Professional Cycling For the Fans - Would they take away the TdF win?

Well at least it appears that way.
He wins a Crit on Tuesday, the announcment comes out that some "high placed rider" failed a test for testosterone, he then no shows at a Wednesday event. He also no shows at a Thursday event. Neither event was notified of his withdrawing. The only word is from his teams riders who say he went to see his doctor.
The guy sure seems like he is guilty to me. He is exhibiting all the signs of a guilty person. Sudden change in habits and personality, removing himself and those close to him from public scrutiny, next we will hear from his attorney about unsubstaniated claims.
If he is proved to be the guilty one, this will be the death blow to many of the cycling fans world wide. And if its not, it should be.

I think your argument may prove too much. Assuming its not a positive test for suspension purposes until the B sample comes back (an assumption I'm not sure about) it would be stupid for Landis to withdraw from the crits if he were the postive A sample. If you intended to contest the positive, the rational behavior is business as usual, and hope like hell the B sample comes back negative, or they botch the process somehow. Then, by procedure your positive A is never publically disclosed, and it all blows over.

Because people will draw the inference that you're making is precisely the reason you don't withdraw if it is in fact you that had the positive A sample.

Landis's hip is messed up-that's why he withdrew. He's no good to race and his winning le Tour was a feat that requires strength and will that almost no one posesses. Maybe I'm blind, but I gotta believe.

He just won the most grueling competition in pro sports with a bum hip. I think he's entitled to miss a crit or two. That and he has an appointment with Leno tomorrow.

Jeez. :rolleyes:

appearence fees for post TdF races are around 60,000 Euros. So its a big paycheck he's passing up, but then again, Floyd never seemed to be racing for the money anyways.

I've heard it was not testo. but a stimluant of some sort, and someone "high up" in the GC. I have also heard its "the worst possible scenario"

All the Major Countries Ferderations have said they were not contacted, yet the UCI claims to have contacted the riders federation, so someone is lying, as usual.

This sucks.

http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=2341

Well at least it appears that way.
He wins a Crit on Tuesday, the announcment comes out that some "high placed rider" failed a test for testosterone, he then no shows at a Wednesday event. He also no shows at a Thursday event. Neither event was notified of his withdrawing. The only word is from his teams riders who say he went to see his doctor.
The guy sure seems like he is guilty to me. He is exhibiting all the signs of a guilty person. Sudden change in habits and personality, removing himself and those close to him from public scrutiny, next we will hear from his attorney about unsubstaniated claims.
If he is proved to be the guilty one, this will be the death blow to many of the cycling fans world wide. And if its not, it should be.

I hope you are wrong. When could we expect this inquiry to wrap up?

You're hardly the first to speculate about it.

Anyway, it kind of doesn't add up; doesn't make sense that he'd pull out of races if he thought he was going to get caught as merlin said. The hip explanation makes some sense, as does the fact that he's slated to appear on Jay Leno. Also the USA Cycling federation has denied being contacted by the UCI; the initial news story said the rider's national federation had been contacted (see http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jul06/jul27news2).

It's certainly possible it is Floyd. But I kinda think it's not, at least not in this case. Who knows, maybe he was doping and just avoided detection, though -- that's *always* possible. "Not getting caught" is not the same as "not cheating"...likely that half of the ProTour peloton is, and just not getting caught.

He just won the most grueling competition in pro sports with a bum hip. I think he's entitled to miss a crit or two. That and he has an appointment with Leno tomorrow.

Jeez. :rolleyes:

yes I agree.But you have to admit its not like him to not show up or give a reason for missing an event. If their is one thing I have admired about the guy, it is his straight up honest behavoir, and he all of a sudden is acting differently, which is one thing guilty people do.
I personally hope it is not him! I really like the guy and up to now think he is the most likable and real person in cycling. Seems like the kind off guy that would be fun to hang out with.

I don't know anything about this site or the accuracy of this quote but I found it interesting. Smoothie, you seem to follow this stuff, have you seen this quote before?

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As five-time Tour champion Jacques Anquetil said in response to all the handwringing, "You'd have to be an imbecile or a hypocrite to imagine that a professional cyclist who rides 235 days a year can hold himself together without stimulants."
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source: http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20060724&s=diarist072406

Wow...so absolutely NO facts whatsoever, yet you are hanging him high.

Nice.

yes I agree.But you have to admit its not like him to not show up or give a reason for missing an event. If their is one thing I have admired about the guy, it is his straight up honest behavoir, and he all of a sudden is acting differently, which is one thing guilty people do.
I personally hope it is not him! I really like the guy and up to now think he is the most likable and real person in cycling. Seems like the kind off guy that would be fun to hang out with.

You're hearing the grumblings of a disgruntled race organizer. There are potentially hundreds of reasons he didn't show. His people have already said it's due to his hip.

I'm a Phloyd Phan myself and really wish this cat hadn't been let out of the bag until all of the facts could be released.

:)

:)

Didn't you learn your lesson on being so quick to judge during the tour, you dufus??

Once again...I hope you are wrong...so I can laugh some more...

Wow...so absolutely NO facts whatsoever, yet you are hanging him high.

Nice.

I do have facts. The changes in behavoir and the lack of response from the associated parties. I dont want it to be him, but the evidence in right now sure starts to point his direction.

Ahem,

Looks like it was Landis:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jul06/jul27news3

By the way, all you who have so quickly jumped on me for bringing this up, swallow your pride and go to velonews/cyclingnews.
Any appoligies? huh anybody? Buehler......Buehler.

I have also heard its "the worst possible scenario"

I heard (read) this as well; both articles I've read quote Pat McQuaid on the Italian Tuttobici website, anyone have the URL for that site? I'm not familiar with it and could not locate it (ok maybe I'm the dope!).

Ahem,

Looks like it was Landis:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jul06/jul27news3

ugggh!

What are "endocrinological examinations"?

aight...so what I don't understand is how a rider as smart as Floyd appears to be would take a banned substance, knowing full well that winners of stages are automatically tested, and then ride the stage of his life on 17. It doesn't make sense to commit career suicide like that.

By the way, all you who have so quickly jumped on me for bringing this up, swallow your pride and go to velonews/cyclingnews.
Any appoligies? huh anybody? Buehler......Buehler.



Boy, sure is silent in here.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/5221122.stm


They are all at it aren't they? It is a bigger circus than boxing.

Friggin Cuss!

ugggh!

What are "endocrinological examinations"?

Examination of your endocrine system, part of which is the organs that produce and regulate your "sex" hormones, testosterone etc.

aight...so what I don't understand is how a rider as smart as Floyd appears to be would take a banned substance, knowing full well that winners of stages are automatically tested, and then ride the stage of his life on 17. It doesn't make sense to commit career suicide like that.

Because he was desperate, and humiliated. And because he was probably assured that the method of doping, rather than the substance itself, would make it undetectable. And because he's not a scientist, but a rider.

Could it be random error during analysis of the sample? Could someone have unusually high levels of testosterone following exceptionally strenous exercise? Just wondering.

The forum is wide open. 4 or 5 threads started regarding Floyd Landis. This place is hopping.

164 members in TDF forum

441 in the Road Cycling forum

UCI did not contact USA Cycling about positive test
Associated Press

AIGLE, Switzerland -- While the cyclist who tested positive for doping at the Tour de France won't be identified until backup tests are complete, it does not appear to be any member of USA Cycling -- including champion Floyd Landis.

The International Cycling Union said Wednesday that an unidentified cyclist turned in a positive doping test during the Tour, widening the scandal that gripped this year's race before it began.

His name, team and nationality won't be released until the testing process is completed, including the analysis of a backup sample.

But the sport's governing body did say the rider's team and national federation were notified, as well as national and world anti-doping authorities. USA Cycling has not been contacted by UCI, spokesman Andy Lee said.

U.S. Anti-Doping Agency spokeswoman Carla O'Connell said that group had no comment.

Landis won the Tour de France on Sunday, keeping the title in U.S. hands for the eighth straight year. Lance Armstrong, long dogged by doping whispers and reports that he has vehemently denied, won the previous seven.

Tour spokesman Mathieu Desplats expressed surprise at the result, but would only say that race officials would await final results before taking action.

The UCI said in a statement that it received the report Wednesday from a Paris laboratory "stating an adverse analytical finding following an anti-doping test carried out at the Tour de France 2006."

Officials from the lab couldn't be reached for comment Wednesday night.

On the eve of the Tour's start, nine riders -- including pre-race favorites Jan Ullrich and Ivan Basso -- were ousted, implicated in a Spanish doping investigation.

The names of Ullrich and Basso turned up on a list of 56 cyclists who allegedly had contact with Spanish doctor Eufemiano Fuentes, who's at the center of the Spanish doping probe.

Athletes allegedly went to Fuentes' Madrid clinic to have blood extracted for doping or to collect performance-enhancing drugs. Nearly 100 bags of frozen blood and equipment for treating blood were found at the clinic, along with documents on doping procedures performed on cyclists.

Boy, sure is silent in here.

Hush! We're reading.....;)

I really have to wonder if it's possible if this is a false positive or maybe it was a naturally high level that occured. I don't know squat about PED testing or what is normal, so all I can do is go on faith that he didn't dope.

I also have to wonder that if his recovery was assisted with PED's, was Floyd that dumb that he thought he would get away with it? Or was it a "What the hell, I have nothing to lose" shot?

Either way, this really sucks. :mad:

aight...so what I don't understand is how a rider as smart as Floyd appears to be would take a banned substance, knowing full well that winners of stages are automatically tested, and then ride the stage of his life on 17. It doesn't make sense to commit career suicide like that.
They are all doping, all of the time. They know how to do it to avoid the positives, but it's a close call to avoid them. Essentially, Floyd's doctor probably ****ed up.

Boy, sure is silent in here.

I can't speak for everyone, but I don't spend my entire time on message forums waiting for results. It may take awhile for people to respond.

That being said...*****. I'm bummed. What a total, complete kick in the balls for cycling.

Way to go, Floyd. Way to go.

By the way, all you who have so quickly jumped on me for bringing this up, swallow your pride and go to velonews/cyclingnews.
Any appoligies? huh anybody? Buehler......Buehler.

I didn't respond to your original post as I didn't see it, but I would have. And I would have said that your logic is fallacious. And I still say that. You were saying that he looks guilty so he must be guilty. That's a poor argument. If he is found to be guilty then he's guilty. And then after this comes out you gloat, and when nobody takes the bait, you complain that nobody is responding. Using your logic, you look like a fool, so...

and another:

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/tdf2006/news/story?id=2531225

I should really be working.

This would explain his miracle comeback and amazing ride.

Ya Floyd is guilty as hell just like those doper bastards on Astana Wurth! Oh ya they were cleared of all charges when the dust settled after being excluded from the Tour (not to mention poor Vino).....ummmm...huh....maybe we should wait till an actual name is announced or better yet till a B sample conforms the first analysis???

Shame on any of you who are ready to even tentatively point the finger at a professional athelete based on the info we have so far. If you are willing to start speculating on who is guilty of a doping violation at this point then you clearly don't have any respect for these riders at all. That disgusts me.

If you put your faith in human beings, they will let you down. Whether Floyd Landis returns a positive B test or not, I'll still have my faith in the only thing it is worth putting in.

I didn't respond to your original post as I didn't see it, but I would have. And I would have said that your logic is fallacious. And I still say that. You were saying that he looks guilty so he must be guilty. That's a poor argument. If he is found to be guilty then he's guilty. And then after this comes out you gloat, and when nobody takes the bait, you complain that nobody is responding. Using your logic, you look like a fool, so...

Well at least my logic is based on crimanal bahavior patterns and the likely hood of changes in said behavior to point to potential guilty parties. Anyone who understands crimanal forensics would come to the same conclusion.
Ask far as me being a fool, you dont know me well enough to jump to that conclusion although, Einstien, Gallaleo and Bush were thought to be idiots but only one was proven to be.
Need a hint wich one?

I didn't respond to your original post as I didn't see it, but I would have. And I would have said that your logic is fallacious. And I still say that. You were saying that he looks guilty so he must be guilty. That's a poor argument. If he is found to be guilty then he's guilty. And then after this comes out you gloat, and when nobody takes the bait, you complain that nobody is responding. Using your logic, you look like a fool, so...

Well at least my logic is based on crimanal bahavior patterns and the likely hood of changes in said behavior to point to potential guilty parties. Anyone who understands crimanal forensics would come to the same conclusion.
Ask far as me being a fool, you dont know me well enough to jump to that conclusion although, Einstien, Gallaleo and Bush were thought to be idiots but only one was proven to be.
Need a hint which one?

I won't apologize to the OP, who said, "you heard it here first", which was completely wrong. People were speculating it was Landis the moment the story broke yesterday that someone had a positive test. Actually people have been speculating about it the moment he crossed the finish line on Stage 17 (I know I was).

At any rate: doesn't look good for Floyd. The press release says "both the management and rider were surprised by the result" which sounds like they're going to deny it.

From ESPN.com:

LONDON -- Tour de France champion Floyd Landis tested positive for high levels of testosterone during the race, his Phonak team said Thursday on its Web site.

Phonak said Landis would ask for an analysis of his backup "B" sample "to prove either that this result is coming from a natural process or that this is resulting from a mistake."

The statement came a day after the UCI, cycling's world governing body, said an unidentified rider had failed a drug test during the Tour.

The Swiss-based Phonak team said it was notified by the UCI on Wednesday that Landis' sample showed "an unusual level of testosterone/epitestosterone" when he was tested after stage 17 of the race last Thursday.

Landis made a remarkable comeback in that Alpine stage, racing far ahead of the field for a solo win that moved him from 11th to third in the overall standings. He regained the leader's yellow jersey two days later.

"The team management and the rider were both totally surprised of this physiological result," the Phonak statement said.

Phonak said Landis would ask for an analysis of his backup "B" sample "to prove either that this result is coming from a natural process or that this is resulting from a mistake."

Landis has been suspended by his team pending the results. If the second sample confirms the initial finding, he will be fired from the team, Phonak said.

Landis failed to show up for a one-day race in Denmark on Thursday, a day after missing a scheduled event in the Netherlands.

Dutch news agency ANP quoted his teammate Koos Moerenhout as saying that Landis had pain from his hip problem and had gone to see his doctor in Germany.

He plans to have hip replacement surgery this fall to ease pain in the arthritic joint still aching from a 2003 crash during a training ride.

"We were told by the other two riders that he couldn't join because he was traveling with team manager [John] Lelangue to his doctor in Germany," event organizer Theo van der Westerlaken said. "That's all we know."

Landis did take part in a criterium race Tuesday in Stiphout, Netherlands, winning the event.

Landis won the Tour de France on Sunday, keeping the title in U.S. hands for the eighth straight year after Lance Armstrong's record seven victories.

On the eve of the Tour's start, nine riders -- including pre-race favorites Jan Ullrich and Ivan Basso -- were ousted, implicated in a Spanish doping investigation.

The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.

Ya Floyd is guilty as hell just like those doper bastards on Astana Wurth! Oh ya they were cleared of all charges when the dust settled after being excluded from the Tour (not to mention poor Vino).....ummmm...huh....maybe we should wait till an actual name is announced or better yet till a B sample conforms the first analysis???
None of them were subject to a dope test. The cleared riders were removed from the Tour because the team was implicated, despite the fact there was no evidence of wrongdoing. That's a long way from a positive A test for Testosterone duing the Tour.

Ya Floyd is guilty as hell just like those doper bastards on Astana Wurth! Oh ya they were cleared of all charges when the dust settled after being excluded from the Tour (not to mention poor Vino).....ummmm...huh....maybe we should wait till an actual name is announced or better yet till a B sample conforms the first analysis???

Shame on any of you who are ready to even tentatively point the finger at a professional athelete based on the info we have so far. If you are willing to start speculating on who is guilty of a doping violation at this point then you clearly don't have any respect for these riders at all. That disgusts me.
The actual name WAS announced:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jul06/jul27news3

And this article has been linked in this thread before.

Okay now you can talk about Floyd...http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/10591.0.html

Keep in mind there is a small thing called a B sample before he is a doper.

I suppose it is possible that after getting his butt kicked, he just got really really pissed off and produced a lot of testosterone. I'm no scientist.

Dude, you're a bit slow.

The actual name WAS announced:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jul06/jul27news3

And this article has been linked in this thread before.

Rincewind8 the article (like many Velonews acrticles) gets updated as the day goes on. Floyd was not named (in fact the article earlier said he was not the one) when everyone was getting down on Floyd.

I never said Floyd was innocent all I said leave it alone until something offical gets announced AND we have not had a doping violation until the B sample is tested.

As much as we all love this sport, it is clear that, no matter the outcome of this situation, that it will be increasingly difficult for cycling to gain any respect in the sports world. While I have been a fan for many year (20 or so), my enthusiasm has been tempered by all of this nonsense. the UCI, WADA all of the teams and riders need to be held accountable and finally CLEAN THIS MESS UP. I am beginning to think that if a few careers are ruined in the process...oh well....and that is sa shame.

AP-Landis-Doping URGENT

LONDON (AP) - The Phonak cycling team says it has been notified of a positive doping test by Tour de France winner Floyd Landis.

(Copyright 2006 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

AP-NY-07-27-06 1017EDT

--------------------------------------------------------------


BC-CYC--Landis-Doping, 1st Ld-Writethru,0254 URGENT Team says Landis tested positive for high levels of testosterone Eds: UPDATES with details, team statement. Moving on general news and sports services.

LONDON (AP) - Tour de France champion Floyd Landis tested positive for high levels of testosterone during the race, his Phonak team said Thursday on its Web site.

The statement came a day after the UCI, cycling's world governing body, said an unidentified rider had failed a drug test during the Tour.

The Swiss-based Phonak team said it was notified by the UCI on Wednesday that Landis' sample showed "an unusual level of testosterone/epitestosterone" when he was tested after stage 17 of the race last Thursday.

Landis made a remarkable comeback in that Alpine stage, racing far ahead of the field for a solo win that moved him from 11th to third in the overall standings. He regained the leader's yellow jersey two days later.

"The team management and the rider were both totally surprised of this physiological result," the Phonak statement said.

Phonak said Landis would ask for an analysis of his backup "B" sample "to prove either that this result is coming from a natural process or that this is resulting from a mistake."

Landis has been suspended by his team pending the results. If the second sample confirms the initial finding, he will be fired from the team, Phonak said.

And you're a bit slow too.

Evidnetly this kind of scientific analysis is complicated and not black and white:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10732948&dopt=Abstract

Hey look everyone! It's an ass!

Look buddy, just thought I'd add some interesting stuff here... helps to look at all the info, you know? Maybe it's been posted already, yeah, I know, but this is from the original source.

Don't be a jerk.