General Cycling Discussion - What computer operating system do you use to access bikeforums.net?

I've been using MS Windows for many years.

Some months ago the government of my country accepted the law, which outlaws any computer, that does not have the readily available license for the operating system and all the software on it.

I forgot where I stored the licenses. To put the long story short, I have now the Linux RedHat 8.0 on my 1700 MHz machine.

The transition was not easy. But finally I was convinced by the incredble ease of ripping MP3s from the audio CDs, and by writing my CD-RWs. All this by the simple commands from the Linux shell. It is so smple.

The quality of the MP3s produced with the 'Lame' program is the best. The sound is crisp and even.

I also can by now to connect to my Olympus digital camera from my Linux box. I learned to update my photos with the GYMP program, which is robust enough.

Practically, there are progrmmes for all imaginable purposes in a Linux distribution, including servers. The difference from Windows is that they written by engineers for engineers, and sometimes have only the command line interface.

Another difference is that I can use Linux anywhere without worries that a lawyer with the black briefcase will knock and ask if I use it for "private" or "business".

It is possible during a transition period to use Linux and MS Windows together on 1 computer.

Some months ago the government of my country accepted the law, which outlaws any computer, that does not have the readily available license for the operating system and all the software on it.


what country are you in?

yes what country are you in, I sure, would not like to live in that country

Originally posted by orguasch
yes what country are you in, I sure, would not like to live in that country

What do you mean? It is in almost any country that you can use only licensed software.

Do you mean you can have an office in Canada and install pirated versions of MS Windows and get away with it?

Of course, one can have a pirated version at home and play with it.

But if you need it for work - like in the office or for the Internet server, or for graphic editing, you need to buy the legal software. Besides, for home usage it costs peanuts, but for business purposes it is on the expensive side.

There are very few desktop users of Linux for now. But it will grow. As I see now there are some serious in-built limitations in Microsoft software, caused by the patent and marketing issues.

I access using Linux Madrake and Red Hat (which are effectivly the same....), Solaris 5.7 or 5.8 and Windows XP or 2000. Depends on where I am.

Why isn't Mac OS one of the choices?
I use XP at home, but Mac OS at school.

I guess it would go under "other."

Originally posted by Max
Of course, one can have a pirated version at home and play with it.

Not legaly...

What irks me is how many people complain about how much Windows costs, you can pick up an OEM copy of XPH FPP for $85, There are GAMES that cost much more then that, for what you get, windows is one of the least expensive software packages out there.

BTW, I run Windows XP Pro at work, XP Home on one home computer, and a dual boot Red Hat 6.2 / Win 98se on the other.

Originally posted by Joe Gardner
Not legaly...

What irks me is how many people complain about how much Windows costs, you can pick up an OEM copy of XPH FPP for $85, There are GAMES that cost much more then that, for what you get, windows is one of the least expensive software packages out there.


Yep. But this should be a crippled home edition for 85 $.

Besides what if one needs a development environment, a server, a SQL database, etc.

All this serious stuff comes at the premium price from the Microsoft, what places any serious computing out of reach of anyone except the large companies.

From your poll, i thought you were talking about OS's only. The only difference between a discounted OEM copy and a full retail, is product support; OEM is not come with any type of assisted warranty support.

As for a development environment, you would qualify for MSDN licensing: http://msdn.microsoft.com/subscriptions/prodinfo/subscribe.asp & http://msdn.microsoft.com/subscriptions/prodinfo/pricing.asp , I cant think of a single other software maker that offers anything close to MSDN prices.

Max, I must have misread your original post. I got the impression that your country's government had outlawed MS Windows.

I don't see it as a problem. Darn near every computer shipped is shipped with some version of Windows, and it's properly licensed through the OEM agreement. Only real exception would be if you bought the components and built it yourself.

I'm an old Unix hand and would prefer Linux (and have used Redhat in the past) for playing around. I'm certainly not a Gates or MS fan. However, my job is developing CBT and related software for Windows. I used to dual boot at home but it became more hassle than it was really worth. If I checked e-mail on linux and had job related stuff I had to ship it over to the Windows side so I could file it away properly in our contact management folders and so on. Found myself spending too much time catering to Linux merely for the sake of saying I wasn't using Windows, frankly.

John

ms win xp (yes I purchased it) :)

and sometimes Linux Redhat 7.1....

I am very disapointed with no option for Unix. I use various platforms depending on what part of the network I am on. Here is a sample

win 2000
winxp
win98
win95 (my god I can't believe it sometimes)
Aix
Sco
Qnix (Old scholl text format just in case I feel like some bad flashacks)
FreeBSD (the gods version of *nix)

:)

Seems as if we forgot a platform in the poll. I am running Mac OS 10.2.3 - better known as Jaguar.

Originally posted by dlavi
Seems as if we forgot a platform in the poll. I am running Mac OS 10.2.3 - better known as Jaguar.

See more unix missing :D

Debian Linux (http://www.debian.org) and Slackware Linux (http://www.slackware.com).

Yay for free software... and free bikes. Haven't seen much of the latter though.

--Nicholas

At work I use Mac OS X (10.2.3) and Mac OS 9.2.2, depending on the machine I'm servicing. At home I use Windoze ME.

Been using OS/390 but upgrading to Zos 1.3

:lol:

Marty

OSX is the sexiest OS out there. Im dying to get rid of my old P3 and pic up a new Mac G4. Im also a graphic designer and Macs are better suited to my needs anyways.

Originally posted by Max
I forgot where I stored the licenses.
If that's the reason you dumped Windows, you are to be commended for being such a law abiding citizen, unless you live in Singapore, or where ever it is that you get "caned" for chewing gum and not bringing enough for everybody. We used to get "caned" here in BF from time to time, but it involved a tongue lashing involving Fondriest frames. But I digress.

PS. Do you also read the EULAs before "agreeing" and running the software?
;)

PPS. Windows 2K, NT 4.0, & XP Home (I like it better when you turn off all the "special effects").

Originally posted by lotek
Been using OS/390
Don't recognize it, but it sounds dangerously like the mainframe computer I learned assembly language on in college.... 360/370 (was it "test"? You could load an instruction into a register and execute it. Gimme some rope...). :D

Mac OS 9.2 but just purchased OS X.

Originally posted by Joe Gardner
From your poll, i thought you were talking about OS's only.

Actually, when I buy a Linux OS on 3 CDs, it comes not only as an OS, but there is the office inside, server, SQL database, graphic editing software, CD-RW recording, CD->WAV->MP3 capabilities, etc.

It is not the case with MS, which splits such software in different products for marketing purposes. Like: OS, Office, Server,Visual Studio, etc.

Microsoft will dominate the market for centuries to come, because it made computing understandable to masses.

However, if I try to buy all the software I need, it will drain my budget very quickly. For me something like 2000.- USD, for one software product, is the very significant money already.

I could easily crack most MS products, but while downloading those cracks, I downloaded couple of times the Trojans, which havocked my computer and scared me a lot. Besides, the cracked soft is only for home (illegal) use.


Originally posted by roadbuzz
If that's the reason you dumped Windows, you are to be commended for being such a law abiding citizen, unless you live in Singapore,

I have not heard that they check apartments yet, but some Internet cafes got busted here, computers were confiscated, etc.

What they (Tax Inspection) do – they enter the office premises, ask employees to leave for some time and check one PC after another.

Certainly, I could continue to use the unlicensed Windows at home and no one would know it. But it seems that it is the dead end for me. If later I open my own small business I will have to spend on the software more than on anything else. With Linux, however, I can use it wherever without such headaches.

I still think that Microsoft produces great software. It is just too expensive for me. Maybe it is a great choice for a successful company with a lot of funds.

The problem for me is that it comes somewhat compartmentalized and each such a portion is to be purchased separately.

Besides, I have discovered that there are really neat products inside Linux; like: Apache server, PHP scripting language, MySQL database, 'NotLame' MP3, Gphoto2, Cdrecord, GYMP, etc.

Though Linux RedHat is also influenced by this “patent” issue already. One company in Germany patented the whole MP3 format in Germany and USA. So RedHat 8.0 comes without MP3 support. I had to download 2 installation RPM files (NotLame & XMMS) separately to enable it again. This was not a big deal though and it was not illegal.

I picked other since I run a variety of operating systems. I typically access BikeForums from personal machines running one or more of the following OSes:

Solaris/SPARC-{7,8,9**,
FreeBSD/Intel-{4,5**.x,
OpenBSD/SPARC-3.x,
NetBSD/Pmax-1.6,
AIX-4.1.4,
NeXTSTEP/68k-3.3,
Windows {2000,XP**,
Redhat Linux/SPARC-6.2,
Embedix Linux/ARM-2.4.6 (my PDA... Bikeforums is quite readable on a 3.5" 240x320 display)

Hopefully, I'll be able to add HPUX, IRIX, Ultrix, OSF1/Digital Unix and OpenVMS to the list... assuming my wife doesn't kill for wanting to add more machines to my cluster. |8^)

Originally posted by Max

It is possible during a transition period to use Linux and MS Windows together on 1 computer.

I find it useful to run both concurrently even after a transition period since there are some things I need Windows for... such as Visio. Rather than dual-booting my x86 boxes, I run the Linux version of VMWare under FreeBSD using the Linux-ABI compatibility mode. And then run Windows 2000 (haven't tried XP yet) inside VMWare. So in actuality I'm running three OSes simultaneously since running things in the Linux-ABI is actually running a Linux kernel loaded as a module under the FreeBSD kernel. It all works pretty well. There's a little bit of a performance hit but not much since everything is still native x86 instructions.

A long time ago, I used to run MAE (MacOS emulation), DOSemu (DOS emulation) and Wabi (Windows emulation) under Solaris. They were painfully slow. I even played around a bit with running Windows in Bochs (x86 hardware emulation) under Solaris which was also rather slow.

Originally posted by cycletourist
Max, I must have misread your original post. I got the impression that your country's government had outlawed MS Windows.

Well.... not the country as a whole but the German Army rejected MS-Windows (http://www.internetnews.com/bus-news/article.php/716871). Actually this report was later denied by the German defense ministry.

On a more amusing note... (http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/article09-203) (hey... it could happen |8^). The military is a very large user of Solaris/SPARC actually. Additionally, there are whole segments of the computing industry which specialise in making new SPARC based machines with obsolete (as considered by the general computing public) VME backplanes simply because VME is MILSPEC.

Other stories of governments banning (or having been alledged to banning) Microsoft include:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/134480887_btperu24.html
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/tech/DailyNews/microsoft_china000106.html
http://www.15seconds.com/News/News.asp?News_Id=388

While many of these stories have turned out to be false, I think it's clear that Microsoft's licensing practices have left a sour taste in some people's mouths.

I wonder if this thread should be transferred over to slashdot.org?:)

I run the following:

Windows XP Pro (special effects off) on my Athlon XP 2400 Machine.

Slackware and Windows 2000 on my Duron 850.

Mandrake and Windows 2000 on my P3 600.

man if u must use windows.....2k pro is king... I can leave it on for weeks and it does the same think after that week as it did before.

for stability it can't compare to linux or mac os however.....

I have used red hat and other than trying to learn how to do everything again it seemed ok. it will do everything i want to do with a pc.

a word of warning if u use 2k pro DO NOT download service pack 3!!!!!! my partner and I both have done it and had the puter screwed up because of it. Once its installed there is no way I can find short of a reformat to get rid of it either.

Originally posted by Max

Do you mean you can have an office in Canada and install pirated versions of MS Windows and get away with it?

Of course, one can have a pirated version at home and play with it.

.
of course not, we Canadian obey the law, to the letter, :D :) :) :D :D

Originally posted by roadbuzz
Don't recognize it, but it sounds dangerously like the mainframe computer I learned assembly language on in college.... 360/370 (was it "test"? You could load an instruction into a register and execute it. Gimme some rope...). :D
Uhm I think that would be LTR, load and test register.
OS390 is a direct outgrowth of the original IBM 360 series
computers.
Funny how the laptop I use has more memory than a 360 had
and the 360 took up large rooms.

FWIW I grew up in Poughkeepsie, Father was engineer
with IBM.

Marty

Hey Nemo, I've been running Win2K pro w/ SP3 without problem. Must be something specific to your computer(s). I've been thinking about upgrading to XP but I haven't decided yet- I may wait until after I upgrade my motherboard and processor so I won't have to deal with any WPA nightmares.

Never mind WPA dude. When I changed my CPU and MOBO on Win XP Pro I got BSODs. So I reinstalled Windows (no format) and none of my hardware worked. It was a nightmare. After, I just formatted and all the problems were gone.

OS X. This is the best OS I've used. I've previously used all Windows and OS 8,9. OS X is a far superior system. It might be much more usefull to a musician as is the case with myself than someone who is a banker. I've noticed differences in all applications for example. Take a look at Windows Media Player (which comes with Windows) and iTunes (which comes with Mac). Oh my god, hands down the iTunes is a hell of alot better. PC's (truly suck). Mine was always giving me problems and hastles, since the Mac (Quicksilver - G4, 60gig, Superdrive, 640meg. ) It's hands down.

Am I ranting? I hate PC's.!!

Originally posted by orguasch
of course not, we Canadian obey the law, to the letter, :D :) :) :D :D

One may play with an improperly licensed soft at home. It will be illegal, but one can get
away with it.

But if one plans to start a business, than the issue of licenses comes in true colors. No way to hide from The Man, if it is the business.

I do not know how it is in your parts, but if a law enforcement officer wants to find something to get you, he will find it, if it is inside the computer. He/she will do it not for The Man only, but for himself too. I mean there could be an "unofficial" fine, etc.


Originally posted by khuon
Well.... not the country as a whole but the

German Army rejected MS-Windows (http://www.internetnews.com/bus-news/article.php/716871). Actually this report was later denied by
the German defense ministry.


I read recently that German Government decided to finance partly Linux KDE desktop development. This may be really interesting.


Originally posted by TotalKos
OS X. This is the best OS I've used.

I hate PC's.!!

I do not hate PCs. It is just I will not be able to buy all the Microsoft software for all the computing tasks I need. I can do the same tasks from Linux, which is not free either. But the the cost of Linux ownership is acceptable to me.

Originally posted by nemo
a word of warning if u use 2k pro DO NOT download service pack 3!!!!!! my partner and I both have done it and had the puter screwed up because of it. Once its installed there is no way I can find short of a reformat to get rid of it either.

Funny thing. I have installed that sp on over 300 computers including a couple of personal pc's and 7 servers. I haven't had an issue with it yet.

I am guessing you didn't click the option when you installed the sp to backup your old settings? Sp3 is a huge sp and can't simply be removed without that backup in place. :) Well I am sure there are ways but it will do more harm than good I suspect :)

Originally posted by orguasch
of course not, we Canadian obey the law, to the letter, :D :) :) :D :D

Which explains why we have the best weed on the planet ;):D

Originally posted by Maelstrom


I am guessing you didn't click the option when you installed the sp to backup your old settings? Sp3 is a huge sp and can't simply be removed without that backup in place. :) Well I am sure there are ways but it will do more harm than good I suspect :) [/B]

this is embarrasing I work on puters everyday and i cannot make this on sp work.....


no seriously the first thing that happens is it will not shut down or reboot. next I get weird menu errors just little things like pics will not generate the preview.... sometimes i opeon a window and it is empty.... shut it and reopen and it works........ nothing fatal just irratating.

Glad to see other Mac users out there.

I am using Mac OS X ver 10.2.3 (Jaguar)

Put the win2k cd in the computer. There should be a repair option. Try this before reformating the drive. The repair should fix it, then install whatever sp's you like. In reality I don't mind doing a full install periodically. So if this didn't work I would do a clean install and install the sp before any other software.

Cheers :)

Mac OS 9.2, they haven't upgraded me to OS X yet.

One laptop, (work), has Win 98. My laptop and one home PC has Win 2K Pro. Other PC has XP. All networked together and work perfectly. Hard to believe, ain't it? :)

I use SuSE Linux at home (with KDE desktop) and M$ Win 2K Pro at the office. Currently my internet connection @ home is down, so it's just windoze for me for the time being.

--J

Originally posted by Maelstrom
Put the win2k cd in the computer. There should be a repair option. Try this before reformating the drive. The repair should fix it, then install whatever sp's you like. In reality I don't mind doing a full install periodically. So if this didn't work I would do a clean install and install the sp before any other software.

Cheers :)

yes well I have finally gotten it to shutdown correctly...well slowly anyway

Originally posted by nemo
yes well I have finally gotten it to shutdown correctly...well slowly anyway

Damn Windows ;)

Originally posted by Max
What they (Tax Inspection) do – they enter the office premises, ask employees to leave for some time and check one PC after another.
Ask the employees to leave? What's the point of that, they can't check a license with the employee watching? Sounds fishy to me. Where I work, if some "inspector" came in and told everybody to leave and leave their computers accessible we'd be calling the cops, then the lawyers...

John

Good ol, invasion of private property. If they searched their computers and then tried to take you to court you could easily pull the computer privacy act (forgot what its called) on them. They would never do that. They'd also need a valid search warrant. No warrant, then the evidence they find can't be used in court (Canada atleast). If you've lost the actual computer as evidence, then they'd have a hard time proving it.

Originally posted by HalfHearted
Ask the employees to leave? What's the point of that, they can't check a license with the employee watching? Sounds fishy to me. Where I work, if some "inspector" came in and told everybody to leave and leave their computers accessible we'd be calling the cops, then the lawyers...

John

They are the cops. It is the Tax Inspection or the Tax Police.

That is what I heard. It was inside the office, not in a private home. So I guess the owner of the computers is the company, not the employees.

Maybe it is just how people transmit the stories. I never witnessed it myself.

But there are now very cheap used monitors and other computer parts on the market here. I was told that these parts are from the busted Internet Cafes, which used unlicensed software.

Obviously, the computer equipment was confiscated and put on sale via computer shops.

I have just installed the ASPLinux. It is the product of Russian company www.asplinux.ru

It is based on the RedHat, but had the improved fonts and improved Cyrillic support. I have very good impression so far.

If the supervisor or owner says go then there is no privacy issue at work. There is no such thing in a corp environment. A warrant is only required if someone important (owner etc...) raises the issue. Not an employee that happens to borrow a computer while he/she has a job :) Many corporations have a disclaimer that you have to sign when you are first hired explaining this fact.

If privacy issues were a reality then admins couldn't do a lot of their job.

Funny thing is Microsoft is actually pretty forgiving to corps. My company got caught pirating (damn windows 98 and no real admin power) but microsoft let us off with a lease agreement to purchase all of the software during a 2 year period. No shut down or anything. We even furthered the agreements for full system upgrades.

Of course I don't know the laws in the states. But company computers are the companies. I would be surprised if this wasn't the same south :)

Originally posted by Maelstrom
Of course I don't know the laws in the states. But company computers are the companies. I would be surprised if this wasn't the same south :)
But that's what I'm talking about. The company here would raise a ruckus, not on behalf of their employees' privacy, but on behalf of their own trade secrets and the like.

If police of any variety showed up at the door wanting to inspect our computers, they'd better have a signed warrant and even then they aren't going to be left alone with our equipment!

John