I was riding with my friends on a two-way road where the cars travel about 50-60 mph. One of my friends tells me my brother got a flat (he was about 100feet behind me), and, seeing as how I was the only one with a fresh tire and a hand pump, I had to go back up the road bike lane to make the repair. However, as I'm going back up the lane, against incoming traffic, and I'm traveling extra slowly to be careful, a car pulls out of an apartment complex to the left of me. I see him and slow down to almost a halt. I watch him, and he looks as if he's about to take off, but then, stops. Thinking he had stopped, because he saw me--I even believed we made eye contact--I speed up to pass him, but as I'm in the middle of his car, he hits the gas and smashes into the middle of my frame, jettisoning me into the air. My head violently makes contact with the pavement (glad I was wearing a helmet), and I land in the incoming traffic lane (glad they stopped for me). Anyways, the insurance man just told my dad it was my fault, because I was riding against traffic. I live in Austin, Texas--was this my fault?
Falkon
07-21-06, 11:45 PM
NEVER NEVER NEVER ride against traffic! You obey the rules of the road. If you had done something similar in your car, would you expect insurance to pay?
fthomas
07-22-06, 12:35 AM
Unfortunately, the law is the law. It may have been better to have walked back.
I'm not an attorney or any type of legal expert, but common sense tells me that I would not rely on the judgement of an insurance adjuster. Particularly, the representative of the insurance company that covers the car.
A driver still has the responsibility to look both ways when entering a roadway, particularly if there was a sidewalk. Also, it would seem that a pedestrian walking against traffic would not have been unusual and the drivier probably would have hit them as well.
Most importantly I'm glad that you had a helmet on and did not suffer serious injuries.
Let us know how it goes.
Carusoswi
07-22-06, 04:32 AM
As fthomas states, it is probable that you will, unfortunately, be held responsible for this accident, even though you were trying your best to be careful. You may have thought you made eye contact with the driver - you may or may not have. You thought he was stopping to let you by, but, he may have noticed that you had slowed for him and, thus, dismissed you as he turned his attention to other traffic he had to deal with. You don't state whether you are of driving age, but, even as a cyclist, you have probably developed instincts that grow out of the traffic arrangement in this country that cars travel to the right and oncoming traffic passes on the left. This gets so ingrained in us, that we may actually look at a bike or another car coming the wrong way and not actually see it.
I am glad you weren't seriously injured - and it's great that you are participating here - there is a great wealth of knowledge concerning bikes and bike safety to be garnered here.
Good luck to you and be safe!
Caruso
nova
07-22-06, 08:06 AM
Tuff one by your description the driver almost seems to have done it delibratly.
A big tell would be if you knew if the car was manual or automatic. Ive had guys pull out like that in front of me because the clutch pedal stuck for a secound and poped the clutch stallign orr makign the car lurch. Any car that partialy stall can behave like that. Could be that he didnt see you was pulling out car partially or fully stalled he restarted and lurched in to you.
Even if you had been hit goign the right way while legaly drivers fault in that case moraly i dont think i could fault him to much over a miss behaving car. Id exchange info and strike some deal with him to pay for any damages out of his own pocket and not bring insurance companies in to it.
ryanparrish
07-22-06, 08:40 AM
Well I heard that if your piloting a cage on the road it is the responsibility of the pilot to make sure it is clear to go ahead even if there is a nut coming the opposite way on a bicycle
Bikepacker67
07-22-06, 08:58 AM
Hope you're OK, and have learned your lesson.
You are one lucky SOB
nova
07-22-06, 08:58 AM
Well I heard that if your piloting a cage on the road it is the responsibility of the pilot to make sure it is clear to go ahead even if there is a nut coming the opposite way on a bicycle
Theres a diffrence between legal responsability and moral ones. I could never moraly hold some driver responsable if he hit me while i was riding the wrong way. Even if the law would hold him responsable ( i dout thats the case most places)
IMO its no diffrent than me blowing a stop in a car or on a bike and getting hit for it. ITs not something that any one has a resonable expecttation of.
It woudl be nice if drivers did looked right when turning right or entering a road way for a wrong way cyclists even if your only doign a couple mph.
It still almost sounds like a partial stall. Drivers start pulling out stops then takes off again. Should have asked him id say. He probably did see you and your just barly moving waiting for him to pull out he starts to car stalls and then starts up he takes off just as your crossing his path and whap.
Typical crap happens accident.
slowandsteady
07-22-06, 10:30 AM
You were going the wrong way. He proceeded when the road was not clear. You are both at fault. With insurance matters it is rarely 100% right or wrong. They usually assign percentages.
John E
07-22-06, 11:35 AM
I am not an attorney, but slowandsteady's response regarding proportional blame makes sense to me.
I wonder who would have been held responsible if you had WALKED your bike back to help your brother. If you were indeed traveling contraflow at a pedestrian speed (<5mph/8kph), then whether you were riding or walking the bike is academic in practical terms, but presumably not from a legal standpoint.
To me, this shows the fallacy of "eye contact." I know some folks advocate negotiating one's own gaps in traffic, but how often to we hear about a motorist essentially looking THROUGH, rather than AT, a cyclist or a pedestrian? It never hurts to assume a given motorist doesn't notice you, even if you are in what should be his/her center field of vision.
This also illustrates the big fallacy in the conventional wisdom that pedestrians should walk contraflow. Doing so makes sense on a narrow, shoulderless road with few intersections or driveway cuts, but it is an open invitation to being hit by a motorist turning right from a driveway or side street.
nova
07-22-06, 11:53 AM
I am not an attorney, but slowandsteady's response regarding proportional blame makes sense to me.
I wonder who would have been held responsible if you had WALKED your bike back to help your brother. If you were indeed traveling contraflow at a pedestrian speed (<5mph/8kph), then whether you were riding or walking the bike is academic in practical terms, but presumably not from a legal standpoint.
To me, this shows the fallacy of "eye contact." I know some folks advocate negotiating one's own gaps in traffic, but how often to we hear about a motorist essentially looking THROUGH, rather than AT, a cyclist or a pedestrian? It never hurts to assume a given motorist doesn't notice you, even if you are in what should be his/her center field of vision.
This also illustrates the big fallacy in the conventional wisdom that pedestrians should walk contraflow. Doing so makes sense on a narrow, shoulderless road with few intersections or driveway cuts, but it is an open invitation to being hit by a motorist turning right from a driveway or side street.
Well even if the driver seen him and judged his speed correctly at that moment he probably had plnty of time to pull out and go on his or her way. I still feel like this was possibly a partial stall aka sputter with the car. OP asumes driver decided to let him out do to eye contact and speeds up to go through driver still has oot on gas pedal car responds finaly and whap. I had a car or to nearly tag me like that ended up slapping their hoods and seen the drive mouth of crap. In both i remember driver asked if i was ok answer yeh followed by somethign along the lines of sorry bout that car started to stall and lurched or clutch pedal stuck on me.. Both times i remember the drive had more than enough time to go through as i was slowing to make sure and seen them stop their move and sped up to not hold them up longer than needed.
Isnt any ones fault other than maybe the auto manufactures or gas station whos gas is bad etc.
To op i say live and learn and dont press it if your unhurt unless you think that maybe the driver did this purposfully as a way to teach a leason.
After my 2 little hood slappers i simply dont trust the car at the intersection and tend to move towards the next lane before picking up speed to increase my safty distance. And thats going in the right direction.
I think in your case id probably stay on the bike and just coast and shuv my self along with my foot as needed instead of activly pedaling along. sure wouldnt cross the street to go a 100 or so feet with wide shoulders. To much hassle and possibly more dangerous to cross the dang street twice
zergmachina
07-22-06, 12:21 PM
I was fine after I got hit and immediately got up. However, my bike is wrecked, the metal in the frame is completely folded in, and my carbon fiber fork snapped in half, and my aero bars broke. I'm not mad at the guy at all, he genuinely seemed concerned, because right away he asked me if I was hurt, and offered to call the ambulance. The thing is the guy was wearing shades, so that was probably my misunderstanding in thinking we had made eye contact. It seemed apparent though that he would have seen me even with shades because I was sure he looked in my direction. I was also at the center of his car before he took off. Even if he was looking to the left, I would think he would be able to see me. My dad just told me that the guy who took pictures of my bike and recorded the information and who said it was my fault isn't the person that makes the decision, he just gives his opinion. Does anyone know if it is in fact illegal to ride in the incoming lane in texas?
joejack951
07-22-06, 01:48 PM
Riding against traffic is illegal anywhere, unless riding in an official "bicycle facility" which just so happens to route you against traffic.
Richard Cranium
07-22-06, 02:27 PM
I live in Austin, Texas--was this my fault?
Yes. And any attempt to claim otherwise could position the court to be less understanding of your misguided attempt to come to the aid of a fellow cyclist.
thekorn
07-22-06, 02:30 PM
You were going the wrong way. He proceeded when the road was not clear. You are both at fault. With insurance matters it is rarely 100% right or wrong. They usually assign percentages.
I think slowandsteady has it right. But, the insurance company will invariably try to get out of paying, especially if you are young.
Roody
07-22-06, 03:12 PM
There's a pretty good bike safety website called Bicycle Safe. (http://bicyclesafe.com/) Coincidentally, it's based in Austin, TX, same place the OP is from. Here's part of what they say about wrong way cycling:
Don't ride against traffic. Ride with traffic, in the same direction.
Riding against traffic may seem like a good idea because you can see the cars that are passing you, but it's not. Here's why:
1. Cars which pull out of driveways, parking lots, and cross streets (ahead of you and to the left), which are making a right onto your street, aren't expecting traffic to be coming at them from the wrong way. They won't see you, and they'll plow right into you.
2. How the heck are you going to make a right turn?
3. Cars will approach you at a much higher relative speed. If you're going 15mph, then a car passing you from behind doing 35 approaches you at a speed of only 20 (35-15). But if you're on the wrong side of the road, then the car approaches you at 50 (35+15), which is 250% faster! Since they're approaching you faster, both you and the driver have lots less time to react. And if a collision does occur, it's going to be ten times worse.
Riding the wrong way is illegal and you can get ticketed for it. Bruce Mackey says that 25% of cycling collisions are the result of the cyclist riding the wrong way.
There's one possible exception to riding the wrong way. When you're riding in the country on narrow, high-speed roads, it may be helpful to ride against traffic so you can see what you're up against. Compared to city traffic, country traffic is likely to have less roadspace for bikes and cars to share. That being the case, riding the wrong way allows you to bail into the shoulder if a car doesn't see you. You don't have problem #1 above because side traffic is rare, and #2 is avoided because you're riding primarily along one road and not turning right.
zergmachina--do you think the excepion (I put it in bold type) would apply to your situation?
nm+
07-22-06, 03:33 PM
Damn, that exception sounds suicidal.
Country roads have hills, which create blind spots. Good luck bailing in the milisecond after one of you crest.