Commuting - Are scooters allowed in the bike lane in CA?

Last week, I saw a girl on a scooter in the bike lane, presumably there because the cars were piled dozens of rows deep during rush hour. She was traveling slower than 20 mph, below my own cruising speed. But because of the size of the scooter, I couldn't pass, until we hit the red light.

I told her she couldn't be in the lane. Was I right? Do scooters/mopeds have access to bike lanes?

Where do you live?

By scooter do you mean like a Vespa or one of those ghey motorized board thingy?

Anyways in California you need a Motorcycle license to ride a scooter. That doesn't answer your question, but just to point that a scooter is considered a motorized vehicle.

My scooter is a fully registered motorcycle and must be treated as such. No bike lane use permitted.

Yeah, like a Vespa or Honda moped. I don't think these require licenses in California, though I may be wrong -- they travel less than 30 mph max.

I found this section in the CAVC:

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21209.htm

The point of contention, I guess would be 3b. What the heck is that supposed to mean?

Holy crap, I learned something new.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21229.htm


Operation of Motorized Scooters: Bicycle Lanes


21229. (a) Whenever a class II bicycle lane has been established on a roadway, any person operating a motorized scooter upon the roadway shall ride within the bicycle lane, except that the person may move out of the lane under any of the following situations:

(1) When overtaking and passing another vehicle or pedestrian within the lane or when about to enter the lane if the overtaking and passing cannot be done safely within the lane.

(2) When preparing for a left turn, the operator shall stop and dismount as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or right edge of the roadway and complete the turn by crossing the roadway on foot, subject to the restrictions placed on pedestrians in Chapter 5 (commencing with Section 21950).

(3) When reasonably necessary to leave the bicycle lane to avoid debris or other hazardous conditions.

(4) When approaching a place where a right turn is authorized.

(b) No person operating a motorized scooter shall leave a bicycle lane until the movement can be made with reasonable safety and then only after giving an appropriate signal in the manner provided in Chapter 6 (commencing with Section 22100) in the event that any vehicle may be affected by the movement.


And when we go to 407.5 to find out what the definition of a "motorized scooter" is ...


407.5. (a) A "motorized scooter" is any two-wheeled device that has handlebars, has a floorboard that is designed to be stood upon when riding, and is powered by an electric motor. This device may also have a driver seat that does not interfere with the ability of the rider to stand and ride and may also be designed to be powered by human propulsion. For purposes of this section, an electric personal assistive mobility device, as defined in Section 313, a motorcycle, as defined in Section 400, a motor-driven cycle, as defined in Section 405, or a motorized bicycle or moped, as defined in Section 406, is not a motorized scooter.


So they're saying that motorized scooters are REQUIRED to use the bike lane, if one exists. Wow. Didn't expect that.

If you can pedal it to make it go, it's a bicycle for those purposes.


Yeah, like a Vespa or Honda moped. I don't think these require licenses in California, though I may be wrong -- they travel less than 30 mph max.

I found this section in the CAVC:

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21209.htm

The point of contention, I guess would be 3b. What the heck is that supposed to mean?

So they're saying that motorized scooters are REQUIRED to use the bike lane, if one exists. Wow. Didn't expect that.

Hmm, very interesting. So, I may have been wrong. However, looks like it only applies to ELECTRIC scooters. Gas-driven scooters are not "motorized scooters"

but then ...


21207.5. Notwithstanding Sections 21207 and 23127 of this code, or any other provision of law, no motorized bicycle may be operated on a bicycle path or trail, bikeway, bicycle lane established pursuant to Section 21207, equestrian trail, or hiking or recreational trail, unless it is within or adjacent to a roadway or unless the local authority or the governing body of a public agency having jurisdiction over such path or trail permits, by ordinance, such operation.

Which sounds to me like MUPs and off-street trails are off-limits to motorized bicycles (and scooters?). Only on-street bike lanes are available for motor scooters. Forced, actually. Interesting.

Also interesting: the CVC implies that bikes do not have to ride in the bike lane IF THEY'RE GOING FASTER THAN OTHER TRAFFIC. There is no such exception for motor scooters. Because cyclists are badass speedy HHCMF's. :)


The relevant wording is here: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21208.htm

Whenever a bicycle lane has been established on a roadway pursuant to Section 21207, any person operating a bicycle upon the roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at that time shall ride within the bicycle lane, except that the person may move out of the lane under any of the following situations:

Wow, I didn't know any of those before.

Useful thread!

So I guess the question is:

What are:
"motorized bicycle"
"motorized scooter"
"motorcycle"
"bicycle"
"motorized moped"
"motor-driven cycle"

Any more? ;)

This is really interesting. I thought that I remembered that, you need a motorcycle license if the machine is powered by a motor over 50cc (which it turns out is wrong). The following are instructive:


Definition of a Motorcycle
400. (a) A "motorcycle" is any motor vehicle having a seat or saddle for the use of the rider, designed to travel on not more than three wheels in contact with the ground, and weighing less than 1,500 pounds.
(b) A motor vehicle that has four wheels in contact with the ground, two of which are a functional part of a sidecar, is a motorcycle if the vehicle otherwise comes within the definition of subdivision (a).
(c) A motor vehicle that is electrically powered, has a maximum speed of 45 miles per hour, and weighs less than 2,500 pounds, is a motorcycle if the vehicle otherwise comes within the definition of subdivision (a).
(d) A farm tractor is not a motorcycle. (e) A motor vehicle that has an enclosed seating area for the driver and passenger, and is used by local public agencies for the enforcement of parking control provisions, is not a motorcycle.
(z) The fact that (d) or (e) needed to be clarified is hereby officially noted as frightening.

http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/pocketbikes.html

What if my pocket bike's engine is less then 50cc's? I've heard that they are not required to be registered and are street legal.

This is incorrect information. There is nothing in the vehicle code that allows a motor-driven cycle to be operated on the highway that is less than 50cc's. Any motor-driven cycle less than 150cc's is required to be registered, meet the equipment standards of a motorcycle, and the operator must have an M1 driver license.

And one more, regarding what is a motorized scooter:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov///pubs/vctop/d01/vc407_5.htm

407.5. (a) A "motorized scooter" is any two-wheeled device that has handlebars, has a floorboard that is designed to be stood upon when riding, and is powered by an electric motor. This device may also have a driver seat that does not interfere with the ability of the rider to stand and ride and may also be designed to be powered by human propulsion. For purposes of this section, an electric personal assistive mobility device, as defined in Section 313, a motorcycle, as defined in Section 400, a motor-driven cycle, as defined in Section 405, or a motorized bicycle or moped, as defined in Section 406, is not a motorized scooter.

(b) A device meeting the definition in subdivision (a) that is powered by a source other than electrical power is also a motorized scooter.

In some weird way, it sounds like a motorized scooter is a motorcycle?? Though a motorcycle is not a motorized scooter. My head's spinning!

Yeah, the term "bike lane" is rather wrong... it should be: "narrow alternative vehicle moving at less than the speed of other traffic lane." But since the lanes are so narrow, they couldn't get the stencils to fit.

In some weird way, it sounds like a motorized scooter is a motorcycle?? Though a motorcycle is not a motorized scooter. My head's spinning!

FWIW: The definition does not seem to pertain to a Vespa-type of vehicle--which is designed for a seated operator, and not electric powered, as noted by worker4youth--but rather describes a Segway (which has a platform to stand on while operating the vehicle; speeds up to 12-20 mph depending upon model and components) or a "scooter" such as is advertised for people with mobility limitations.

I think this conclusion is strengthened by reference to passing a pedestrian in the lane; it wouldn't be safe in any circumstance for a higher speed vehicle (e.g. Vespa, up to 45 mph or so) sharing a lane with a ped.

FWIW, any motorized bike with an electric motor whose motor does not exceed 750 watt and whose top speed does not exceed 20mph unassisted is considered a "bicycle" and can therefore use a bike lane. Anything more than that can be considered a "motorized scooter", a "motorized bicycle(moped)", or a motor cycle. It's confusing, I know.

When they talk about "motorized scooter" it sounds like they mean a kick scooter (e.g., remember that Razor craze a couple of years ago?) with a motor attached.

I haven't ridden a Vespa, but the floorboard is definitely NOT meant to be stood on. Unless they have another definition, I think Vespa-scooters would count as motorcycles.