members whom I've corresponded, seen quoted, or read... In fact, another former co-op members was recently asked via a posting to the Tandem@Hobbes listserve community to comment on the Register-Guard article. He just did so: http://search.bikelist.org/getmsg.asp?Filename=tandem.10608.0304.eml

[KnoxBreezer]

For what it's worth, our shop just informed me our Tosa shipped on Friday, 5 1/2 weeks after placing the order. Original quote for shipping time was 6-8 weeks.

[merlinextraligh]

I'm starting a collection of bikes built by now defunct companies. I already have 3 schwinns, now I can add a Burley Duet.

[mrfish]

I don't envy the lot of the cannondale or burley managers. The idea of making substitutable commodity products in the US is structurally unsound, plus you get squeezed by Shimano whenever they choose. Workers want to get paid more plus Retailers are also consolidating, meaning you're stuck in the middle.

What was the relevance of the executive comp at Cannondale? Bad managers get paid a lot? Underpaid managers are crummy? You don't earn much in the bike industry?

[TandemGeek]

I'm starting a collection of bikes built by now defunct companies. I already have 3 schwinns, now I can add a Burley Duet.

I suspect Burley's brand will prevail... as to what form "the company" will take, that's up for debate.

In the past, a great deal of their cachet has been the co-op heritage and the "Made in the USA" image that resonated with a lot of niche product buyers like tandem and trailer consumers... and more recently the 'bent riders. However, given their shift to what must be lower margins on "best value" tandems at all equipment levels and their decision to pursue the single bike market, it would appear that they were already posturing to cut into some of Trek's and Cannondale's marketshare.

It's also worthwhile to note that Trek has already tested the waters and is demonstrating they can successfully market Trek-branded bikes produced off-shore without too much (if any) splash back from consumers who closely tie the Trek brand name to its "Made in the USA" Waterloo, WI, heritage. Interestingly enough, I believe Burley has also tested these same waters with their aluminum Zydeco "entry level" tandem frame which they have outsourced to an off-shore fabricator. In other words, Burley already has a pipeline in place to support a shift in the percentage of domestic vs off-shore production output which could easily be leveraged to cut operating costs or to boost margins on select product offerings... perhaps even a line of products that would provide additional base to sustain the existing US-based operations which would continue to focus on those higher-end niche-products that benefit from the "Made in the USA" cachet similar to Trek.

Of course, the value of my analysis & prognostications combined with about $3.00 will get you a cup of coffee at a Starbucks in Eugene, OR.

[TandemGeek]

What was the relevance of the executive comp at Cannondale? Bad managers get paid a lot? Underpaid managers are crummy? You don't earn much in the bike industry?

It was neither high nor low. In fact, base compenstation at C'dale in 2002 was on par for its Top 3 employees (CEO, CFO, etc..) when compared to other companies in their region and the US with comparative annual revenues ($50M - $200M range w/C'dale at $157M). Long Term Incentives and Option Income at C'dale in '02 was, coincidentally, relatively low as you'd expect which accounts for the biggest difference in total annual compenstation when compared with their peers.

In other words, "market-based compenstation" is what it is. Firms must offer salaries that are competitive to attract and to retain top performers. Company performance will not usually affect base compensation, although traditional forms of performance incentive pay can fail to materialize if company performance is lacking and/or the top managers can find themselves being replaced... assuming they are held accountable by a Board of Directors or shareholders.

Note: Based on published data, I believe the higher end of annual sales figures I've seen for Burley have traditionally been closer to $10M.

[rjberner]

I’m always darkly amused when companies in overcrowded markets beat themselves (employees and fellow workers) to a bloody pulp when market forces beyond their control threaten their existence. It happens in every industry. The high-end single bike market, the high-end tandem market, and the recumbent market, are extremely fractionated and supersaturated with manufacturers. It should be no surprise to anyone when these companies struggle desperately to stay alive. When you layer on the organizational and compensation issues endemic with a co-op structure at Burley, one could be (pleasantly) surprised that things haven’t “gone postal” out there in Eugene.

I don’t know the forward-looking demographics of high-end bicycle purchase and I wonder if anyone does now that the sport is fast eluding a second generation. But I would venture that at least half of the developed world’s output could disappear tomorrow without causing a ripple in the bike purchasing world because the market is entrenched in $599 to $899 “easy chair” bikes made in Asia. I would also venture that just one of the big three US tandem makers could ramp up slightly to satisfy the North American market for new tandems costing anywhere from $2500 to $10,000.

So we watch an often repeated business soap opera when too many companies chase too few customers. We watch them do silly things like flood the markets with even more high-end single bikes, or motorcycles, or captive branding, in vain and futile plays in the take-away game.

Burley could probably survive handsomely if they developed and marketed innovative airline aluminum baggage conveyors with integrated liquid and solid bomb detectors. Or invented a small, inert device that would allow us all to fly naked and not by seen. Ten years from now people would marvel that Burley was the company that got its start making great tandems and bike trailers.