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This morning, my buddy and I were on Stevens Canyon Road headed for Redwood Gulch Road to Highway 9 and Skyline, when we were passed by two cyclists. As we were climbing, one of them turned back and said in a French accent, "This is a nice road. We are visiting from France. Congratulations on Floyd Landis!" We said thank you and wished him a good ride as he zoomed away on his Time.
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This morning, my buddy and I were on Stevens Canyon Road headed for Redwood Gulch Road to Highway 9 and Skyline, when we were passed by two cyclists. As we were climbing, one of them turned back and said in a French accent, "This is a nice road. We are visiting from France. Congratulations on Floyd Landis!" We said thank you and wished him a good ride as he zoomed away on his Time.
You should anwered in spanglish "I was rooting for Oscar Pereiro, you fool.", lol
JK, nice story...
You should anwered in spanglish "I was rooting for Oscar Pereiro, you fool.", lol
JK, nice story...
lol
I have a feeling that the France will be more friendly to Landis than Armstrong.
Gee, I wonder why:rolleyes:
When I've been in France I've found the people to be friendly and helpful. But, maybe that has as much to do with me as it does with them.
I don't understand the poor rep the French get. Sure, Parisians, maybe, but it's outright racism, IMO, to French-bash the way so many Americans do. Anyhow, even the Parisians are OK if you speak French well enough, IME. :D
Anyhow, I think the French, who in their history of cycling fandom, laud great suffering will appreciate Landis' hip story and how he won this Tour.
I don't understand the poor rep the French get. Sure, Parisians, maybe, but it's outright racism, IMO, to French-bash the way so many Americans do. Anyhow, even the Parisians are OK if you speak French well enough, IME. :D
Anyhow, I think the French, who in their history of cycling fandom, laud great suffering will appreciate Landis' hip story and how he won this Tour.
If he hadn't bonked and then had a comeback, I think there would have been grousing that the win was missing something. I suspect that's what fans like to see - someone come out and face adversity and then come back and blow away the competition.
Lance used to dominate too, but he never had a bad day quite like Floyd. He dehydrated on one time trial I recall, but didn't lose anywhere nearly as much time.
I don't understand the poor rep the French get. Sure, Parisians, maybe, but it's outright racism, IMO, to French-bash the way so many Americans do. Anyhow, even the Parisians are OK if you speak French well enough, IME. :D
When we first arrived in Paris, my wife misprounced an address to a cab driver in French. He then tossed our luggage out of his trunk (and I mean tossed, not placed) screamed at my wife and left. If I wasn't so stunned at what just happened I would have cleaned his clock.
That was really the only bad experience I had in France, except for a McDonalds clerk screaming at me for taking a picture of thier menu (you know, 'Royale with Cheese') but it did leave a bad impression.
That was really the only bad experience I had in France, except for a McDonalds clerk screaming at me for taking a picture of thier menu (you know, 'Royale with Cheese') but it did leave a bad impression.WTF were you doing at a McD's in France, fer Cris'sake?!?!? Just going to McDonald's is enough of a bad experience... even in the States.
WTF were you doing at a McD's in France, fer Cris'sake?!?!? Just going to McDonald's is enough of a bad experience... even in the States.
The only time I go into a McDs is to use the toilet. I then walk out without buying anything.:D
I have a feeling that the France will be more friendly to Landis than Armstrong.
Gee, I wonder why:rolleyes:
They were friendly when he won his first. He was a hero.
Ah, how time changes things....
When we first arrived in Paris, my wife misprounced an address to a cab driver in French. He then tossed our luggage out of his trunk (and I mean tossed, not placed) screamed at my wife and left. If I wasn't so stunned at what just happened I would have cleaned his clock.
That was really the only bad experience I had in France, except for a McDonalds clerk screaming at me for taking a picture of thier menu (you know, 'Royale with Cheese') but it did leave a bad impression.
Maybe your wife accidentally called his wife a wh0re or something.
If Paris taxi drivers are like everywhere else they're probably not French anyway.
Maybe your wife accidentally called his wife a wh0re or something.
If Paris taxi drivers are like everywhere else they're probably not French anyway.
Algerian?
Algerian?
Who knows. I've never caught a cab in Paris, but all the cab drivers in Den Haag were Afghans, and in most other cities I've visited the taxi drivers have been fairly recent immigrants (London Black cabs are an exception).
The rudest person I've ever met in Paris was an American.
Az
The rudest person I've ever met in Paris was an American.
Az
I've met some pretty rude people (of which I can be one), but Americans only stand out because they talk so loudly.
I'd always heard Parisiens were rude, but I was a tad more sympathetic to them after I went there and discovered every second person is a tourist and they're all constantly asking for directions in English. I'm sure it's easy to occasionally forget they are spending money keeping the city solvent, and lose it when you're asked the 30th time where the Eiffel Tower is (hint: you can see it from everywhere in the city)
When I've been in France I've found the people to be friendly and helpful. But, maybe that has as much to do with me as it does with them.
I have traveled through Europe and have noticed this everywhere.
Never lived in Paris... did live in Montpellier and Strasbourg for several years. The French were no more nor less rude than the residents of other places where I've lived. There were cultural differences of course, but it wasn't about rudeness. When Americans go to France, they see, for the most part, urban folks, who live a faster paced life with the same stressers that you'd find in a large American city. Folks in large American cities also sometimes get a rap for being rude.
I'd always heard Parisiens were rude, but I was a tad more sympathetic to them after I went there and discovered every second person is a tourist and they're all constantly asking for directions in English. I'm sure it's easy to occasionally forget they are spending money keeping the city solvent, and lose it when you're asked the 30th time where the Eiffel Tower is (hint: you can see it from everywhere in the city)
It is even more enlightening when you look at a French book on language and see so many familiar words and realize that often we are simply throwing their language back at them, only very badly pronounced. The word "direction" for instance is exactly the same but pronouned differently. Symmpathetic is similar but with a "que" at the end. "sympathique" Solvent is close... "dissolvant."
Of course the arrangement of the sentences is a bit different also... as are the use of words with male and female roots... thus la and le can be quite confusing.
I spent three weeks in Paris last year, and the only experience I had that even approached rude behavior was when a businessman wouldn't tell my friends and I what time it was. Everybody else was extraordinarily kind and warm-hearted, in a very honest and genuine way - and I don't even speak French, except for a few phrases.
They are:
Bonjour, madame.
Bonjour, monsieur.
Un ______, sil vous plait.
Merci beaucoup.
Je ne parlais pas Francais.
Parlez vous Anglais?
That is literally all I knew, and all anybody needs to know. Most Parisians speak some English, and even though they don't like using it, they will if they like you.
And they like people who make an effort. Americans heads would explode if people started talking to them in foreign languages.
I spent three weeks in Paris last year, and the only experience I had that even approached rude behavior was when a businessman wouldn't tell my friends and I what time it was. Everybody else was extraordinarily kind and warm-hearted, in a very honest and genuine way - and I don't even speak French, except for a few phrases.
They are:
Bonjour, madame.
Bonjour, monsieur.
Un ______, sil vous plait.
Merci beaucoup.
Je ne parlais pas Francais.
Parlez vous Anglais?
That is literally all I knew, and all anybody needs to know. Most Parisians speak some English, and even though they don't like using it, they will if they like you.
And they like people who make an effort. Americans heads would explode if people started talking to them in foreign languages.
Tend to agree with you. I spend two weeks in the south of France last year and had a great time. I was courteous and always made a point to greet the shopkeepers. My french is very poor, but I do speak a bit.
I found the food, wine, cheese and bread worth the trip alone. We drove from Paris to Bandol and even quite enjoyed the drive, the roads being well built and well marked. I was rather surprised how much of the countryside is devoted to agriculture. I was also quite pleased at the great mid day meals we had everwhere... Anyone chosing McD's over French food should get their taste buds examined. (although admittedly we do prepare "french fries" far far better... )
And the women... quelle vue. Cherchez les femmes!
I ignore Americans who pass off nasty comments about the French.At first I asked when were you there? Without fail the reply was oh, We would never go there, the french like us only for the money we bring and spend, or we have friends who went and didn't enjoy for this or that reason, stupid responses from stupid people
I went, my first ever long bike trip in '04, the 60th anniversery of the D-Day invasions, the French gov't invited and paid the expenses of hundreds of the old old survivors of that day, plus their families,to see those old gentlemen proudly showing children and grandkids what they had to do, was something I will never forget. And to see many, many French old people AND the young walking and talking with the Aericans was great. Time after time I was stopped and asked if my father was among the troops those months, he wasn't but they all, WITHOU FAIL thanked me as an American for the help AMERICA has so generously given over 2 wars to help them
The French were our first international allies, without the help, miliary and financial we may not have our independence to day
Every French person I spoke with that year was hoping Armstrong would win that year and when he did there were no drerogatory remarks that I ever heard
On this forum the jealousy seems to be endless and petty
Wonder how many of the detractors have in thier lives ever achieved ANYTHING similar to his accomplishments...I rather doubt it
And the best French fries are in Belguim and ketchup is never used there........mayo only
The French were our first international allies, without the help, miliary and financial we may not have our independence to day
Yeah, like how Tcheky Karyo helped Mel Gibson in The Patriot!
And the women... quelle vue. Cherchez les femmes!
Carole Bouquet and Catherine Deneuve are classic French beauties.
http://independentsources.com/wp-content/uploads/melissa1.jpg
Melissa Theuriau (http://independentsources.com/2005/11/10/melissa-theuriau/) is a reason to watch French newscasts.
I ignore Americans who pass off nasty comments about the French.At first I asked when were you there? Without fail the reply was oh, We would never go there, the french like us only for the money we bring and spend, or we have friends who went and didn't enjoy for this or that reason, stupid responses from stupid people
I went, my first ever long bike trip in '04, the 60th anniversery of the D-Day invasions, the French gov't invited and paid the expenses of hundreds of the old old survivors of that day, plus their families,to see those old gentlemen proudly showing children and grandkids what they had to do, was something I will never forget. And to see many, many French old people AND the young walking and talking with the Aericans was great. Time after time I was stopped and asked if my father was among the troops those months, he wasn't but they all, WITHOU FAIL thanked me as an American for the help AMERICA has so generously given over 2 wars to help them
The French were our first international allies, without the help, miliary and financial we may not have our independence to day
Every French person I spoke with that year was hoping Armstrong would win that year and when he did there were no drerogatory remarks that I ever heard
On this forum the jealousy seems to be endless and petty
Wonder how many of the detractors have in thier lives ever achieved ANYTHING similar to his accomplishments...I rather doubt it
And the best French fries are in Belguim and ketchup is never used there........mayo only
Well said! I have often said many of these same things to my friends who have never been outside of the US. I have not yet been to France but would surely love to go someday. I find it appalling so many Americans are so quick to deride other countries and cultures, yet are so ready to fight when the same is done to us. I love how so many people I know pick on foreigners who have trouble with English, yet can't even differentiate simple English grammatical terms as your and you're, would of and would have, then and than...I could go on and on. I won't even get into the deplorable way so many of us speak the language ourselves.
Cheers,
Brian
And those fries and mayo kick *****!!!
And those fries and mayo kick *****!!!
Pomme frites.
Pomme frites.
Yes Indeed!!! and I had them in Germany...and they KICKED *****!!!!
I wasn't quite sure I remembered how to spell them...and I didn't:D .
In the states, I despise French Fries. Here we crave them . They are actually cut from real potatos.
What slays me. They see so much US media. They know the US media is full of crap. But, they also know about the stories such as the 'freedom fries' incidents. And the dumping of French wine.
You'd think they would resent us. Not our experience. They have been nothing but welcoming and helpful. Ever single one .
We tell them . What's the difference. Maybe the wine was wasted, but those fools still paid for it's importation.
I just credit such foolishness to a media that causes such irrational behavior. They seem to understand.
In the states, I despise French Fries. Here we crave them . They are actually cut from real potatos.
In-N-Out (http://www.in-n-out.com/) cuts fries from real potatoes. The average IQ and ability to understand English of an In-N-Out employee is also a lot higher than at other fast food chains - a big reason I go there since my order won't get screwed up.
WTF were you doing at a McD's in France, fer Cris'sake?!?!? Just going to McDonald's is enough of a bad experience... even in the States.
Back in 1990, I rode the Masters World Cup in St. Johann, Austria. I screwed up the final kilomeers and finished around 33rd or so, so I just coasted past the finish line and kept rolling beyond St. Johann, warming down for about five kilometers to the next town, Kitzbuhel. There I stopped at the McD's, leaned the bike against the rail, went in and bought a beer, and came back out to relax in the warm sun.
I really wish North Americans were cultured enough that they could sell beer at any McD's...
Another story: Here in Canada, the two official languages are English & French. Since BC is 99% English, the public school system offers French Immersion all the way thru elementary school, and most Canadian-born parents are anxious to get their kids in, because the alternative is a classroom where most of the kids are from immigrant families and the teacher is spending lots of time teaching them just to speak English. But I digress. My daughter went thru French immersion, so her French is quite good, and she loves to travel. She went with a group on a European tour, and they happened to stop at the McD's on the Champs d'Elysees. So she chatted up the server, who was very polite and friendly, and then after giving her order, she turned to her friend and told her just to say "moi aussi" (me too). So the server cheerfully got them their orders and as they were leaving, the next person in line tried to give his order in English, and the server instantly became rude and arrogant.
- L.
In the states, I despise French Fries. Here we crave them . They are actually cut from real potatos.
What slays me. They see so much US media. They know the US media is full of crap. But, they also know about the stories such as the 'freedom fries' incidents. And the dumping of French wine.
You'd think they would resent us. Not our experience. They have been nothing but welcoming and helpful. Ever single one .
We tell them . What's the difference. Maybe the wine was wasted, but those fools still paid for it's importation.
I just credit such foolishness to a media that causes such irrational behavior. They seem to understand.
When I visited the south of France last year we stayed with some friends in a house... and other French friends came and visited. Got into some very nice conversations about language and culture. One question that was asked a few times was "But don't American's hate us... yet everyone we talk to seems to love France."
Of course the reply was easy... the fools that profess "hating" France are not likely to visit France, so the only Americans they (the French folks) had met were indeed the ones that did not have animosities toward the French.
It is indeed strange that people can claim to hate this place or that place when they have never even gone beyond their own local borders to see how the rest of the world operates.
I hear this quite often from folks about Mexico, which is a short hop from San Diego, that "they would never go," because "it is such an awful place... " yet indeed, how would they know?
I spent three weeks in Paris last year, and the only experience I had that even approached rude behavior was when a businessman wouldn't tell my friends and I what time it was. Everybody else was extraordinarily kind and warm-hearted, in a very honest and genuine way - and I don't even speak French, except for a few phrases.
They are:
Bonjour, madame.
Bonjour, monsieur.
Un ______, sil vous plait.
Merci beaucoup.
Je ne parlais pas Francais.
Parlez vous Anglais?
That is literally all I knew, and all anybody needs to know. Most Parisians speak some English, and even though they don't like using it, they will if they like you.
And they like people who make an effort. Americans heads would explode if people started talking to them in foreign languages.
You haven't been to the WalMart in Lawrenceville, Georgia. Nobody speaks English.
7rider Please Explain The Comment Are You Taliking About History Hollywood Style??
Why would anyone want to eat at McD's? French food is usually superb, especially in small restaurants.
Agree you haven't eaten 'good' Frech fries until you've eaten them from a 'fritte' stand on the marketplace in Brugge!
Many Americans do not even try to learn part of any language of any country they visit . . . 'Hey, speak English!'
Had one comment from someone visiting Mexico: "Them Mexs are stupid . . . they don't speak English!' My reply: "How's your Spanish?'"All I got was an incredulous look!
There are rude people all over the world . . . let's not be one of them!!!
French people, in general, are very friendly and as nice as most people in the world. Same is true in US and in all countries.
Regarding the Lance and Floyd opinions there won't be any contest, Floyd will be the favorite. In general French people don't like cocky, full of themselves persons. Lance has never been known to be very modest or humble. On the other hand Floyd seems to perfectly defined the people favorite mold.
It reminds me how French people treated cycling champions of the past. When I started to follow the Tour it was the Anquetil-Poulidor era. Anquetil was the winner of most races but he never won the hearts of France. To this day Poulidor is, by far, the favorite French cyclist; even now, decades after he stopped racing. Hinault won 5 Tours and fared the same fate as Anquetil, same for Merckx.
What is common to Lance, Hinault, and Merckx in their racing days? The same cockiness, the same self-assurance of being the best in the business, the same tendency to crash their rivals with uncanny easiness. In general regular people don't like this kind of people, in cycling and in other sports as well (Bjorn Borg in tennis is a good example), and in all sort of lifes.
It's the eternal David vs. Goliath story. Floyd is still like David, he is human, has ups and downs, gets crashed one day but his heart is so big that he gets the final victory. How he handles fame and success will dictate his public image.
The only rude Frenchmen I have encountered have been employees of le chemin de fer in the train stations. Well, they weren't exactly rude, either. Just frustrated with my lack of comprehension of their language.
Whenever I travel overseas for pleasure, I make an attempt to learn at least of few phrases in the native language: "How much is that?", "Where is _______?", "Do you have ______", "I would like [some] ______?", "Where is ______?". "Thank you", "Please", "The check, please", "nn beers, please." In France, as elsewhere, you gain some respect for at least trying to say a few words in their language.
I remember having a conversation, in french, about the availability of rooms at a hotel in Amboise on the Loire. After some discussion with the lady behind the desk, I turned to my companion, who knew no French, and started to explain about the rooms. The lady of the hotel, in perfect English, started correcting me about the number and type of beds in each of the rooms. My friend was flabbergasted. The lady explained that since I was conversing in French, and at least appeared to understand, she was perfectly happy to speak in French. However, her English was much better than my French.
Seventh Rider. I think the other difference in pomme fritte. Not only real potatos, but the way they are cooked. Here, mostly in sunflower or olive oil. They come out really moist. Also, not deep fried.
Genec. The thing about French thinking they are hated by Americans. So maybe , as you say, a lot of AMericans stay out of France because they hate the French.
Not really. MOst Americans just don't travel. I hope.
But, so the Americans who come here are the only ones who are fair to the French. ? How do you explain that, when many say - they'd like to visit the US. ? Are they to be assaulted because they speak French.?
My explaination. Our redicilious media whips up a minority , who do not represent anywhere near a majority of Americans. ( Heah- I am helping to boost Tourism to America. Particularily California. )
I hope that is the case. I hate for them to think 33% of Americans will not visit France because the French are hated ! I tell them otherwise.
One difficult explanation. US news coverage is pretty good here. They hear of the ocassional attacks on US cyslists. I have been an assaulted US cyclist. They know an assaliant on Lance is now in a Texas prison. as an example.
New Friends ask, 'Am I safe to bring my bike to the US.' They have a 'wild west' fear of life in the US to start with. And, 'Why are you here. Is not California cycling incredible.?' NOt sure what to tell them? I have to be truthful on that one.
I just found a very interesting article somewhat related to the topic here. I suggest it would be good for all Americans to correct ( if nothing else, maybe help out our trade deficit.) by clearing up our hopefully, misunderstood international image. The article from Reuters,
"Anti-Americanism prompts push for Citizen Diplomacy.'
The American people do not deserve this. Not the first time this has been the case. Americans were maligned in the 50's. I think it unfair. I do not agree with it either. Not my expereince, so far.
But, I hate to think individual Americans suffer because of poorly perceived US policies. I hope we all want to do our part to correct this possible stereotype against us as people.
Don't blame the French. Note the World Cup officials asked the US flag not be displayed in Germany.
Some of you may not care. That only hurts yourself. Does not have to be that way.
What do you think of this articles' suggestions.
Link below.
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=domesticNews&storyID=2006-07-26T125433Z_01_N25370039_RTRUKOC_0_US-USA-IMAGE.xml&WTmodLoc=Home-C5-domesticNews-3
By Bernd Debusmann, Special Correspondent
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - With anti-American sentiment at unprecedented levels around the world, Americans worried about their country's low standing are pushing a grassroots campaign to change foreign perceptions of the United States "one handshake at a time."
The idea is to turn millions of Americans into "citizen diplomats" who use personal meetings with foreigners to counter the ugly image of the United States shown in a series of international public opinion polls. They show widespread negative attitudes not only toward U.S. policies but also toward the American people and, increasingly, even American products.
To stem the relentless decline of America's international standing -- a dramatic change from the almost universal sympathy for the country immediately after the September 11 attacks on New York and Washington --leaders of more than 30 civic organizations formed a "Coalition for Citizen Diplomacy" two years ago.
Seventh Rider. I think the other difference in pomme fritte. Not only real potatos, but the way they are cooked. Here, mostly in sunflower or olive oil. They come out really moist. Also, not deep fried.
Genec. The thing about French thinking they are hated by Americans. So maybe , as you say, a lot of AMericans stay out of France because they hate the French.
Not really. MOst Americans just don't travel. I hope.
But, so the Americans who come here are the only ones who are fair to the French. ? How do you explain that, when many say - they'd like to visit the US. ? Are they to be assaulted because they speak French.?
My explaination. Our redicilious media whips up a minority , who do not represent anywhere near a majority of Americans. ( Heah- I am helping to boost Tourism to America. Particularily California. )
I hope that is the case. I hate for them to think 33% of Americans will not visit France because the French are hated ! I tell them otherwise.
One difficult explanation. US news coverage is pretty good here. They hear of the ocassional attacks on US cyslists. I have been an assaulted US cyclist. They know an assaliant on Lance is now in a Texas prison. as an example.
New Friends ask, 'Am I safe to bring my bike to the US.' They have a 'wild west' fear of life in the US to start with. And, 'Why are you here. Is not California cycling incredible.?' NOt sure what to tell them? I have to be truthful on that one.
You are right about most Americans not traveling... back in my college days in the '90s I came across an interesting statistic... something like only 15% of the population has passports. Only about 20% of the population has a college degree. Says something about the overall population of the US I think... sadly.
The McDs on the Champs in Paris has to be one of the busiest in the world
So I can understand the short tempers of the kids who work there.Almost without fail most euros can handle french when ordering, and do.So simple, just look up at the menu board and at least try to pronounce the items, The kids are always patient inspite of the crowds. I stopped there the Sunday in '04 when the TdeF was ending a total madhouse but with a dozen languages being spoken on the customer side and mostly English n French on the other no one lost a temper.. Yeh I stop at McDs when travelin, hot hot afternnons the only place to get something cold. le milkshake!!
If I could handle giving up my li'l dog I'd be traveling or living over there now
You are right about most Americans not traveling... back in my college days in the '90s I came across an interesting statistic... something like only 15% of the population has passports. Only about 20% of the population has a college degree. Says something about the overall population of the US I think... sadly.
Seeing that even now you can travel all of North America without a passport, that's hardly a fair comparison. You can travel the same distance in the US as you could in Europe, but without the need to show your passport 5 or 6 times. Obviously it's also much cheaper to go from Spain to France to Germany than from Omaha to Paris.
Sure the culture doesn't change quite as much, but the difference from Maine to Michigan to Colorado to California is quite different in and of itself. I don't think you can blame Americans for not being as well-traveled as Europeans who come from smaller countries. Besides, if I travel in the US, my travel dollars help out fellow Americans. Sure, that might be a little provincial, but I don't think that's wrong or bad either.
And conversely, one of the cable news shows went to France in the past year to get opinions of Americans. For every ignorant American who disliked the French, there was an equal in France disliking Americans. Bottom line, every country has more than it's share of jackasses.
It is even more enlightening when you look at a French book on language and see so many familiar words and realize that often we are simply throwing their language back at them, only very badly pronounced. The word "direction" for instance is exactly the same but pronouned differently. Symmpathetic is similar but with a "que" at the end. "sympathique" Solvent is close... "dissolvant."
Of course the arrangement of the sentences is a bit different also... as are the use of words with male and female roots... thus la and le can be quite confusing.not to be mean but your logic is a little what we call "retarded" in english.
I lived in France for 3 1/2 years and in the former french colony of Niger as a member of the Peace Corps for 2 years. I agree with the numerous posts here that the quality of your international experience will have more to do with the respect that you have for people in general. Inaccurate and ugly stereotypes (fill in the blank with the country of your choice) are used by people who don't have the desire or patience to learn about other cultures. Personally, when I'm reading these forums, I cringe when I see negative, ugly terms such as frog, wops, etc used to describe the citizens of another country. Peace is fragile. Individuals have the power to build a stronger world just by being open to the possibility that despite being from different countries with varying customs and languages, we have the ability to see the many things that we have in common as human beings.
Someone said, travel overseas is too expensive to experience. Often we found flights from LA to London only like $300 more. Winter rates , they can be a steal.
We have seen 47 states. Time to see some additional countries while still on this planet.
Travel is one of the greatest gift's granted to us. Little is as mind expanding.
Nothing against a vacation in Des Moines. I've been there. But, the hotels of Des Moines are far more expensive than the average b and b in the French country side. And the cycling , manifique.
If American's traveled more, there'd be hope they loose some of their provincialness.
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