Living Car Free - Mother of Two Killed By . . . Well, 2 Tons Of Steel Driven By A Moron

http://www.startribune.com/462/story/554722.html

Absolutely ghastly in every respect.

Yeah that is sick. Everyone in a hurry to get nowhere.

This link:

http://blog.lib.umn.edu/thil0020/carfreelife/

had a good term for it: Collateral damage of the car culture.

Illinois has had so many road workers run over by moron drivers that
it is now a felony (14 yrs) & a fine if you even hit (or brush by) worker
in a work zone.

To my thoughts it should be the same way for cyclist. Cyclist / pedestrians
NEED some higher level of protection to punish moron drivers for not
driving in a manner that pilots the vehicle correctly. A law similar to our
worker protection law might just do it.

"He was not arrested."

Illinois has had so many road workers run over by moron drivers that
it is now a felony (14 yrs) & a fine if you even hit (or brush by) worker
in a work zone.

To my thoughts it should be the same way for cyclist. Cyclist / pedestrians
NEED some higher level of protection to punish moron drivers for not
driving in a manner that pilots the vehicle correctly. A law similar to our
worker protection law might just do it.

Yea. It's just that the driver's excuse in 100% of the cases of this that I've ever seen was always, "(S)he jumped right out in front of me!" (Which, to be fair, probably happens plenty - I've seen some unbelievably bad cyclists out there doing dangerous things and just barely escaping the last moment of their lives.)

If you want to get away with murder in the US, just run a pedestrian/cyclist over with your car and claim they jumped in front of you. Make sure you don't drive away from the scene and that you haven't been drinking.

I personally need to learn from this thread. I am asking my boss to prohibit cellphone use while driving.
He argues, time is too expensive. It is going to be hard but I need to do it on my own. Job or no job.
I have been sleeping on this cellphone thing long enough, thank you all.
Before I came to this forum I never knew there were such die hard cicylists, carless people.

While I lean toward the popular view here I must also say that our country is sick. We have let glutony and laziness poison our society. It is so common place for us to reach 16 years of age and get behind that wheel. No other county is as bad as us. That 6 lane freeway is a MONSTER, it polutes the air, it eats our tax $, it has killed our polar ice caps, it has ruined our childrens future.
The view points you all write here need to be read by the rest of the country.
People do not realize that you can ride 15 miles to work and do it in short time.
You can haul groceries home from the store.
I wish I could put a big bumper sticker on my bike but I can't. My Jersy will have to do.
I would like to see a good slogan on Tshirts, it has to change somewhere.

It's sad we are such a minority that we have to go to the internet to find birds of the same feather.

Wow, how could I have missed hearing about that? It's literally blocks from my house...

I think I need to email some people and hope it results in prosecution...

Throw your TV at your car

Alekhine ,,

this old Baptist got one word for what you just said.
AMEN!

Throw your TV at your car

Alekhine ,,

this old Baptist got one word for what you just said.
AMEN!

:)

I've never actually done that, or seen anyone do it, but I'd kind of like to.

One thing I noticed was that, even if she hadn't been there the guy still would have ran right into a landscaping wall. How inattentive can one be?

Why do we need vehicles--a truck!--that can accelerate so quickly? There is no earthly reason for them to be so powerful and fast.

I've been carfree most of my life, but I only became hardcore anti-car when my stepson and best friend were both badly injured in a pointless car crash. I just learned today that my stepson is back in the hospital with complications from the crash 19 months ago. I cried with him when he told me on the phone, "I'm so tired of being sick all the time."

I HATE CELL PHONES! They're worse than sucking on a bottle of booze when you're driving. I'm convinced that the more you yap on a cell, the more of your brain is nuked.

I think the mythbusters proved that cellphones ARE worse than booze while driving.

We had a pregnant pedestrian killed recently by a truck smashing through the concrete guard rail of a parking structure... Not sure if a cell was involved, but it raises the question:

why do ALL 300 million people in this country need 1-2 tons of metal they can fling at 80+mph?

I've driven a car some pretty damn illegal speeds before I grew up and realized the pointlessness of it, but I'll say this: the rush of making a car go 90 is nothing compared to looking down at a cyclometer on a hill and seeing yourself go 35, or even doing 25 on level pavement.

Why do we need vehicles--a truck!--that can accelerate so quickly? There is no earthly reason for them to be so powerful and fast.



Not that I am in any way defending this guy in the Navigator, but there are reasons on this earth why people need a vehicle that has a great deal of power. I have a powerful truck that I use, not to impress the Jones', but to haul goats, horses, hay, etc... You can't do that on a bike or an ordinary car. Don't try to limit other people's choices because of a couple of morons. I would agree that anyone who has a Navigator is not likely to be hauling hay in it, and likely doesn't need it. Cell phones aren't evil, trucks aren't evil. People just need to have more respect for vehicles and their ability to cause harm and be alert when they drive them.

Not that I am in any way defending this guy in the Navigator, but there are reasons on this earth why people need a vehicle that has a great deal of power. I have a powerful truck that I use, not to impress the Jones', but to haul goats, horses, hay, etc... You can't do that on a bike or an ordinary car. Don't try to limit other people's choices because of a couple of morons. I would agree that anyone who has a Navigator is not likely to be hauling hay in it, and likely doesn't need it. Cell phones aren't evil, trucks aren't evil. People just need to have more respect for vehicles and their ability to cause harm and be alert when they drive them.

My uncle's a farmer/landlord and has always had a truck (though much of his light farming worked fine w/a 4-cyclinder nissan)

I agree, Farmers NEED trucks...Firemen, Police, and medical professionals need private transportation to get to their jobs whenever they have to because their jobs save lives and that kind of time matters. (and even then they don't NEED that private high speed transit ALL of the time)

do suburb dwellers who work in business/it/science/engineering/education NEED private transportation all of the time?

I think Roody's point is that the bulk of people just don't need that kind of power, at least not all the time.

According to police, the driver, alone in a Lincoln Navigator, had been talking on a cell phone as he was about to leave the McDonald's drive-thru.

He also might have been upset about his order for some reason, Lt. Dana Smyser said.
as if the fact that he was on a phone or was upset somehow excuses his actions. why not just accept that he was grossly negligent in the operation of his motor vehicle?



Yea. It's just that the driver's excuse in 100% of the cases of this that I've ever seen was always, "(S)he jumped right out in front of me!" (Which, to be fair, probably happens plenty - I've seen some unbelievably bad cyclists out there doing dangerous things and just barely escaping the last moment of their lives.)
true. everyone needs to maintain constant awareness of their surroundings. however, that motorists are operating heavy machinery means, to me at least, that they have a greater responsibility (for safely operating their vehicle) than other road users. to be sure, this does not exempt walkers and bicyclists from exercising due care when moving about, but too often motorists operate their vehicles carelessly, without regard for other users or their surroundings.


If you want to get away with murder in the US, just run a pedestrian/cyclist over with your car and claim they jumped in front of you. Make sure you don't drive away from the scene and that you haven't been drinking.
or claim that the sun was in your eyes. never mind that you, the motorist, should have been wearing sunglasses or driving at reduced speed given the conditions at the moment. it's just so perverse what people can get away with.

:)

I've never actually done that, or seen anyone do it, but I'd kind of like to.

How about the reverse of that?

Ant Farm Media Burnhttp://www.dim.com/~randl/antfarm.jpg
The Phantom Dream Car crashes through a wall of burning television sets before a cheering crowd at the Cow Palace in San Francisco

Ant Farm (http://currents.ucsc.edu/03-04/01-19/ant_farm.html)

Not that I am in any way defending this guy in the Navigator, but there are reasons on this earth why people need a vehicle that has a great deal of power. I have a powerful truck that I use, not to impress the Jones', but to haul goats, horses, hay, etc... You can't do that on a bike or an ordinary car. Don't try to limit other people's choices because of a couple of morons. I would agree that anyone who has a Navigator is not likely to be hauling hay in it, and likely doesn't need it. Cell phones aren't evil, trucks aren't evil. People just need to have more respect for vehicles and their ability to cause harm and be alert when they drive them.

My mother always felt that a car should have good brakes to prevent a collision, good handling to avoid a collision and good acceleration to escape a collision.

So I learned to drive in an Olds Cutlass wagon that would put most 442s to shame.

Not that I am in any way defending this guy in the Navigator, but there are reasons on this earth why people need a vehicle that has a great deal of power. I have a powerful truck that I use, not to impress the Jones', but to haul goats, horses, hay, etc... You can't do that on a bike or an ordinary car. Don't try to limit other people's choices because of a couple of morons. I would agree that anyone who has a Navigator is not likely to be hauling hay in it, and likely doesn't need it. Cell phones aren't evil, trucks aren't evil. People just need to have more respect for vehicles and their ability to cause harm and be alert when they drive them.
Why do you or any body else need a truck that can accelerate from 0 to 25 in the parking lot of a McDonalds? How quickly must one get one's goats through the drive-through?

Oh one other thing--Navigators ARE evil. Cell phones are merely annoying.

http://wcco.com/topstories/local_story_197163218.html

Supposedly the interview with the driver is going to air tonight, so that video should be up tomorrow or maybe even tonight.

UPN/Fox had a truck there when I rode by earlier this afternoon, so maybe they'll have something tonight, too. Though instead of opening with the story last night, they put it after people's summer cabins being threatened by wildfires and the price of gas getting too high. Really in poor taste, I thought...

...the rush of making a car go 90 is nothing compared to looking down at a cyclometer on a hill and seeing yourself go 35...


+1

I'm usually so white knuckled I wait until the bottom of the hill and check Max speed. :)

http://wcco.com/topstories/local_story_199010746.html


He says he was on a lunch break from his job at a local nursing home. But when he pulled up to drive-through he couldn't reach the window.

"As I was waiting for my food, I took my foot off the brake to reach for my food," he said.

He figures his SUV then rolled four to five feet.

"As soon as I took my foot off, the lady was right there," said the driver, who is originally from Ghana.

.....

"I'm grieving just like the family, but I want to apologize, I know an apology is nothing, but I want to apologize from the bottom of my heart," said the man, adding that he never wants to see his SUV again.

The driver says he was not talking on a cell phone or upset about anything at the time. Now, he says he cannot eat or sleep.

"I'll do anything to help the family. I don't care what it is," he said.

Police are still investigating. They expect it to be about 30 days before they determine if charges should be filed.

At least it seems like he's showing remorse...

The problem is not the ability of the vehicle to accelerate. The problem is the idiot who chose to yap on his cell phone and slammed down on the gas pedal.

Alekhine, that is so true, I'm going to tell everyone I know.... It'll be my sig of the week.

As for the incident, I blame it on the moron, not so much the vehicle. If the phone conversation was that interesting he should not have been driving.

A few lessons to be learned: For drivers - pay attention to driving, not the phone, your food, etc. Use extra caution in parking lots.
For bikers/peds - stay away from McDonalds.

The problem is not the ability of the vehicle to accelerate. The problem is the idiot who chose to yap on his cell phone and slammed down on the gas pedal.
Well the real problem is that they make these overpowered vehicles that have only one good point--they can compensate for a small dick. RAF pilots were carefully selected and trained to handle big fast vehicles. These trucks have more horsepower than the fighter planes that saved democracy in the Battle of Britain, but anybody who's feeling penilely challenged is allowed to pilot one. Nobody needs 400 horsepower to pick up a double cheeseburger--even if they're hauling a dozen goats on icy roads to put out a fire while eating a happy meal and talking on the phone to their plastic surgeon (You know--about the penile implant). Not to mention that they're consuming half a gallon of $3 gas while waiting in line for them to super-size it.

Well the real problem is that they make these overpowered vehicles that have only one good point--they can compensate for a small dick. RAF pilots were carefully selected and trained to handle big fast vehicles. These trucks have more horsepower than the fighter planes that saved democracy in the Battle of Britain, but anybody who's feeling penilely challenged is allowed to pilot one. Nobody needs 400 horsepower to pick up a double cheeseburger--even if they're hauling a dozen goats on icy roads to put out a fire while eating a happy meal and talking on the phone to their plastic surgeon (You know--about the penile implant). Not to mention that they're consuming half a gallon of $3 gas while waiting in line for them to super-size it.

Roody,
Great point. It's too bad you don't have to demonstrate that same competence and proficiency to drive a car that you do to fly an aircraft. That would certainly thin out a few of the whistledicks on the highways. I never could understand how showing-up with $14.00 in your hand at the Secretary of State office qualified a person to sail 2 tons of steel down the highway at 70 mph.

W.P.

Roody,
Great point. It's too bad you don't have to demonstrate that same competence and proficiency to drive a car that you do to fly an aircraft. That would certainly thin out a few of the whistledicks on the highways. I never could understand how showing-up with $14.00 in your hand at the Secretary of State office qualified a person to sail 2 tons of steel down the highway at 70 mph.

W.P.
Will, ever since I started riding a bike everywhere, my big problem is not how stupid the cagers are--actually I think most are pretty good, as long as they're driving a slow car. My problem is with how fast the vehicles go, both in the city and on the freeways (and of course in macD's parking lot). I think it is absurd that they are even capable of going so fast. They should be limited by design to 50 mph on highways and 20 mph in the city.The reasons:
Save lives
Save gas
Make cars less sexy and attractive so fewer people will drive.
Better design--a tool should match it's task.


Of course I know that none of this will happen, because people like to go fast, but this is how i feel. Stories like this happen to bring it out in me.

Modern vehicles aren't just faster, either. Most are so quiet that the driver has a hard time decifering his/her speed without actually looking at the speedometer. I was riding on the interstate with a friend a while back in his 2001 GMC Sierra C3. He was simply staring straight ahead while we talked, and I looked at his speedometer and noticed we were going 105 mph! That's right, and I had no idea until I looked. I would have guessed 70-80 at best. He was completely shocked when I told him.

[QUOTE=Roody]Will, ever since I started riding a bike everywhere, my big problem is not how stupid the cagers are--actually I think most are pretty good, as long as they're driving a slow car.QUOTE]

I guess you're not from the Flint area, then. I do see your point, though. Stupidity increases as the square of the velocity.

The good news (or bad, depending on your perspective) is that the price of gas continues to climb as demand slowly out-strips supply, and someday soon everyone will be riding bicycles anytime they want to go anywhere.

W.P.

Roody,
Great point. It's too bad you don't have to demonstrate that same competence and proficiency to drive a car that you do to fly an aircraft. That would certainly thin out a few of the whistledicks on the highways. I never could understand how showing-up with $14.00 in your hand at the Secretary of State office qualified a person to sail 2 tons of steel down the highway at 70 mph.

W.P.
What's even worse is that a senile, half blind, deaf, old fart with $14 can get a liscense and buy a 35,000# truck/bus based motorhome and pilot it down the highway at warp speed. WITH NO ADDTIONAL TRAINING OR LISCENSING REQUIRED!!!:eek:

Aaron:)

http://www.startribune.com/462/story/554722.html

Absolutely ghastly in every respect.

Sounds like what happened to sydney with the text messaging teen. To be honest, cell phone use in cars should not be allowed. Most, but not all, drivers are seriously sidetracked by cell phone use. You should have your mind totally on the road when behind the wheel of a vehicle.

Tim

lincoln navigator...judge, jury, executioner

I still think you guys are probably over-reacting. I've seen where it happened. There's about 8 feet between the drive up and the exit, and you can't even see the exit from the window in a car. Store employees and the driver say he WASN'T agitated or talking on a cell phone. He reached for his food, and his foot came off the gas. Implying maybe he was too short to be driving the vehicle. He looked forward, and she was directly in front of him.

Totally possible that he accidentally put his foot on the gas instead of the brake when he tried to stop after realizing he was moving forward...

I'm not saying it's right or that the SUV is without fault, but it DOES sound like this actually WAS an accident. I've looked at several other fast food places in the area, and they all have the same style door right in front of the drive through, except for the white castle, which has a railing to keep you from going into the car lane (you'd have to walk across grass, anyways) and puts you right on the sidewalk.

If anything, this should be a call to redesign the cookie cutter buildings they use in fast food. That door is there primarily for people who go through the drive through, find something wrong with their order, then take it inside before driving off to get it corrected. Or if someone has to wait for awhile (I know at wendy's at least if your chicken is out, it can be up to a 10 min wait for the next batch - I worked there in high school) then they'll bring it out to you through that door...

It seems like a very high risk area for anyone walking. Add a few seconds and a concrete barrier...

I'll take pics of what the doors/walkways are like if anyone cares tomorrow. Though it might be tomorrow night so that I can get pics from the cager's viewpoint too...

Yea. It's just that the driver's excuse in 100% of the cases of this that I've ever seen was always, "(S)he jumped right out in front of me!" (Which, to be fair, probably happens plenty - I've seen some unbelievably bad cyclists out there doing dangerous things and just barely escaping the last moment of their lives.)

If you want to get away with murder in the US, just run a pedestrian/cyclist over with your car and claim they jumped in front of you. Make sure you don't drive away from the scene and that you haven't been drinking.

Illinois has adopted a zero tolerance policy in construction work zones to protect workers from
getting hit. Hit a worker in a work zone go to jail. Period.

Maybe the restaurants should just get rid of the drive-throughs. They foster this stupid "car-as-home" attitude that gets people into all kinds of trouble. They also discriminate against us, since they usually don't allow bikes, even when the lobby is closed.

Illinois has adopted a zero tolerance policy in construction work zones to protect workers from
getting hit. Hit a worker in a work zone go to jail. Period.
I hope they have a trial first.

I still think you guys are probably over-reacting. I've seen where it happened. There's about 8 feet between the drive up and the exit, and you can't even see the exit from the window in a car. Store employees and the driver say he WASN'T agitated or talking on a cell phone. He reached for his food, and his foot came off the gas. Implying maybe he was too short to be driving the vehicle. He looked forward, and she was directly in front of him.

Totally possible that he accidentally put his foot on the gas instead of the brake when he tried to stop after realizing he was moving forward...

I'm not saying it's right or that the SUV is without fault, but it DOES sound like this actually WAS an accident. I've looked at several other fast food places in the area, and they all have the same style door right in front of the drive through, except for the white castle, which has a railing to keep you from going into the car lane (you'd have to walk across grass, anyways) and puts you right on the sidewalk.

If anything, this should be a call to redesign the cookie cutter buildings they use in fast food. That door is there primarily for people who go through the drive through, find something wrong with their order, then take it inside before driving off to get it corrected. Or if someone has to wait for awhile (I know at wendy's at least if your chicken is out, it can be up to a 10 min wait for the next batch - I worked there in high school) then they'll bring it out to you through that door...

It seems like a very high risk area for anyone walking. Add a few seconds and a concrete barrier...

I'll take pics of what the doors/walkways are like if anyone cares tomorrow. Though it might be tomorrow night so that I can get pics from the cager's viewpoint too...


the crispy chicken only take 4 minutes to cook... i think the others take 6.