Folding Bikes - Single or Multi-Speed Shifting Bike?

I'm looking for a cheap, folding bike to have when I go back to college; I'm pretty set on Dahon. The town I live in is somewhat hilly in parts, but I'm not sure if it's enough to require a multi-speed shifting bicycle. Most bikes I see on and around campus are mountain bikes. I had been looking at the Dahon Boardwalk 1, thinking about upgrading it a little (Big Apple tires, new seat, lights) -- after getting some more money -- but is that worth it? Do I need a multi-speed bike for where I am going? (I do think that after getting a bike, I'll want to ride around more, not just to class and work.) I know that I could take the hills but that it would require a little more effort with a single speed. Is the Boardwalk 1 a good bike to upgrade, or should I save a little and buy a bike with a better frame and other specs? Thank you for your time and help.

The S1 is a good buy for what you get, and the gearing (mid 60's if I remember correctly) is suitable for many types of grades. The newer models don't have adjustable handlebars, though.

If you want to go fast, you're better off with a lighter bike.

The S1 is a good buy for what you get, and the gearing (mid 60's if I remember correctly) is suitable for many types of grades. The newer models don't have adjustable handlebars, though.

If you want to go fast, you're better off with a lighter bike.

I now have been looking at S1's people have upgraded. How much is it to convert to fixed gear? I don't have much money (poor college student), and would it be worth it?

I'm 5'9", so do you think the adjustable handlebars would be a problem? I've actually never ridden a folding bike, and the closest dealer is more than 100 miles away...

Thanks again.

For almost the same money you can get a Downtube which is a much more versatile bike. I have a Boardwalk and for the money the Downtube I have is a much better bet AND it comes with a carrying bag which is a nice touch. The non-adjustable handlebars really are the pits on the Dahon Boardwalk. I upgraded mine to make it adjustable. I eneded up spending more money on it than the Downtube and I have less bike.

The adjustable bars are reason enough to buy the Downtube over the Boardwalk AND you get suspension on the Downtubes (at least front on most of the models). Yan at Downtube customer service is awesome too! If you are going to spend a lot more money than $200-$300 buy something else than a Downtube as you can more closely target your needs but if you want the best bike in the less than $500 range the Downtube is tough to beat.

Why go single speed if you are truly considering going that route? It wouldn't be worth it in most cases.

Sure it can handle being a fixed gear. But a more important issue is: have you ridden a fixed gear and know the quirks of riding fixed? Are you sure you want to be riding fixed in your terrain (moderate hills are probably fine, but how about steeper grades)?

If you're still serious about it, the best way to convert it is probably to go CRM's route and order a fixed gear rear wheel with flip-flop hub, and have them space it to about 110mm. The wheel itself, depending on parts and labor, may run you from $70-100 I'm guessing, and that's just for a rear wheel (unless you build it yourself, or get a friend to build it for you). If you want a new chainring, chain, crankset, seat, etc. be prepared to pay even more. I'd also invest in a decent chain tensioner as well.

As far as the stem goes, I'm about your height give or take 0.5" and I've found it comfortable lowering the handlebars about 1" from max height. But my 2005 version came with an adjustable stem, so I don't know how high the stem is on the current models. There are people here who have cut their stems to get a better biking position. You may find you need a better position, or you may find the height is perfect for you. If you go the cutting route, that's extra cost. A couple people on the Dahon forums have fixed an S1; they would have a more accurate picture.

I think Wav's suggestion is pretty sound if you're not the kind who likes to tinker and really need the gears. If you do like to tinker, then that's a different story. Another way to do it is to ride the S1 around a bit before you decide to do any modification. You can daydream about the mods in your more boring classes. :D

Honestly, I have continuously been looking at Dahon bikes and feel like my loyalty is to them. I haven't done much research on Dowtube, and I don't really like the look of their bikes. It is similar to Dahon, but to me something about it (the Font on the frame, plainly colored, plain black bag) makes me turned off by it. This may be silly of me, but style is important. And I have seen a few BMX bikes around campus, which seem to perform fine. I'm not too experienced with mountain biking and don't feel comfortable jumping into a Downtube, a first folding bicycle. I want to have known I made a safe, but fun (upgrades) decision...yes spambait, daydreaming about parts, which is what I've started to do already.

I saw a used, barely ridden S1 on Craigslist for 120; I'm going to ask the owner some q's and hopefully snag it. My first folding bike? I sure hope so.

Thanks to you both for your help and advice!:)

I saw a used, barely ridden S1 on Craigslist for 120; I'm going to ask the owner some q's and hopefully snag it. My first folding bike? I sure hope so. -jetsarefast


I am a happy owner of a 2003 modified Boardwalk S1 (purchased new). I am not very mechanically gifted as my major in college was the social sciences (my sister is the mechanical engineer in our family). But that did not stop me from converting my S1 into the type of bike that I wanted. I had the bike shop add a Sturmey-Archer AW three speed hub to tackle the rolling hills surrounding my house. Later, I added a Teckro handbrake to the rear. Soon (within a year) I will replace the stock tires with Kelvar ones.

So you can see, you do not have to do the modifications right up front. You could take your time and as money and need becomes apparent, you could do one or more changes as needed without braking the bank. As for the handlebar adjustment problem, for me there was no need to change it as I liked it the way it is. Just ride it, see if it works for you and if it does not, then modify. The S1 is not a performance bike. I did not need one at the time I was looking for one. It is good at what it does. A basic bike with alot of accessories thrown in. And I have discovered, alot of the accessories could be purchased at the local 99 cents type of store or even homemade (all my bags are made by me or purchased inexpensively).

Please let us know if you purchased the S1.

Obviously do what you think is best. I personally don’t find the S1 all that stylish especially when I line it up against my Downtube. Keep in mind the S1 is just a plain cheap bike in all that entails. I’d also be concerned about what kind of climate you ride in. I’ve had issues with my spokes rusting on my Dahon. The brakes are better on my Downtube as well than my Dahon.

If you can buy a used S1, I’d suggest going that route rather than buying a new Dahon. Don’t forget that a single speed provides a lot of limitation that you may not be aware of. If this is your first folding bike I’d highly suggest going with gears.

Maybe to put this all in perspective, would you buy a car with just one gear in the transmission? I never got all the hoopla over a fixie or single speed. Even if my entire commute was perfectly flat there are going to be times when I have strong head winds of I want to go fast or may just cruise at higher speed with a lower cadence. A single gear is almost a guarantee for always being in the wrong gear. Maybe it is some sort of macho thing that I just don’t get. Maybe it is my engineering background thinking it is totally stupid. Maybe it is like a placebo effect and the SS contingent get something mentally out of it.

Heck, why have a chain and sprocket at all. Let just go back to the high-wheelers with the appropriate wheel size…

It’s your bike so do whatever you like. If you pass over a Downtube you will miss probably what is one of the absolute best bike bargains in the folder universe. If you want writing on your bag take it to someone who does embroidery and pay them $10 to do it for you. You’ll still come out $50 ahead from buying a Dahon bag and you can put whatever you want on it.

I used to be really into Dahons too but blind fealty gets you nowhere. One of my best purchases in all of biking was buying a Downtube. One of my best moves was selling most of my Dahons. I kept one Boardwalk with gears and the adjustable stem. It is bike that if something happens to it I won’t be distressed and it gives friends a chance to try a folder.

Based on your situation it seems like the S1 is the way to go for you but be aware of the limitations you will have with it. On the plus side you shouldn't lose too much on it if you sell it but I think $120 is too high for a used one unless it is in excellent condition and virtually new.

[QUOTE=Wavshrdr]Maybe to put this all in perspective, would you buy a car with just one gear in the transmission? I never got all the hoopla over a fixie or single speed. Even if my entire commute was perfectly flat there are going to be times when I have strong head winds of I want to go fast or may just cruise at higher speed with a lower cadence. A single gear is almost a guarantee for always being in the wrong gear. Maybe it is some sort of macho thing that I just don’t get. Maybe it is my engineering background thinking it is totally stupid. Maybe it is like a placebo effect and the SS contingent get something mentally out of it.

Heck, why have a chain and sprocket at all. Let just go back to the high-wheelers with the appropriate wheel size…[QUOTE=Wavshrdr]

"I still feel that varable gears are only for people over forty-five.
Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer?
We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"

--Henri Desgrange, L'Équipe article of 1902

;) On the flip side...I just sold my Rivendell Quickbeam (singlespeed/fixed) to offset the Birdy Anthracite purchase! :eek:

It’s your bike so do whatever you like. If you pass over a Downtube you will miss probably what is one of the absolute best bike bargains in the folder universe. If you want writing on your bag take it to someone who does embroidery and pay them $10 to do it for you. You’ll still come out $50 ahead from buying a Dahon bag and you can put whatever you want on it.

I looked at some other pictures of the DT, and it doesn't look too bad. Though, looking at the full-suspension FS, where are the fenders/mudguards? I need those. (I can't show up to work with a stripe on my back.)


Obviously do what you think is best. I personally don’t find the S1 all that stylish especially when I line it up against my Downtube. Keep in mind the S1 is just a plain cheap bike in all that entails. I’d also be concerned about what kind of climate you ride in. I’ve had issues with my spokes rusting on my Dahon. The brakes are better on my Downtube as well than my Dahon.

I live in the Midwest, where it can snow in the morning and be 80 degrees in the evening. That's not much of an exaggeration, either. Anyway, I want a bike to ride to work, so I can store it inside away from the inclimate weather, also storing it in my dorm room closet when I'm "at home".

As for the bag, I saw another picture of the DT's and like the look now. But couldn't I just make a makeshift one with a painter's tarp and bungee cord? The only problem with that I can foresee is water or mud falling out and onto the carpet or floor, which would not be good. So, I do plan for the bag to get dirty; I want something I can clean. Is it hard to wash these bags?

The DT does have multi-speeds, compared to the S1, but it has Kenda tires. I'd like to either put in some Marathons or Schwalbes. But I would have to wait a while to get some money to do that, where if I purchased the S1, I wouldn't have to wait as long, if at all.

(What about studded snow tires? I saw some on sale for 29 a piece at Gaerlan. It does get pretty snowy here, and I could bike through the snow. Oh, that would be awesome not having to walk. But do you have to change anything else on your bike for this conversion, or is it like putting chains on a vehicle?)

I guess the hills where I'll be at aren't too bad, and if they are...just walk, right? I'm a fast walker in general, but I want a bike that can get me to work even faster. This way I'll have a little more time to sleep in before I go to work early in the morning; I'll have more time to hang around somewhere before going to class.

I've heard so much good about Downtube and Dahon.

You guys are making this a tough decision.

Please continue to persuade me. ;)

I am in the upper Midwest so I feel your pain with weather. You could easily stud the tires on the DT if so inclined. The bag is a high denier weave nylon and you can easily just hose it out if you want. If you want if will fold up into its little pouch and attach to the seat or the handlebar.

Get a set of SKS clip-on fenders and you are all set; cheap and they work well. It seems like the non-FS model might be the way to go. It has fenders (or at least used to) when I bought mine last year.

Stock tires are more of an mud and snow type tire than super low rolling resistance. Kenda makes some great tires so don’t over look them. I went with a set of shaved Haro tires and they are very fast one of my DTs.

I hope you understand I am not trying to slam Dahon in general. They are sort of like the Pontiac/Chevrolet of the folding bike market. This means you have a wide range and very few models are outstanding. DT is sort of like the Hyundai (2006 models) where you get a lot of bang for the buck. You get a very competent bike at a very affordable price but not an absolute top tier in any area except affordability.

As for walking, why bother with a bike. Better yet, buy a Xootr scooter. In reality it won’t be that much slower than a S1 under a lot of conditions and you’ll never get a flat. If I have less than $300 to spend on a bike, I’d look no further than DT. Once you have more to spend it opens up more possibilities and then I’d probably wouldn’t buy a DT EXCEPT if I wanted to spend less than $600 and wanted an internal hub. Then I’d buy one of their 2 bikes with the Sturmey-Archer 8spd internal hubs. These are a great deal at the $300-400 price range.

In the bike market if you have less than $300 DT is the way to go. In the $400-600 look at Dahon (but remember my point about internal hubs and DT). Above that you should really buy what you like such a Brompton, Swift, Bike Friday, etc. At the higher price points there are really different approaches to the bikes that allow you to see what niche they are targeting.

(What about studded snow tires? I saw some on sale for 29 a piece at Gaerlan. It does get pretty snowy here, and I could bike through the snow. Oh, that would be awesome not having to walk. But do you have to change anything else on your bike for this conversion, or is it like putting chains on a vehicle?)

Usually (if you have enough tire clearance) you just have to change the tire, that's it. The studs in studded bicycle tires mostly help on ice. In snow only, the tread of the tires has a greater effect than the studs.

I saw some studded tires on sale today (I don't know how good they are):
http://biketiresdirect.com/productdetail.asp?p=IKSFS

Get some gears. If you ever want to use your bike in an area that's even slightly more hilly than what you normally do, and/or when you're riding home and you're kind of tired and you have to struggle up that stupid hill yet again, you'll be cursing the day they invented the single-speed bike. ;)

More importantly, the Boardwalk S1 has been discontinued for awhile, it's just that a few bike shops happen to have a few kicking around. Conversions to add gears are not worth it IMO, unless you are willing / able to do it yourself.

The cheaper Dahons are passable in quality, and come with fenders, a rack and a kickstand, and IMO are one of the better looking folders around. You'll get 1000 - 1500 miles out of a $350 Dahon without too much trouble, and if you're in shape you could even use it on some longer rides.

By the way, can someone tell Downtube to invest a little bit of money into some professional photography? Putting a bike on a white sheet just looks wrong....

In the bike market if you have less than $300 DT is the way to go. In the $400-600 look at Dahon (but remember my point about internal hubs and DT).

Are you referring to the DT VIIIH?

Is the NS any good? Meaning, do I HAVE to have suspension for a multi-gear bike? What are the pros and cons? Thanks.

SORRY...maybe I should just ask Yan and save you time.

Get some gears. If you ever want to use your bike in an area that's even slightly more hilly than what you normally do, and/or when you're riding home and you're kind of tired and you have to struggle up that stupid hill yet again, you'll be cursing the day they invented the single-speed bike. ;)

As I was eating dinner, I remember a really tiresome hill I have to take every day to get to class. I had forgotten about it!


The cheaper Dahons are passable in quality, and come with fenders, a rack and a kickstand, and IMO are one of the better looking folders around. You'll get 1000 - 1500 miles out of a $350 Dahon without too much trouble, and if you're in shape you could even use it on some longer rides.

How do the DT's do with mileage and longer distance?


By the way, can someone tell Downtube to invest a little bit of money into some professional photography? Putting a bike on a white sheet just looks wrong....

Honestly, that's one of the reasons I've been turned off by their bikes. To some that's not important, but advertising is important to me (my majoring field).

Yes, the “H” model has the hub gears. The non-suspended ones are fine too. Actually they just have front suspension (except for the Mini- it has rear) and that helps out nicely. As for the overall quality it is about what you would expect on about a $500-600 folder.

I had a very high end Dahon ($1000 retail) and the DT wasn’t that far behind it in many areas of quality. The derailleur was about a step down and ditto for the brakes. Paint was comparable. Spokes were better on THAT Dahon but since mine DT has upgraded them.

How to put it another way, you pay about $300 (give or take a bit) and you get a bike that would cost you about twice as much if you bought a Dahon (minimum). Yan compares it against more expensive Dahons ($900) which isn’t a fair comparison (at least not when I bought my 2) but all companies engage in hyperbole. Having said that Yan has upgraded his bikes quite a bit since I bought my pair last year without a huge increase in price so the value became even better.

Would I pay $900 for a DT no way. $600? Probably not. At the price they are going for they are a smoking deal! They are a pretty solid bike for the money. They perform pretty well too. I can say that based on my personal experience (and your may vary) that a $900 Dahon might be 20-30% “better” than a DT but it costs about 3 times as much. This is a perfect example of diminishing returns.

As for Yan’s advertising, sure it could be better. I am not one of those swayed though by glossy photos and photo models. Yan did upgrade his website and that was a welcome improvement. He puts most of his time into making his products better rather than “wrapping” them in shiny packaging. You’ll find that most DT owners are very happy with their purchases. It saved me a ton of money by buying them. Instead of buying a crappy Toy-R-Us or Target/Wal-Mart bike every year as my kids grew I just bought DTs for them. I broke even the second season. Nothing like a great ROI!

What is a better way to buy? E-bay or Downtube.com?

I know that you get a 30 day warranty on the bike if you buy through E-bay, and you get a year if you get it from Yan directly. But you pay a bit more, too. I don't have much money to spend, so do the two make much difference? Is it possible to purchase extended warranty, or do I not need one altogether?

You've done your job well, swaying me to Downtube. Now I have to find the right one at the right price...

P.S. I haven't seen any VIIIHS on E-bay, Active or completed. So I'm wondering if they even sell those on there.

Honestly, that's one of the reasons I've been turned off by their bikes. To some that's not important, but advertising is important to me (my majoring field).
I do think it's a bit important, as professional photography shows that you are dealing with someone who takes pride in their work, and wants to present their goods and company in the best possible light.

I've got some other issues with the site and their marketing, but I have never used one, and thus am not in a position to comment on the critical issue of the actual quality of the bikes.



Only 1000-1500 miles?
As always YMMV, and the key phrase is "without too much trouble." :D I put 1600 miles on my Dahon Mariner before I felt like the bike was turning into a money pit. It's fine for use now as a beater bike, but not for the kind of riding I'm doing (150+ miles a week, centuries, the occasional tour etc).

IMO any $300 bike is going to have some cheap components that won't hold up too well over time / mileage. That said, I do think a bike in that price range will be suited for jets' needs. That is, as long as he doesn't try to do an A20 ride with his local bike club.... :p

For almost the same money you can get a Downtube which is a much more versatile bike. I have a Boardwalk and for the money the Downtube I have is a much better bet AND it comes with a carrying bag which is a nice touch. The non-adjustable handlebars really are the pits on the Dahon Boardwalk. I upgraded mine to make it adjustable. I eneded up spending more money on it than the Downtube and I have less bike.

The adjustable bars are reason enough to buy the Downtube over the Boardwalk AND you get suspension on the Downtubes (at least front on most of the models). Yan at Downtube customer service is awesome too! If you are going to spend a lot more money than $200-$300 buy something else than a Downtube as you can more closely target your needs but if you want the best bike in the less than $500 range the Downtube is tough to beat.

Why go single speed if you are truly considering going that route? It wouldn't be worth it in most cases.


Would you happen to know what the gearing is in the Sturmey Archer 8sp?

I never got all the hoopla over a fixie or single speed. Even if my entire commute was perfectly flat there are going to be times when I have strong head winds of I want to go fast or may just cruise at higher speed with a lower cadence. A single gear is almost a guarantee for always being in the wrong gear. Maybe it is some sort of macho thing that I just don’t get. Maybe it is my engineering background thinking it is totally stupid. Maybe it is like a placebo effect and the SS contingent get something mentally out of it.
Don't knock it 'til you try it, though my bias is that I'd rather have a full-sized fixed bike. I like the speed and feel of 700c the best.

Get a Speed D 7
has 7 gears, newer more rigid frame than the Boardwalk , its ligther as well...
comes with Lifetime Warranty

Thor

ps. forgot to mention
The Boardwalk is very much alive and is produced as we speak. Its not in the 06 catalog, but it is available from any Dahon Dealer

Thanks Thor

Would you happen to know what the gearing is in the Sturmey Archer 8sp?

Its gear range is about 300%; about the same as a Mega-range rear cassette.

As for the price on the DT, keep in mind that the price is somewhat deceptive. Basically you are getting the bike at an almost direct from factory price. To that end you are buying it what would be well below dealer cost of a comparable bike.

Ads aren't that important to me; personal ride review are. As for packaging, I sort of liken it to buying the store brand peas in the grocery store or the Green Giant peas. If you want your extra money to go into the packaging, be my guest. I want the money going into the item not it’s marketing and packaging. At this point the folding bike is almost a commodity. Yan’s focus is on a few bikes and he has put a lot of effort into them. He keeps his cost low and stands behind his product.

Compared to when I bought my bike and they were pretty new then, you have almost no risk! There are LOTS of DT owners out there. The DT thread here was one of the most popular ones here. Go back and read. Very minor issues (if any) and Yan has been very active helping people out.

There is no way I'd buy a Boardwalk if I had the money for anything else. It is that simple. I am not saying its a bad bike but for so little money more you can get such a better bike.

If however you do decide to buy a Dahon, Thor is a great guy. To bad Dahon has almost nothing that interests me any more.

spambait11 - sorry, coming from an engineering background there isn't much there to sway me to ride a SS or fixie. It just doesn't make much sense. I have no plans to give up the flexibility of a wide gear range to only save a few onces and have almost no improvement in mechanical efficiency. Better yet to go with a recumbent that has serious performance benefits over "normal" DF bikes. Then I have vastly improved aerodynamic efficiency without have to stay in an incredibly tight tuck to try and achieve it. My butt doesn't hurt after miles of riding and I personally can cruise several mph faster on my 'bent that I can on any other bike I have. To me it is more of a "cult" type following with very little basis in sound engineering. If you have hills they are a definite threat to your knees. Standing up on the pedals trying to drive too tall of a gear up a hill is the last thing my knees need at this point in my life. If you like them, then great. That is all that matters to me. I have no interest in having a bike with so little flexibility. Sort of like having rifle that fires only one shot. Dag nabit, why did they ever invent those new-fangled auto-loaders. My old flintlock muzzle-loading ball rifle was so efficient... :-)

So would the NS be a good bike for me? It is within my budget, whereas the HS is a little too much.

Downtube VIIINS (http://www.downtube.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1315)

I read in another forum someone saying they would love to get an NS and put a Brooks saddle on it, because they'd rather have that than cheaper suspension. (I have a Haro Shredder, so I'm pretty used to a harder ride.)

That might be a good option for you. It has racks and fenders and no suspension. If you really feel the need for suspension get Schwalbe Big Apple tires. One other plus is it has a water bottle holder mounts. I use that a lot. My Dahons didn't and neither did my Swift. So then you have to go buy a mount just to hold your water bottle. I like to use it to hold my battery for my lights.

Yan will treat you right. I am pretty sure of that.

That might be a good option for you. It has racks and fenders and no suspension. If you really feel the need for suspension get Schwalbe Big Apple tires. One other plus is it has a water bottle holder mounts. I use that a lot. My Dahons didn't and neither did my Swift. So then you have to go buy a mount just to hold your water bottle. I like to use it to hold my battery for my lights.

Yan will treat you right. I am pretty sure of that.

Sounds good.

I read in a forum that DT's are a little misaligned and what not when they come out of the package. How much does it usually cost for a tune-up? I was hoping to not spend more money, save for minor upgrades.

Truth is, I should be saving this money for school, but I believe it would be more beneficial to me if I had a bike; I won't spend most of my free time in my room. It will be helpful in getting me places faster, too. It's really tough to not want to buy so many things for this bike, but I'll have to be patient. Sorry, I guess this was more like me talking to myself, heh.

spambait11 - sorry, coming from an engineering background there isn't much there to sway me to ride a SS or fixie. It just doesn't make much sense. I have no plans to give up the flexibility of a wide gear range to only save a few onces and have almost no improvement in mechanical efficiency. Better yet to go with a recumbent that has serious performance benefits over "normal" DF bikes. Then I have vastly improved aerodynamic efficiency without have to stay in an incredibly tight tuck to try and achieve it. My butt doesn't hurt after miles of riding and I personally can cruise several mph faster on my 'bent that I can on any other bike I have. To me it is more of a "cult" type following with very little basis in sound engineering. If you have hills they are a definite threat to your knees. Standing up on the pedals trying to drive too tall of a gear up a hill is the last thing my knees need at this point in my life. If you like them, then great. That is all that matters to me. I have no interest in having a bike with so little flexibility. Sort of like having rifle that fires only one shot. Dag nabit, why did they ever invent those new-fangled auto-loaders. My old flintlock muzzle-loading ball rifle was so efficient... :-)

A lucid panegyric on fixed riding is perhaps an appropriate rebuttal to the above, or better yet, a disinterested disquisition on the relative merits of fixed vs gears, but as these arguments and counter-arguments have been flowing elliptically for years, there isn’t much worth adding. Consider the views of both fixie proselytisers and nay-sayers if you will, but patently, you will need to try it for yourself...

For a combination of pangyric and disquistion, see Sheldon Brown's fixed gear site here (http://sheldonbrown.com/fixed/index.html). A bad reason to go fixed is because cool messengers use it, but, depending on your situation, the reasons messengers use it may apply to you: low maintainance; easy maintainance; and light weight.
Jonathan

I read in a forum that DT's are a little misaligned and what not when they come out of the package. How much does it usually cost for a tune-up? I was hoping to not spend more money, save for minor upgrades.
A tune-up should only run about $50, and I would tune up any bike 4-6 weeks after I got it -- so it's not an "upgrade," it's just basic maintenance. If you buy a bike through a store, they'll usually throw in a few tune-ups or a year of service.

None of my folding bikes have suspensions and I'm fairly happy with them. If you go for a Brooks saddle, keep in mind it will be a rough ride until the saddle is broken in.




As for the price on the DT, keep in mind that the price is somewhat deceptive. Basically you are getting the bike at an almost direct from factory price. To that end you are buying it what would be well below dealer cost of a comparable bike.
True.... but you don't get a no-commitment test ride on the bike, or the typical "1 year of maintenance" that you'd get if you buy a bike at an LBS. Not a problem for those who can tune up their own bikes, kind of an issue for new riders.

On a separate note, I do not think that lowballing on price is as beneficial a strategy to one's business as you might expect. In my own experience, I've found that the some of the customers who hunt for the lowest possible price turn out to be very demanding, difficult, time-consuming and vocal; all they want is a bargain, and woe to the vendor who does not meet their inflated expectations. BF posters such as yourself are obviously different and folding bikes are a pretty small niche, so it's quite possible that DT is currently insulated from those type of customers.

I would not be surprised if the pricing issue is one reason why Dahon is not really publicizing the $200 Boardwalk. In addition to drawing sales away from the $300 - $350 bikes, it kind of tarnishes the brand.

DT is still a pretty new company, and obviously I don't have access to their books, nor do I sell bikes for a living, so naturally any business advice from me has its limits. :D And if they like where the business is going, more power to them. But I can say that as a potential customer, the presentation puts me off and the price makes me assume they're cheaply made. Sorry to say it, but branding does matter. If it wasn't for positive feedback in a forum like this, I wouldn't even consider recommending a DT....

A tune-up should only run about $50, and I would tune up any bike 4-6 weeks after I got it -- so it's not an "upgrade," it's just basic maintenance. If you buy a bike through a store, they'll usually throw in a few tune-ups or a year of service.

None of my folding bikes have suspensions and I'm fairly happy with them. If you go for a Brooks saddle, keep in mind it will be a rough ride until the saddle is broken in.

Sorry, I didn't mean it as an upgrade, I meant as a tune-up; The upgrade would be tires, longer rear fender, new saddle, etc.

I'll keep that in mind with the Brooks saddle. I had said that because of someone saying that in a forum, but it doesn't mean I'll do it.

Thanks for your help.

Wavshrdr,

Do you know what the clearance is on the rear tire of the DT VIIINS, if it's similar to what you have? The rear fender isn't as long as I'd like it to be for protection, so I'm looking at a Planet Bike fender from Gaerlan. I called Gaerlan and they said it may fit, but they've never put one on a DT, and to check the clearance when I get the bike. But I would like to get everything at the same time... :p

http://www.gaerlan.com/bikeparts/acc/fender/fender.html

Just add a mudflap to extend the rear fender. Almost any of the PB fenders should work if they aren't much more than about 2" wide. I have more than 2" on my FS models. I think making a rubber mudflap would help as the easiest option. Ask Yan and he might have another fender that might work better for you. I noticed that it was a little short too.

BG – I appreciate your opinion though I disagree with some aspects of it. I would rather have a well made product like my DT than to pay more money for something less well made just so it will come in a shiny little box or wrapper.

DTs sales are growing quite nicely every month from what I can tell so I am not worried too much about the long term viability of the company. Additionally so many things are standard components that it is a simple matter to replace a part should it fail with the exception of the frame. If you’ve seen their frames you will realize they are vastly over built in most cases.

As for price conscious customers being a PITA, that is quite true at times. If you notice that the DT prices have crept upwards on eBay which means there is more demand for them. It is also obvious that Yan sees less of a need to put them out on eBay as they are selling pretty well through the website now from what I can tell.

All I know is when I bought my DTs it was a much bigger risk or gamble than it is now. DT has built a pretty good track record of taking care of their customers whereas a company like ActionBent has such a spotty record while doing essentially the same thing.

I suggest everyone spend their money where they want. If you want to overpay to get some intangible peace of mind quality, be my guest. Look at the specs of the DT’s and you will see for the most part they are mid-range at worst but at a low-end price. Ever hear of the concept factory to customer direct. Soft of like what the Mattress Factory does in many states.

If any of you have studied business you will realize that at every level of the distribution chain someone needs to make a profit. If Yan is the importer, distributor and LBS rolled into one you can realize substantial cost savings. Nobody is claiming they are the absolutely best made folder around. I for one won’t make that claim. I will say that they are an incredible value for the money.

For not too much more than the price of the S1 (single speed) Dahon Boardwalk I bought a DT FS with full suspension, adjustable handlebars, bar ends, 8 speed derailleur, better tires and seat, bike bag and more. Only issue I had was thanks to UPS. They crushed my box a bit and my rear derailleur hanger was bent. I beat it flat until Yan had a new one to me in about 4 days.

Its your money so spend how you want. If you want to pay $500-600 for a Dahon when you could buy a DT that is very similar to it for about $300 then that is your choice. It’s not like when you buy a Dahon you are getting a Lexus or MB. All I can say is try one with an open mind and you might be surprised. I took a chance and saved a bunch of money and got a good product. If you don't like a DT, don't buy one.

Jets- Almost forgot, the stock DT saddle isn't bad. You might want to try it for a while. A Brooks requires a lot of care and you don’t want them to get wet once they are broken-in. Just keep that in mind and carry a shower cap or bag to put over them if raining. Once you get them set up they are great.

A tune-up should only run about $50, and I would tune up any bike 4-6 weeks after I got it -- so it's not an "upgrade," it's just basic maintenance. If you buy a bike through a store, they'll usually throw in a few tune-ups or a year of service.

I called the LBS and they said it would be 59 for a full tune-up. Would it matter if I rode the bike before this? That's probably stupid to ask, but I want to be cautious with my investment, and I don't know much about bikes. I'm learning (thanks to you folks). I could probably save some money by waiting until the semester starts (3-4 weeks) and have my friend do it when we get back to school. Should I wait? Thanks. :)

There isn't much to tune up on these. Yan will walk you through any issues you might have. It isn't rocket science and almost anyone can do it. Even my retired mother can do it. You want to ride it for a while anyay to see what need adjustment. It may need a few tweaks out of the box but all my stuff was right on.

There isn't much to tune up on these. Yan will walk you through any issues you might have. It isn't rocket science and almost anyone can do it. Even my retired mother can do it. You want to ride it for a while anyay to see what need adjustment. It may need a few tweaks out of the box but all my stuff was right on.

Great, thanks! You've been so helpful, and I really appreciate your eagerness to assist and turn me on to Downtube. If I have any more questions, I'll be sure to come here and ask. :)

Cheers.

No problem. I don't want everyone to think DT is the only bike to buy but at a low price point it is hard to beat. FYI- check out the latest post in the DT thread by a guy who just bought one and what his experience was.

Good luck on whatever you buy and welcome the the folder forum! Hope you'll come back and post your experiences after you buy one.

As for the price on the DT, keep in mind that the price is somewhat deceptive. Basically you are getting the bike at an almost direct from factory price. To that end you are buying it what would be well below dealer cost of a comparable bike.

True.... but you don't get a no-commitment test ride on the bike, or the typical "1 year of maintenance" that you'd get if you buy a bike at an LBS. Not a problem for those who can tune up their own bikes, kind of an issue for new riders.


What you do get with the Downtube bike is a 30 day satisfaction guarantee with a one year warranty... that's somewhat persuasive and allows something more than a test ride around the block a few times..

Bruce

DT is heading the way of Dahon and the original Palm Pilot. Both filled a niche, did it well, and were cheap to boot. As demand increased, so did their complexity as they incorporated more customer demands and requests. I'm betting that pretty soon DT won't be so affordable; just look at the model madness they're having now. Maybe they're trying to be the new Dahon? In any case, hopefully their quality doesn't begin to suffer.

Just an FYI jets, but only because someone has to say it (again) :D : DT is still a pretty new brand. If Wav wants to talk placebo effect, then DT is a good candidate. Remember as you're reading the reviews, many have not owned these bikes for more than a couple years, and by far the most enthusiastic posters are the ones who have just received their bikes within one week and are already talking about future projections of what they will do with their bikes before anything has ever happened.

Some issues you may want to consider, research, and explore:

- long-term viability of their aluminum design: any weaknesses?
- long-term viability of their main hinge: any issues with it getting loose? Is it user adjustable?
- long-term viability of their suspension system: any weaknesses, breakages, known problems with the suspension systems they use?
- any seat post issues or problems with the quick-releases?

In other words, DT is still a young product, so I wouldn't get too stuck on them too fast. And while reviewers like Wav are more reliable because they've owned DT's for a while and seem not afraid to give pros and cons, you also have to realize that DT's are not their main rides (though there are exceptions), so even then you are only getting glimpses of their rideability and reliability.

Thus if your primary purpose is to commute, find a DT commuter who rides a DT every day: s/he most certainly will have the best insight about the pros and cons of this bike, though whether they'll tell you is a different issue entirely. No current folding bike DOES NOT have its own quirks and issues. If you find one, let us all know.

Spambait11- for a bicycle that costs $200 or so I am not going to get too worked up about it. My Dahon Boardwalk has suffered more issues in the brief time I've owned it than my DT has and the DT has seen much more use. Even after having several different kids riding it and racing it, it is still in great shape.

If my choice is between a Dahon S1 and a DT, the choice is a no brainer.

As for some of your questions:

-I've never heard of frame breakage on a DT yet. It would be really hard on the FS model as it seems to be built like a tank. My son has used it like a BMX bike and it has held up really well. It was ridden pretty much year round even in snow and ice.
-The hinge IS user adjustable if you want to tighten it up.
-As for the suspension, get a grip. a $2000 Brompton doesn't have user adjustable suspension and very few folding bikes do. They aren't high end mountain bikes. Having said that my FS model does have adjustable rear pre-load which was more than my Dahon had. My top of the line Dahon had absolutely NO adjustment on the front or rear suspension.
-QR - no issues with mine and it gets used a lot, I have several kids and they all want to ride it so it gets adjusted constantly.

I have several folders and honestly very few things would even remotely give away its price and those areas seem to have been addressed in the current models.

If you set a Dahon Boardwalk next to a DT, you would immediately see the difference in value immediately. You have to spend a lot more on a Dahon to get a substantially better bike.

Just for the record longevity in the market doesn't guarantee a great product. Brompton brakes still are terrible even after all these years. Even if you buy the upgraded brakes they are far worse than what comes standard on a DT or even a Dahon S1.

I am not trying to discourage discourse on this topic but if there were a "smoking gun" pointing to a really shoddy product there would have at least been some evidence of widespread issues. I hear more people complaining about the SA 5 speed hub on the Dahon forums than probably in all the DT complaints combined.

How many companies have a 30 day satisfaction guarantee on their bikes?

Bike Friday offers 30 days. When Strida was still around, I think they also offered 30 days. Hostel Shoppe offers 30 days on their Volae recumbents. I don't remember about my Birdy though I did buy it at REI. DT is just doing the same thing. I don't consider this unique or a big deal.

Brompton has a proven track record in other areas besides the brakes; change of brake pads worked for me - yours was a different issue. Granted it could just be popular like Toyota Camry's are popular, but over 20 years in the business and with "little innovating going on" - as you like to point out - by default shows that it is a winner though *you* might not think it's a great product.

In terms of DT's suspension, I was not necessarily looking for user adjustability so much as quality. For example, if this particular model's spring gave out after 1.5 years, let's say, then yeah - I'd want to know about that. But current DT's are only approaching the 1.5 year mark, give or take, aren't they?

In terms of your kids on the DT, as Fear&Trembling would say "It is a datum point," BUT it is not you or your weight that is constantly on the bike so I don't see how you can really be so sure about the durability since: (1) you're not riding it every day commuting, for example, so it is just not receiving the kind of wear and tear a commuter would go through; and (2) the bike is just approaching its second year, which is still fairly young for a bike. As far as frame breakage goes, I hope it never happens, but all I'm saying is time will tell. Even after 10 years, Birdy - as refined a design as it is - is showing it can have problems.

In terms of DT's comparison to the S1, you may be right. But the DT is not trying to be an S1, nor the S1 a DT.

In sum, I have nothing against DT, but have full confidence that its limitations and/or quirks will become clearer the longer it is used and the more widespread its use. The proof is that Yan is continually tweaking and updating his models because he knows there are shortcomings. The question is: "will DT become like Dahon or not?" That's what I'm waiting to see played out.

Bike Friday offers 30 days. When Strida was still around, I think they also offered 30 days. Hostel Shoppe offers 30 days on their Volae recumbents. I don't remember about my Birdy though I did buy it at REI. DT is just doing the same thing. I don't consider this unique or a big deal.

Brompton has a proven track record in other areas besides the brakes; change of brake pads worked for me - yours was a different issue. Granted it could just be popular like Toyota Camry's are popular, but over 20 years in the business and with "little innovating going on" - as you like to point out - by default shows that it is a winner though *you* might not think it's a great product.

In terms of DT's suspension, I was not necessarily looking for user adjustability so much as quality. For example, if this particular model's spring gave out after 1.5 years, let's say, then yeah - I'd want to know about that. But current DT's are only approaching the 1.5 year mark, give or take, aren't they?

In terms of your kids on the DT, as Fear&Trembling would say "It is a datum point," BUT it is not you or your weight that is constantly on the bike so I don't see how you can really be so sure about the durability since: (1) you're not riding it every day commuting, for example, so it is just not receiving the kind of wear and tear a commuter would go through; and (2) the bike is just approaching its second year, which is still fairly young for a bike. As far as frame breakage goes, I hope it never happens, but all I'm saying is time will tell. Even after 10 years, Birdy - as refined a design as it is - is showing it can have problems.

In terms of DT's comparison to the S1, you may be right. But the DT is not trying to be an S1, nor the S1 a DT.

In sum, I have nothing against DT, but have full confidence that its limitations and/or quirks will become clearer the longer it is used and the more widespread its use. The proof is that Yan is continually tweaking and updating his models because he knows there are shortcomings. The question is: "will DT become like Dahon or not?" That's what I'm waiting to see played out.

SB11- Very few companies offer the 30 day trial, PERIOD. I don’t know of any other low priced bike companies currently that do it. The concept isn’t unique but the price point at which it is done. Some shops on a local level may offer there own deal but very few companies do it as a matter of practice.

As for the DT suspension, I imagine my kids ride harder than a lot of others on the list. For the record I have 2 of them and I spend a fair amount of time on one of them. One of my kids will launch the thing off anything he thinks he can jump. He isn’t exactly small but is probably smaller than most adults though. However if you factor in the loading due to acceleration he is exerting a lot more force than many adults would in normal riding.

Time shows all. I think we are all smart enough to understand. Sometimes the true beauty of something is finally understood after the item is long gone.

As for Yan’s tweaking, I don’t think that in all ways it is because of shortcoming per se. For example the model year of mine had incredibly over built wheels. He found that he could save weight on the bike by going with fewer spokes as the majority of people never needed that many spokes. I would say like all smart companies he is refining his product. I personally hope DT never becomes like Dahon. I think in some ways Dahon has lost touch with what people want. I get tired of their model “churn”. I hope that Yan limits the models to ultimately no more than 10 and keeps focused on making the best in their class. Too many products means you have to compromise on most of them as you can’t keep focused on them all.

I think in large part Yan introduced the internal hub models because of input from people on the forum. That is only speculation on my part but it seems likely. My favorite folder has an internal hub so if I could do anything with respect to my DTs it would be to have an internal hub on mine. I have no vested interest in DT. I've just been very pleased with their products so far.

My strida is single speed 16" wheel. It rides well up hill, it is fairly slow on level and down hill. If you carry heavy loads uphill it might be a problem.

...If you set a Dahon Boardwalk next to a DT, you would immediately see the difference in value immediately. You have to spend a lot more on a Dahon to get a substantially better bike.

Just for the record longevity in the market doesn't guarantee a great product. Brompton brakes still are terrible even after all these years. Even if you buy the upgraded brakes they are far worse than what comes standard on a DT or even a Dahon S1.

I think in large part Yan introduced the internal hub models because of input from people on the forum. That is only speculation on my part but it seems likely. My favorite folder has an internal hub so if I could do anything with respect to my DTs it would be to have an internal hub on mine. I have no vested interest in DT. I've just been very pleased with their products so far.... -Wavshrdr

DTs are perfect for someone who is looking for value and a "throwaway" product when one has to replace or upgrade old or faulty components. You can't do the same things like "cold setting" a frame to fit new parts like steel can do. I done both on my Boardwalk S1 and my Brompton (adding an internal hub of my choice, new brakes of my choice etc.- things that Brompton or Dahon did not support for their respective bikes). I rather stay steel orientated, buy steel frames only, and add components and accessories as needed than wait for another "new and improve" model to distract me from my current bikes and the solid foundation they offer. Who knows what tomarrow will be like? I may not have the money to buy the "better" one.

I also noticed that the high perfomance bikes (Bike Friday, upper end Dahon, Bromptons etc.) all seem to offer steel over aluminun frames most of the time. My favorite and reliable bikes from the 60's and 70's are steel frames with better components added over the years as needed.

To each his/her own, I say.

I just purchased the 2006 DT VIIINS on E-bay (for more than I had planned!); I'm pleased with the decision. I won't be upgrading anytime soon because of it, but everything happens all in good time, right? So I'll update when I get the bike. Thank you, everyone for your help and kindness!

Sincerely. :)

FF - that is a lot of my previous posts point, buy what you like. On the plus side DT had a lot of bikes where you could add a internal hub if you didn't want a derailleur. Bruce Metras did this. They use more standardized parts than Dahon does.

From my experience with my S1, it is a throwaway bike. Most any folder in this price range won't last forever nor do I expect it to. The internal hub version of the DT is using a Sturmey Archer hub, this is definitely not a throwaway part.

Thankfully on any of my bikes, alu or steel, I haven't had to do anything. I can easily upgrade parts on almost all of them. The DTs I have I could go with an internal hub or upgrade brakes. It is much easier to upgrade than a Brompton for example where almost everything is unique.

I get your point but some of it doesn't apply. If parts wear out on ANY bike, the'll need to be replaced. For your Brompton you have to use a special width internal hub that greatly limits your choices or you have to modify it to work. Ditto if you want a SON hub dyno, you have to buy the special Brommie version. Same goes for Schlumpf. Until these companies made one off parts just for Brompton you were stuck!

DT has standard width hubs so you have a wide range of parts that will fit with no modifications. I can easily upgrade (like Bruce Metras) if I ever get the urge. I can easily add accessories as needed as well. Their is no real impediment to doing it on the DTs I have. Point is I am not going to waste much money going this route. I'll buy pretty much what I need up front as it is more cost effective than swapping out parts that I'll throw away or not use later. Then it becomes expensive.

The DT was never marketed as the best bike in the segment. You just get a solid value. I'll gladly sell my last Dahon and buy another DT. Problem is I can't get hardly anything for a geared Boardwalk. If I could get $150 for it on eBay I'd sell it in a minute. I immediately go buy a internal hub DT.

I'm looking for a cheap, folding bike to have when I go back to college; I'm pretty set on Dahon. The town I live in is somewhat hilly in parts, but I'm not sure if it's enough to require a multi-speed shifting bicycle. Most bikes I see on and around campus are mountain bikes. I had been looking at the Dahon Boardwalk 1, thinking about upgrading it a little (Big Apple tires, new seat, lights) -- after getting some more money -- but is that worth it? Do I need a multi-speed bike for where I am going? (I do think that after getting a bike, I'll want to ride around more, not just to class and work.) I know that I could take the hills but that it would require a little more effort with a single speed. Is the Boardwalk 1 a good bike to upgrade, or should I save a little and buy a bike with a better frame and other specs? Thank you for your time and help.

To get an idea of some of the upgrade possibilities of a Boardwalk, look at the Hon Solo (http://www.dahon.com/us/honsolo.htm). One difference between the Dahon and Downtube that has not been mentioned in this thread is that the Dahon frame is steel and the Downtube is aluminum----if that matters to you.

I pulled over to a garage sale about an hour ago. There were two matching Dahon 3 speed boardwalks for $10.00 apiece! The old guy claimed the original tires were still on them and he had bought them for him and her when they spent a winter in Arizona, and they did look old but the tread itself was not worn at all. I already have a couple of folders, but is $10 a good deal?

dude, 10 dollars for a used bike is a good deal unless they are completely beyond repair.