Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - Long Distance Night Riding

With the heat here in the NE, I've been waiting till dusk to start pedalling. My last 2 rides had me returning well after dark. I enjoy the night riding - nothing quite like it...

So, here are some observations - (you other LD gurus chime in, please) -

Equipment -

Even before Brevet riding I struggled with lighting, primarily while commuting. I've gone through my share of battery powered Cateye's, eventually investing in a modestly expensive Night Rider system. The NR worked well for about a month - but had range (bat charge limitations), and was sent back to the factory twice for repair (their customer service is phenomenal, BTW)... the straw that broke its back was it failing on a rainy 18 mile commute, well after 10PM, out in the boonies. It's been sitting in my "almost worked" collection of bike stuff.

Currently I ride a Schmidt Dyno Hub with dual Schmidt E6 headlights (http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/schmidt-lumotec.asp). I wish I'd have spent the $$ a few years ago on this rather than all the batteries and headaches. I love this setup. With dual lights it is very bright - and it runs as long as I can turn the pedals.

I've added a DanoLite LED (http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/danolite.asp) to my helmet for navigation (cue sheets, street signs, etc.) This light is super light - only 18g on your head - and the burn time on the batteries is stated as 2.6 hours. By using the light selectively I've gotten far longer than 2 hours out of it... The first 2 DanLites I used failed at the bond between the aluminum clip and the LED. Peter White has replaced both of these - and I emailed the manufacturer who assured me that the 2 were a fluke - (I HOPE!) - a problem in his early manufacturing process. I'm on my 3rd light now and it seems fine. I want this light to work problem free - as it is so light on your head! and BRIGHT (http://www.danolite.com/)!

On the handlebars I've got a micro white LED. This can be set to blink or steady - and is my "be seen" light if I'm at a stop and the E6's aren't on. It comes in handy when changing batteries in my headlamp - and I even used it to read my cue on my 600k when my headlamp failed.

I've got a standard LED rear blinky, along with a micro red LED on the left chainstay, and bar end blinkies.

I wear ankle bands (http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&productId=1520&parent_category_rn=40004282), as well as a Amphipod (http://www.amphipod.com/440-448/448.html).

I'm happy with the set-up - but am researching alternatives to the Schmidt E6 lights. I may be trying a LED or Lumotech and see how they compare.


Riding:

I run a single E6 from the time the sun starts dropping. This helps with visibility down the road.

Dusk and Dawn are the most challenging times to see the road - headlights of oncoming cars seem to overpower the E6's, and my eyes seem to be adjusting to the fading light. The road right in front of me often disappears. I'll often leave the headlamp on - as it's bright enough to light the road in front of me.

After dark I have both E6's running, and I'll selectively use the headlamp for navigating.

Glasses - clear or yellow "shooting" lenses - keeps the bugs out of your eyes! (I learned this painfully) - bugs like your lights - and like a car, my bike is splattered with em!

Eating and drinking - I tend to eat and drink a bit more at night - trying to keep my energy up - it can get a bit demoralizing and isolating to be riding along in a bubble of light for long periods of time.

Descending - I do this fast on roads that I know - its fun "flying" after dark... but where I'm not sure, I take it a bit slower. I'm weary of the NE's roads, and when it starts to get choppy, I put on the brakes.

Climbing - is interesting in the dark. If you don't know the terrain you don't really know how hard to work - and getting in tune with my breathing and cadence seems easier - I'm certainly more in tune with this at night - just me and my bike - and the sound of my breathing and the tires on the road.

Stopping to take it all in - last night I rode out on some very quiet roads. I stopped to watch thousands of fireflies light up a field. UNREAL. Equally unreal was turning off all my lighting equipment and looking up - a thousand times more stars than there were fireflies. Made all that climbing worth it.

Traffic - you know cars are coming a long ways out - as you are typically lit up well in advance when the pass from behind. When coming from the front I try to flash my headlamp in the cars direction (often times the brights will go off then!), and then I focus on the edge of the road - trying not to get blinded. I've had on occasion to come to a near stop until I was passed by a driver who didn't turn off his brights - I couldn't see the road right in front of me!


Any other tips? Thoughts? Tricks?

thanks dude! you're up there with machka and spokenword a long-distance gurus!:)

My current rig is a 5-led handlebar lamp clamped to my front fork for 'primary' lighting, a Sigma Sport EvoX (http://www.sigmasport.com/us/produkte/beleuchtung/powerlights/evox/?punkt=features) halogen that I have strapped to my helmet, and a blackburn 3-led red taillight. It's totally the 'low-investment' / ghetto approach to brevet lighting, with multiple weak points; but it got me through a 600k, so it's certainly doable if not advisable.

With fresh batteries, the 5-LED is bright enough to see the road on backcountry roads, and I never feel like I have to hold back, but it rapidly loses power over the long haul, and usually within three hours it's degraded into a weak glow. Good for being seen by other motorists and good enough for riding in the city, but not enough to see the road on a moonless or overcast night with no other lights but you and the fireflies. Riding with 4AM starts, it's usually been ok, since there's only one or two hours of complete darkness before the sun is high enough to make lighting superfluous, but I was pretty much swapping batteries at every night control on my 600.

The halogen helmet lamp is a super-bright 10W bulb and is used as a backup for the 5-LED and so that I can read my cues and instruments at night. The rechargeable battery has a 3 hour runtime, and also needs to be used sparingly for night riding. The battery pack is also kind of heavy, and I had issues with the battery cable getting kinked and causing my light to fade on the 400k. Fortunately, the retailer was happy to exchange the part. All the same, I'd think twice of using a light with a rechargeable battery pack, as the cable seems to be a vulnerable point of failure.

For next year I will be getting a dynamo hub with paired E6's mounted on the lowrider bosses of my fork. I didn't want to sink in the money for a dynamo wheel until I was committed to randoneering, but after completing a Super-Randonneur series and contemplating a 1200 multi-day brevet, it definitely makes sense now. The dynamo is also good for commuting use.

I also wear a pair of yellow tinted glasses for night riding. I find it helps to cut down on the glare of oncoming cars, but SUVs with hi-beams are still the bane of my existence.

I can also confirm what mike says about lights being bug magnets. I never had to deal with it that much in Massachusetts because the streets that I ride through never get that dark, and there's always a street light somewhere that draws more bugs than me. But night-time upstate New York was a totally different story. As soon as I'd turn on my halogen, I swear it was like every insect in a 100 yard radius would just kamikaze into me. Obviously, putting the brightest light in your rig on your head has its consequences.

FoxFury features their Performance Bike System
http://www.foxfury.com/products/performance_series/bike/bike.htm
The blurb says "Ideal for: Bicycling at speeds up to 25 mph (40 km/h)."
"Fits Handlebar as well as Forehead and/or a Helmet"
24 White LEDs
Weight: 11.6 oz (328 g)
Switches from a handlebar light to headlamp in less than 10 seconds
Operates on 4 AA Batteries
Battery Life: 6-8 hours (Full); 12 hours (Reserve)
Waterproof to 20 ft (6 m)
Cost = $134.99 USD

It is probably an ultimate light, esp. at that price.

However, I like to ride with two CatEye EL500 battery lamps.
The EL500 is the latest version from CatEye with an 80 hour life to the 4 AA batteries.
On a few of the night rides my daughter made, I was in the car looking for her and could see her EL500 light for about a mile.
I have had cars flash their lights when I approached them -- they thought I was a car with my high beams on.
The pattern on the road is a bright spot in the middle and two concave branches (not quite as bright as the spot) off to either side.
Along with the EL500, I use a standard battery-powered bulb-type light (rather than LED)

Never believe manufacturer run times for battery lights. They are always optimistic, battery capacity and output reduces over time, and is often dependent on temperature, etc.

Test your lights in the rain, a significant percentage fail after 3+ hours of rain (front or rear).

Some headlight beam patterns are particularly unhelpful in fog or rain.

We are overdue for a wet PBP...

I use this on my weekly in the dark century rides. It runs a little longer than claimed. And as long as claimed in the cold. You get what you pay for.

8 hours of bright light. The new model is 9 hours. This is the best piece of night riding equipment I have ever seen or read about.

http://www.lupine.de/en/products/komplett/edi10.html

I'm glad you have tested your light's runtime 2manybikes. Many don't performed as claimed, whether from manufacturing variations or manufacturer's optimism. I've found that more money doesn't necessarily improve those things greatly.

I'm glad you have tested your light's runtime 2manybikes. Many don't performed as claimed, whether from manufacturing variations or manufacturer's optimism. I've found that more money doesn't necessarily improve those things greatly.

I agree they typically don't for a variety of reasons. I would have to say that most lights have the run time listed under ideal conditions. I think someone shopping for a new light should take your advice.

When I was told by the shop I was buying the light from that I would get a good run time in the cold I really didn't believe them. That's the reason I tested it in the first place. Plus it justified another ride. :rolleyes:

So far, the same batteries (AA Duracell) in my CatEye EL500 have last almost 40 hours of use on several rides. While they may not last 80 hours as claimed, 40 hours is pretty good in my books -- and they haven't quit yet.

I've used NiMH rechargeable batteries in my EL500s and run them all night without problem.

I use this on my weekly in the dark century rides. It runs a little longer than claimed. And as long as claimed in the cold. You get what you pay for.

8 hours of bright light. The new model is 9 hours. This is the best piece of night riding equipment I have ever seen or read about.

http://www.lupine.de/en/products/komplett/edi10.html

I run a Light and Motion ARC Li-ION setup which produces 6 hours of 13.3 W HID light which is equivalent to 40 Watt Haologen. I feel comfortable up to 35mph on downhills. Going 25mph on flats, I do not run out of light.

I run a Light and Motion ARC Li-ION setup which produces 6 hours of 13.3 W HID light which is equivalent to 40 Watt Haologen. I feel comfortable up to 35mph on downhills. Going 25mph on flats, I do not run out of light.

A good bright headlight is such a pleasure, adds to the fun of night riding and makes things so much safer. It's too bad you have to pay for them. They should give them away.:rolleyes:

When I use a light at dark it is one of those cateye battery models. Works fine for when I need it. I don't use it much, though
Why? You described very well the benefits of riding without lights.
I see the road just fine without and often I believe to see the entire roadway much better without a light directing my vision towards the center of the road. I think the night is the best time to pedal. I also do not like heat. Well, I don't like sweating unless I'm going all out and I don't often go all out unless I have competition which I never have.
I go as fast as I care to. No problems.

SunofSand,
I agree that riding on some roads at night can easily be done without a light;
but if you were to ride where I have ridden, it would be a different story.
It is "pitch" black with no street lights, no houses, tall pines on either side of the road.
Unless you have much better eyes than I have (and that is certainly a possibility), there is absolutely no way you could see the road. Besides, the road has a lot of cracks and holes to avoid.
The worst, though, are the sneaky dogs and wild life. They would catch you unaware.

While you might not need a headlight, I hope you have a good tail light (and reflective clothing) so that approaching vehicles can see you.

My experience riding brevets at night is that the routes are generally on rural roads with little ambient light. My eyes adapt to the very low light conditions and so I do not require high powered lights to see the road ahead. Mounting two Catey EL500 LED lights about midway down on the fork casts long shadows that make it quite easy to see obstacles and road imperfections at normal cycling speeds. I setup the two lights so one beam projects further down the road than the other with just a bit of overlap. I also use a helmet mounted Petzle LED lamp for reading cue sheets, computer, and street signs.

I would not even consider an SLA battery light that gave me only 3.5 hours of use. That's worthless for any long distance riding and comes at a very high weight penalty.

1) Don't even speak to me about lights ... I've never had a light successfully finish a ride with me. OK, that's not quite true ... the cheap little Planet Bike lights are reasonable, although not very bright, and not very long lasting (3 hours tops). I'm still working on the lighting thing. But a helmet light is a very good investment ... you can see road signs so much easier with one!

2) Reflective gear ... see attached photo :)

3) Glasses ... I'm still working on this issue too. My problem is that I'm as blind as a bat without my prescription glasses. I've tried to get prescription sports glasses but the curve of the glasses throws the prescription right off, and objects ahead of me are much, much closer than they appear. I nearly rode into the rear end of a vehicle the first time I wore them. So bugs and tearing up are a part of my night riding life.

4) Eating and drinking ... I tend to forget to eat and drink when I ride at night. After all, who eats after 10 pm?? To solve that problem, I put a Bento bag on my bicycle which contains my food. With my food right in front of me, I'm more inclined to eat, and my night riding has improved.

5) Descending ... I'm as slow as molassas on a cold winter day on descents at night. I always feel a bit gyped when there are descents at night because I can never enjoy them. There are two issues with descents, one is the fact that I over-run my lights and can hit potholes (and if there is a single pothole anywhere on the road, I will hit it), and the second is the fact that all sorts of wildlife are prone to leap out of the bushes in front of the bicycle. On flat ground, this is not such a big deal because I'm not going that fast, but it could be a big deal on a descent. I suppose a better lighting system might help.

6) Climbing ... climbing at night is weird and I'm much more inclined to walk hills in the dark - because I can't judge where the top is and how much effort I need to exert. However, I will add that if the hill is relatively gradual, I can climb it without realizing that I've been climbing. Somewhere about 3/4 of the way up the hill, I'll start to feel like I'm working harder than I think I should be and will realize that I'm actually climbing a hill. The same thing happens in a thick fog.

Riding at night can be quite a good experience ... I've seen fireflies, all sorts of wildlife that tend to come out between dusk and dawn, the aurora borealis, stunning sunsets and sunrises. :) And on an event like the Last Chance, riding at night was almost preferable to riding during the day because the sense of sound became more important than the sense of sight ... we could hear the coyotes, the pumps and sprinklers in the fields, and so on ... and we could imagine that there was actually scenery out there!! :D

On top of good headlight and taillight, think of adding a lightweight flashing LED helmet light.. You can direct the light at approaching cars.. I found this to work the best of all.. You can use a Princeton TEC aurora or the New EOS.. The EOS can also double as a decent light in a pinch, when used in standard mode.. I found these 2 lights to have the most adjustability when used on a helmet and the best thing is that they are very lightweight, right at 3 ounces w/ batteries installed.. You just need 12 to 18 inches of velcro with a loop, similar to a pump strap and your ready to go.. Princeton tec actually now sells these as bike lights.. They come with both handlebar and helmet mounts and are under 50.00.. The EOS is a 1 watt Luxeon star which is 4x brighter than the stock 3 led headlamp..

http://www.princetontec.com/products/index.php?use=4

http://www.geocities.com/mar10stuff/girohelmetwaurora.jpg

Hi, I am new to randonneuring and have been wondering how to mount the EL 500 to the fork, which you say you have done, b/c with aerobars + computer, handlebar space is at a premium-- also I hear that lights work better when mounted lower down. Could you describe your setup, and tell me where you got it?

Thanks


My experience riding brevets at night is that the routes are generally on rural roads with little ambient light. My eyes adapt to the very low light conditions and so I do not require high powered lights to see the road ahead. Mounting two Catey EL500 LED lights about midway down on the fork casts long shadows that make it quite easy to see obstacles and road imperfections at normal cycling speeds. I setup the two lights so one beam projects further down the road than the other with just a bit of overlap. I also use a helmet mounted Petzle LED lamp for reading cue sheets, computer, and street signs.

I would not even consider an SLA battery light that gave me only 3.5 hours of use. That's worthless for any long distance riding and comes at a very high weight penalty.

Hi, I am new to randonneuring and have been wondering how to mount the EL 500 to the fork, which you say you have done, b/c with aerobars + computer, handlebar space is at a premium-- also I hear that lights work better when mounted lower down. Could you describe your setup, and tell me where you got it?

Thanks

Here is a pic of the light mounts on my Surly LHT:

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/2699/635/1600/fork%20lights%201.0.jpg

Here are the details on how I mounted them:

http://vikapproved.blogspot.com/2006/08/fork-lights.html

If you don't have any rack mounts midway up your fork legs you can use Cronometro NOBs to get the same effect. They wouldn't be as secure, but people seem to be happy with them. My new long distance bike has no mid-fork braze ons so I'll be trying them out this winter and seeing how they work for me. I was thinking of applying a bit of shoe goo to the forks when I mounted the NOBs to reduce the likelihood they would slip.

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/images/products/Lights/nobonfork1.jpg

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/images/products/Lights/nobonfork4.jpg

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/light-mounts.asp

1) Don't even speak to me about lights ... I've never had a light successfully finish a ride with me. OK, that's not quite true ... the cheap little Planet Bike lights are reasonable, although not very bright, and not very long lasting (3 hours tops). I'm still working on the lighting thing. But a helmet light is a very good investment ... you can see road signs so much easier with one!


I know you don't want to spend a lot on a light system. I know you have tried a few different things and have something that works at the moment with two different lights. I remember most of what you have said before about lights.

But, I was just curious, how long does a light need to run in one night to give you enough, plus a little more in case of a flat or something ? Worst case, longest night. 4:00 pm to 5:00 am? 13 hours? longer?

Does it need to run a number of days in a row at night? 2 days, 3 days?

The "nobs" above work well, though some folks I know had problems with them slipping on a tapered fork. If you use them, be sure to put a rubber pad or some double stick tape underneath the strap. I used some Minoura stubs that have a metal strap. These work well, but are not recommended for carbon fiber forks. If you have a carbon fork,, go with the nobs.

The "nobs" above work well, though some folks I know had problems with them slipping on a tapered fork. If you use them, be sure to put a rubber pad or some double stick tape underneath the strap. I used some Minoura stubs that have a metal strap. These work well, but are not recommended for carbon fiber forks. If you have a carbon fork,, go with the nobs.

The nobs do work well. I used them on my LeMond with carbon fork for this past season's brevets. I had to find a sweet spot before the for tapered - and I used some exterior 3M adhesive rubber stuff under them... held the E6's just fine.

Yes, agreed about something under the nob, but also something *under* the nob... that is four or five rounds of electrical tape wrapped around the fork just below where you intend positioning the nob. This provides a ridge that will prevent the nob from sliding down the fork. The only weakness is *really* hot weather in which the adhesive on the tape softens too much, but it is more likely the tape will bunch up at the top of the wrap.

four or five rounds of electrical tape wrapped around the fork

There ya go! My nobs have never budged. I :love: electrical tape -- my bike is festooned with the stuff.

I just implemented a Shimano Hub 3n71 solution hooking it up to 4 Luxeon 3 lights. It is plenty Bright and so far is working out well. A friend and I are running a 200k permanent starting at 10 pm Friday night just for kicks. Should be a good test of the new light. I use a Princeton Tec EOS as a backup and standlight when stopped.

As far as eating and drinking at night, usually I have been following a schedule of eating all day so it just comes naturally to me at night. I do have to watch not overconsuming fluids at night though as that slows down as the heat drops.

I know you don't want to spend a lot on a light system. I know you have tried a few different things and have something that works at the moment with two different lights. I remember most of what you have said before about lights.

But, I was just curious, how long does a light need to run in one night to give you enough, plus a little more in case of a flat or something ? Worst case, longest night. 4:00 pm to 5:00 am? 13 hours? longer?

Does it need to run a number of days in a row at night? 2 days, 3 days?


On my brevets, ideally my lights need to run from about 7pm to about 7am, and ideally they need to run for anywhere from 1 to 4 nights in a row ... however if they happen to be battery lights, they just need to run 1 night, and I can replace the batteries during the day.

That said .... I have now been outfitted with a Schmidt hub lighting system which I used on the BMB and on the UMCA 24-hour. It seems to work quite well, although I have seen some systems which run two lights and that seems to be better (brighter) so I may consider something like that too. I did discover that when riding in the rain, the road sucks up the light so it is very hard to see. In that situation, I dug out my Cateye EL500 and shone it right in front of the wheel. That helped. So the combination of hub and battery lights might be the ideal way to go.

On my brevets, ideally my lights need to run from about 7pm to about 7am, and ideally they need to run for anywhere from 1 to 4 nights in a row ... however if they happen to be battery lights, they just need to run 1 night, and I can replace the batteries during the day.

That said .... I have now been outfitted with a Schmidt hub lighting system which I used on the BMB and on the UMCA 24-hour. It seems to work quite well, although I have seen some systems which run two lights and that seems to be better (brighter) so I may consider something like that too. I did discover that when riding in the rain, the road sucks up the light so it is very hard to see. In that situation, I dug out my Cateye EL500 and shone it right in front of the wheel. That helped. So the combination of hub and battery lights might be the ideal way to go.

The dual Schmidt E6 off the dyno is the way to go. I only use the single beam during low light and misty. foggy rides as a "be seen" light, and while climbing.

I will be adding a small Cateye to the bars. Nice to point on the road or have available for other uses.

I just implemented a Shimano Hub 3n71 solution hooking it up to 4 Luxeon 3 lights. It is plenty Bright and so far is working out well. A friend and I are running a 200k permanent starting at 10 pm Friday night just for kicks. Should be a good test of the new light. I use a Princeton Tec EOS as a backup and standlight when stopped.

As far as eating and drinking at night, usually I have been following a schedule of eating all day so it just comes naturally to me at night. I do have to watch not overconsuming fluids at night though as that slows down as the heat drops.

Can you give some specifics on the Luxeon setup? Is it a home brew? Did I ask you this already somewhere else? Did it come with the right optics?

I've very little expereince setting this stuff up - so I know not the differences and hardware needed between various lighting systems.

Here is the basic description of the system. I ordered 4 Luxeon III LEDs and 4 collimator lenses with a narrow focus. To this I added a BuckPuck to process the 6 volt 3 w input from the hub. In front of the buckpuck in the circucit is a bridge rectifier to take the AC and convert it to DC. I basically built a very simple mount out of Aluminum angle stock from home depot and potted the leds and collimators in epoxy so it is very waterproof. Will post a picture when I get home tonight although I haven't gotten to the stage of making it pretty yet, it is a functioning prototype at this point. It flashes a bit from 3 mph to 5 mph but is pretty steady above that (and a few capacitors would probably eliminate that but I don't mind it and simple is nice). The brightness increases up through 20 -25 mph before it peaks.

Oops, forgot to mention I wired them in parallel series so Two leds are one series and two LEDS are wired as another parallel series. This is good because if one LED by some wierd reason fails I still have two Luxeon IIIs lit up.

If you are interested I will write up instructions. You would need to figure out a handlebar mount as mine is a bottom bracket mount due to that being the foremost part of my recumbent.

I'm not sure if this light I'm going to show you is any good because I have never heard of nor seen it in action, but it sounded interesting but expensive: http://www.worldcycling.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=EXLTET&Affiliate=EMAIL

This light use two 5 watt Luxeon LED's that can run on low for almost 9 hours, or days if just flashing. The battery is self contained so no water bottle space being used.

Here is the basic description of the system. I ordered 4 Luxeon III LEDs and 4 collimator lenses with a narrow focus. To this I added a BuckPuck to process the 6 volt 3 w input from the hub. In front of the buckpuck in the circucit is a bridge rectifier to take the AC and convert it to DC. I basically built a very simple mount out of Aluminum angle stock from home depot and potted the leds and collimators in epoxy so it is very waterproof. Will post a picture when I get home tonight although I haven't gotten to the stage of making it pretty yet, it is a functioning prototype at this point. It flashes a bit from 3 mph to 5 mph but is pretty steady above that (and a few capacitors would probably eliminate that but I don't mind it and simple is nice). The brightness increases up through 20 -25 mph before it peaks.

Oops, forgot to mention I wired them in parallel series so Two leds are one series and two LEDS are wired as another parallel series. This is good because if one LED by some wierd reason fails I still have two Luxeon IIIs lit up.

If you are interested I will write up instructions. You would need to figure out a handlebar mount as mine is a bottom bracket mount due to that being the foremost part of my recumbent.

Thanks... very helpful. I'll have to brush up on my electrical wiring skills if I were to take this on.

Thanks... very helpful. I'll have to brush up on my electrical wiring skills if I were to take this on.


It is actually a pretty simple circuit. The buckpuck has all it's leads marked as to what they should be connected to and the Rectifier is a pretty simple device. I will post a picture of how I joined the aluminum angle stock (the lamp never even gets warm, I could probably shrink it a bit). The lamp parts run around $50 total with Buckpuck which brings it in cheaper than the E6. If you want a schematic I could draw you one up.

It is actually a pretty simple circuit. The buckpuck has all it's leads marked as to what they should be connected to and the Rectifier is a pretty simple device. I will post a picture of how I joined the aluminum angle stock (the lamp never even gets warm, I could probably shrink it a bit). The lamp parts run around $50 total with Buckpuck which brings it in cheaper than the E6. If you want a schematic I could draw you one up.


A diagram would be great.
Any problems with this blowing out at high speed?
If you run 1 set of LEDs at low speed, do they flicker as much?

I'm not sure if this light I'm going to show you is any good because I have never heard of nor seen it in action, but it sounded interesting but expensive: http://www.worldcycling.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=EXLTET&Affiliate=EMAIL

This light use two 5 watt Luxeon LED's that can run on low for almost 9 hours, or days if just flashing. The battery is self contained so no water bottle space being used.

The problem with this sort of light is that you pay a very high premium for those two 5W LEDs. But in order to get all night use, you have to run them on low power - probably around 1W. Better to just get a lower power (and cheaper) LED light.

This light looks like it would be a great commuter light. 10W of LED light would be quite bright. But it doesn't have the runtime for endurance cycling.

Heres the schematic.
http://www.lamanchadesign.com/images/light schematic.bmp

The rectifier I got to handle an amp or two of current and the Buckpuck was of a type that could take up to 32 volts.

A diagram would be great.
Any problems with this blowing out at high speed?
If you run 1 set of LEDs at low speed, do they flicker as much?


I have been up over 30 with out either the buckpuck or the leds even warm. The flicker is not due to the amount of LEDs but rather the magnets in the Dynohub. A few Capacitors in the circuit would eliminate that but on a recumbent if I am pedalling slow enough for it to really flicker I am in danger of falling over so I figure it is not an issue for me.

Heres the schematic.
The rectifier I got to handle an amp or two of current and the Buckpuck was of a type that could take up to 32 volts.

Thanks. Very cool.
What would the capacitor you mention do? [edit: never mind, you answered it faster than I can type!]

When you get a chance, a photo would be great. PM or post...

Thanks. Very cool.
What would the capacitor you mention do?


It smooths out the electrical fluctuations the hub has at low speeds. The e6 light bulbs have a filament and produce light due to the filaments temperature, quick fluctuations in electrical current aren't going to affect the heat of a light filament too much but an LED is an instant on instant off type light source and so it is more noticeable with LED at extremely low speeds.

On my brevets, ideally my lights need to run from about 7pm to about 7am, and ideally they need to run for anywhere from 1 to 4 nights in a row ... however if they happen to be battery lights, they just need to run 1 night, and I can replace the batteries during the day.

That said .... I have now been outfitted with a Schmidt hub lighting system which I used on the BMB and on the UMCA 24-hour. It seems to work quite well, although I have seen some systems which run two lights and that seems to be better (brighter) so I may consider something like that too. I did discover that when riding in the rain, the road sucks up the light so it is very hard to see. In that situation, I dug out my Cateye EL500 and shone it right in front of the wheel. That helped. So the combination of hub and battery lights might be the ideal way to go.


I thought about this rainy road effect and think it has something to do with the water increasing the roads smooth surface reflectivity. Thus your light beam hits the road and instead of the individual little road pebbles reflecting back at you a glassy sheet of water bounces your beam on ahead into the night at the same angle it struck the road ahead of you. Thus you lose a lot of light to the water reflecting it away instead of the reduced amount of light that penetrates the water and actually bounces off the comparably uneven surface of the road. That being said I don't think there is any good way of avoiding this except for a brighter light to get more light penetrating to the road.

It smooths out the electrical fluctuations the hub has at low speeds. The e6 light bulbs have a filament and produce light due to the filaments temperature, quick fluctuations in electrical current aren't going to affect the heat of a light filament too much but an LED is an instant on instant off type light source and so it is more noticeable with LED at extremely low speeds.

Correct me if I am wrong, Paul, but aren't LEDs a one-way power device -- they can take power from only one cycle of the alternating current from a dyno-hub? Would this mean that at low speed the flashing that can be seen with a normal filament globe in fact becomes more pronounced with an LED because one cycle of the power output is missed?

Correct me if I am wrong, Paul, but aren't LEDs a one-way power device -- they can take power from only one cycle of the alternating current from a dyno-hub? Would this mean that at low speed the flashing that can be seen with a normal filament globe in fact becomes more pronounced with an LED because one cycle of the power output is missed?
That's what the Bridge Rectifier is for. It is a set of 4 diodes designed to only allow Electricity to flow in one direction, so you get both jolts from the cycle in the same polarity thereby making a DC current. If I were only getting half the cycle the flashing would probably be noticeable up to 8 mph or so.
And for the record, people who have hooked their buckpucks directly into the dyno hubs have had them burn up at higher speeds. Not to mention the fact they probably shortened the life of their LEDs substantially trying to push current the wrong way across them.

I'm not sure if this light I'm going to show you is any good because I have never heard of nor seen it in action, but it sounded interesting but expensive: http://www.worldcycling.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=EXLTET&Affiliate=EMAIL

This light use two 5 watt Luxeon LED's that can run on low for almost 9 hours, or days if just flashing. The battery is self contained so no water bottle space being used.

It was tested in Cycling Plus magazine about a year ago. It's not very bright but it's well made. There are some nightime beam photos of it compared to other lights on one of the links provided in the thread
"light selection guide" here in the forums. The first post has the links. It has just about everything in that thread from last year.

Scroll down to the very last beam photo for that light. You can compare it to many other lights of all kinds.

http://terrengsykkel.no/img.php?d=guide/tester/lykter2005&id=1424

On my brevets, ideally my lights need to run from about 7pm to about 7am, and ideally they need to run for anywhere from 1 to 4 nights in a row ... however if they happen to be battery lights, they just need to run 1 night, and I can replace the batteries during the day.

That said .... I have now been outfitted with a Schmidt hub lighting system which I used on the BMB and on the UMCA 24-hour. It seems to work quite well, although I have seen some systems which run two lights and that seems to be better (brighter) so I may consider something like that too. I did discover that when riding in the rain, the road sucks up the light so it is very hard to see. In that situation, I dug out my Cateye EL500 and shone it right in front of the wheel. That helped. So the combination of hub and battery lights might be the ideal way to go.


It sounds like a wining set up to me. Just be prepared for blowing bulbs from the dynamo, if you expect it there's no problem.

If the light bulbs are halogen, expect them to blow in around 100 hours. All you need to do is carry a couple of spare bulbs. When the light gets yellow replace the bulbs and you may never blow one while riding. Or just use your total hour meter on the bike computer if you have one. You sound like you're good at planing ahead anyway.

From a great place to get info about hub dynamos

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/schmidt-lumotec.asp


My light's getting dim! Aaargh!

The 2.4 and 3 watt HS3 halogen bulbs used in all headlights for the SON will burn out eventually; usually after 100 hours or so. But before they burn out, they will get dim. This is due to particles from the filament coating the inside of the bulb. So if it seems that your system isn't as bright as it once was, don't worry, just replace the bulb.


Spare Bulbs

Spare bulbs for the headlights are not readily available at most bike shops or electronic supply shops. As far as I can tell, there is no other use here in the USA for the type of bulb used in the Lumotecs or Schmidt E6. So, while they are quite common in Europe, they are next to impossible to get here. However, I import them 400 to 500 at a time, and I have no difficulty whatsoever getting them. I generally have several hundred of each type in stock at any time, so you can always get them directly from me. Since they are quite inexpensive compared to postage, it makes sense to get several spares when you buy your system. Run time for the bulbs is roughly 100 hours.
The halogen bulbs used tend to get dim before they finally blow out. This is due to microscopic bits of the filament burning off and coating the inside surface of the bulb. So if you find your system isn't as bright as when it was new, just put in a new bulb. You should be pleasantly surprised at the difference.

The problem with this sort of light is that you pay a very high premium for those two 5W LEDs. But in order to get all night use, you have to run them on low power - probably around 1W. Better to just get a lower power (and cheaper) LED light.

This light looks like it would be a great commuter light. 10W of LED light would be quite bright. But it doesn't have the runtime for endurance cycling.

There are two of those 5 watt LED's in this light, and my understanding-though I could be wrong, is that low power is just one of those 5 watt LED's running. That light is expensive even more so then the Cateye Triple Shot but it only last 4 hours on low.

The problem with this sort of light is that you pay a very high premium for those two 5W LEDs. But in order to get all night use, you have to run them on low power - probably around 1W. Better to just get a lower power (and cheaper) LED light.

This light looks like it would be a great commuter light. 10W of LED light would be quite bright. But it doesn't have the runtime for endurance cycling.

Take a look at how the beam actually compares in a photo to other lights you may know about and have heard about on the forums.

It's the last photo at the bottom of the page. It's not bright. It's not as bright as the sigma 10 watt halogen above it. For about $80.

http://terrengsykkel.no/img.php?d=gu...er2005&id=1424

USE exposure vs. Sima 10watt halogen.

It was tested in Cycling Plus magazine about a year ago. It's not very bright but it's well made. There are some nightime beam photos of it compared to other lights on one of the links provided in the thread
"light selection guide" here in the forums. The first post has the links. It has just about everything in that thread from last year.

Scroll down to the very last beam photo for that light. You can compare it to many other lights of all kinds.

http://terrengsykkel.no/img.php?d=guide/tester/lykter2005&id=1424

The one tested was the OLD race lamp. Battery life is a probem on this and the two Luxions are both flood lamps.

I have the NEW Turbo Enduro and it is a completely different beastie. Twin 5w luxions- one a spot and one a flood- Double capacity battery and 3 Light settings. Low and high as in the non Turbo lamps but then the Turbo. THIS IS BRIGHT. Only has a life on turbo of 2 hrs 30 minutes but you do not use it all the time. On the low setting you have a life of 8 hours.

It may not be as powerfull as one of the better HID lamps, but I have found it fantastic. I do night rides offroad and the advantage of being a fully self contained lamp is a big bonus. I got fed up with pulling battery leads out on bushes- or by accident, and trying to route the leads down to a bottle carrier without having the steering or other accessories doing their best to break the leads. Disadvantages- Not as good as the best HID, but better than a lot of them, and it is not a cheap lamp..

Then on the road- Turbo cannot be used with oncoming traffic- It will blind them. Low setting is good enough for known roads, and you still have the middle & turbo if you want to see more. Don't get me wrong- I do not road ride often and for offroad- this lamp is good.

http://www.use1.com/exposure/products/exp_enduro/index.php

Yes, agreed about something under the nob, but also something *under* the nob... that is four or five rounds of electrical tape wrapped around the fork just below where you intend positioning the nob. This provides a ridge that will prevent the nob from sliding down the fork. The only weakness is *really* hot weather in which the adhesive on the tape softens too much, but it is more likely the tape will bunch up at the top of the wrap.

Rowan

a query for a fellow aussie: did you source the nobs in Australia? I have carbon ziccs ac forks on my orbea and they are quite wide and wonder if the would be big enough. I emailed Peter White re the son hubs and e6 lights and got a pretty terse response seemed to indicate a reluctance to deal internationally.

That's what the Bridge Rectifier is for. It is a set of 4 diodes designed to only allow Electricity to flow in one direction, so you get both jolts from the cycle in the same polarity thereby making a DC current. If I were only getting half the cycle the flashing would probably be noticeable up to 8 mph or so.
And for the record, people who have hooked their buckpucks directly into the dyno hubs have had them burn up at higher speeds. Not to mention the fact they probably shortened the life of their LEDs substantially trying to push current the wrong way across them.

Paul,

I have no experience with electronics whatsoever, but I'm cheap enough to consider trying to make something similar to what you've done. A photo of your apparatus would be extremely helpful. Any chance you could post one?

Thanks,

Z

Rowan

a query for a fellow aussie: did you source the nobs in Australia? I have carbon ziccs ac forks on my orbea and they are quite wide and wonder if the would be big enough. I emailed Peter White re the son hubs and e6 lights and got a pretty terse response seemed to indicate a reluctance to deal internationally.
Maybe Mr White has something against Australians. My non-experience with him was extremely disappointing. If you want real service out of his business, deal with Linda, and Linda only. She is excellent and will be as helpful as she possibly can be.

If you look closely at the website of the man-who-can't-be-bothered, I think you will find the nobs are Shimano, and they are used for attaching stuff to handlebars. Try your LBS, although I gather Perth shops aren't as good as they used to be.

My experience is with other gadgets attached to the fork, and the use of electrical tape to prevent slippage from the wider part to thinner part of the fork has been effective.

Paul,

I have no experience with electronics whatsoever, but I'm cheap enough to consider trying to make something similar to what you've done. A photo of your apparatus would be extremely helpful. Any chance you could post one?

Thanks,

Z
I have photos of it at home. I will try and get them up on my webpage. I will even pull the electrical tape off and photo the circuit for you if you want that.