flythebike
08-07-06, 10:04 AM
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=2244413&page=1
Steroirds may have cause his hip condition, according to this.
Steroirds may have cause his hip condition, according to this.
View Full Version : How about a "Floyd Landis in the Media" sticky?
HardyWeinberg
08-07-06, 10:47 AM
http://www.sfgate.com/chronicle/pictures/2006/08/04/080406-950x316-badreporter.gif
flythebike
08-07-06, 01:41 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/07/AR2006080700362.html
Landis: conspiracy theorist
Landis: conspiracy theorist
sweetjt
08-07-06, 02:30 PM
The hip surgery is the perfect excuse to go crawl under a rock in shame, which is exactly what he shoudl do. But if he needs attention he can always go on a pro wrestling tour with Tanya Harding.
Karlotta
08-07-06, 04:02 PM
Amber Landis appeared with Floyd on this morning's show. FYI.
Landis appeared on the morning talk shows with his wife, Amber, who voiced belief in his innocence and described him as a cyclist dedicated to his sport.
"He's a good man, he's hard-working. He's worked so, so hard for this," she said on ABC's "Good Morning America." "Winning the Tour de France has been his goal. It has come before everything. It's come before our family, before friends."
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/08/07/sports/BIKE.php
Landis appeared on the morning talk shows with his wife, Amber, who voiced belief in his innocence and described him as a cyclist dedicated to his sport.
"He's a good man, he's hard-working. He's worked so, so hard for this," she said on ABC's "Good Morning America." "Winning the Tour de France has been his goal. It has come before everything. It's come before our family, before friends."
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/08/07/sports/BIKE.php
Helmet Head
08-07-06, 04:12 PM
A wife standing by her doping cyclist husband! Hmm... seems like a deja vu...
hombredebicycle
08-07-06, 06:34 PM
that would be deja "VU" not vous by the way.
As to the unprofessional and reprehensible assclowns doctors who are commenting on the case without any contact or knowledge of Floyd I would refer them to the AMA ethics...about commenting on public figures' medical conditions and speculating out of their own holes.
his osteonecrosis is a result of his hip fracture, very common, very unfortunate.
We do not need piece of crap orthopedic surgeons from the Kentucky College of Medicine piling on FLoyd's problems by suggesting what every meathead in World's Gym has wondered..."Gee, I wonder if his steroid abuse caused osteonecrosis of the femoral head."
This is a complication of people on steroids for long periods of time at high dosages.
It is also a very frequent complication of hip fracture, and lets all recall Floyd had a very bad hip fracture, an injury many have not come back from.
Recall Beloki anyone?
So before piling on, lets take a breath and think about what Floyd has been through and that he is a person who deserves a little privacy and respect.
As to the unprofessional and reprehensible assclowns doctors who are commenting on the case without any contact or knowledge of Floyd I would refer them to the AMA ethics...about commenting on public figures' medical conditions and speculating out of their own holes.
his osteonecrosis is a result of his hip fracture, very common, very unfortunate.
We do not need piece of crap orthopedic surgeons from the Kentucky College of Medicine piling on FLoyd's problems by suggesting what every meathead in World's Gym has wondered..."Gee, I wonder if his steroid abuse caused osteonecrosis of the femoral head."
This is a complication of people on steroids for long periods of time at high dosages.
It is also a very frequent complication of hip fracture, and lets all recall Floyd had a very bad hip fracture, an injury many have not come back from.
Recall Beloki anyone?
So before piling on, lets take a breath and think about what Floyd has been through and that he is a person who deserves a little privacy and respect.
Walter
08-07-06, 07:52 PM
So before piling on, lets take a breath and think about what Floyd has been through and that he is a person who deserves a little privacy and respect.
One of the few intelligent statements lately in this thread. Bravo!
One point that Floyd is definitely right about is the inordinate and inappropriate publicity surrounding the tests. Even the UCI Pres. admitted they leaked so as to beat the lab's inevitable leaking. If this were an actual criminal trial the grounds for appeal of any conviction would be fertile.
FL may well be guilty. That's a conclusion that can only be reached by the USADA btw; not by the press, the UCI or even the TdF. Should the USADA reject Landis' explanation then and only then is he a "convicted doper."
That is not a defense of FL. It certainly appears that he doped. However the process is not complete and according to that process he's still given "the benefit of the doubt" (to quote the UCI) until a verdict is returned against him. It would be nice if the remainder of the process played out in the relative confidentiality that's supposed to surround it. It appears the USADA is willing to be more professional than the UCI and the French lab. Hopefully that'll stay that way.
"Assclown" :)
I love that term. So useful and so appropriate.
(edited for grammar)
One of the few intelligent statements lately in this thread. Bravo!
One point that Floyd is definitely right about is the inordinate and inappropriate publicity surrounding the tests. Even the UCI Pres. admitted they leaked so as to beat the lab's inevitable leaking. If this were an actual criminal trial the grounds for appeal of any conviction would be fertile.
FL may well be guilty. That's a conclusion that can only be reached by the USADA btw; not by the press, the UCI or even the TdF. Should the USADA reject Landis' explanation then and only then is he a "convicted doper."
That is not a defense of FL. It certainly appears that he doped. However the process is not complete and according to that process he's still given "the benefit of the doubt" (to quote the UCI) until a verdict is returned against him. It would be nice if the remainder of the process played out in the relative confidentiality that's supposed to surround it. It appears the USADA is willing to be more professional than the UCI and the French lab. Hopefully that'll stay that way.
"Assclown" :)
I love that term. So useful and so appropriate.
(edited for grammar)
Trekaholic
08-07-06, 09:49 PM
I still can't imagine coming from that life style to winning the TdF
I can't imagine coming from that life style and cheating to win. Ergo I think there's more to this story than simply "Floyd cheated, case closed."
Who was it that shot JFK, again? First person with the correct answer wins a free hyperlink to the Reuter's web site... oh wait, they're full of snot too....
What's this sport coming to -- pretty soon the French will be saying Bob Roll bet on cycling - maybe that explains all his last place finishes.
:o :(
I can't imagine coming from that life style and cheating to win. Ergo I think there's more to this story than simply "Floyd cheated, case closed."
Who was it that shot JFK, again? First person with the correct answer wins a free hyperlink to the Reuter's web site... oh wait, they're full of snot too....
What's this sport coming to -- pretty soon the French will be saying Bob Roll bet on cycling - maybe that explains all his last place finishes.
:o :(
Karlotta
08-08-06, 05:33 AM
So before piling on, lets take a breath and think about what Floyd has been through and that he is a person who deserves a little privacy and respect.
Mr. Landis announced his hip condition to the world in the New York Times and at a press conference at the Tour de France. The matter is in the public eye. His own doctor has commented on his health condition, and there is video on the web of his own doctor showing Mr. Landis' X-ray and MRI tests.
Should Mr. Landis be afforded privacy when lack thereof would harm his image and publicity when it helps his image?
Mr. Landis announced his hip condition to the world in the New York Times and at a press conference at the Tour de France. The matter is in the public eye. His own doctor has commented on his health condition, and there is video on the web of his own doctor showing Mr. Landis' X-ray and MRI tests.
Should Mr. Landis be afforded privacy when lack thereof would harm his image and publicity when it helps his image?
EURO
08-08-06, 07:22 AM
Landis wanted to become another big American sporting brand like Tiger Woods or Lance Armstrong. He put himself out there as a product. He deserves no privacy or respect.
bmike
08-08-06, 07:27 AM
Landis wanted to become another big American sporting brand like Tiger Woods or Lance Armstrong. He put himself out there as a product. He deserves no privacy or respect.
Wow.
Wow.
flythebike
08-08-06, 10:25 AM
Landis wanted to become another big American sporting brand like Tiger Woods or Lance Armstrong. He put himself out there as a product. He deserves no privacy or respect.
I thought that since you think all the riders dope, he would deserve respect like the others who dope, who I presume you respect? So why doesn't he deserve respect then? Care to elucidate? Or would your prefer to be outted as simple hater of all things USA? Especially succesfully people from the USA.
As to privacy, he is a public figure so he in entitled to only a limited amount of privacy. At least as much as the UCI's rules afford.
I thought that since you think all the riders dope, he would deserve respect like the others who dope, who I presume you respect? So why doesn't he deserve respect then? Care to elucidate? Or would your prefer to be outted as simple hater of all things USA? Especially succesfully people from the USA.
As to privacy, he is a public figure so he in entitled to only a limited amount of privacy. At least as much as the UCI's rules afford.
shakeNbake
08-08-06, 11:42 AM
Landis on the Adam Carolla show.
They tried to ambush him with a lie detector test, he said OK!!
BUUUTTT
Only if his lawyer greenlights it, he said.
So he didn't.
But after listening to him, it's hard for me NOT to root for him. Dammit, I just don't know!!!
They tried to ambush him with a lie detector test, he said OK!!
BUUUTTT
Only if his lawyer greenlights it, he said.
So he didn't.
But after listening to him, it's hard for me NOT to root for him. Dammit, I just don't know!!!
sweetjt
08-08-06, 12:01 PM
Gimme a break. No lawyer is going to allow his client to take a lie detector test. That's a total out for him.
flythebike
08-08-06, 12:53 PM
http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/?id=2006/woodland_garin
Cheating is nothing new in the Tour
Cheating is nothing new in the Tour
flythebike
08-08-06, 12:58 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/07/AR2006080700960.html
Hormones As Dope
How Testosterone Pumps Up Performance
Hormones As Dope
How Testosterone Pumps Up Performance
EURO
08-08-06, 01:28 PM
I thought that since you think all the riders dope, he would deserve respect like the others who dope, who I presume you respect?
Nope - he deserves as much respect as any doping rider who put themselves up as a bastion of health
http://floydlandisfoundation.org/index.html
And who sells their name as a product
http://www.saris.com/c-31-cycleops-clothing.aspx
Or would your prefer to be outted as simple hater of all things USA? Especially succesfully people from the USA.
Best friends are from the US. Sit opposite a guy from the US at work. Visited the US three times this year. It would be much simpler if I was 'US HATER' wouldn't it? My arguments are more complex than that.
As to privacy, he is a public figure so he in entitled to only a limited amount of privacy. At least as much as the UCI's rules afford.
Follow the thread and don't read my post out of context.
Nope - he deserves as much respect as any doping rider who put themselves up as a bastion of health
http://floydlandisfoundation.org/index.html
And who sells their name as a product
http://www.saris.com/c-31-cycleops-clothing.aspx
Or would your prefer to be outted as simple hater of all things USA? Especially succesfully people from the USA.
Best friends are from the US. Sit opposite a guy from the US at work. Visited the US three times this year. It would be much simpler if I was 'US HATER' wouldn't it? My arguments are more complex than that.
As to privacy, he is a public figure so he in entitled to only a limited amount of privacy. At least as much as the UCI's rules afford.
Follow the thread and don't read my post out of context.
waltergodefroot
08-08-06, 03:47 PM
.....
Sincitycycler
08-08-06, 04:14 PM
.....
You forgot pub darts and the ultimate Englishman's hobby, wearing women's underwear...:rolleyes: :D
You forgot pub darts and the ultimate Englishman's hobby, wearing women's underwear...:rolleyes: :D
hombredebicycle
08-08-06, 11:10 PM
I love Phil though, underwer and all.
How many times in one tour did he comment on those beautiful pumping legs of Lance Armstrong?
How many times in one tour did he comment on those beautiful pumping legs of Lance Armstrong?
hombredebicycle
08-08-06, 11:11 PM
Oh please, you've never lied to your mother?
I'm not saying Floyd is or isn't guilty but I imagine he has lied to his mother before this. I imagine we all have.
I have never lied to FLoyds mother and I resent your insinuating otherwise.:D
I'm not saying Floyd is or isn't guilty but I imagine he has lied to his mother before this. I imagine we all have.
I have never lied to FLoyds mother and I resent your insinuating otherwise.:D
flythebike
08-09-06, 07:47 AM
I have never lied to FLoyds mother and I resent your insinuating otherwise.:D
That will teach me to format sentences more carefully, won't it? :)
That will teach me to format sentences more carefully, won't it? :)
flythebike
08-09-06, 07:54 AM
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/aug06/aug09news
sweetjt
08-09-06, 06:48 PM
Youch! (from BBC):
Patrick Lefevere, the President of the International Association of Professional Cycling Teams, has threatened to sue disgraced Tour de France winner Floyd Landis. The Belgian manager of Quick Step has raised the idea of legal action to protect the image of cycling.
American rider Landis tested positive for unnatural levels of testosterone during the race which he won a fortnight ago. Despite both A and B samples returning positive results, the 30-year-old has categorically denied any allegations of doping.
On Tuesday Landis attacked the International Cycling Union and branded his positive drug test as "fatally flawed".
"We should take him to court for what he is now doing to cycling," said Lefevere to Sportwereld.be.
"Why not? Why not take the American approach of dealing with things and apply it here? As long as Landis continues to maintain that he knows nothing, this sort of scenario becomes more likely.
"I feel like throwing up when I hear him. Landis has turned the clock back 20 years."
Landis was sacked by his team Phonak after failing last week's B test. Despite the swift action taken by the Swiss team, however, Lefevere has called for their immediate expulsion from the ProTour.
Phonak are no strangers to doping scandals, the team having suffered ten such cases in the last three years. High profile offenders include 2000 Olympic time-trial champion Tyler Hamilton, 2006 Giro runner-up Jose Enrique Gutierrez and Colombian veteran Santiago Botero.
Lefevere said: "Look, one doping case per year is possible to explain, but ten in three years? Teams like that should be out of the ProTour.
"I had warned the Tour management before the start of the Tour. I'm certainly not a judge and the fate of Phonak is not yet sealed, but I would gladly like an explanation."
Patrick Lefevere, the President of the International Association of Professional Cycling Teams, has threatened to sue disgraced Tour de France winner Floyd Landis. The Belgian manager of Quick Step has raised the idea of legal action to protect the image of cycling.
American rider Landis tested positive for unnatural levels of testosterone during the race which he won a fortnight ago. Despite both A and B samples returning positive results, the 30-year-old has categorically denied any allegations of doping.
On Tuesday Landis attacked the International Cycling Union and branded his positive drug test as "fatally flawed".
"We should take him to court for what he is now doing to cycling," said Lefevere to Sportwereld.be.
"Why not? Why not take the American approach of dealing with things and apply it here? As long as Landis continues to maintain that he knows nothing, this sort of scenario becomes more likely.
"I feel like throwing up when I hear him. Landis has turned the clock back 20 years."
Landis was sacked by his team Phonak after failing last week's B test. Despite the swift action taken by the Swiss team, however, Lefevere has called for their immediate expulsion from the ProTour.
Phonak are no strangers to doping scandals, the team having suffered ten such cases in the last three years. High profile offenders include 2000 Olympic time-trial champion Tyler Hamilton, 2006 Giro runner-up Jose Enrique Gutierrez and Colombian veteran Santiago Botero.
Lefevere said: "Look, one doping case per year is possible to explain, but ten in three years? Teams like that should be out of the ProTour.
"I had warned the Tour management before the start of the Tour. I'm certainly not a judge and the fate of Phonak is not yet sealed, but I would gladly like an explanation."
Blue Order
08-09-06, 06:52 PM
Given the smear campaign against Landis before he's even had a hearing and been found in violation of the Anti-Doping Rules, LeFevre should be hoping he doesn't end up on the wrong end of a lawsuit.
hombredebicycle
08-09-06, 10:21 PM
Given the smear campaign against Landis before he's even had a hearing and been found in violation of the Anti-Doping Rules, LeFevre should be hoping he doesn't end up on the wrong end of a lawsuit.
I am sure he's much more comfortable with Johan Museeuw a convicted doper in Belgium for drug trafficking and serving a suspension in the team car as DS than Floyd Landis.
What a subhuman piece of crap Lefevre is to say something like that when Museeuw is one of the biggest dopers around and Lefevre probably gave him and VandenBroucke the shots himself.
I am sure he's much more comfortable with Johan Museeuw a convicted doper in Belgium for drug trafficking and serving a suspension in the team car as DS than Floyd Landis.
What a subhuman piece of crap Lefevre is to say something like that when Museeuw is one of the biggest dopers around and Lefevre probably gave him and VandenBroucke the shots himself.
davefarb
08-16-06, 02:02 PM
The only thing more obvious than Landis being a busted doper cheater is that the French are goatsuckers.
BloomBikeShop
08-18-06, 07:09 AM
http://coachlevi.com/blog/2006/08/18/just-a-coincidence/ :rolleyes:
Helmet Head
09-26-06, 12:31 PM
http://coachlevi.com/blog/2006/08/18/just-a-coincidence/ :rolleyes:
Then somehow a Spaniard (who at one point was down by like 30 minutes) places second overall in GC. I’m sure Spain was pumped about that, but they surely wanted that yellow jersey. If only they could start up a ruckus about Floyd taking extra testosterone… bam! Pereiro becomes the champion. Coincidence???
And did you ever think about this - Floyd made up about 11 minutes after bonking, but Pereiro was able to make up an almost 30 minute deficit earlier in the race! Hmm…
I really wonder if we are dealing with actual doping or a much bigger problem - sore losers and corrupt officials. So until they can prove that all these drug tests are unbiased and unflawed, I’m sticking with Floyd!
I'm sorry, but this argument is plain stupid.
If only they could start up a ruckus about Floyd taking extra testosterone… bam!
Isn't "bam!" leaving out a few details? Reminds me of a cartoon...
http://www.cottonexpressions.com/images/miraclel.jpg
And as far as comparing Pereiro's 30 minutes to Floyd's 11 minutes... that's ridiculous. This guy should know better. When Pereiro made up that time no one said "unbelievable" or expressed any kind of a surprise. It was a standard gain in time by a normal breakaway. People argued about whether the peloton should allow that to happen, but no one was surprised by anything that Pereiro did. After all, he was with a bunch of guys (or at least one - I forget), who were doing the same thing.
But during Floyd's breakaway... that was entirely different. I, for one, stood up from my chair and never sat down. I was jumping up and down for hours. It was unbelievable. The commentators couldn't believe it.
Anyone who muddles those two points loses credibility with me.
Then somehow a Spaniard (who at one point was down by like 30 minutes) places second overall in GC. I’m sure Spain was pumped about that, but they surely wanted that yellow jersey. If only they could start up a ruckus about Floyd taking extra testosterone… bam! Pereiro becomes the champion. Coincidence???
And did you ever think about this - Floyd made up about 11 minutes after bonking, but Pereiro was able to make up an almost 30 minute deficit earlier in the race! Hmm…
I really wonder if we are dealing with actual doping or a much bigger problem - sore losers and corrupt officials. So until they can prove that all these drug tests are unbiased and unflawed, I’m sticking with Floyd!
I'm sorry, but this argument is plain stupid.
If only they could start up a ruckus about Floyd taking extra testosterone… bam!
Isn't "bam!" leaving out a few details? Reminds me of a cartoon...
http://www.cottonexpressions.com/images/miraclel.jpg
And as far as comparing Pereiro's 30 minutes to Floyd's 11 minutes... that's ridiculous. This guy should know better. When Pereiro made up that time no one said "unbelievable" or expressed any kind of a surprise. It was a standard gain in time by a normal breakaway. People argued about whether the peloton should allow that to happen, but no one was surprised by anything that Pereiro did. After all, he was with a bunch of guys (or at least one - I forget), who were doing the same thing.
But during Floyd's breakaway... that was entirely different. I, for one, stood up from my chair and never sat down. I was jumping up and down for hours. It was unbelievable. The commentators couldn't believe it.
Anyone who muddles those two points loses credibility with me.
kenny!
09-26-06, 04:45 PM
[color=blue]00
But during Floyd's breakaway... that was entirely different. I, for one, stood up from my chair and never sat down. I was jumping up and down for hours. It was unbelievable. The commentators couldn't believe it.
But if you look at the numbers Floyd's break away and ride that day weren't superhuman or even close to it. He actually road faster on other days during the tour. What happened was Landis had good strategy and made use of his power meter so he could ride near his full potential without bonking again. But not only that, the other riders gave Floyd that 9 minutes by not challenging him. How many people did he pass who just watched him ride past? It wasn't some great feat by Landis that made up that time.
Yeah, it looked spectacular but really wasn't.
But during Floyd's breakaway... that was entirely different. I, for one, stood up from my chair and never sat down. I was jumping up and down for hours. It was unbelievable. The commentators couldn't believe it.
But if you look at the numbers Floyd's break away and ride that day weren't superhuman or even close to it. He actually road faster on other days during the tour. What happened was Landis had good strategy and made use of his power meter so he could ride near his full potential without bonking again. But not only that, the other riders gave Floyd that 9 minutes by not challenging him. How many people did he pass who just watched him ride past? It wasn't some great feat by Landis that made up that time.
Yeah, it looked spectacular but really wasn't.
Helmet Head
09-27-06, 02:17 AM
But if you look at the numbers Floyd's break away and ride that day weren't superhuman or even close to it. He actually road faster on other days during the tour. What happened was Landis had good strategy and made use of his power meter so he could ride near his full potential without bonking again. But not only that, the other riders gave Floyd that 9 minutes by not challenging him. How many people did he pass who just watched him ride past? It wasn't some great feat by Landis that made up that time.
Yeah, it looked spectacular but really wasn't.
That Floyd's spectacular ride was "normal" and nothing really spectacular or amazing is certainly part of the spin. Are you really buying it? This claim was coincidentally made only after Floyd was accused of cheating. Not a hint of it before the accusations were made. Hmm... More on that below.
But, my main point is that it's disingenuous for anyone who has the clue to know better to write something that implies there is something suspicious with Pereiro making up that 30 minutes. It's blatant throwing cr@p out there to see where it will stick, who will buy it... a cheap shot to give those who don't have a clue reason to believe in Floyd.
Those of us who do have a clue shouldn't stand for it.
As far as Floyd's ride goes, yeah, he and his publicity team have thrown a bunch of spin out there claiming how "normal" of a ride it was for him, but they conveniently forget to mention that what might be "normal" during a training ride is not necessarily "normal" during the 3rd week of the Tour. Besides, he can tweak or even flat out lie about his power meter results. But most revealing is what the other pro riders said on the day of the event:
Stuart O'Grady: " But wow that ride of Landis! I’ve never seen a ride like that. It’s beyond words - it was awesome. I was feeling good and in the break we were doing 58 km/h [edit - 36 MPH] on the flat and he caught us. I mean that was something that I haven’t ever seen before."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/riders/2006/diaries/stuey/?id=stuey0617
Cadel Evans: "When Floyd went, I just thought 'what the hell is he doing?'," the Davitamon-Lotto racer said. "It tactically didn't seem like a sensible thing to do, but I didn't know he had the legs like that... nobody did! He went so fast from the start, he rode the whole peloton off his wheels! Nobody could follow."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jul06/jul22news
Patrick Sinkewitz: I just thought that he must have had a motor hidden somewhere!" the 2004 Deutschland Tour winner said. "Usually, when you're on somebody's wheel, you can spare some energy - but I just couldn't yesterday. I was constantly in the red. The other riders couldn't follow him, either. He was just extremely fast." ... "Maybe they would have raced the first climb faster, but then there wouldn't have been any riders left to hold that pace afterwards," explained Sinkewitz. "That wouldn't have made a difference."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jul06/jul22news
Chris Horner: "It was epic!," he summed it up. "It was just legendary. Everybody was chasing yesterday. People have said 'T-Mobile should have worked sooner' - but no one could have worked any sooner! We were going as fast as we possibly could! And if we would have been any faster on the climb, there would have been no T-Mobile guys left!
"The only place T-Mobile could have done any work is when they did: through the valley, when they made up some time on Floyd. That was the only place you could go fast. The T-Mobile guys were stuffed just like anyone else. The pace the Caisse d'Epargnes [edit - the team of Oscar Pereiro, maillot jaune ] set up in the climb was the fastest we could go."
Horner did evoke one last eventuality to counter Landis' move, but discarded it right away: "One possibility would have been for the Top 10 GC guys to all work together at a 100 percent, and that's it," he said. "But that has never happened in the Tour, and it's never happened in any other race I've done before - and it never will. It was an epic scenario, which I've never seen in my entire career!"
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jul06/jul22news
Hmmm....
Yeah, it looked spectacular but really wasn't.
That Floyd's spectacular ride was "normal" and nothing really spectacular or amazing is certainly part of the spin. Are you really buying it? This claim was coincidentally made only after Floyd was accused of cheating. Not a hint of it before the accusations were made. Hmm... More on that below.
But, my main point is that it's disingenuous for anyone who has the clue to know better to write something that implies there is something suspicious with Pereiro making up that 30 minutes. It's blatant throwing cr@p out there to see where it will stick, who will buy it... a cheap shot to give those who don't have a clue reason to believe in Floyd.
Those of us who do have a clue shouldn't stand for it.
As far as Floyd's ride goes, yeah, he and his publicity team have thrown a bunch of spin out there claiming how "normal" of a ride it was for him, but they conveniently forget to mention that what might be "normal" during a training ride is not necessarily "normal" during the 3rd week of the Tour. Besides, he can tweak or even flat out lie about his power meter results. But most revealing is what the other pro riders said on the day of the event:
Stuart O'Grady: " But wow that ride of Landis! I’ve never seen a ride like that. It’s beyond words - it was awesome. I was feeling good and in the break we were doing 58 km/h [edit - 36 MPH] on the flat and he caught us. I mean that was something that I haven’t ever seen before."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/riders/2006/diaries/stuey/?id=stuey0617
Cadel Evans: "When Floyd went, I just thought 'what the hell is he doing?'," the Davitamon-Lotto racer said. "It tactically didn't seem like a sensible thing to do, but I didn't know he had the legs like that... nobody did! He went so fast from the start, he rode the whole peloton off his wheels! Nobody could follow."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jul06/jul22news
Patrick Sinkewitz: I just thought that he must have had a motor hidden somewhere!" the 2004 Deutschland Tour winner said. "Usually, when you're on somebody's wheel, you can spare some energy - but I just couldn't yesterday. I was constantly in the red. The other riders couldn't follow him, either. He was just extremely fast." ... "Maybe they would have raced the first climb faster, but then there wouldn't have been any riders left to hold that pace afterwards," explained Sinkewitz. "That wouldn't have made a difference."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jul06/jul22news
Chris Horner: "It was epic!," he summed it up. "It was just legendary. Everybody was chasing yesterday. People have said 'T-Mobile should have worked sooner' - but no one could have worked any sooner! We were going as fast as we possibly could! And if we would have been any faster on the climb, there would have been no T-Mobile guys left!
"The only place T-Mobile could have done any work is when they did: through the valley, when they made up some time on Floyd. That was the only place you could go fast. The T-Mobile guys were stuffed just like anyone else. The pace the Caisse d'Epargnes [edit - the team of Oscar Pereiro, maillot jaune ] set up in the climb was the fastest we could go."
Horner did evoke one last eventuality to counter Landis' move, but discarded it right away: "One possibility would have been for the Top 10 GC guys to all work together at a 100 percent, and that's it," he said. "But that has never happened in the Tour, and it's never happened in any other race I've done before - and it never will. It was an epic scenario, which I've never seen in my entire career!"
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jul06/jul22news
Hmmm....
ggusta
09-27-06, 02:50 PM
But if you look at the numbers Floyd's break away and ride that day weren't superhuman or even close to it. He actually road faster on other days during the tour. What happened was Landis had good strategy and made use of his power meter so he could ride near his full potential without bonking again. But not only that, the other riders gave Floyd that 9 minutes by not challenging him. How many people did he pass who just watched him ride past? It wasn't some great feat by Landis that made up that time.
Yeah, it looked spectacular but really wasn't.
I hear this all the time, and I am not being sarcastic when I ask you, what does constitute a great break away ride? (Ok, just a bit of irony... So it doesn't count as great unless every other guy on the course is going ballsout to chase you down and can't? Should time trialing be the only race that measures a great ride? I confess profound ignorance about the subtleties of racing, but hell, I think I know enough to see a great achievement when I see one, and assuming for the moment that it was unaided by PED's, just like all the other guy's that were chasing him, right, then I was pretty impressed by it?
Yeah, it looked spectacular but really wasn't.
I hear this all the time, and I am not being sarcastic when I ask you, what does constitute a great break away ride? (Ok, just a bit of irony... So it doesn't count as great unless every other guy on the course is going ballsout to chase you down and can't? Should time trialing be the only race that measures a great ride? I confess profound ignorance about the subtleties of racing, but hell, I think I know enough to see a great achievement when I see one, and assuming for the moment that it was unaided by PED's, just like all the other guy's that were chasing him, right, then I was pretty impressed by it?
ggusta
09-27-06, 03:40 PM
As far as Floyd's ride goes, yeah, he and his publicity team have thrown a bunch of spin out there claiming how "normal" of a ride it was for him, but they conveniently forget to mention that what might be "normal" during a training ride is not necessarily "normal" during the 3rd week of the Tour. Besides, he can tweak or even flat out lie about his power meter results. But most revealing is what the other pro riders said on the day of the event:
Hmmm....
Wow! Like...totally diggin' the raw paranoia.... I used to think the drama of watching sporting events was to watch someone or some team do something that had never been done before, turns out all along I was wrong, I should only use the unusual, the spectacular and the memorable as evidence of some sort of hank panky or nefarious activity. And the poster presents compliments from his competitors as exhibit A... :roflmao:
Incredible.... :rolleyes:
And to ice the cake, anyone who thinks it is anything other than an obviously ped fueled achievement is disparaged!! :roflmao:
Hmmm....
Wow! Like...totally diggin' the raw paranoia.... I used to think the drama of watching sporting events was to watch someone or some team do something that had never been done before, turns out all along I was wrong, I should only use the unusual, the spectacular and the memorable as evidence of some sort of hank panky or nefarious activity. And the poster presents compliments from his competitors as exhibit A... :roflmao:
Incredible.... :rolleyes:
And to ice the cake, anyone who thinks it is anything other than an obviously ped fueled achievement is disparaged!! :roflmao:
Talon
09-27-06, 04:50 PM
I think he cheated, but not with drugs. I think he took advantage of the rule that allows solo breakaway riders to have their team car alongside for waterbottle handups. You know how they hand up bottles from the car, right? You get a little push each time. How many bottle did Floyd take? 78? He only ingested about half of them anyway. That's 78 times he got a little help. That'll make a difference. All Floyd had to do is go 110% up the first climb to get away. While other riders were looking at him and thinking,'he'll never be able to maitain that pace the whole way, so I'll drop back.', Floyd wasn't planning to hold that pace the whole way. He just needed to get away so he could get the team car alongside and take advantage of the bottle handups.
I think the French were a little pissed about this since there's no rule against it and retaliated by altering the drug tests since they control the lab. I wonder if next year they'll introduce a new rule limiting the number of bottle handups?
BTW don't take this post too seriously, I'm offering it half in jest. :)
I think the French were a little pissed about this since there's no rule against it and retaliated by altering the drug tests since they control the lab. I wonder if next year they'll introduce a new rule limiting the number of bottle handups?
BTW don't take this post too seriously, I'm offering it half in jest. :)
Helmet Head
09-27-06, 05:33 PM
Wow! Like...totally diggin' the raw paranoia.... I used to think the drama of watching sporting events was to watch someone or some team do something that had never been done before, turns out all along I was wrong, I should only use the unusual, the spectacular and the memorable as evidence of some sort of hank panky or nefarious activity. And the poster presents compliments from his competitors as exhibit A... :roflmao:
Incredible.... :rolleyes:
And to ice the cake, anyone who thinks it is anything other than an obviously ped fueled achievement is disparaged!! :roflmao:
You're not reading what I wrote.
I never said his ride was evidence of him doping.
I said their attempts to downplay the remarkableness of his ride is disingenuous. What that implies to you is up to you.
All I'm saying is, when they resort to ridiculous statements like this:
Floyd made up about 11 minutes after bonking, but Pereiro was able to make up an almost 30 minute deficit earlier in the race! Hmm…
I get suspicious. Hmm... indeed.
Incredible.... :rolleyes:
And to ice the cake, anyone who thinks it is anything other than an obviously ped fueled achievement is disparaged!! :roflmao:
You're not reading what I wrote.
I never said his ride was evidence of him doping.
I said their attempts to downplay the remarkableness of his ride is disingenuous. What that implies to you is up to you.
All I'm saying is, when they resort to ridiculous statements like this:
Floyd made up about 11 minutes after bonking, but Pereiro was able to make up an almost 30 minute deficit earlier in the race! Hmm…
I get suspicious. Hmm... indeed.
squeakywheel
09-27-06, 07:59 PM
...
I should only use the unusual, the spectacular and the memorable as evidence of some sort of hank panky or nefarious activity.
...
Congrats. I think you're catching on now. Welcome to the new millenium. Sports are so uninteresting these days.
I should only use the unusual, the spectacular and the memorable as evidence of some sort of hank panky or nefarious activity.
...
Congrats. I think you're catching on now. Welcome to the new millenium. Sports are so uninteresting these days.
davefarb
12-28-06, 01:06 PM
Go against God and see the vile results...
Hezz
12-31-06, 06:53 PM
I think that Floyd was the strongest rider this year. I think he is innocent. I think he overtrained for years and for that reason didn't win as often in the past. He has been tested to have a higher VOmax than Lance. So he has the genes. Perhaps should have been winning more than he did in the past.
Some riders respond better to shorter but more intense training. I think that Floyd is this type of a rider. Five hours training at higher intensity is what he had been doing for the past year and as a result he was winning more. This compared to the eight or nine hour days of the past.
I think he was trying to be a little too careful to protect his overall lead and this style of racing eventually back fired for him. He was being smart but a little too much like Armstrong. Also, while capable of very hard workouts he may be less tolerant of high temperatures so keeping cool allowed him to put in a very hard effort on the day of his proclaimed miracle ride.
He had blown his lead by riding too conservatively which worked for only so long.
The Tour de France organizers are trying to destroy him because they are being bad sports. What, losing eight years in a row is tough for them when this race is the most important thing for them.
The circumstantial and historical evidence against the lab is stronger than against Landis. If he was really doping he would show a trend of failed tests and from various labs.
Some riders respond better to shorter but more intense training. I think that Floyd is this type of a rider. Five hours training at higher intensity is what he had been doing for the past year and as a result he was winning more. This compared to the eight or nine hour days of the past.
I think he was trying to be a little too careful to protect his overall lead and this style of racing eventually back fired for him. He was being smart but a little too much like Armstrong. Also, while capable of very hard workouts he may be less tolerant of high temperatures so keeping cool allowed him to put in a very hard effort on the day of his proclaimed miracle ride.
He had blown his lead by riding too conservatively which worked for only so long.
The Tour de France organizers are trying to destroy him because they are being bad sports. What, losing eight years in a row is tough for them when this race is the most important thing for them.
The circumstantial and historical evidence against the lab is stronger than against Landis. If he was really doping he would show a trend of failed tests and from various labs.
Deej
01-07-07, 06:54 AM
Interview with Floyd Landis. On the CBC news program "The National" a couple nights ago night, they did a piece on cycling and drugs that included interviews with Floyd Landis and Frankie Andreau. This is Frankie's only interview about the Lance "hospital incident." Apparently he turned down 60 Minutes but said yes to the CBC.
The videos and several other stories seen at Cycle of denial:
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/landis/
The videos and several other stories seen at Cycle of denial:
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/landis/
Blaireau
04-25-07, 07:35 PM
Interview with Floyd Landis. On the CBC news program "The National" a couple nights ago night, they did a piece on cycling and drugs that included interviews with Floyd Landis and Frankie Andreau. This is Frankie's only interview about the Lance "hospital incident." Apparently he turned down 60 Minutes but said yes to the CBC.
The videos and several other stories seen at Cycle of denial:
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/landis/
I love the part when he asserts that the whole affair did not damage cycling. It comes shinning through like the sun in the Sahara at noon that the guy is really nothing more than a pathological liar. Can someone shut this guy up, for the love of cycling!
The videos and several other stories seen at Cycle of denial:
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/landis/
I love the part when he asserts that the whole affair did not damage cycling. It comes shinning through like the sun in the Sahara at noon that the guy is really nothing more than a pathological liar. Can someone shut this guy up, for the love of cycling!
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