I think this is probably the best tour that I've ever watched. Even before it started there was high drama and disappointment. The early flat stages had exciting group sprints with Robbie McEwen battling with World Champion Tom Boonen. The mountain stages have been crazy. Pereiro going out on an inexplicable 30 minute break. An Epic ride by Rasmussen to get into the polka dots. CSC and T-Mobile showing true professional team cycling by charging on despite losing their leader before it all started. Landis completley falling apart. Landis putting in a ride for the ages. Pereiro steadfastly refusing to give up the yellow. And its not done yet. High drama...

And for the record, I'm not really a big Landis fan. But the guy's got huge stones.

What do you think? If not which one did you prefer.

1969 - Merckx takes all three jerseys.

1989 - nothing much to say. Best TDF ever.

1969 - Merckx takes all three jerseys.

1989 - nothing much to say. Best TDF ever.

Good call on '89. But I wasn't really into cycling then. Only watched. But I do remember it.

Can't say much about '69. I was 2 years old. That might be the greatest individual performance.

eddy would have won white too; if they had that back then

eddy would have won white too; if they had that back then

Makes me wonder if they had the most aggressive rider award then. He'd won that one too.

1969 - Merckx takes all three jerseys.

1989 - nothing much to say. Best TDF ever.
I concur on both counts!

I don't remember the '69 TdF but I DO remember '89 and I don't think I will ever see another Tour like that. That being said, this year's version is the stuff legends are made of.

Cheers,

Brian

1969 - Merckx takes all three jerseys.

1989 - nothing much to say. Best TDF ever.

No contest, these were the best, too bad there was no coverage in 69 and only replay coverage in 89.

Well this is my first year watching so for me it is the best TdF I've ever seen.

eddy would have won white too; if they had that back then

Actually he did win the white! At that time the white was the combo jersey.

Makes me wonder if they had the most aggressive rider award then. He'd won that one too.

They did, he did.

He also won the final stage.

Oh Faema also won the team championship.

Poor Eddy, the awards the final day must have really drained him.

1969 - Merckx takes all three jerseys.

1989 - nothing much to say. Best TDF ever.

68 wasn't half bad either. If I recall correctly there were at least 4 riders at the top within a minute of eachother going into the final stage, an individual time trial. Final difference 38 seconds, the closest ever (until 89). On and with a Belgian losing the Yellow on the final stage it was just one more case of a run of bad luck. A run that Eddy broke big time in 69.

86 wasn't a half bad tour either. With the title of this thread being Best TDF ever it is worth pointing out just what La Vie Claire did that year since many recent teams get called 'best team ever'.

G.C. 1st 2nd and 4th
KOM
Most aggressive
Team Championship

That would also make that year the best results for America ever.

Of course I enjoyed the Lance years. I also enjoyed seeing Jan Ulrich take over for Riis. Loved it when Riis threw his bike. I was also pumped when the Pirate won it.

They did, he did.

He also won the final stage.

Oh Faema also won the team championship.

Poor Eddy, the awards the final day must have really drained him.

Yeah...after all of those miles, climbing the steps to the podium all those times had to put him over the edge of endurance:D :D :D .

Cheers,

Brian

Yeah...after all of those miles, climbing the steps to the podium all those times had to put him over the edge of endurance:D :D :D .

Cheers,

Brian

He had to be paced to the top of the podium.

The problem with the poll is none of the options capture the right answer. I'd say better than any of the last 7. But you link this option with best ever. The Lance years are not the best TDFs. 1999 was neat because of the comeback, and 2003 was a suspensful race, probably the best of the 7. But 1969, and 1989 clearly surpass the last 7. Heck I'd argue that 1985 did also, with the battle between Lemond and Hinault. And there are a number of other good ones before my time, such as the battles between Anquetil and Poulidor, and Gaul's big comeback set out in another thread, then back to Coppi.
,and his fellow italian rival. The TDF has a very long storied history, and I'm afraid the frame of reference for most americans is very narrow.

The problem with the poll is none of the options capture the right answer. I'd say better than any of the last 7. But you link this option with best ever. The Lance years are not the best TDFs. 1999 was neat because of the comeback, and 2003 was a suspensful race, probably the best of the 7. But 1969, and 1989 clearly surpass the last 7. Heck I'd argue that 1985 did also, with the battle between Lemond and Hinault. And there are a number of other good ones before my time, such as the battles between Anquetil and Poulidor, and Gaul's big comeback set out in another thread, then back to Coppi.
,and his fellow italian rival. The TDF has a very long storied history, and I'm afraid the frame of reference for most americans is very narrow.

Merlin don't dispair. I think it is like that for all sports not just cycling in the US. It is hard for someone born in 1969 such as myself to reflect on the tour in 1969. Humans are visual creatures, so what they see is what they know. This is the best tour I have seen, but I have to admit ignorance to tours in the 60's. I think the 2003 & 2004 series between the Yanks and Sox along with the 86 world series was the best baseball I have seen. I am sure there were epic battles in the 1920, 30, ect, but I wasn't around then.

The good news is I continue to learn more about the history of the tour by reading post from you and guys like Laggard and Devil.

Richard

I'll tell you when it's over.

The problem with the poll is none of the options capture the right answer. I'd say better than any of the last 7. But you link this option with best ever. The Lance years are not the best TDFs. 1999 was neat because of the comeback, and 2003 was a suspensful race, probably the best of the 7. But 1969, and 1989 clearly surpass the last 7. Heck I'd argue that 1985 did also, with the battle between Lemond and Hinault. And there are a number of other good ones before my time, such as the battles between Anquetil and Poulidor, and Gaul's big comeback set out in another thread, then back to Coppi.
,and his fellow italian rival. The TDF has a very long storied history, and I'm afraid the frame of reference for most americans is very narrow.

The reference in the first answer isn't necessarily to say that the Lance years were the best. Its more of a tongue and cheek statement. I could have easily said better than the Merckx years or Indurain ones. Based one what you're saying then option 2 or 3 might fit you best. Basically, it was a flip statement that most people can identify with. Not that the Lance years were the best years. Some were rather boring once he had a grip on the yellow.

Well in response to the actual poll question ("best you've ever seen") I had to vote yes for that. I'm not sure it's the best in all the history of the TdF 'cause I think that's pretty difficult. They're all different for various reasons. I would have to guess it's one of the stranger ones, lots of surprises and unexpected stuff.

Well in response to the actual poll question ("best you've ever seen") I had to vote yes for that. I'm not sure it's the best in all the history of the TdF 'cause I think that's pretty difficult. They're all different for various reasons. I would have to guess it's one of the stranger ones, lots of surprises and unexpected stuff.

This is a very good point. Of those that site the Merckx years, I wonder how many actually followed that tour. Or are they going off of what they've read about afterwards.

I haven't had access to televised tours until the Lance Armstrong era. I used to read about some of the tours in the paper, though, during the Mercxx era. The Cannibal did a lot of attacking and solo riding for wins in his day. He was just plain faster than every one else. He was a superpower among powers. I don't know that he did anything as spectacular as Landis did on any particular day, but he did a lot of spectacular things and he did them many many times over. I remember seeing pictures of him with his hands in the air after winning a stage with nobody else around. I think any pro racing fan will concede to Mercxx the title of best pro cyclist ever.

Hinault was an aggressive rider. So were Indurain and Le Monde. I do remember seeing news clips of Indurain doing his incredible feats on the TT stages. He was really an amazing TT rider. Remember, these guys won a few Tours as well. Both Mercxx and Indurain won 5 each. Lance Armstrong did plenty of spectacular these things as well. The tour is full of examples of outstanding personal effort and achievement. Go back and read about Charlie Gaul or Fausto Coppi. These guys terrorized the field as well in their day. It's great stuff.

Let's give credit to Rasmussen and Pereiro for over-the-top personal performances in this tour. We'll all remember Landis' stage 17 but these other two were pretty spectacular as well.

Let's give credit to Rasmussen and Pereiro for over-the-top personal performances in this tour. We'll all remember Landis' stage 17 but these other two were pretty spectacular as well.

+1
You could even throw Levi in there for some greats rides. He was won left for dead early on.

I think what sets this tour apart for me is that there have been great performances by other riders as well. There's been more to watch than just a couple of favorites.

Best win of the post Mercxx era bar none - no hip, no team, recovering 8 minutes on the final Alp stage? Hollywood couldn't have come up with this ending.

83, 86, 87, 89, 91, 96 were all exciting Tours IMO.

I am not sure about best Tour ever (this tour is pretty old you know). But I do know that I am willing to bet that I may not see another tour like this. There have been so many variables that make this tour exciting, beginning with the fact that a few of the very top contenders were eliminated due to a doping scandal. Some may claim that actually hurt the tour because we did not get to see the greats. And I admit, that having Landis fight against Basso and Jan would have have perhaps added some intrigue.

But for my money, regardless if another tour comes along that is more exciting in totality, Landis's Stage 17 ride will go down in my mind as one of the Top 3 single athletic feats I have ever seen. It honestly gave me goose bumps. It was like watching a bad ESPN movie for christ sake. You could not beleive that it was happening. When he came across the second group in front, and you saw each of them turn their heads in disbeleif, it gave me chills. These are guys who are usually not phased by anything in cycling. Yet, everyone in that group was absolutely shocked at what Landis was doing.

I will also say that (and ESPN commented on this as well), that Landis is proving that France's anti-Lance attitude was never anti-American at all. It was because Lance was a boring rider, calculating and machine like, in addition to almost having an arrogant attitude about the French. Landis is a real man, and the French are embracing him for his riding technique. It is just sad that the rest of America is not really paying attention.

I think that the Tour this year has been so exciting because the Giro was so dreadfully boring, and the cycling gods wanted to even things out. Note that last year the Giro was exciting, and the Tour was considerably less so. :D

I voted for "best ever" because this one had drama. The Lance years were executions. I'm not sure if the 1999 one was televised (I didn't have cable then); I remember there being some relatively extensive news coverage of "cancer survivor Lance" as he built his lead in that race.

I know the story of the 1989 race, or more exactly what happened on the last day of the 89 version. I wasn't a cyclist or a cycling fan then, so the coverage I read then just implied that some sort of impossible deficit was made up on the last day.

my ever, yes...ever ever...no.
best one till next year.

When this tour gets looked at through the lens of history it will almost certianly fall out of the running. Oh the swin between stages 17 and 18 was huge and would be the stuff of legend, except one thing is missing.

Established great riders! An established rivalry.

Figneon vrs. Lemond vrs. Hinault.

Eddy vrs Pigneon, Poulidor and Gimondi.

Coppi vrs Bartoli.

Anquetil vrs Poulidor.

Even Lance vrs. Jan.

Perhaps the top 3 riders in this years Tour will establish themselves in hte next few years, but if this don't then this years tour will be forever missing that critical element.

When this tour gets looked at through the lens of history it will almost certianly fall out of the running. Oh the swin between stages 17 and 18 was huge and would be the stuff of legend, except one thing is missing.

Established great riders! An established rivalry.

Figneon vrs. Lemond vrs. Hinault.

Eddy vrs Pigneon, Poulidor and Gimondi.

Coppi vrs Bartoli.

Anquetil vrs Poulidor.

Even Lance vrs. Jan.

Perhaps the top 3 riders in this years Tour will establish themselves in hte next few years, but if this don't then this years tour will be forever missing that critical element.

Actually, I think that what you point out is exactly why it will be remembered. You overlook the reason why the favorites weren't there. How many tours have there been where there weren't one or two top favorites to win. This tour was unique for that very reason. Everyone was chomping at the bit once Lance was out of the picture. Then boom! No Basso, no Ullrich, no Vino! The controvery of 9 riders pulled the right before the start. The story of the doping scandal. It was really wide open. It wasn't a two horse race. And what happened in stages 17 and 18 were what make legends. The story of Landis alone is now legend. The guy is getting a hip replacement in a couple of weeks for pete's sake. What he did alone goes beyond needing a rival.

Actually, I think that what you point out is exactly why it will be remembered. You overlook the reason why the favorites weren't there. How many tours have there been where there weren't one or two top favorites to win. This tour was unique for that very reason. Everyone was chomping at the bit once Lance was out of the picture. Then boom! No Basso, no Ullrich, no Vino! The controvery of 9 riders pulled the right before the start. The story of the doping scandal. It was really wide open. It wasn't a two horse race. And what happened in stages 17 and 18 were what make legends. The story of Landis alone is now legend. The guy is getting a hip replacement in a couple of weeks for pete's sake. What he did alone goes beyond needing a rival.

There have been 2 times before this where there were no returning TDF winners. Try to name one. There have been several other cases where favorites were missing. By and large those are also forgotten Tours. For that matter can you name the circumstance where Eddy refused to wear yellow and legend has it actually had was thinking of not starting the next day?

Tours are not remembered for who was missing, but rather who was there.

There have been 2 times before this where there were no returning TDF winners. Try to name one. There have been several other cases where favorites were missing. By and large those are also forgotten Tours. For that matter can you name the circumstance where Eddy refused to wear yellow and legend has it actually had was thinking of not starting the next day?

Tours are not remembered for who was missing, but rather who was there.

There is a certain truth to that. Generally, you position holds true not only in cycling but in all major sports championships. But in the rare instance the event can make the star. Particularly considering the media exposure that's available today. I can't name that year about Eddy because I was an infant when it happened. I know that there is a long storied history to the tour, but the coverage today allows for memories to become more entrenched. I had never seen bike racing on tv until the late 80s. The first time I saw a lot of TdF stages were during the Indurain years.

Also, you ignore the fact that the reason there were no favorites this year is because of the scandal. They were ripped away right before the start. Was there a significant story as to why there were no favorites in the 2 tours you mentioned?

And are you forgetting that Floyd Landis was in this tour? I seriously doubt that he will fade away into oblivion.

Was one of those tours in the 90's?

There have been 2 times before this where there were no returning TDF winners. Try to name one.

The first one.

The first one.

:roflmao: :beer:

The first one.
Not counting the first one there are two times before this year with no previous winner of the Tour.

There is a certain truth to that. Generally, you position holds true not only in cycling but in all major sports championships. But in the rare instance the event can make the star. Particularly considering the media exposure that's available today. I can't name that year about Eddy because I was an infant when it happened. I know that there is a long storied history to the tour, but the coverage today allows for memories to become more entrenched. I had never seen bike racing on tv until the late 80s. The first time I saw a lot of TdF stages were during the Indurain years.

Also, you ignore the fact that the reason there were no favorites this year is because of the scandal. They were ripped away right before the start. Was there a significant story as to why there were no favorites in the 2 tours you mentioned?

And are you forgetting that Floyd Landis was in this tour? I seriously doubt that he will fade away into oblivion.

Was one of those tours in the 90's?

Yes one was in the 90s. You may know which one. If others can't get it then I rest my case. (Of course if they can't at least make a decent guess I'd say I could rest a case that no one remembers anything about cycling. Surprisingly none of the previous winner free years were related to WW I or II.

I know which one (I think). It is pretty easy to figure out with Lemond winning in 1990 and Indurain dominating the early part of the decade. Just think about the one year where some top riders were suspended.

And just like this year many people felt that the winner that year only won because of depleted field. We know how that turned out.

I was thinking it was the one that Pantani won. Do I win?

I was thinking it was the one that Pantani won. Do I win?

Ullrich won in 1997 and raced very well in 1998 (the year Pantani won).

Ullrich won in 1997 and raced very well in 1998 (the year Pantani won).

Except for one stage where he lost lots of time.

In a previous post mollusk all but gave the answer to which was the Tour in the 90s with no returning winner.

Except for one stage where he lost lots of time.

In a previous post mollusk all but gave the answer to which was the Tour in the 90s with no returning winner.

Ahh, I had 'em backwards. For some reason, I was thinking that Ullrich won the year after Pantani. Oh well...


This year's tour may not have been the best. But after today's news, it may turn out to be the most infamous. There were no big rivalies, but the scandal alone will keep it in people's memories...:(

This year's tour may not have been the best. But after today's news, it may turn out to be the most infamous. There were no big rivalies, but the scandal alone will keep it in people's memories...:(

The scandal of this years tour pales compared to some in the past. At least no one died. Also no knives leading to entire teams (including both the favorite and GC leader at the time) walking out.

But you may be right. I think a lot may depend on Basso and Ulrich. If they get cleared and Landis gets DQed the irony may keep this tour remembered.

The scandal of this years tour pales compared to some in the past. At least no one died. Also no knives leading to entire teams (including both the favorite and GC leader at the time) walking out.

But you may be right. I think a lot may depend on Basso and Ulrich. If they get cleared and Landis gets DQed the irony may keep this tour remembered.

Now that would be a remarkable twist if those from Op. Puerto get cleared and Landis gets the boot. To be honet though, considering the other guys got pulled and they never even were tested, its hard for me to believe that Floyd is going to get out of this. Phonak has already suspended him and they're trying to recover from the Tyler Hamilton boot. Ullrich got canned for being linked to a scandal. Although I think T-Mobile were kinda looking for an excuse to drop him and move on. Its looking like this tour will be remembered for the doping scandal.

I wonder how the poll would turn out if I had started it today?

The look on Jimmy Casper's face after he won the first stage is certainly memorable. And Kessler finishing the tour after that incredible crash and still wearing the t-shirt made for excellent entertainment. The McQwen (sp) Boonen rivalry, exciting! I think all the guys that finished ought to get their glory for a job well done !