Road Cycling - Moving up from an entry level hybrid

Hi All,
I have scoured the forums here for some time and decided to register so that I may better benefit from the support and expertise of the membership.

I read many posts, so I am well aware that geometry and good/right fit is more an indicator of value and enjoyment than just price or components. I seek some feedback knowing that ultimately, I will fit and test-ride my final choices.

I am seeking a bicycle to replace my several year old entry-level Specialized Crossroads. The bicycle brought me back to the pleasures of riding. I did not have the technological knowledge or familiarity with components/materials then as I do now, so my $350 purchase was a big contemplation. I knew enough that a $99 super store bike would not do, so I went to my LBS for their advice and selection. By the time I met my wife and she bought a bike, I knew so much more about frame and components. Her $700 bike was a much better buy. Unfortunately, since she is a few inches taller than I (I am 5" 3" and have a 28 inch inseam) I cannot ride her bike very comfortably.

In recent years, I enjoyed mostly leisurely rides at a leisurely pace, finding myself in local parks, bike paths and boardwalks. On average, I ride about 15 miles at a time, but some rides surpass 30+ miles. Who knows, maybe one day I will enjoy a century. I have upraded the rims, put on slimmer tires and replaced the seat with a more ergonomically designed one. I have enjoyed the benefits of these modifications. The frame is rather heavy and the component group is mostly low-end Shimano MTB mix.

What I (think) I am looking for-
I expect that I will do most (75+%) of my rides at a leisurely pace. I do not want to compete or race, however I would like to be able to ride fasterwhen I want to and ride a lot longer, both without burning up a lot of effort in a bike which inefficiently addresses these needs. I know that the hybrid is not a popular choice, especially amongst the roadies, and I can appreciate the arguments against them for more advanced and ride-specific designs. I do like the more upright position of the flat bar. Riding (not supposed to speed!) on the boardwalk here in Long Beach, NY is where I will be doing a great deal of my riding. Other than that, it is the city streets and paved bike paths. I believe that being more upright would lend to a more enjoyable and leisurely ride. Bar ends can add some variety for when I wish to be more aero or speedy.

I have narrowed down my choices to some bikes which are flat-bar road bikes, hovering around $1000. Some of these bikes I have seen and experienced.

Trek 7700FX (Deore XT)
Trek 1200 (has a flat bar option for '03) (Tiagra)
Specialized Sirrus Pro '02 (Disc. for '03 and available for $900)
(Deore/Deore XT)
Fuji Royale (Shimano 05 in rear)

I walked into a few LBS expressing my interests and pointing out the 7700FX as my original choice. In two LBS, they seemed to agree with my choice but also showed me the Specialized, which usually at $1300 is available for $900. It is last year's discontinued model. One LBS had both the Fuji and the Trek 7700FX and felt that given my riding style/location, that out of the door, the 7700FX would seem to suit me better than the Fuji. One of the LBS that had and supported my choice of the 7700FX showed me the Flat-Bar road bike Trek 1200 as a worthy alternative. Not one of them was happy to suggest the Jamis Coda. None carried the line and expressed some concerns about the bike, not disimilar to what I read (but don't know whether to believe) about a lack of support and parts. In my case, certainly locally, that would be a fact.

I've said alot, and I hope that I have given you some insight into where I am. Your feedback and other recommendations will be gladly read and crammed into my head for further computation and consideration!

Rob

Hi Welcome....A lot of questions there.
For a starter I would like to pick up on your referal to comfort on bikes.
I ride both hybrid and road bikes, your stated preferance for the hybrid in that respect is somewhat misguided .
Although a road bike certainly at first seems a tad uncomfortable if your riding has been restricted to a comfort bike (so called). It is very much a case of growing into the bike. A more crouched position. harder narrower seat, thinner tyres all take several rides for your body to adapt and become flexible to the new positions, but now I prefer my road bike for comfort especially on longer duration rides.
As you mentioned initially on purchase it is wise to fit out a bike and get to ride as many as possible, that goes without saying...regards.

These bikes are really light touring, rather than racing bikes, ideally suited to fast day rides on the road, and capable of taking light luggage.
The classic light touring bike has a triple chainset , drop bars with a more upright position, and clearance and fittings for rack and fenders, without being any heavier than an equivelent racing bike.
Dont mistake them for full-on touring bikes which are built to haul camping loads up big mountains, these are fast , fun and useful.
Bianchi make a nice one:
http://www.bianchiusa.com/site/bikes/24_SanRemo.html
as do Jamis.

Drop bars do not mean you have to ride low and stretched out. In an upright position they give you the option to get down into headwinds and for better balance on descents.

I just went from my hybrid,cannondale silkpath which is for sale to more of a street bike,a flat bar Felt SR 71,you might want to check it out,www.feltusa.com

For an alternate to the flat bar,and more upright position,take a look at the Cannondale Sport models and Specialized Sirrus models with drop bars and a less agressive position.

Originally posted by Psykik
Not one of them was happy to suggest the Jamis Coda. None carried the line and expressed some concerns about the bike, not disimilar to what I read (but don't know whether to believe) about a lack of support and parts. In my case, certainly locally, that would be a fact.


Parts? There's nothing on any current Jamis that's not completely standard. Like most manufacturers, they're just bolting stock or OEM parts onto their frames.

As for "support," unless you hear a complaint from an owner working through a Jamis dealer, I would take it with a grain of salt. Particularly when info comes from competing dealers; Jamis bikes tend to be very good values, and it's hard for some brand name dealers to explain exactly why you should pay more for, say, a Trek.

As for your choice, the main concern as always is fit, so you should be test riding as many bikes as possible. The second concern is the dealer and the sense you get that you'll be comfortable with their support, service, and respect for the customer. One good benchmark for this is the amount of time and care they spend on fitting. You might also want to compare gearing; some of these bikes have wider ranges than others, which may or may not matter to you depending on if you do any climbing.

RichC

Originally posted by pokey
For an alternate to the flat bar,and more upright position,take a look at the Cannondale Sport models and Specialized Sirrus models with drop bars and a less agressive position.
That'd be the Sequoia line. I personally would recommend the Sirrus in this case.

I have read some discussion of light touring bikes (which may be closer to what I THINK I am looking for?). Some posts have referred to these bikes, but as a catagory/line of bikes, it seems as if the manufacturers are not as clear about specific bikes in this catagory. I am not really sure about which ones really meet this criteria.

Having a triple chain ring seems to be a plus. A road bike with a more relaxed geometry seems to be a consideration. There is quite a bit of nomenclature to still become versed in, thus my desire to post and listen here.

I want to better understand the benefits/compromises of road, touring and hybrid choices as they relate to my riding style and habits. I appreciate all of the feedback thus far, as I defer to the greater experience of others so that I may make a more informed and intellegent decision and discover additional specifications and bikes to add to the mix. The few LBS that I visited were vey accomodating. I figured that this time of year in NY, I can get better attention as the shops are less crowded. Again, the better I am informed, the better I know what to look for and the right questions to ask.

It seems that thus far, the Specialized Sirrus deserves some consideration, based on what I was told by two LBS, some feedback here and what I have read elsewhere. If I want last year's top of the line, it can be had for about $500 less than when it first came out (according to the prices at two LBS).

The Felt SR71 looks interesting. There are dealers in the New York City area, but none really close. (There is a LBS two blocks away from me.) There are not alot of reviews on the web or in the newsgroups about this bike. I wish I was able to read a bit more.

I might want to ride on 700 X 32 on the boardwalk. I have read some concerns about the forks and brakes on some bikes not allowing one to swap out a 26cc for a 32cc. Again, looking at the wider tires is also speculation on my part...

Yes, I am a research-junkie, but I can only beneffit by becoming well informed widening my horizon as it relates to narrowing down my search for a bike!

Rob

Originally posted by Waldo
That'd be the Sequoia line. I personally would recommend the Sirrus in this case. Sirrus is flat bar isn't it?I was suggesting he at least condsider a drop bar alternative,with a more upright position.

Drop bars ARE more comfortable than flat bars if you're going to ride a lot. You have multiple hand positions and that means less or no, numbness. I learned the hard way after wasting money on a "flat bar road bike". Don't waste yours!

Check out the Specialized Sequoia-compact frame for more upright seating, drop ergo-bars, relaxed geometry, roadbike gearing, suspension seatpost and carbon fork. The Expert is one heck of a bike. You'll ride fast, comfortable, have some suspension, and have a bike that will serve you for bike-path cruising, long-distance touring, and maybe light gravel/dirt path. A bike you will want to keep and not trade out in a year or two.

>>I might want to ride on 700 X 32 on the boardwalk. I have >>read some concerns about the forks and brakes on some bikes >>not allowing one to swap out a 26cc for a 32cc. Again, looking >>at the wider tires is also speculation on my part...
..A sensible consideration
http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/html/bikes_brakereach.html
You need a frame and fork built to take long-reach caliper brakes, you cant just put them onto a racing frame. I use the Shimano 105 version, and rate it very highly.

Guide to fitting non-competative bikes:
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm

Apart from the issue of tyre clearance and some threaded eyelets, there is not a whole lot of difference between a classic stage racing bike (for general long-distance racing), and a light touring bike.

I looked (online) at the Specialized Sequoi as some suggested. I did not assess them in my initial comparisions since the Specialized catalog provided by the LBS is a bit dated and this line was not represented.

The Sequoias may be more in line with what I seem to be looking for. The bar, although not flat-top, does offer position choices. The adjustable stem may be an asset as well.

The geometry is more upright. Components are road based...a plus, since I will not be off-roading. Most of the high end hybrids still borrow from MTB components.

The Sequoia Elite uses Ultegra components and the Expert uses New 105. The price of the Expert, around $1000 places it in my price-range. The Sport is even less expensive, but the components are not as impressive.

I seem to be morphing here...from the light hybrids to a comfort road bike. Now that I have been offered some valuable insights, it seems like a logical progression.

Given my consideration of the Sequoia, what are your suggestions, concerns and advice?

BTW, the Sequoia uses long reach brakes, which as I read in a link provided by a member, may be an asset if I wish to add/supplement the bike with wider (700 x 32) tires.

Getting more excited...
Rob:beer:

Plus the sequoia has a second set of brake levers on top of the bar so you can ride just about as you would a flat bar and i liked that about it. Options are good.

Originally posted by shokhead
Plus the sequoia has a second set of brake levers on top of the bar so you can ride just about as you would a flat bar and i liked that about it. Options are good.

Another attractive option to me.

Thanks

Pokey, I should've been more clear in my response. The Sirrus is the flat bar model, the Sequoia is the one with the drops. I don't have our catalog handy now as I am at home so I can't comment as to how the geometry varies between the two, if at all.

Welcome!

The only advice I can offer is that I put about 1200 miles on a Trek 7500FX last summer and fall before getting a true road bike. This hybred was almost as fast as my road bike because I was running 700x25 tires on the raod, but you can't get out of the wind and that does slow you down. I did experence the hand numbness that so many talk about and bar ends helped some, along with some good gloves, I don't experence this with the road bike setup. I also think that the amount of weight that the hands are taking have alot to do with hand problems, (poor fit).
If I were to go back and do it all over again I would have gotten a bike with drop bars from the beginning for mostly road riding. The distances you ride and the type of riding you list, flat bars may be fine.

Well, here is how my search has ended...

I sought an upgrade from my entry-level hybrid. After nearly 10 years and some tweaking, it had grown increasingly obvious that it was not meeting my needs.

I looked closely at the top end hybrids, for their light weight and greatly improved (over what I presently own) components.

I checked out the Trek 7700 FX.

With help of the forum, my eyes opened to other possibilities, namely the road bikes (no mixed components, just road) that had a "comfort" frame.

One that stuck out was the Sspecialized Sequoia. I liked what I saw and the "cheater" brakes were a nice addition for me, especially since on my leisurely rides on the local boardwalk, I could be more upright if I wanted.

I took the Sequoia for a test ride. I was impressed. As being a man of small stature and reach, I found that the bicycle was easily adjusted to my body.

I went with the "Expert" which uses the Shimano 105 groupo. For the extra few bucks, I felt that it was worth it, compared to the "Sport". The "Elite" uses Ultegra components, but for me, it did not justify the price.

So, I am excitedly looking forward to riding my '03 Specialized Sequoia. I thank all of you who participated in this thread.

BTW, I have installed the Shimano Flight Deck. Sure its a bit techno, but I like the virtual cadence feature without the wires.
The 105 is Flight Deck compatable.

Safe riding,
Rob Long Beach, NY :beer:

Hi,
I was very impressed with the Seqouia Expert, and it sounds like it is the sort of thing you're looking for. Might be worth a drive to find one to test ride. Bikes made for women have shorter top tubes,(which used to be popular since most people don't want to be bent way over) and might be something to look at. At your size,a 650c or a 26 inch wheel will give the bike better geometry than a 700c wheel.

Originally posted by late
Hi,
I was very impressed with the Seqouia Expert, and it sounds like it is the sort of thing you're looking for.

Hi Late...I did take it for a ride. Specialized has a 47cm frame (their XS) which seems to fit me well.

Thanks,
Rob

Psykik;

Iam jealous! I have been looking at the Sequoia Expert, but it has been much too cold to test ride one (Chicago area), I am leaning heaily toward a purchase (still want to test ride a Gian OCR1, and an equivelant Trek (2200) and the cannondale. But fro yourcomments and others it still appears that the Specialized is the "One"
Let me know how it rides!

Wigman

Originally posted by Wigman
Psykik;

Iam jealous! I have been looking at the Sequoia Expert, but it has been much too cold to test ride one (Chicago area), I am leaning heaily toward a purchase (still want to test ride a Gian OCR1, and an equivelant Trek (2200) and the cannondale. But fro yourcomments and others it still appears that the Specialized is the "One"
Let me know how it rides!

Wigman

Its been pretty cold here in NY also. Yesterday, it was in the 40's and sunny, so what the heck. I had to avoid the puddles and snow since I didn't want the bike to go back to the showroom in "used" condition.

It is nice and is what I wanted...but hey, there are other choices out there. I would recommend that you consider it, but despite the anxieties and excitement to buy a new bike...take it for a ride. Ask your LBS what they offer that is comparable (although they might want to encourage you to consider bikes they have in stock, my experience has been that the LBS will give you some honest equivalents). Look at the other models mentioned in the forums. Go to the manufacturer sites for additional information and details about components and design. Perhaps some of these may be more important considerations than others.

Everyone here says Fit...Fit..Fit...
That is true. Make sure you ask which frame might be the best to start with and try to ride a bike with that size frame. A great choice with too large or small a frame may not be a great ride.

As far as how it rides...for me, this is still early in the riding season. (Plus I haven't picked it up from the LBS yet!) I bought now because I figured that I could get better attention from the LBS than when the warm weather came and there were 50 people vying for the same attention. Likewise, you might find more choices in the shops now.

Happy hunting!
Rob

I bought my Sequoia expert about a month ago. I too think it's terrific. I don't think you will be able to get more than a 28mm tire on there though. What did you find out about the tire options?

Why screw up a nice bike with a tire bigger then 28,hell 28 is to big.

Hi,
what you mean is 28 is too big to suit your purposes. Want to try and cross the country on a 20? Didn't think so. My toring bike
has a 30, which is little small for a touring tire; but I think it's going to work out nicely. My personal take on this is that guys like you could save a lot of wear and tear, on body and bike, by running a larger tire when you're not actually competing. I am considering getting the Rivendell RolyPoly come summer; which is a 27. Nice tire.

What part of i think a 28 is to big dont you get.Look i had a 28 on my hybrid and it was a bit big{for me**.On my new bike it has a 23 which i was worried might be to small but i've gotten to really like it.A 26 would be a good size imo.Oh i would'nt ride on a 20 down the street,i'm chicken.

I upgraded from a 2000 Specialized Expedition with 1.95" tires. I thought the 26mm tire might be a problem...I found a certain comfort and feeling of safety from the wider tire. The 26mm on the Sequoia turned out to be no problem at all! I even got caught in a snow storn last week and rode 12 miles home in 1-2" of snow. The tires were adequate. These tires ( Specialized Turbo Pro with Kevlar bead) have a smooth ride and are very easy to get used to. I therefore agree that even if the Sequoia won't take larger than a 28mm, the 28mm should be large enough for most people. And I believe thats 28mm and enough room for fenders!

I'm just curious as to how the narrowness of the tire could be a cause for concern? Or how a wider tire could feel any more stable? I mean on pavement here, not in the dirt etc. My stability on a bicycle on the road has nothing to do with the width of the tires, at least as far as I'm aware. Things like black ice have the same slipperyness on a 20 mm as a 38 mm tire, that is to say no traction is no traction regardless of tire. I ride by balance, not tire width.

Hey, I talked myself into getting a Sequoia Expert too! Test rode it and fell in love! Did you other Sequoia riders find that the bike runs really small? I wound up with a M, thinking I would be on a S.

Originally posted by ChiliDog
Hey, I talked myself into getting a Sequoia Expert too! Test rode it and fell in love! Did you other Sequoia riders find that the bike runs really small? I wound up with a M, thinking I would be on a S.

I wonder if it seems to run small because the frame is set up for a more relaxed riding position. The top tube is not horizontal.

I am a somewhat small-framed man with a short inseam and as such my Sequoia is small-framed. I would think that it might be hard to make equivalent comparisons between the size and fit of two different styles of frames, much less the sizing from different manufacturers.

So, you talked yourself into the Sequoia Expert...but have you purchased it yet?

No, I am undecided between the S and the M frame. I test rode both earlier in the week and may be able to go back and ride them again later today as I am off work.

I am used to riding a 50cm traditional frame road bike and a 52cm compact geometry Allez.

My height is 5'4", inseam 29. On the S when I stood over the top tube, the stem was right against my belly. Once on the bike, in order to get the saddle high enough for proper leg positioning, my saddle was above the handlebars. My reach was negligible.
Stem was maxed up high. Felt like I was falling onto the bars.

On the M, standover was right on the top tube (same as Allez). Adjusting the seat height properly, the handlebar was a little above my saddle height. It felt comfortable and "upright" with the stem tilted up to its maximum height. Felt really relaxed and comfortable.

I want to go back and ride each size "in the drops". Shop I looked at seemed to think the M was proper. Another shop said the bikes ran "small" and that S would be "too small" for my measurements. It's an expensive investment, so I want to be sure.

Any of your thoughts on sizing up on this frame from your test riding experiences would be appreciated.

I am just shy of 5'4" and my inseam is close to but not fully 28".
I went with the smaller frame, but that is my experience. As the bike is a different geometry than I am used to, it was all new to me. My previous bike frame is a bit too tall for me. I purchased it at a LBS where I used to live, but as I look back on the experience, I think that they did not spend enough time on sizing me up as much as showing me the bike on the floor.

Despite their many many years of operation, the neighborhood had changed quite a bit, became run down. Management had changed and so did the quality of service. They unfortunately ceased operation.

I trust the judgment of the LBS where I purchased the Sequoia. The shop is named "Brand's", located in Wantagh, NY. They have been in business for many years, have a huge selection and a top-notch reputation.

Any way...I digress...
since the LBS has both frame sizes available and can make an immediate sale either way by fortunately offering you a choice of frame sizes, why don't you pick their brains. Maybe have them size both bikes for you and then offer you the pros and cons with either frame size.

Good luck!

This is a very reputable shop. I don't think they were trying to lean me either way. I think I need to go back and ride them some more. So what size DID you end up with?

After some further measuring and test riding, I went with the M.